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theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,984
8,407
What is even more interesting is the chance that the M4 Pro/Max variants will support Thunderbolt 5.
Aside - as with TB4 and USB4 (see previous post), TB5 is just USB4v2 with stricter minimum specs/options and an Intel certification program. While the TB5 standard came a bit late to be integrated in to the M4 series, USB4v2 which actually defines the technology came somewhat earlier and might have made the cut.

The base M3 supports TB3, while the base M4 supports TB4.
The base M2 supports TB4 - see the specs for the M2 Mac Mini. The restriction was the base M2/M3 only support 2 displays and TB4 requires two over Thunderbolt. So you couldn't have TB4 plus a permanent internal display and the MacBook ports had to be described as "TB3/USB4".

The base M3 probably supports TB4 in theory - but has never been fitted to a machine without a permanent internal display, so we wouldn't know.
 

DaniTheFox

macrumors regular
Nov 24, 2023
192
145
Switzerland
The M3 MacBook Pro had a rocky start, but it’s finally getting its groove back. What is currently lacking to become a “Pro”?
 

StuBeck

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2008
924
1,553
It requires actual space on the chip for dedicated display engines, which was at a premium for M1/2/3. Apple took feedback and is willing to add more of them, but as usual with chip design, it took years to realize.
Its worth remembering that they had a limitation they themselves created early on. While they technically took feedback...they knew this was going to be an issue and didn't care about it. Now its a feature!
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,664
12,593
TLDNR: Since the M4 has a new display controller (and everything we've seen so far is possibly knobbled by being in an iPad) it's quite plausible that the M4 will support more displays but TB3/USB4 vs. TB4 is pretty subtle, and might be a mistake by the leakers or might just be the current clamshell-mode support with Intel TB certification.
It says TB4 right on the box. If the box isn’t fake then that means the M4 MacBook Pro got a display support upgrade.

BTW, Apple has already said that the display engine in M4 got a major overhaul. In the case of the iPad Pro, it was for tandem OLED, among other things.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,050
2,724
UK
Meanwhile my M1 Max Macbook Pro supports as good as anything I throw at it. But when I can I'd advoid HDMI and just use nice USB-C screens. At home I use the excellent iVanky dock, and at work a nice little Anker dongle as they only provide HDMI screens :(

Apple does make it rather complicated, but that is why I don't think the base Pro's make much sense. Heck a current generation Air is an even better bet.
 

Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,246
2,043
Its worth remembering that they had a limitation they themselves created early on. While they technically took feedback...they knew this was going to be an issue and didn't care about it. Now its a feature!
Yes, case in point, in 2020, the Intel MBA released in the first half of the year, its chip could do 1+2 displays since that's how Intel designed this chip (to be used not just for Apple but also other clients). Then in late 2020 in the same chassis, on the Apple Silicon version of the same line up, the M1 reduced that to 1+1.

This point has been discussed extensively a few times else where on this forum. My take away is that Apple probably didn't intent the M1 to be such a success, and was ready to be deployed for 1st gen Apple Silicon, since it was more or less just based on iPad A12Z where external displays is not a priority. But on the silicon "budget" they prioritized other tech instead, even further down to the M2 M3 chip design, which was the more puzzling part.
 
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PsykX

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2006
2,716
3,887
If M4 MBPs have it, the MBA will also have it.
If they all end up having 16GB as mentioned... wow, they're gonna be great machines.
 
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DaniTheFox

macrumors regular
Nov 24, 2023
192
145
Switzerland
My take away is that Apple probably didn't intent the M1 to be such a success, and was ready to be deployed for 1st gen Apple Silicon, since it was more or less just based on iPad A12Z where external displays is not a priority.
It appears that the M4 has matured. The iPad Pro did not appear to be wearing adult attire when it was introduced.
 

chriscl

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2008
505
359
Stuttgart, Germany
I just want to be able to output to two external monitors and the laptop screen; you know, as in the typical corporate environment, like every other operating system on the planet has actually been able to do for the last fifteen years, without having to either carry a bunch of dongles around or having to make usability compromises or having to buy an extra keyboard and trackpad (and carry them round everywhere).

It’s not too much to ask.

And for the love of God, USB-C MST SUPPORT APPLE!
 

scm123

macrumors newbie
Nov 13, 2020
9
17
This whole thing is utterly confusing. As I write this on my 14" M1 MacBook Pro....I have two external displays running and my lid open. Is it just a resolution issue?
 
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jicon

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2004
858
705
Toronto, ON
It requires actual space on the chip for dedicated display engines, which was at a premium for M1/2/3. Apple took feedback and is willing to add more of them, but as usual with chip design, it took years to realize.
Surely there'd be Apple employees jumping up and down complaining a laptop with a Pro label was limited to one external display during machine development of the M1. If it comes to fruition this year... about time.
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,984
8,407
It says TB4 right on the box. If the box isn’t fake then that means the M4 MacBook Pro got a display support upgrade.
...or that, this time round, Apple managed to get "2 displays in clamshell mode" certified as Thunderbolt 4. I think you're probably right and its going to proper 3-display support - I'm just pointing out that nothing is 100% certain.

A more interesting is what the specs of the M4 Pro and Max chips are going to be given that the base M4 seems to have M3 Pro-level I/O and display support.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,664
12,593
...or that, this time round, Apple managed to get "2 displays in clamshell mode" certified as Thunderbolt 4. I think you're probably right and it’s going to proper 3-display support - I'm just pointing out that nothing is 100% certain.
If they didn’t get 2 displays in clamshell mode certified as TB4 for M3, they wouldn’t get that for M4 either. OTOH, M4 got both TB controller upgrades and display engine upgrades.


Its worth remembering that they had a limitation they themselves created early on. While they technically took feedback...they knew this was going to be an issue and didn't care about it. Now its a feature!
Yes, this was a limitation but then again, it was pretty niche. I don't think too many people in the real world actually cared that much, and the minority that did just bought Mx Pro if necessary. This is likely not about Apple listening to customers and adding it in after the fact. Much more likely was that they did the math and decided it made much more business sense to just add it later when the design and process node features made it easier and more cost effective to implement. ie. This was in the plan years ago. In retrospect, it makes sense they'd implement this in the same generation that they introduced the new display engine for tandem OLED in the iPad Pro, with an SoC that also has additional Thunderbolt controllers. See above.

BTW, I don't think they will even highlight this feature if it turns out to be true. All that will likely happen is that it will get mentioned in the tech specs. It probably won't even make it into the event keynote.
 
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Bearxor

macrumors 6502a
Jun 7, 2007
785
516
This whole thing is utterly confusing. As I write this on my 14" M1 MacBook Pro....I have two external displays running and my lid open. Is it just a resolution issue?
The original 14” MacBook Pro only offered M1 Pro and M1 Max chips - not base M1.
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,050
2,724
UK
I just want to be able to output to two external monitors and the laptop screen; you know, as in the typical corporate environment, like every other operating system on the planet has actually been able to do for the last fifteen years, without having to either carry a bunch of dongles around or having to make usability compromises or having to buy an extra keyboard and trackpad (and carry them round everywhere).

It’s not too much to ask.

And for the love of God, USB-C MST SUPPORT APPLE!
You've always been able to do that ;) Just buy the right version, just like with every other laptop architecture.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,050
2,724
UK
This whole thing is utterly confusing. As I write this on my 14" M1 MacBook Pro....I have two external displays running and my lid open. Is it just a resolution issue?
Not at all, your M1 chip was not the entry level. You could have always had it, just buy the one that supports it. But it seems there have been some people 'complaining' that cheaper entry level has less functionality. Funny that 🤣
 
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NufSaid

macrumors 6502
Oct 28, 2015
470
796
ÜT: 41.065573,-83.668801
Not allowing the lid to be open when prior macbook pro's could is the stupidest design decision. Also dropping ports on both sides and calling it pro is trash.

I am SO unhappy with the Macbook Pro M3 and if I didn't have to have it for work I would have waited. Can't wait to sell it and move on.
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,727
3,892
Isn't it a bad idea to connect a laptop 2 external monitors and use it as a desktop machine always plugged in? Surely the battery will act up and in this use case a desktop machine like Mac Studio is a better option.
 
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