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MacBook Pro Refresh Seeing Only Minor Delays Due to Intel Problems?

Bad, bad, press if Apple uses non fixed chip.

Just imagine the PR nightmare if the media ran with, "Apple uses flawed Intel chips". Bam. Perception is reality. No way in hell will Apple do that after antenna gate.
 
Yebubbleman said:
Sorry if I seem confrontational on here. Definitely not my intention, though optical drive arguments naturally annoy me.

I could probably run most of the software I need on a white MacBook, were it not for the lack of the FireWire port, for DV editing, but otherwise, sure I could certainly burn everything on a MacBook were everything I needed to burn on the hard drive of one. I'd opt for at least a 13" Pro as it does have a FireWire port and I AM opting for a 15" MacBook Pro in the future because video stuff isn't the only way I'll be taxing the discrete GPU, I'll also be doing light gaming (i.e. with already released titles like StarCraft II and BioShock) which naturally runs better on a 15" than it would on a 13".

Really, my argument for keeping the ODD is that (a) it's useful, even if I'm not using it constantly, and (b) only in these forums have I found more than three people (out of several hundred or so) that are fine buying a Mac, let alone computer in general, that isn't an 11.6" MacBook Air, or a NetBook. For most people I know in real life, excluding the optical drive would be a deal-breaker. Even the set-up I have with my Mac mini now wouldn't be something the Average Joe would want to do. I'm fine with it because I know what I'm doing, but it's not an idea I'd figure the common user would have. As for the MacBook Pro in my future, whether it be a 13" or a 15", that optical drive is a convenience that I need and Apple's external overpriced turd of an optical drive isn't an acceptable alternative.
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You've presented good reasons for you to have a MacBook Pro so I can't quibble there. My only comeback to your comments, going back to my original post, is that the Average Joe with average needs probably shouldn't be shopping for a MacBook Pro in the first place, so it shouldn't matter so much if it had an internal optical. Maybe if the MacBook looked as slick as the MacBook Pro fewer people would jump to that option when they really don't need all that it offers and could save their money. In an ideal world, an internal optical would be just one option for use of that space when ordering but I suspect that space isn't that flexible. Many of the arguments for keeping the ODD are the exact same arguments made for keeping the floppy drive and people quickly got over not having one. I never even bought an external floppy drive when it happened. Moving technology forward is usually a little painful for someone, like ripping off a band-aid. Crap, I wasted good money on SyQuest and Zip drives before they died, so I know how it is. Thankfully, I was never into buying movies on vhs, dvd or BluRay so it won't hurt me when they die out. Same with music on records, 8-tracks, cassettes or cds.
 
8CoreWhore said:
Just imagine the PR nightmare if the media ran with, "Apple uses flawed Intel chips". Bam. Perception is reality. No way in hell will Apple do that after antenna gate.
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Remember the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT fiasco? It's certainly possible, though Intel has stepped forward soon enough and luckily it's a much more minor flaw than the literal disintegration of the GPU on the logic board.

Hattig said:
I think the days of the internal optical disc drive are numbered.

On the 13" it has been pointed out that it is around 1/5 of the internal space of the system - that's a lot of space to dedicate to a function that fewer people are using each year. At some point it becomes more sensible to bundle an external superdrive with the laptop than to integrate it. It will stay in the 15" and 17" as the percentage of the system taken up by the drive is lower.

With the space that is freed up on the 13" product, Apple can include:

1) Discrete graphics.
2) Potential for better cooling -> faster processor and graphics
3) More USB ports
4) ExpressCard slot, for those people that want eSATA adaptors.
5) More battery

The App Store is surely one part of the infrastructure to start the move away from optical media.

I use the optical drive to rip CDs and to burn compilation CDs for use in my car. Both of these tasks can be done with an external drive without an issue, and I do these tasks at home so I don't need an integrated drive.

Also I think the higher res 13" MBA display will be in the new 13" MBP, that's a given surely!
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Discrete graphics, faster processors, and ExpressCard slots and more than the already impressive record of 10 hours of battery life aren't important enough for customers of that machine to be willing to sacrifice the ODD for. It's just not. Nor is the Internet fast enough nor do we have 4G (let alone 3G) on our laptops to make the Internet a complete replacement for the ODD. Plus it's far easier, far cheaper, and certainly far faster to distribute 4.7GB of stuff to your friend on a disc than it will be to use the Internet, at least for quite a few years to come.

laurim said:
You've presented good reasons for you to have a MacBook Pro so I can't quibble there. My only comeback to your comments, going back to my original post, is that the Average Joe with average needs probably shouldn't be shopping for a MacBook Pro in the first place, so it shouldn't matter so much if it had an internal optical. Maybe if the MacBook looked as slick as the MacBook Pro fewer people would jump to that option when they really don't need all that it offers and could save their money. In an ideal world, an internal optical would be just one option for use of that space when ordering but I suspect that space isn't that flexible. Many of the arguments for keeping the ODD are the exact same arguments made for keeping the floppy drive and people quickly got over not having one. I never even bought an external floppy drive when it happened. Moving technology forward is usually a little painful for someone, like ripping off a band-aid. Crap, I wasted good money on SyQuest and Zip drives before they died, so I know how it is. Thankfully, I was never into buying movies on vhs, dvd or BluRay so it won't hurt me when they die out. Same with music on records, 8-tracks, cassettes or cds.
Click to expand...

Floppies were replaced by CDs because, with the advent of CD burning, there was nothing that you couldn't do with a floppy that couldn't just as easily, if not more easily be done with a CD, be it writable, rewritable, or not at all. It was the next evolution and it was ripe for the picking. We're just not there yet with the Internet. You can't do everything as easily with it. Steve Jobs would like you to think you can, but you can't. I can install software many times faster with an ODD than I ever could with the Mac App Store or Steam or Blizzard's downloader. Burning DVDs, however slowly, is also a convenience that, on an all-in-one or a portable, is super handy. In the case of my Mac mini Server, the only sacrifice I've made is in not being able to use my eject key to eject my external LG burner. Minor bummer, but I'll take increased reliability and speed over the MacBook Air SuperDrive any day, not to mention the $50 savings.

As for your idea of the MacBook being essentially what the 13" Pro is today and the "new 13" Pro" being almost like a higher-end equivalent but without an ODD and with better graphics, I don't think most people would go for it right away. I think if that launched this calendar year, it'd probably flop as most consider the ODD an essential feature, despite what the skewwed majority on this site think. Nifty idea though, I'd definitely give it a look on my way to 15" MacBook Pro land.
 
altecXP said:
Consumer Centric? I know a lot of professional photographers that LOVE having that SD slot. It a lone is why some have gone for the 13in Pro instead of the 13in MB.
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It is consumer centric. Also, most 'pro' photographers use CF and not SD. Yes, some high end cameras do use SD (e.g. Canon 1D mk IV). However, its more of a backup rather then a primary format given the speed differences between SD and CF.

With the ExpressSlot, an SD reader could have been used w/o any unsightly bulge. I'd bet if you asked your Pro Photographer friends what they would prefer, either an express slot w/ options for CF, SD or eSATA, or just a SD port. I'd bet many would want the ExpressCard slot and the option to choose what format to use.
 
laurim said:
Sorry you personalized my post. The point I was trying to make was that different people have different levels of needs in a computer and that people with more basic computer needs shouldn't hold back features that are required for those with more intense needs. If they did, a "pro" line would have no value. It is generally agreed that anything called "Pro" is for someone with more intense needs than the average person. Has nothing to do with "profession". That's why there is Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro. You can't convince me that someone whose professional needs are generally limited to email, word processing and the occasional spreadsheet should be taken into account in designing a computer for the person who performs video editing, 3D modeling and serving HD movies on huge screens in convention centers. A person whose profession requires a lot of disc burning (I'd love to know what profession that is) should use a faster external drive or frankly, find a non-disc way of distributing/archiving content. Burning a bunch of discs one by one in an internal drive is not an efficient way of doing business so I don't think that's operating at a pro level, sorry.

Really, are a lot of people regularly burning discs on planes or in the back of taxis? C'mon. If they want to watch a movie, they can rent one from iTunes before they leave, like I do with my nano.
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Ummm, YOU personalized your post by specifically telling a member (Yebubbleman) in your post that his/her planned professional use of an optical drive was not that of a "True Pro". You characterized his/her intentions (and professionalism) simply by virtue of that person not meeting your personal "benchmarks" of what makes a true professional's use of a computer. Your post was personal, unequivocally so.

And your above post makes my point well,
"Pro" is for someone with more intense needs than the average person. Has nothing to do with "profession".
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So, if someone's need is to watch movies while traveling, because they have a library of 300 on disc, and choose not to buy/rent them from iTunes, then I guess their need is more "intense" for an optical drive. Thus, they may choose a "Pro" with that feature.

So as I said before in regards to features/hardward and what any person "needs"; I think we all need to get over ourselves and realize we are all different, and, when it comes to our personal needs and uses, usually correct. Most of us are not in need of being corrected by someone who does not walk in our shoes."
 
Yebubbleman said:
Floppies were replaced by CDs because, with the advent of CD burning, there was nothing that you couldn't do with a floppy that couldn't just as easily, if not more easily be done with a CD, be it writable, rewritable, or not at all. It was the next evolution and it was ripe for the picking. We're just not there yet with the Internet. You can't do everything as easily with it. Steve Jobs would like you to think you can, but you can't. I can install software many times faster with an ODD than I ever could with the Mac App Store or Steam or Blizzard's downloader. Burning DVDs, however slowly, is also a convenience that, on an all-in-one or a portable, is super handy. In the case of my Mac mini Server, the only sacrifice I've made is in not being able to use my eject key to eject my external LG burner. Minor bummer, but I'll take increased reliability and speed over the MacBook Air SuperDrive any day, not to mention the $50 savings.
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I'd argue that sharing data and installing software with a flash drive (or external hard drive if too large) is much easier and often faster than with a dvd(s). My 16 gig flash drive can hold more than three of your single-sided dvs and there are bigger jump drives available now. I share files that way all day when I'm on a job and don't have internet. People hand me a flash drive with their files on it (movies, PowerPoints, etc), I load it in my computer and hand it back to them. Friends could do that, too. Flash drives are cheap now so software could easily be sold on them for people who don't want to or can't download online. AND, you don't have to sit in front of the computer (or keeping checking on it) for hours swapping out dvds for large programs like Final Cut or Adobe Creative Suite. A much better solution for most things (possible exception is if you have to use the mail and can't share files by ftp server).
 
notabadname said:
So as I said before in regards to features/hardward and what any person "needs"; I think we all need to get over ourselves and realize we are all different, and, when it comes to our personal needs and uses, usually correct. Most of us are not in need of being corrected by someone who does not walk in our shoes."
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I think you two should rent a motel room and have yourselves some good lovin'. It'll clear the air, trust me.
 
BobbyLight said:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Can't wait for the update. I wonder if the redesign could include darker aluminum.
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I'd like to have THAT as the standard. I kinda miss the Black PowerBook G4 series colour.
 
laser71 said:
So the report says:


and that:


Would that imply that some new MBPs will be using more than two SATA ports? And if so, what would the new ports likely be used for?

Or alternatively, is there another reason why some MBP models would be impacted, while others are not?
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The 13" MBP would not be affected if it did not use the Cougar Point chipset, i.e., if Apple continues to use C2Ds in the 13" MBP. :eek:
 
Mikey7c8 said:
I think the key phrase here is "Im happy with the machine". Give yourself a break.



What hacked solution, using SATA6 only is a good thing. Those mentioning it are right that it would use more power, but we're talking low single digit percentage points at most.
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Is this the only difference or could there be firmware issues in the future? I am asking because in the past there were problems with the performance of at least some SSDs after an Apple firmware update.


MattInOz said:
But an ssd is going to make better use of of the higher speed ports, even if it's only there for optional extra then the ODD gets relegated to one of the slower ports (if they didn't have an oops).

Although the only real tweak they could do is a port multiplier on one port but which two would you split. The answer would seem to be HDD and ODD but that would suggest the SSD would need to be standard item. Then again features so far in lion would suggest and SSD needs to be standard at least in portables.
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I guess I am not up-to-date. Could you please elaborate what features in Lion would suggest the need for an SSD in a Mac?


Schizoid said:
This is a Verizon MacBook right?
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Thanks. That comment made me chuckle.


Danekero said:
So as I understand it, two of the six available SATA ports are functional but the other four aren't? As I've read, the MBP only uses two of these ports (HDD and ODD). If that's so, the current lineup wouldn't be affected by this problem.

However, the article says only some models are having problems. From that we can infer that there is an optional eSATA port or a second internal drive, presumably a SSD. Both of these things would boost the MBPs SATA usage to 3+ ports. There is nothing in this article that suggests Apple is dropping the ODD in some notebooks. In fact, it suggests the opposite - they are adding a drive, not taking one away.

My money's on an optional boot SSD, but that's just me.



I wouldn't call that a design improvement. On the iMac it makes sense and cleans up the look, but on a laptop all it does is puts the screen in danger of being damaged by the lower half.
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I would not bet on an optional boot SSD, but rather the retention of C2Ds in the 13" MBP. If my guess is accurate, Apple will update again by the end of the year when Ivy Bridge comes out.

Also, I think Apple will eventually go to a boot SSD, but I now believe they could do it while retaining the ODD. Hitachi and LG just released an ODD that will come bundled with flash memory (i.e., an SSD) in increments from 8GB to 256 GB. It is possible Apple could use this ODD/SSD combo with 32 or 64 GB of flash memory to use as a boot drive and retain the ODD. Unfortunately, this ODD/SDD combo, which comes as a DVD RW or Blu Ray drive, will not be available until May.:(
 
Oh, and for those who think that the ODD is needed

Tabudrummer said:
Okay So I have been coming to this site for years, but have just never felt the need to write anything but suddenly I have a reason.

I really don't understand why everyone seems to think the removal of the ODD from the 13" macbook pro would make it "just another macbook air" or anything along those lines. In Apple did in fact remove the ODD, which I think is a fantastic idea, it would allow for them to make the machine even more different than the macbook air, not more the same. The space freed up by the removal would in turn allow for a discreet gpu, potentially a second hardrive, and even a better cooling solution. These changes would make the macbook even more different than the macbook air, because it would have significantly more horse power. The only true similarities would be screen size, and the fact that there is no ODD, and that is not at all enough to put them into the same classes.

Also to add to this removal of the ODD possiblilty I would like to say that I was strickly against this as well for the longest time, but I ended up getting a laptop with out an ODD anyways, and I really dont miss it. The only reason for getting rid of this laptop is that I am going to be getting the new MBP when it comes out.

Oh, and for those who think that the ODD is needed, please just think about how much you really use the ODD while on the go. I wont debate about whether or not you need it as everyone is different, but your never going to be installing software or burning discs from your ODD with the computer on your lap or while on the more, or atleast you really shouldn't. External ODD's are very cheap now, and also very good, they actually are a much better option in the long run.

Sorry for the really long post, but I just had to get this out there, haha

~Peace
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You make some good points in your post, but I for one use the ODD every week. I listen to books on my iPod, and I borrow the cds from the library and then add them to iTunes and then to my iPod (all legal). The library also has audio books for download, but the selection is very sparse. There are many more books on cd available, and the cost is free. I also buy audio books from iTunes and Audible.com, but the average cost for a book is $25.00. In addition, I have an extensive selection of movies on dvds, that I watch on my laptop. In addition, I make quite a few dvds from photos using iDvd and give them as gifts to friends. While I could get an external drive, it would not be as convenient.
 
shervieux said:
your definition of basic computing, may be different than mine. To me basic computing is doing everything except running a full database server and programming (I include video editing, photo editing, invoice applications, calendar, word processing, spreadsheeting, etc as basic computing). Other consider basic computing just running Office/iWork, Internet, and email.

I have a 2008 white macbook with 2.4ghz Core Duo, 2gb ram, 250 hard drive (top of the line at the time - pretty equivalent to the the new ones now).. Video editing is a little slower due to only having 2gb ram, and running a virtual machine through parallels is painful (mostly due to low memory in the windows VM). All my mac apps (including new ones bought at on the mac app store) run just fine - including running multiple applications at once.

Depending on your use - I would say keep your machine. You can get 3-7 years of good use out of a mac. And with the new boards supporting upwards of 4-8gb ram, you can upgrade it and get plenty of use out of it. I wanted to put more memory in mine, but I hear conflicting stories on whether my board will recognize the max of 4gb or 2gb. if I could upgrade to 4 - I would not be considering another one anytime soon.

And I hope you bought Applecare. Anything happens to your machine in 3 years - Apple is excellent at taking care of you. I and the people I know never had problems with their machines, but I read of a few problems and Apple took care of them.

Oh and my laptop stays turned on for weeks at a time. I only shut it off when I have to take it somewhere, or an occasional reboot just to clear some caches and apply updates. that is the beauty of a Unix/Linux based OS.
Click to expand...

You should be able to upgrade your RAM to 4GB. I am running a black MacBook 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo with 250GB HDD which came stock with 2GB RAM. I immediately upgraded the RAM to 4GB of Crucial Mac certified RAM and noticed an immediate increase in speed and responsiveness. I also run VMWare Fusion on my MB and there is plenty of RAM for a Win XP VM alongside OS X without any lag in either OS -- just preallocate your space for the VM for faster operation.

Also, for all those who want Apple to eliminate the ODD, this will make it much harder to install older OSes in Fusion. Perhaps the lack of an ODD on the MBA is the reason that it can only use Win 7 in Bootcamp. All other Macs can boot into XP, Vista, or Win 7 via Bootcamp (per Apple's website).


shartypants said:
I thought the next MBPs were going to be quad core, I wonder how much longer for those...
Click to expand...

I doubt we will see quad-cores across the MBP line until at least Ivy Bridge.
 
laurim said:
I'd argue that sharing data and installing software with a flash drive (or external hard drive if too large) is much easier and often faster than with a dvd(s). My 16 gig flash drive can hold more than three of your single-sided dvs and there are bigger jump drives available now. I share files that way all day when I'm on a job and don't have internet. People hand me a flash drive with their files on it (movies, PowerPoints, etc), I load it in my computer and hand it back to them. Friends could do that, too. Flash drives are cheap now so software could easily be sold on them for people who don't want to or can't download online. AND, you don't have to sit in front of the computer (or keeping checking on it) for hours swapping out dvds for large programs like Final Cut or Adobe Creative Suite. A much better solution for most things (possible exception is if you have to use the mail and can't share files by ftp server).
Click to expand...

I'd agree with you were it not for the fact that not everyone brings their computer with them and I'm not about to hand off my flash drive (attached to my keychain) for someone else to borrow, this is where a DVD-R comes in handy. Not everyone has a flash drive that they take with them like I do.

Val-kyrie said:
You should be able to upgrade your RAM to 4GB. I am running a black MacBook 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo with 250GB HDD which came stock with 2GB RAM. I immediately upgraded the RAM to 4GB of Crucial Mac certified RAM and noticed an immediate increase in speed and responsiveness. I also run VMWare Fusion on my MB and there is plenty of RAM for a Win XP VM alongside OS X without any lag in either OS -- just preallocate your space for the VM for faster operation.

Also, for all those who want Apple to eliminate the ODD, this will make it much harder to install older OSes in Fusion. Perhaps the lack of an ODD on the MBA is the reason that it can only use Win 7 in Bootcamp. All other Macs can boot into XP, Vista, or Win 7 via Bootcamp (per Apple's website).




I doubt we will see quad-cores across the MBP line until at least Ivy Bridge.
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Really, I don't know how people on here can't understand that (a) the populace of this forum isn't representative of any real numbers on the ODD issue, and (b) the ODD isn't ready for prime-time discontinuation just because THEY are able to live fine without it. It makes sense in the MacBook Air because it's all about portability at any cost, and it makes sense on the Mac mini Server as the damn thing is stationary and if you really want an external ODD, you can get one and you'll sacrifice minimally, plus most people won't really be using the ODD as it is, after all, meant to be a server. But on something like a 13" or a 15" MacBook Pro? There's no way that's happening anytime in the near future. Anyone banking otherwise has their head up their pooper.
 
Yebubbleman said:
Anyone banking otherwise has their head up their pooper.
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+1 pretty much agree with you but even if I didn't...nice ending. :D

iMO If they drop the odd it will start off BTO (people get what they want and apple makes more money).... But it is apple so I will not be too surprised by anything they decide to do
 
Dear Jobs, God etc...

Please make this as fast as possible. The current computer I have sux the arse!

Thank you
 
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