MacBook Review Roundup: Major Design Appeal, but Too Many Key Compromises

[antonis]

Oh, client site.... I would never allow you to connect to an internal network in that case.... surprised many places allow it. If anyone were caught doing that they would be escorted from the building and never allowed to return.

Guess you've never been witnessed the creation of a data center by certified engineers, then. But I'm getting out of the scope of this discussion. The point is that wired connectivity and external devices are not as dead as apple wants you to believe. There's no such thing like "Facebook laptops".

 

[bkkcanuck]

Guess you've never been witnessed the creation of a data center by certified engineers, then. But I'm getting out of the scope of this discussion. The point is that wired connectivity and external devices are not as dead as apple wants you to believe. There's no such thing like "Facebook laptops".

You're right we are off topic a bit. You're right about wired networks not being dead. My home network (internal) is wired (enterprise class; don't trust home firewall/routers), the wireless router is in the DMZ (and only used when I want to use wifi for my iPhone or iPad -> internet). I don't think I have yet run into a business (financial software development; banking/brokerage) that runs their internal network as a wireless since by it's very nature it is less secure.

 

[numlock]

For all the naysayers about the MBA, I have lost count of how many times these last 2 months when a new light laptop comes out it is sold and reviewed as a "macbook air killer". If it were a failure, it would not always be used as the measuring stick.

what has that in any way got to do with the fact that they made a mistake with the original mba design and rectified that in a later revision? the post you quoted didnt say failure so i dont know where you are getting that from.

When you take the lead it sometimes takes a few generations for customers to see how it fits into their usecase. The original iPod, iPhone, iPad were not smash hits when they were first introduced.... but each of them were successes.

that wasnt really the case with any of those products. the ipod got windows support. the iphone changed its lineup and lowered its price and started adding sorely missed features. the ipad did rather well from the start.

as far as using the delivery estimate as a barometer of success. who in their right mind does that without having at least a rough idea on the supply levels?

 

[bkkcanuck]

as far as using the delivery estimate as a barometer of success. who in their right mind does that without having at least a rough idea on the supply levels?

We do have a rough idea on the supply levels. The original estimates for the first quarter are 450,000 units (supply constrained; which may be adjusted down depending on supply of 12-inch display panels). So roughly speaking averaging about 150,000 / month. Of course they would have ramped up production of laptops before the actual launch, but according to delivery estimates of 4 - 6 weeks in the future (leaving one month for producing the rest of the "supply"). Conservatively speaking I think it would be safe to estimate the number sold to be closing in on 200,000 in the first few days. We do have enough numbers to draw some conclusions on the Macbook.... unfortunately we have really nothing on how much supply they planned on the watch (I would expect they would hold back on production more for a totally new form).

 

[subsonix]

I am not being facetious. Each release had incremental releases but already by the end of the 70s and early 80s (Xenix was 80, BSD was around that time) it had all the services needed to be a fully multi-user, multi-tasking, operating system with drivers for hardware that was pretty bleeding edge (early CrayMP computers used a customized UNIX until they created their own proprietary operating system). It had network stacks, it had disk drivers.... It might not have had drivers for the million different devices that have come and gone since then.... but then those are only drivers. You could write C code and compile it (then C++). In fact it had a lot of stuff in it that Apple failed in trying to add to their obsolete OS 9 - the reason why they had to go out and buy NeXT in order to survive (started in 1985ish) which took UNIX/BSD as it's starting point and put a UI on top of it.

Someone above mentioned how it did not have HFS and IO KIt and all that stuff was added after the fact. HFS is just a glorified (and archaic) B-Tree directory system for hard drives (hmmm... yes, those did not exist back then). IO Kit was just a framework for writing drivers.

So what, the point was to identify to what degree OS X is BSD with a GUI. It really is quite different from BSD, it has a definite BSD flavor but a lot of things has been added if you actually look at it. I mean with your description, Windows 10 is basically DOS 1.0, and Windows is basically Unix.

 

[bkkcanuck]

So what, the point was to identify to what degree OS X is BSD with a GUI. It really is quite different from BSD, it has a definite BSD flavor but a lot of things has been added if you actually look at it. I mean with your description, Windows 10 is basically DOS 1.0, and Windows is basically Unix.

Now you're being facetious, a "disk operating system" (that is pretty well all that was abstracted) with no support of directories or hard drives != Windows.... in the same way that Mac OS != Mac OS X. NeXT OS == Mac OS X. Don't know the lineage of Windows exactly, but I would expect Windows 7 root is Windows NT.

 

[subsonix]

Now you're being facetious, a "disk operating system" (that is pretty well all that was abstracted) with no support of directories != Windows.... in the same way that Mac OS != Mac OS X. NeXT OS == Mac OS X. Don't know the lineage of Windows exactly, but I would expect Windows 7 root is Windows NT.

Yeah but it supports many of the same functions, which was your previous definition of "same". And I believe there's still support for old DOS headers today, you can still use stuff like getch and so on. And yes, I think this comparison is more far fetched.

 

[Narcaz]

It is my gripe as well.... I hate when I cannot tell manufacturers resellers what I want to pay for a device instead of the other way around

Paying $130 more for a retina screen is just insane.....
+ Macbook Air $899
+ 4GB memory upgrade to 8GB $100
+ 128GB Flash upgrade to 256GB $200
= Core M CPU vs i5 -$30

means that the retina screen is costing you $130 over a normal screen.... If it were me I would just walk in the store and rip out the retina screen and demand $130 back

The only problem is right now they are selling like hotcakes and you have to wait 4 - 6 weeks at least to find one to rip the screen out of.....

This is just another naive fallacy. According to your earlier post the target probably doesn't need the extra RAM/SSD for their light tasks. So it is another attempt to justify Apple's overpriced upselling marketing strategy. And to continue you argumentation in favor of Apple you conveniently ignore that trade off between a MBA and rMB is not only the i5 processor. But i think you post wasn't really about objectivity...

We do have a rough idea on the supply levels. The original estimates for the first quarter are 450,000 units (supply constrained; which may be adjusted down depending on supply of 12-inch display panels). So roughly speaking averaging about 150,000 / month. Of course they would have ramped up production of laptops before the actual launch, but according to delivery estimates of 4 - 6 weeks in the future (leaving one month for producing the rest of the "supply"). Conservatively speaking I think it would be safe to estimate the number sold to be closing in on 200,000 in the first few days. We do have enough numbers to draw some conclusions on the Macbook.... unfortunately we have really nothing on how much supply they planned on the watch (I would expect they would hold back on production more for a totally new form).

Where do you get your rough idea of supply levels from? I couldn't find anything besides the questionable sales forecast from Ming Chi Kuo. And Kuo said before that the 12 rMB could cost less than current Apple notebooks. And we all know how that turned out. No way a 300-500$ price difference could influence such a sales forecast.

Outside US the delivery estimates went to 4-6 weeks two minutes after the release in the online store. Most Apple Store don't have a product to show. Either the rMB is selling like hotcakes or it suffers from severe supply constraints.

 

[bkkcanuck]

Outside US the delivery estimates went to 4-6 weeks two minutes after the release in the online store. Most Apple Store don't have a product to show. Either the rMB is selling like hotcakes or it suffers from severe supply constraints.

The inside the US estimates are key, outside the US estimates on delivery can just indicate that based on sales volumes that they are reserving supply for the most important market the US. Once the US estimates change - it pretty well guarantees everything worldwide is no better.

The supply in the US store went out of gold 1.2 within a few hours (went from 1-3 days to 3-4), followed by gold 1.1, then the supply of the grey ones (1.2 first). Supply of the 1.1 and all silvers remained at 1-3 days for the first day. The total supply of grey then moved to 3-4 weeks, followed by silver shortly afterwards. It is obvious that there is more of a backlog on gold ones which will have to be rebalanced going forward. I went to sleep and when I woke up all the supply had moved to 4 - 6 weeks (if it were 4 they would not have adjusted from 3 - 4 to 4 - 6).... so above 4 and up to 6 weeks.... sales have not stopped it is still the first few days. It is highly unlikely that Apple just started production on the order date, but at least starting on launch date or there-abouts to start building an initial supply. Apple often does not have product in the store in the morning when it comes to new Macbook launches, though they typically do have models on display in the afternoon. That did not happen this time - and there are many guesses on why...

Where do you get your rough idea of supply levels from? I couldn't find anything besides the questionable sales forecast from Ming Chi Kuo. And Kuo said before that the 12 rMB could cost less than current Apple notebooks. And we all know how that turned out. No way a 300-500$ price difference could influence such a sales forecast.

That analyst (and a few others) have a good record based on the fact that they actually research. Of course they do not get that information through channels at Apple, but there are ways around that.... i.e. contacting sources in the supply chain itself and figuring out how many of each component have been manufactured, than figuring out where the weakest links are. Once you add all that together you can come up with ballpark estimates of what the maximum supply chain capacity is. Is there chances of errors, but these reports are not based on people sitting at their desk making random guesses. Apple does not give out guidance on numbers but these estimates always seem to be fairly close to the mark....

This is just another naive fallacy. According to your earlier post the target probably doesn't need the extra RAM/SSD for their light tasks. So it is another attempt to justify Apple's overpriced upselling marketing strategy. And to continue you argumentation in favor of Apple you conveniently ignore that trade off between a MBA and rMB is not only the i5 processor. But i think you post wasn't really about objectivity...

All business comes down to supply and demand. If Apple did not have enough supply for the demand, it would be bloody stupid to launch the low end of the line (the 4GB/128GB) model at the same time (it sells more of something that nets you a loss in revenue if you split sales on lower priced models when you don't even have the supply to ship the high end of it. Apple is definitely not a stupid business.

 

[numlock]

We do have a rough idea on the supply levels. The original estimates for the first quarter are 450,000 units (supply constrained; which may be adjusted down depending on supply of 12-inch display panels). So roughly speaking averaging about 150,000 / month. Of course they would have ramped up production of laptops before the actual launch, but according to delivery estimates of 4 - 6 weeks in the future (leaving one month for producing the rest of the "supply"). Conservatively speaking I think it would be safe to estimate the number sold to be closing in on 200,000 in the first few days. We do have enough numbers to draw some conclusions on the Macbook.... unfortunately we have really nothing on how much supply they planned on the watch (I would expect they would hold back on production more for a totally new form).

then tell me how the supply is split between the different keyboard layouts and colors?

you are insanely eager to prove a point based on very little information that you actually have on a computer that was launched a month ago and went on sale a few days ago. added to that the only barometer you have is delivery estimate on the website(s).

that of course is dismissing the incorrect comparisons and analogies.

 

[bkkcanuck]

then tell me how the supply is split between the different keyboard layouts and colors?

you are insanely eager to prove a point based on very little information that you actually have on a computer that was launched a month ago and went on sale a few days ago. added to that the only barometer you have is delivery estimate on the website(s).

that of course is dismissing the incorrect comparisons and analogies.

Colours were an unknown - so it was hard to judge until they all went to the same state - 4 to 6 weeks. We don't know the volume of which colour and we don't have to since the average of x + x + x / 3 is x.... magic

As far as keyboards, they would be allocated based on historical sales in each country. Keyboard lettering for the most part is superficial and the caps would easy to adjust... but even if they weren't .... past performance by country is going to determine future performance. Unlike the iPhone, Apple computer sales are much more slanted towards being more popular in the US and thus less popular in all other countries. Apple computer sales in the US far outstrip any computer sales elsewhere.

US is still key - far more than for computer sales.

 

[numlock]

Colours were an unknown - so it was hard to judge until they all went to the same state - 4 to 6 weeks. We don't know the volume of which colour and we don't have to since the average of x + x + x / 3 is x.... magic

As far as keyboards, they would be allocated based on historical sales in each country. Keyboard lettering for the most part is superficial and the caps would easy to adjust... but even if they weren't .... past performance by country is going to determine future performance. Unlike the iPhone, Apple computer sales are much more slanted towards being more popular in the US and thus less popular in all other countries. Apple computer sales in the US far outstrip any computer sales elsewhere.

US is still key - far more than for computer sales.

of course past performances affect they keyboard layout in this machine but do you know how to take that into account when reading vague supply numbers and delivery time estimates?

i just think trying to prove people wrong after a few days with very unclear info is overeagerness to a fault. if its a raging success and every other laptop out there copies it and 1 port will even be deemed to be excessive it will be there for all to see.

 

[Münchener]

This is not a MacBook Pro, or a MacBook Air, it's a MacBook Starbucks.

You will see a few of these overpriced beauties in each and every decent coffee shop in the world.

 

[26139]

Yeah!

This is not a MacBook Pro, or a MacBook Air, it's a MacBook Starbucks.

You will see a few of these overpriced beauties in each and every decent coffee shop in the world.

Yeah, ******* those people enjoying their new computers at Starbucks while they Facebook or type!

They should feel horrible about themselves when people like you and me sit down next to them, with our "monster" 13-15" screens, REAL USB ports, and SD card drives!

We should absolutely ridicule anyone who isn't exactly like us.

WTF is wrong with buying a machine that's good for typing/Facebooking at a coffee shop? Don't you realize the vast majority of computer users aren't like us on Macrumors?

Just yesterday I saw a dude with a 6+. Since that's different than the 6 I have, I should make him feel like **** for spending MORE money than I did on a phone that's OBVIOUSLY too big for anyone!

 

[newellj]

This is not a MacBook Pro, or a MacBook Air, it's a MacBook Starbucks.

You will see a few of these overpriced beauties in each and every decent coffee shop in the world.

Ahhhh, I have been so confused. Your post cleared everything up. Thanks for the learned insights.

 

[vampyren]

Such a shame, so much money wasted on making this laptop! All Apple had to do was to replace the screen on Air. Mission accomplished! At most they could also add this USB-C port and maybe upgraded the CPU on the air. All would be would. People would be happy and Apple would sell **** loads of the new Air.
This new macbook makes way to many compromises and offer very little. Air is already thin and light so not sure why anyone would get this over the Air. Ok the screen is nicer but thats just it.

 

[26139]

Such a shame, so much money wasted on making this laptop! All Apple had to do was to replace the screen on Air. Mission accomplished! At most they could also add this USB-C port and maybe upgraded the CPU on the air. All would be would. People would be happy and Apple would sell **** loads of the new Air.
This new macbook makes way to many compromises and offer very little. Air is already thin and light so not sure why anyone would get this over the Air. Ok the screen is nicer but thats just it.

Totally correct, as adding a retina screen and more ports on a super-thin computer is super easy and shouldn't take any effort at all!

 

[Münchener]

Ahhhh, I have been so confused. Your post cleared everything up. Thanks for the learned insights.

I can recommend an app for you: iHumor. If you dare, there's also iSarcasm.

Cheers!

----------

Yeah, ******* those people enjoying their new computers at Starbucks while they Facebook or type!

They should feel horrible about themselves when people like you and me sit down next to them, with our "monster" 13-15" screens, REAL USB ports, and SD card drives!

We should absolutely ridicule anyone who isn't exactly like us.

WTF is wrong with buying a machine that's good for typing/Facebooking at a coffee shop? Don't you realize the vast majority of computer users aren't like us on Macrumors?

Just yesterday I saw a dude with a 6+. Since that's different than the 6 I have, I should make him feel like **** for spending MORE money than I did on a phone that's OBVIOUSLY too big for anyone!

As I wrote to a fellow MacRumorer, search the Appstore for iHumor, and please download it ASAP.

Cheers!

 

[jcmeyer5]

For all the naysayers about the MBA, I have lost count of how many times these last 2 months when a new light laptop comes out it is sold and reviewed as a "macbook air killer".

Not what I meant. Of course the Air was successful, and the MacBook will likely be too, but they should have made the obvious v2 changes with the v1... like they didn't do with the Air. I don't like this "v1 will be what Apple wants and V2 might incorporate customer wants/needs." Maybe its just me

 

[AppleCommander]

It is pretty much an ultra expensive netbook.

----------

Price for the multi-port dongle that I just bought for my Dell XPS 13 was $75.00 from Dell.

Now, to be honest, that was list price. I decided to buy the bundle that also included their new power pack. So with the two bundled and several discounts applied I think it was $125 for both.

So how much is the dongle for the new MacBook?

The more I look at the new MacBook, the more I think it should be viewed as an iPhone accessory rather than a personal computer.

I realize it is a rather expensive accessory, but it seems primarily designed to do things that are extremely difficult to do on the iPhone's screen and virtual keyboard.

I see a lot of people complain about the price and I understand the new MacBook is expensive. But I really don't think it is any different than comparable Windows devices.

My Dell XPS 13 is a very nice device. But as I use it, it becomes apparent to me where Dell skimped on quality. For example, the rear corners of the top come to sharp edges that catch on my computer sleeve as I try to put it away. On the other hand, by father's MacBook Air fits together perfectly in that area with no sharp edges.

With Apple, you pay a lot. But you also get a lot.

That depends. The special thing about Apple is OSX and aesthetics. For half the price, you can buy a Windows based laptop with the same or better hardware.

----------

Yeah, ******* those people enjoying their new computers at Starbucks while they Facebook or type!

They should feel horrible about themselves when people like you and me sit down next to them, with our "monster" 13-15" screens, REAL USB ports, and SD card drives!

We should absolutely ridicule anyone who isn't exactly like us.

WTF is wrong with buying a machine that's good for typing/Facebooking at a coffee shop? Don't you realize the vast majority of computer users aren't like us on Macrumors?

Just yesterday I saw a dude with a 6+. Since that's different than the 6 I have, I should make him feel like **** for spending MORE money than I did on a phone that's OBVIOUSLY too big for anyone!

There already are devices out there suited for facebook and other browsing. What Apple put out now with this new Macbook is crap.

----------

Yeah, ******* those people enjoying their new computers at Starbucks while they Facebook or type!

They should feel horrible about themselves when people like you and me sit down next to them, with our "monster" 13-15" screens, REAL USB ports, and SD card drives!

We should absolutely ridicule anyone who isn't exactly like us.

WTF is wrong with buying a machine that's good for typing/Facebooking at a coffee shop? Don't you realize the vast majority of computer users aren't like us on Macrumors?

Just yesterday I saw a dude with a 6+. Since that's different than the 6 I have, I should make him feel like **** for spending MORE money than I did on a phone that's OBVIOUSLY too big for anyone!

There already are devices out there suited for facebook and other browsing. What Apple put out now with this new Macbook is pretty crappy.

 

[Münchener]

It is pretty much an ultra expensive netbook.

----------

Please, mention ANY available netbook with these specs, build quality, aesthetics and functionality, while being well into the non-expensive territory.
Thanks!

 

[SkyBell]

Imagine how much confusion that would cause.

I suppose about as much as when they re-branded the original aluminum MacBoook the Pro.

 

[atechfan]

$1400 and it's got no touch screen?


BIG FAIL.

----------

This is not a MacBook Pro, or a MacBook Air, it's a MacBook Starbucks.

You will see a few of these overpriced beauties in each and every decent coffee shop in the world.

Couldn't agree more.

I will snicker next time I see one of those sucker hipsters pretending they do serious and important work on this fashion accessory with Apple watch on their wrist at my local Starbucks.

 

[ZCT]

$1400 and it's got no touch screen?


BIG FAIL.

At the risk of feeding the troll, why do I want a touch screen?

My fingers are on the keyboard, I can make a quick gesture on my track pad to select the things I want. But instead I am supposed to rub my hands all over the screen, and then wonder why I have to wipe fingerprints off my screen every five minutes?

Microsoft tried very hard to make the case for a touch screen interface with Windows 8. It bombed so badly, they had to hastily redesign it to fix it. It's the biggest fiasco since Windows Vista or Windows ME. In fact they were so embarrassed by that turd of an OS they skipped right past 9 and called their latest OS Windows 10!

And you think that is the lead we should follow into this brave new world where we constantly wipe our fingers on the screen of our laptops for no good reason?

I agree with you that for me Apple went all after the thin and light and made too many compromises, like the lack of ports. So for a tiny notebook, it seems a little pricey. But I don't agree the fact that I can't rub my fingers all over the screen as a user interface isn't the problem.

 

[dec.]

This is not a MacBook Pro, or a MacBook Air, it's a MacBook Starbucks.

You will see a few of these overpriced beauties in each and every decent coffee shop in the world.

If people are happy with them, why not?

----------

$1400 and it's got no touch screen?


BIG FAIL.

----------



Couldn't agree more.

I will snicker next time I see one of those sucker hipsters pretending they do serious and important work on this fashion accessory with Apple watch on their wrist at my local Starbucks.

Didn't hipsters jump onto the MS surface bandwagon?