BornAgainMac
macrumors 604
Dual-boot I think would be the wrong approach. Running Windows programs like running Classic programs on PPC Macs would be the right way to implement it.
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MacBook Pros in High Demand, Increased Mac Market Share?
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MrSmith
macrumors 68040
Surely technology has a natural tendency towards compatibility. Like all cars use the same petrol. Sure, all cars are different, as can all hardware be. But if they're running the same software, that must be better. Ah, but the problem is, Windows is crap, you say.. So Apple continues to make red-hot machines and writes its own, better, version of Windows (although it wouldn't be called that, of course). There, monopoly avoided. We have a choice of hardware and software - the ability to balance quality and budget, if you like - but everything works together. Just like, on a smaller scale, all machines can run Quicktime. I would still buy Mac products if they were better. And if they weren't, I wouldn't.
My version of the future...
My version of the future...
m-dogg said:
Because some apps run on Windows only? Because someone might actually prefer Windows (or some other OS for that matter) over Mac OS?
Macs need to run Windows APPS
I think some people are missing the point. In the real world those of us that love OS X still have to deal with clients and colleagues that run Windows applications. There are a lot of enterprises out there that have standardized on IE as their web browser and the entire Office suite + Project and Visio. The latter two apps in particular force the use of windows.
I don't believe there is a big demand for dual booting Windows on a mac. What I believe most people want is the ability to run a windows app as a window in OS X with the ability to copy and paste between those apps and their true OS X apps. Microsoft Office for OS X with Entourage provides 90% of the compatibility that is required in many companies.
What we need is a solution that virtualizes Windows inside OS X on the Intel platform, utilizing the underlying intel hardware to turbo charge the virtualization whereever possible. This will allow us to stay in OS X for 98% of what we do and run a virtualized windows applicaiton for the few things that absolutely require windows.
I think some people are missing the point. In the real world those of us that love OS X still have to deal with clients and colleagues that run Windows applications. There are a lot of enterprises out there that have standardized on IE as their web browser and the entire Office suite + Project and Visio. The latter two apps in particular force the use of windows.
I don't believe there is a big demand for dual booting Windows on a mac. What I believe most people want is the ability to run a windows app as a window in OS X with the ability to copy and paste between those apps and their true OS X apps. Microsoft Office for OS X with Entourage provides 90% of the compatibility that is required in many companies.
What we need is a solution that virtualizes Windows inside OS X on the Intel platform, utilizing the underlying intel hardware to turbo charge the virtualization whereever possible. This will allow us to stay in OS X for 98% of what we do and run a virtualized windows applicaiton for the few things that absolutely require windows.
Stella said:
This is so totally wrong. The only reason OS/2 lasted as long as it did was because it could run Windows. Nobody was buying OS/2 for OS/2 they bought it because it was a better Windows. If it didn't have that going for it, it's market share would have been even worse.
Apple is not in the same position. They already have a large (fanatical) user base, the big companies have already made the investment to support the platform.
If the Macs could dual boot, or at least run windows very well via VPC or something similar, I believe it will increase Mac development. If Apple can build a machine that runs windows, linux, and osx, it will be irresistable to developers and will become the machine of choice.
In my small little market, the Macs are considered second class citizens because of the smaller market share. As a small developer investing in that second platform is very expensive. I've actually made quite a bit of money off my competitors by porting their stuff to the Mac and taking a cut because I did invest the time and money. If the incremental cost was only a Windows license to set up dual booting on your Mac that drops the price radically.
I suspect it's only a matter of time before XP or Vista is up and running on a Mac, but I really think Apple did a stupid thing by making it as hard as it is. Personally my replacement cycle for laptops is about up. I will be ordering a new laptop in the next 4-6 weeks. If the MBP was dual booting Windows, it would have been one, but it looks like it won't be so I'm going for the similar Acer and buying the cheapest mini I can get to support my Mactel customers.
timswim78
macrumors 6502a
Macrumors said:
Piper Jaffray analysts are recommending shares of Apple Computer, citing high demand for the MacBook Pro:
Meanwhile, Needham & Co analysts believev that Apple has positioned itself for "massive growth in its market share".
Based on their online survey of college students, there has been a dramatic increase in possible switching from the Windows to Mac platform. One of the hurdles, appears the ease of which Macs could run Windows. According to their survey, if Apple were to make it easy for Macs to run Windows the number of students purchasing a Mac would double (24.7% to 44% in the survey).
The potential ability for the new Intel Macs to run Windows has drawn a lot of attention and controversy amongst Mac users.
Of course demand is going to be high. It's currently the only Intel laptop that Apple offers.
d_and_n5000
macrumors 6502a
Great! More marketshare can only be a good thing(unless you get into security, but let's not go there😉). Now, if we can get a dual-boot Windows & Mac OS X, I may be able to convince my parents to get an iMac to replace this Dell😀.
Porchland
macrumors 65816
BornAgainMac said:
C'mon. Fastest growing maybe, but largest?
BTW, I feel guilty that I want a Mac that can switch to Microsoft XP/Vista -- and not in a buggy-and-slow-as-molassas-Virtual-PC sort of way -- at the touch of a button. Better yet, I'd rather like to bypass the OS altogether and have Microsoft XP/Vista apps run natively on my Mac.
Is that where this Intel switch is going? Windows-native apps on OS X?
AndyR
macrumors 6502a
I want a MacBook Pro but can't get one as I already have a G4 mini and and XP box. I only ever use the XP box for my MCSE Training stuff (work), MS Money and a couple of apps that are Windows only (my speed camera software).
If I could get a VirtualApp software whioch just let me run windows apps standalone I'll sell the lot and get myself a Macbook Pro in a heartbeat!
If I could get a VirtualApp software whioch just let me run windows apps standalone I'll sell the lot and get myself a Macbook Pro in a heartbeat!
MarketShare
I know this is no way a scientific survey of the people buying intel Macs, but everyone I personally know that has bought one which is quite a few has purchased them as their very first Mac. I'm sure the majority of them would love to run Windows in some way but they all switched because of OS X not just the stylish hardware as PC weenies would have you beleive.
While Windows does suck! Dual-booting is not optimal, but it would be fine to be able to run those very few programs that do not run on a Mac. I think being able to run Windows is fine as long as OS X is the default and is still developed at the rate it is now.
On another note I personally switched at college my sophmore year. Not that this is the reason I have switched but Apple has done a great job on campuses with Apple authorized resellers on most campuses, and huge support for Mac Users Groups on campuses around the country. Our MUG was huge, Apple regularly donated prizes like iPods and copies of OS X and other software to raffle off at events.
I know this is no way a scientific survey of the people buying intel Macs, but everyone I personally know that has bought one which is quite a few has purchased them as their very first Mac. I'm sure the majority of them would love to run Windows in some way but they all switched because of OS X not just the stylish hardware as PC weenies would have you beleive.
While Windows does suck! Dual-booting is not optimal, but it would be fine to be able to run those very few programs that do not run on a Mac. I think being able to run Windows is fine as long as OS X is the default and is still developed at the rate it is now.
On another note I personally switched at college my sophmore year. Not that this is the reason I have switched but Apple has done a great job on campuses with Apple authorized resellers on most campuses, and huge support for Mac Users Groups on campuses around the country. Our MUG was huge, Apple regularly donated prizes like iPods and copies of OS X and other software to raffle off at events.
Hot MacBook Pro
The MacBook Pro's performance is outstanding! I am not taking that away from it. However, I bought a "Mobile Computer" because I travel a lot.
I can't use the MBP as a Mobile Computer, How can I with the heat it produces?
I am wondering if the 7200RPM HDD in mine even makes it that much hotter?
How can someone feasable use it one an airplane without making the people next to you uncomfortable?
How can I use it anyhere other than on a desk?
Wouldn't that mean it has become more of a desktop?
Seriously, My G5 powermac dual 2.0 does not even produce this much heat when I compile things for hours!
People, be objective. I am impressed with the amazing performance of the MBP, but seriously, wait and see what happens when these machines are out for awhile. The heat is going to cause major probems.
Also, many people are experiencing odd noises, and sensor failures already... I am just trying to let people know this so they can evaluate whether the MBP is for them or now. Quite frankly, if you are looking for a 'laptop' computer, the MBP is not for you. It is too hot to put on your lap. heh.
The MacBook Pro's performance is outstanding! I am not taking that away from it. However, I bought a "Mobile Computer" because I travel a lot.
I can't use the MBP as a Mobile Computer, How can I with the heat it produces?
I am wondering if the 7200RPM HDD in mine even makes it that much hotter?
How can someone feasable use it one an airplane without making the people next to you uncomfortable?
How can I use it anyhere other than on a desk?
Wouldn't that mean it has become more of a desktop?
Seriously, My G5 powermac dual 2.0 does not even produce this much heat when I compile things for hours!
People, be objective. I am impressed with the amazing performance of the MBP, but seriously, wait and see what happens when these machines are out for awhile. The heat is going to cause major probems.
Also, many people are experiencing odd noises, and sensor failures already... I am just trying to let people know this so they can evaluate whether the MBP is for them or now. Quite frankly, if you are looking for a 'laptop' computer, the MBP is not for you. It is too hot to put on your lap. heh.
timswim78
macrumors 6502a
I can say from experience that dual booting is not the preferred method of running multiple operating systems, in my opinion. If you want to or need to run more than one OS, it is better to have more than multiple computers, preferrably one computer for each OS, hooked up to a KVM switch.
Here are a few reasons that I don't like to dual boot:
- Sharing files can be a pain. It's very difficult to setup disk space that can be accessed (read and write) by different OS's on one computer. It is much easier and more reliable to share files between two computers over a network.
- It can be painfully slow to switch back and forth. If you need one OS for one application and another OS for another application, you don't want to have to wait for one OS to shutdown and another one to startup every time that you need an application.
- Dual booting can cripple your workflow. For example, if you are doing some video stuff that takes hours on a Mac, you don't want to have to wait for Final Cut Pro to finish that stuff so that you can boot up Windows to run your mapping software. Instead, you want to be able to switch to Windows and fire up ArcGIS right away.
- Backing up and restoring OS's can be a pain in a dual boot system. If you decide to reinstall or upgrade OS X or Windows, the paritioning and bootloader situations can get hairy, in a hurry.
Here are a few reasons that I don't like to dual boot:
- Sharing files can be a pain. It's very difficult to setup disk space that can be accessed (read and write) by different OS's on one computer. It is much easier and more reliable to share files between two computers over a network.
- It can be painfully slow to switch back and forth. If you need one OS for one application and another OS for another application, you don't want to have to wait for one OS to shutdown and another one to startup every time that you need an application.
- Dual booting can cripple your workflow. For example, if you are doing some video stuff that takes hours on a Mac, you don't want to have to wait for Final Cut Pro to finish that stuff so that you can boot up Windows to run your mapping software. Instead, you want to be able to switch to Windows and fire up ArcGIS right away.
- Backing up and restoring OS's can be a pain in a dual boot system. If you decide to reinstall or upgrade OS X or Windows, the paritioning and bootloader situations can get hairy, in a hurry.
I am eagerly waiting for a laptop that I can use to boot up Windows.
I don't like using Windows (surprise!), but I go to a law school that uses exam taking software that only works on a true Windows system.
It won't do for me to be able to emulate Windows, a la Virtual PC or Classic, because the software has to be able to reboot the machine and prevent you from using anything besides its word processor for the test.
They don't want us to be able to look at our notes or to IM each other during the test.
So, I have to find a PC to use for 2 weeks every semester. It's a real pain.
I don't like using Windows (surprise!), but I go to a law school that uses exam taking software that only works on a true Windows system.
It won't do for me to be able to emulate Windows, a la Virtual PC or Classic, because the software has to be able to reboot the machine and prevent you from using anything besides its word processor for the test.
They don't want us to be able to look at our notes or to IM each other during the test.
So, I have to find a PC to use for 2 weeks every semester. It's a real pain.
kretzy
macrumors 604
Excellent news for Apple methinks. 🙂
I am a bit concerned about the many heat issues people are having with their MBPs. I was seriously considering getting one, but this makes me want to see if there will be any improvements in the Rev B. I think they should have left the cooling grills on the side - they weren't too obstructive, and yet managed to keep things a bit cooler.
I am a bit concerned about the many heat issues people are having with their MBPs. I was seriously considering getting one, but this makes me want to see if there will be any improvements in the Rev B. I think they should have left the cooling grills on the side - they weren't too obstructive, and yet managed to keep things a bit cooler.
MacAficionado said:
Because some of us require Windows for work!!! I don't want to have to go out and buy 2 machines... one for home and one for work. As it is now, I have a work laptop in addition to the 2 my household has. I don't need or want that extra laptop because it just gets in the way.
It would be much more convenient to have a single machine to do everything. If that means dual booting, so be it.... although I would prefer something like Rosetta that would run the apps at a reasonable speed, but certainly not as fast as a full native app. That would still give software companies reason to port their apps to OS X and it would allow people who are forced to use Windows to switch to Mac and OS X now.
Qemu
Has anyone tried running Windows XP or 2000 with QEMU on a Mactel machine? I have it on my Powerbook G4... the boot seems about as fast as VPC 7, but in converting my VPC 7 Win2000 VM to QEMU's format, it crashes when booting. I haven't had time yet to recreate a QEMU VM for Win2000 from scratch, yet.
I would be interested to see how QEMU runs on Mactel... w/o needing to emulate the CPU's instructions set and since the machines are inherently faster than the older G4s, I would think Windows running in QEMU might provide a viable alternative for those who want to dual boot.
Has anyone tried running Windows XP or 2000 with QEMU on a Mactel machine? I have it on my Powerbook G4... the boot seems about as fast as VPC 7, but in converting my VPC 7 Win2000 VM to QEMU's format, it crashes when booting. I haven't had time yet to recreate a QEMU VM for Win2000 from scratch, yet.
I would be interested to see how QEMU runs on Mactel... w/o needing to emulate the CPU's instructions set and since the machines are inherently faster than the older G4s, I would think Windows running in QEMU might provide a viable alternative for those who want to dual boot.
bigandy
macrumors G3
budward said:
on what grounds? i'm sure that's all that's needed is another class action lawsuit on completely stupid grounds. yes, a laptop with a fast processor will get hot. yes, an ipod will get scratched. it's called logic.
it's like people that have taken legal action against cigarette companies after contracting health issues (cancer/whatever), because they've not adequately warned them, DESPITE the HUGE notice on the front of the packet saying "SMOKING CAUSES CANCER", "SMOKING KILLS" or something similar.
only in america. 🙄
you know what? there's a thing called consumer rights. if you're unhappy with a product you have a right to return it. apple won't deny you that. mentioning lawsuits because something gets hot (come on, ovens can get really hot too, but nobody complains through the courts about them) is just naive.