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Thanks for the post Jimbo99
I live in Germany and education rebate would apply but didn't find that at the German lenovo site :-( ...

How much did you spend?
Is the W700 loud?
How about heat?
How long is the battery life? (I just need about 1h)

This is the cheapest I've found on the net in germany:
http://www.uni-notebooks.de/Single-...[backPID]=783&tx_ttproducts_pi1[product]=3216

cbass, I noticed that the link you provide for the W700 is with the quad-core processor. In the U.S., that adds $1000 to the price compared to the 2.8 GHz T9600 processor that you mentioned in your original post. So, you can save a lot by instead buying the T9600.

I've read that Lenovo is offering Thinkpads for less in the U.S. than in other countries, because they're apparently trying hard to capture more U.S. market share (I don't know why, given our current economy). I checked the German version of their site, and noticed that it lacks the government and educational section that the U.S. site has. You might call them to see if they're offering such discounts.

We're eligible for the educational discount, so that's what I used. Forums sometimes get upset about people discussing educational prices, so I'll put it this way. My purchase of the W700 with the T9600 processor, Vista Business 64, 400 nit display, 4GB DDR3 RAM, 160GB 7200 RPM hard drive, Blu-ray burner, built-in color calibrator/graphics tablet, higher-end 3700M GPU, and the warranty I described above, was about $500-600 more than the educational price I would have paid for the closest-equipped 17" MBP (BEFORE the price-drop introduced with the new Mac laptops). Of course, the 17" MBP can't be configured with that processor, DDR3 memory, that display (which is 33% brighter than the LED-backlit display on the current 17" MBP), Blu-ray burner, color calibrator, tablet, that fast of a GPU, or that warranty, So the comparison has it's limits. And I've seen Lenovo's prices vary by $500 from one day to the next. So I check them each day, and I get to keep the lowest price they offer for the same system up until 21 days after my ship date (but I have to save that lowest-price configuration in my account to get credit for it).

My laptop isn't scheduled to ship until next week, but I can answer your other questions by quoting reviews. Here's a review for a W700 with the T9600 processor:

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Lenovo-Thinkpad-W700-Mobile-Workstation/

Regarding how loud it is:

"Amazingly, while using all this power, the system is surprisingly cool and quiet during normal operation. Even during prolonged CPU and GPU load tests, we did not hear the Thinkpad W700 become any louder compared to its stock levels. While there are definitely fans running inside of the laptop, they are muted to a point where they are not noticeable"

Regarding heat, the notebookreview W700 review I mentioned earlier took temperatures:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4638

"After heavily loading the processor for nearly an hour, I couldn't get any area of the case to register at or above 100 degrees Fahrenheit. For a big, powerful system with a pair of hard drives, those are very livable numbers to be sure."

That was for a W700 having Intel's mobile quad-core processor. But as I mentioned earlier, I instead ordered the T9600 dual-core processor, which runs significantly cooler.

Here's the report on battery life from the hothardware article, regarding the W700 with the T9600 processor:

"If you're heavily taxing the CPU, GPU, and storage systems with your screen on full brightness, you can expect to see about an hour and a half of un-plugged battery life. If you're using the system lightly, for say web browsing, writing, with the screen on a lowered brightness setting, you can expect to see about two and a half hours of battery life. If you tone everything down to its lowest levels, you might be able to eek out over three hours if you're lucky"

The W700 has what Intel calls "switchable graphics." This means is that, for longer battery life, you can operate using Intel's integrated graphics chip. For instead higher performance, you can switch to the Quadro FX GPU. You can switch on the fly, without logging out or rebooting, although you do have to exit any applications that are currently running. (It's similar to the new MBP's 7400M vs. 9600M GPU switching.) BTW, the Dell does not have the switchable graphics.
 
I can tell you that I do all of those things on my MBP 2.2 right now (FCS, AE, Maya, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). I am not aware of any application that would benefit from 8 gigs of ram on a 2 core laptop. The only app that even pays attention among your listed is AE and Adobe recommends 1-2 gig of ram / core for that. So, unless you get a quad core laptop everything over 4 gig is a waste.

Honestly, the only reason I have a laptop is that I am on the go a lot and doing my work in various places. If I didn't I would be much happier with a MacPro as it blows all the laptops away. So, I am wondering if you really move around that much and if you do, wouldn't you benefit from having a laptop that is more portable than the Dell monsters?

-mx
 
It's better to ask how much memory will you need over the planned life of the laptop. To answer that, you can use Moore's Law, which has been very accurate for decades. The result is essentially that you'll need twice as much memory in two years as you need now. You'll need four times as much memory in four years as you need now (doubles every two years).

So, figure out how much memory you need now, figure out how long you want to use the laptop, and you'll have your answer. Of course, this will vary from one user to the next, depending on what they do on their computer.

Another way to look at it is, if you double the maximum memory capacity of a computer, then its useful lifespan will be two years longer. That's assuming that memory is the limiting factor in lifespan. For machines running Windows for example, it is, because they become unstable if you don't have enough RAM. On the other hand, if your graphics chip overheats and burns out two months after your warranty expires, then that's the limiting factor in lifespan.

You don't need an expensive or large computer to have an 8GB memory capacity. Most of the new Centrino 2 laptops already have this capacity, and they run the gamut in terms of price and size.

Eleven years ago, I bought a laptop that had 256MB of RAM. People asked why I needed such an ungodly amount of memory...
 
I was hoping for a larger chassis 17" MacBook Pro on October 15th with BTO options similar to what you can configure the Dell Precision 6400 with. Seeing as how the 17" MPB got almost no upgrade at all, I'm going to postpone the 6400 purchase until I see if the MPB gets a serious upgrade at Macworld. I'm going to be doing HDR photography, 3D design and HD video editing and want the mobile quad cpu, memory up to 16GB, Blu-ray writer, 2-7,200rpm hds in raid 0 and the 1GB Quadro 3700. Hopefully Apple will finally put the pro into the MPB. :apple:
 
For kicks, here are a 17" MacBook Pro and a ThinkPad W700 configured as closely as possible, to compare their (standard) prices, plus a list of some available W700 add-ons w/prices (all prices U.S., subject to frequent change):


17" MacBook Pro, $3,197
- Intel Core 2 Duo processor (2.5GHz, 800MHz FSB, 6MBL2)
- Mac OS X
- 4GB (two SO-DIMMs) of 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM, 4GB Max
- MacBook Pro 17-inch Antiglare Widescreen LED-backlit Display, 1920x1200, brightness=300NIT
- NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT 32-core parallel graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR3 memory
- iSight 1.3 megapixel integrated Camera
- 320GB Serial ATA @ 5400
- SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
- IEEE 802.11a/b/g/Draft-N wireless (2-stream 802.11n)
- Backlit Keyboard
- Apple USB Modem
- AppleCare 3-year extended warranty for MacBook Pro

interfaces:
- Display: DVI (VGA adapter included)
- Gigabit Ethernet
- Bluetooth 2.1+EDR
- one FireWire 800 port and one FireWire 400 port
- 3 USB
- one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog
- ExpressCard/34 expansion card slot

size: 1.0 x 15.4 x 10.4 inches
weight: 6.6 pounds



ThinkPad W700, $3,093 (prices change frequently)
- Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9400 (2.53GHz 1066MHz FSB, 6MBL2)
- Genuine Windows Vista Business 64
- 4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM), 8GB Max
- 17" WUXGA CCFL-backlit TFT display, 1920x1200, brightness=400NIT
- NVIDIA Quadro FX 2700M 48-core parallel graphics processor 512MB of GDDR3 memory
- 1.3 Megapixel Integrated Camera
- Non-RAID HDD, 320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
- DVD Recordable 8x Max Ultrabay Enhanced (Serial ATA)
- IEEE 802.11a/b/g/Draft-N wireless (3-stream 802.11n)
- keyboard, lit by overhead LED lights
- built-in Modem
- 3 year depot 9x5 Next Business Day Warranty

interfaces:
- Display: DisplayPort, Dual Link DVI-D, VGA
- Gigabit Ethernet
- phone jack for modem
- Bluetooth® 2.0
- one FireWire 400 port
- 5 USB
- Microphone/Line In, Headphone/line-out
- Multimedia Card Reader (7-in-1)
- 54mm ExpressCard, 34mm ExpressCard
- Ultranav (track point) + Fingerprint Reader

size: 16.1 x 12.2 x 1.6"
weight: 8.3lb


Here are some of the optional add-ons for the W700:

- Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9600 (2.8GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2) [add $275.00]
- Intel Core 2 Extreme (quad-core) processor QX9300 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 12MBL2) [add $1,275.00]
- NVIDIA Quadro FX 3700M 128-core CUDA parallel computing processor 1GB (dedicated) [add $400.00] (approx. twice as fast as discrete GPU on new MBPs)
- built-in Pantone Color Sensor + WACOM Digitizer [add $150.00]
- built-in Dual 160GB, 7200rpm RAID Enabled Hard Disk Drives [add $85.00]
- built-in ThinkPad Blu-ray Recordable Ultrabay Enhanced (Serial ATA) [add $450.00]
- built-in Compact Flash + Express Card(34mm) [add $10.00] (in place of 54mm ExpressCard + 34mm ExpressCard)
- 4 year On Site 9x5 Next Business Day Warranty Upgrade with 4 Year ThinkPad Protection (accidental damage protection) [adds $380.50, over the warranty listed above, which is not as clear as it should be on the configuration page]

ThinkPad W700 Mini Dock [add $223.20], which includes:
- analog VGA port, duallink DVI-I port, and DisplayPort
- stereo headphone out and microphone in analog ports and S/PDIF digital output port
- eSATA port - For connection of high-bandwidth eSATA storage devices
- Four USB 2.0 ports
- Gigabit Ethernet
- Includes cable lock slot to secure dock to workspace and convenient key lock to protect notebook while it is in the dock
- Ships with 170-watt AC adapter
 
I was hoping for a larger chassis 17" MacBook Pro on October 15th with BTO options similar to what you can configure the Dell Precision 6400 with. Seeing as how the 17" MPB got almost no upgrade at all, I'm going to postpone the 6400 purchase until I see if the MPB gets a serious upgrade at Macworld. I'm going to be doing HDR photography, 3D design and HD video editing and want the mobile quad cpu, memory up to 16GB, Blu-ray writer, 2-7,200rpm hds in raid 0 and the 1GB Quadro 3700. Hopefully Apple will finally put the pro into the MPB. :apple:

Well yeah a updated 17" MBP with similar specs would be pretty cool. Then You got "best of both worlds" good Design, OS X and Windows (if you need it, BootCamp or Parallels) I don't think they put a quad core in it though the Quads will come with Nehalem I guess in the end of 2009 or even beginning 2010 :-(
Maybe the MBP 17" comes in November well no one knows. But one is for sure It'll come.
 
I have a Dell Precision M60 that's 4 years old, it has died 3 times.
1:st time the RAM didn't feel like collaborating with me during a class session. (I was the teacher). Thanks to Gold Support a guy came and replaced both sticks during the lunch.
2:nd time the motherboard, RAM and CPU were replaced, the computer didn't work, but nobody knew why, so they put all new stuff inside.
3:rd time the Harddrive just crashed when booting. Luckily I did a full backup the night before. This happened 3 years after it was bought, and Dell were generous enough to search for, and find, another 40 GB HD. I think it would have been easier to find a 120 or 160 GB drive last year. ;-(

Most large companies I've worked for the last 7-8 years have a lot of Dell hardware, and I can say I'm not impressed. (But I've heard of people who didn't have issues with their Dells)


So far I've had NO issues with my Apple hardware.

We run Dell D630 and Previous gen Macbook Pros at work (very large multimedia company), the worst offenders by far are the pros when it comes to reliability.

Dell is no way less reliable then Apple. Both have thier issues, just choose a machine that will meet your needs.
 
Dell quality is horrible.

I had a top of the line Dell laptop (inspiron 8100?) that was such a piece of SH**, that I will never buy a Dell laptop again. The case flexed so much that I could lift one corner .5cm off the ground with all the other corners touching. The screen's connection to the mobo would wiggle loose and I would constantly have to dismantle the keyboard and re-attach it. Granted, I bought this computer back in '02 and time has marched onwards, but it just seems to me that even back then Apple was making powerbooks that were just a lot better built. I could have bought a powerbook for the same price I paid for that POS dell.

The new MBP or even the Classic design are just rock solid monsters. My view is that people weigh the inside specs way too much. I would make sure to focus on overall refinement and user interface. Would you rather own a Lexus with a toyota engine or go for a Mustang with it's crappy interior?
 
All right guys, I still didn't make a decision but I tend to buy a Win Laptop first of all because of 64bit support from Adobe and Autodesk Applikations. Since I read a lot that BootCamp under the new MBP isn't that good I tend not to get the MBP. We will see what happends during the next month. I will inform you what I finally bought.
 
first, this is a Mac forum so anything you get from here is going to sound biased.

But, I would go with the MBP. Not to bash on the Dell laptops but their quality has gone down. I personally owned 3 different Dell laptops back from Inspiron 8600c to XPS M1330. Only laptop that didn't have any problems was the Inspiron 8600c. The M1210 and the M1330 had tons of problems. I had overheating issues on M1210 to M1330 base warping.

If the Dell laptop meets your need than all the power to you but just make sure to get a good extended warranty with them cuz you'll need them soon or later.
 
First, addressing the people who say "dell quality sucks" etc....

It has long been known that while their inspiron/xps line may suffer from quality control issues, their professional lines (latitude and precision) have been known for its quality and rock solid stability.

....And lets be honest, the Macbook pro's share the same or more issues than even the inspiron line.

Spec wise, the precision m6400 is an absolute monster and you will be hard pressed to find another laptop of that caliber. Quad core extreme, with raid 0 hard drive configuration, and very high end Quadro cards. If you were to compare a fully loaded m6400 to a fully loaded macbook pro, the two honestly aren't even in the same league.

Additionally, the benefit of Dell's are often their flexibility. Almost all the parts are upgradeable even the CPU and GPU.

Don't get me wrong, I love the macbook pro and I think it may be more than powerful enough for your needs, but if you're asking strictly from a standpoint of power and flexibility, the precision m6400 is hands down superior.
 
First, addressing the people who say "dell quality sucks" etc....

It has long been known that while their inspiron/xps line may suffer from quality control issues, their professional lines (latitude and precision) have been known for its quality and rock solid stability.

....And lets be honest, the Macbook pro's share the same or more issues than even the inspiron line.

Spec wise, the precision m6400 is an absolute monster and you will be hard pressed to find another laptop of that caliber. Quad core extreme, with raid 0 hard drive configuration, and very high end Quadro cards. If you were to compare a fully loaded m6400 to a fully loaded macbook pro, the two honestly aren't even in the same league.

Additionally, the benefit of Dell's are often their flexibility. Almost all the parts are upgradeable even the CPU and GPU.

Don't get me wrong, I love the macbook pro and I think it may be more than powerful enough for your needs, but if you're asking strictly from a standpoint of power and flexibility, the precision m6400 is hands down superior.
I have a recent Dell Vostro laptop with specs almost like a MBP. The case is Magnesium and built like a tank. I chose XP rather than Vista. I am very satisfied with this machine. There is a Mac laptop and another Windows laptop as well as a multitude of Mac desktops and Windows desktops in my house, all networked. Computers are my hobby, but they are very useful for my daily stock market trading.
 
I can tell you that I do all of those things on my MBP 2.2 right now (FCS, AE, Maya, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). I am not aware of any application that would benefit from 8 gigs of ram on a 2 core laptop. The only app that even pays attention among your listed is AE and Adobe recommends 1-2 gig of ram / core for that. So, unless you get a quad core laptop everything over 4 gig is a waste.

I don't use any of those apps, to be honest, but I have used, and still use, a vast array of audio apps. Most of those apps have a minimum recommended ram of a measly 256MB. Of course, the moment you use those apps for more than a small five minute mono file you will need more than that. I have 3GB on my MBP (it's the max on this version) and I have been using so many tracks (real, not virtual midi and whatnot) with rather big audio files (24bit/48-192kHz) and I have maxed it.

Now, I'm lucky I only do audio – it's pretty forgiving on the hardware side of things - but video and so on takes a real toll on ram. I'm sure people working with that sort of thing swiftly can make use of 4, 6, and 8 GB of ram. My point is that you cannot - from doubling the "minimum recommended ram" - conclude that more than 4GB is "a waste".


Edit: Heh! I just looked at the system requirements for Bias Deck (on OS X) – Bias Deck is a multitrack app - It says 128MB RAM. 128!!
 
Hi,

allright my notebook is right about to die and I need a new one.
I am doing a lot of webdesign, 3d, video (Premiere & After Effects) and photoshop. And need a Workstation with enough power for everything. Especially enought RAM.

First I was thinking to get the new MacBook Pro with 2,8Ghz would cost me about 2400 Euros. But then I saw the Dell Precision M6400
http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/p...dt1&id=workstation-precision-m6400&l=de&s=bsd

It is heavier and taller but is upgradable up to 16GB of Ram (well 6GB would be enought) It would cost me like 2500€ plus 4GB Ram later on and its a 17" with a resolution of 1920x1200 I would take the 2.8Ghz as well.

So what would you do?


First of all, learn to speak German...
 
Those are some SWEET specs on the Dell! It rocks the MBP's world there! Just get OSX to run on it ;) Ugly as hell though.
 
First, addressing the people who say "dell quality sucks" etc....

It has long been known that while their inspiron/xps line may suffer from quality control issues, their professional lines (latitude and precision) have been known for its quality and rock solid stability.

....And lets be honest, the Macbook pro's share the same or more issues than even the inspiron line.

Spec wise, the precision m6400 is an absolute monster and you will be hard pressed to find another laptop of that caliber. Quad core extreme, with raid 0 hard drive configuration, and very high end Quadro cards. If you were to compare a fully loaded m6400 to a fully loaded macbook pro, the two honestly aren't even in the same league.

Additionally, the benefit of Dell's are often their flexibility. Almost all the parts are upgradeable even the CPU and GPU.

Don't get me wrong, I love the macbook pro and I think it may be more than powerful enough for your needs, but if you're asking strictly from a standpoint of power and flexibility, the precision m6400 is hands down superior.

Well, I tell you what, it wasn't known to me! Perhaps they should put a warning on their website: "our inspiron/xps series have been known to suffer quality control issues". And honestly, the quality from my MBP Classis is not even in the same ballpark as the Dell I used to own. There is simply no comparison. Even today, if you were to put the MBP Classic side by side, with your eyes closed, and only focus on the keyboard, the laptops cannot compare. If you were to then open your eyes and compare the design, you would be equaly swayed towards the macbook.

I do agree with you about the upgradability, but guess what, it leads to more stable systems.

Please don't be offended - I think I'm just in love with my new MBP. To each their own. Evidently there are people out there who are satisfied with Dell's quality. I'm just not one of them.
 
You might be right about the quality of the inspiron, a friend has an older one and it really isn't that great. Another one has an XPS I thinks its pretty solid, it's ok but I guess it's the design that makes the difference. Anyways The Precision (I didn't see one live) is from what I heard a different quality standard than the consumer products dell offers since its pointed at buisness people.

I still can't decide what to buy. Now I am even concidering a desktop pc and a small laptop just for presentations and stuff like that. But I gues I'd go with a PC and get EFI-X and OSX since a MacPro is definately overpowered, plus there will be new ones soon and they will have even more power (probably more expencive) and an iMac is no solution because of the glossy screen I really don't like it. So I maybe build myself a MidiMac ;-) and still be in about the 2000$ range (I already got a screen)

It's a really hard decision. During november I really need to decide cause I want to work as fast as I can do at work ;-) (there we got iMacs, MacPros, and PCs)
 
I have a recent Dell Vostro laptop with specs almost like a MBP. The case is Magnesium and built like a tank. I chose XP rather than Vista. I am very satisfied with this machine. There is a Mac laptop and another Windows laptop as well as a multitude of Mac desktops and Windows desktops in my house, all networked. Computers are my hobby, but they are very useful for my daily stock market trading.

yup - the vostro is part of the business line - rock solid.

..... the quality from my MBP Classis is not even in the same ballpark as the Dell I used to own. There is simply no comparison. Even today, if you were to put the MBP Classic side by side, with your eyes closed, and only focus on the keyboard, the laptops cannot compare. If you were to then open your eyes and compare the design, you would be equaly swayed towards the macbook.

I love my classic macbook pro too. That's not a question. But it is clear that you've had a bad experience with one product and are generalizing on the entire brand.

Regarding your example of putting them side by side - you are again generalizing with one bad product you've owned (likely an inspiron, which is a mid level consumer line) and comparing to apple's flagship prosumer macbook pro. That isn't even a fair comparison - not to mention that you're paying a huge premium over what you'd pay for a dell (even some of the flagship models).

Your example relies heavily on a subjective assessment of design. I love my classic MBP but I also love the look of the magnesium Vostros.

And your keyboard reference? Completely subjective and I prefer keyboards from Sony and Dell than to my Classic MBP keyboard. I do like my MBA keyboard though.


I do agree with you about the upgradability, but guess what, it leads to more stable systems.

That is just plain wrong. Just because a system is more upgradeable does not make it less stable. That's like saying because you can upgrade your CPU or ram, that somehow makes your system less stable. Your system is the same either way - you're just given the option to upgrade later on.

Please don't be offended - I think I'm just in love with my new MBP. To each their own. Evidently there are people out there who are satisfied with Dell's quality. I'm just not one of them.

No offense taken. I agree that some of the lower consumer level inspiron products are garbage and quality control is often subpar. However, having used and owned latitudes and precisions, I can tell you that there is large difference in quality control between the lower consumer grade products and their business/professional grade laptops.

Honestly, other vendors are the same - HP, Lenvo/IBM, Dell. Their consumer grade laptops are always a step under their business/professional lines. Even apple - their MBP have been in the past more solid than the lower consumer macbook lines. Just recently their Glassbook has closed the gap slightly between the the Macbook line and the MPB - but even then, many have already noticed the cheaper screen on the Glassbook.

I've been disappointed with the problems that have arisen from the MBP - which is consider a pro level laptop. Heat dissipation is a very fundamental issue and should have been addressed in their first iteration or second iteration of the aluminum macbook pros, but it wasn't addressed until the penryn chip came along (third iteration I believe) - and even then, it wasn't really "addressed" - it just used the penryn's inherent ability to run cooler to solve an issue that they did not fix even after two iterations of the aluminum MBP.
 
i assume you are going for a laptop as you need something portable, so really be careful about the weight of any system. My old machine was a dell XPS 1710, and is was ***** heavy! One of the best things about the macbook pro is its relative weight and size for the specs you get. Not to Mention the size of the power transformers for PC laptops; again my XPS's was way too big, and apples' are so small!
 
You are right pixelated, the weight and size is what keeps me from buying the Precision, it's like 4kg heavy and 3,4 to 3,8 cm thick thats pretty hughe.

It's just the power thing thats conserning me because MBP and Precision are at pretty much the same price and Precision is 17" and so on you know it all was already mentioned. Well it's a power/design question I guess

What do you think?
 
the money you spend on the dell is worth it, its got good upgradeability - i would go for it as it will be usable for years :)
 
I second this opinion. I had been a staunch Dell buyer/user. I recommended Dell to countless customers for both the server room and the desktop. Then I got a C800 that was a lemon and Dell harrassed me every step of the way through the three years it was under warranty. Never again!



I had a top of the line Dell laptop (inspiron 8100?) that was such a piece of SH**, that I will never buy a Dell laptop again. The case flexed so much that I could lift one corner .5cm off the ground with all the other corners touching. The screen's connection to the mobo would wiggle loose and I would constantly have to dismantle the keyboard and re-attach it. Granted, I bought this computer back in '02 and time has marched onwards, but it just seems to me that even back then Apple was making powerbooks that were just a lot better built. I could have bought a powerbook for the same price I paid for that POS dell.

The new MBP or even the Classic design are just rock solid monsters. My view is that people weigh the inside specs way too much. I would make sure to focus on overall refinement and user interface. Would you rather own a Lexus with a toyota engine or go for a Mustang with it's crappy interior?


The difference, I have come to believe, is in how the company treats you when you have an issue with the product. At the Apple Store there is a procedure and people in place to help you. With Lenovo, Sony, Dell and HP, the solution is to ship your gear to some far off place and tough it out.

Apple is not aiming at the business market so they make service available to the end users. I don't want to hire an IT groupl to handle my IT problems. I guess if you have an IT department, you don't need Apple service.
 
The difference, I have come to believe, is in how the company treats you when you have an issue with the product... With Lenovo, Sony, Dell and HP, the solution is to ship your gear to some far off place and tough it out.

...Uhm, if something goes wrong with my Lenovo ThinkPad, a service tech comes to my living room the next business day and fixes it.
 
With Lenovo, Sony, Dell and HP, the solution is to ship your gear to some far off place and tough it out.

I understand this is an Apple forum, but like the above poster has stated, that statement is just incorrect.

Never had that issue with Dell, HP or Lenovo.

Sony on the other hand, is notorious for their terrible support. I did have to send my laptop in once with them, but even then, the turnaround time was less than a week and they paid for the shipping and boxes both ways.
 
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