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MacBooks ARE better for the price... (Help with ideas)
- Thread starter Ryuukumori
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- They're cooler
That actually made me laugh so loudly the people sitting next to me are like wtf?Again this is why people get upset with you. You assume you are always right and everyone else is wrong and doesn't know what they are doing. My Express reader broke and in BOTH cases it was poor solder connections. I was going to have it fixed, but I didn't see it was worth paying the money to fix it. I was going to fix it myself, but I really did care and since I got a free express reader from work, I saw no point in fixing it.
And it's amazing how most of the garbage I read what you write is all opinion of "your" experience. I NEVER heard anyone who had as many problems with you as you do with Apple... I wonder if the problem is the person sitting on the chair?
The ONLY question I have for you is... where is this on HP's website? I don't see it. I'm not going to attack your opinion on HP, I just want to see where it is. What model, what configurations, any online coupons used, etc.
And to everyone else:
This isn't a Mac vs. PC thread. I apologize for mentioning PCs on the OP, but it's only because I have used them. On MBs, you still can't change the RAM without removing the frame either.
So in the end, let's drop the idea of this comparison, and move solely on why premiums on Macs are so reputable for some GOOD things that are overlooked.
.
So in the end, let's drop the idea of this comparison, and move solely on why premiums on Macs are so reputable for some GOOD things that are overlooked.
Like Keyboards that light up!
This is why I hate PC vs MAC price discussions, people constantly compares a 13.3" laptop with 15.4" PC's. The formfactor has A HUUUGE deal on the price, how can you not understand this?
The 13.3" macbook is one of the cheapest 13" laptops out there. And yes, the dell 13.3" XPS is 70 dollar cheaper than the macbook. Look at a 13" vaio, the price is 200 ++ dollars more than a macbook with the same spec.
I'm not saying apple has a great build quality but c'on when 1/5 people buying a dell XPS where the logo is about falling of, and the screen isn't centered. I could not even get my USB cable in the freaking usbport because the "chassi" was to tight. -CPU whine and fan controlling that sucks (30 minutes of total silence then the fans kicks in @ highest RPM for 10 min to cool things of) Yeaah great. And you get all this with worlds greatest OS -> VISTA. Oh did i mention? it's in plastic. Seriously, IF you've ever had a XPS 13.3 and a macbook 13.3 aluminium side by side, you would think the price would diff more than just 70 dollars.
- They're cooler
Very True.
You Look much cooler in a coffee shop with a mac rather than a big ugly Sony Laptop
Agreed magsafe is a small but important item that sets MB's apart.
Enough can not be said about the difference between Windows Vista and OS X. The former is amazingly frustrating. I have both OS's one residing in a Dell and I really have tried to be balanced in my opinions to friends and colleagues but it is not easy. The experience of the OS on the Apple side is so superior, just from the lack of nagging issues, whether they be wireless issues, Bluetooth issues or security issues.
Enough can not be said about the difference between Windows Vista and OS X. The former is amazingly frustrating. I have both OS's one residing in a Dell and I really have tried to be balanced in my opinions to friends and colleagues but it is not easy. The experience of the OS on the Apple side is so superior, just from the lack of nagging issues, whether they be wireless issues, Bluetooth issues or security issues.
I'm sitting here reading this and laughing my butt off
Do the Dell's even come in a box? I had a 12.1 Dell XPS and it was the biggest train wreck of a computer. I love the fan part. so true!!!!!!And the solid ally cases exhibit no Flecks ( of splintering plastic) like the Whitebooks.........
I bought a 14.1" Acer laptop back in August that carried me through this past Fall semester just fine. It has Vista Home Premium on it, and gave me not a bit of problems. However, literally 2 days after I bought it, my boss wanted me to get to work on iPhone programming so I've been in the market for a MacBook. I already have a Mac Mini which I had already been using for some work, but I needed portability.
Anyway, that Acer laptop gave me no issues at all, and anybody who says that Vista is slow, a resource hog, insecure, etc. is really just showing their bias. Vista is just as good an OS as OSX is. Incidentally, during that time my Mac Mini was taken over by someone temporarily, so quit pretending its secure. I had DMZ'd the Mini on my router so I could see how usable VNC would be from campus. I was using the Vine VNC server with a password, but APPARENTLY OSX also had a port open, without a password, and some joker jumped on my Mac Mini and was trying to change my password. I was fortunate enough to just happen to fire up VNC Viewer and see it happening.
PC vs. Mac arguments, especially on a Mac-only forum is a silly waste of time, but at least be honest about the differences.
I still have not got a MacBook, mainly because the price is too darn high. The base MB is twice what I paid for that Acer laptop, which is at least as good in specs as the current WhiteBook. OSX isn't $500 better than Vista. And the case on my Acer doesn't have any freakin' cracks, either.
Anyway, that Acer laptop gave me no issues at all, and anybody who says that Vista is slow, a resource hog, insecure, etc. is really just showing their bias. Vista is just as good an OS as OSX is. Incidentally, during that time my Mac Mini was taken over by someone temporarily, so quit pretending its secure. I had DMZ'd the Mini on my router so I could see how usable VNC would be from campus. I was using the Vine VNC server with a password, but APPARENTLY OSX also had a port open, without a password, and some joker jumped on my Mac Mini and was trying to change my password. I was fortunate enough to just happen to fire up VNC Viewer and see it happening.
PC vs. Mac arguments, especially on a Mac-only forum is a silly waste of time, but at least be honest about the differences.
I still have not got a MacBook, mainly because the price is too darn high. The base MB is twice what I paid for that Acer laptop, which is at least as good in specs as the current WhiteBook. OSX isn't $500 better than Vista. And the case on my Acer doesn't have any freakin' cracks, either.
I bought a 14.1" Acer laptop back in August that carried me through this past Fall semester just fine. It has Vista Home Premium on it, and gave me not a bit of problems. However, literally 2 days after I bought it, my boss wanted me to get to work on iPhone programming so I've been in the market for a MacBook. I already have a Mac Mini which I had already been using for some work, but I needed portability.
Anyway, that Acer laptop gave me no issues at all, and anybody who says that Vista is slow, a resource hog, insecure, etc. is really just showing their bias. Vista is just as good an OS as OSX is. Incidentally, during that time my Mac Mini was taken over by someone temporarily, so quit pretending its secure. I had DMZ'd the Mini on my router so I could see how usable VNC would be from campus. I was using the Vine VNC server with a password, but APPARENTLY OSX also had a port open, without a password, and some joker jumped on my Mac Mini and was trying to change my password. I was fortunate enough to just happen to fire up VNC Viewer and see it happening.
PC vs. Mac arguments, especially on a Mac-only forum is a silly waste of time, but at least be honest about the differences.
I still have not got a MacBook, mainly because the price is too darn high. The base MB is twice what I paid for that Acer laptop, which is at least as good in specs as the current WhiteBook. OSX isn't $500 better than Vista. And the case on my Acer doesn't have any freakin' cracks, either.
I think a lot of people here are cross platform folks so its kosher. I have a Sony Vaio Z which I adore as much as my little Alu Macbook book for different reasons I love my Macs. Vista never really gave me any problems as well.
Guys, I think it is unfair to compare a premium laptop like the Macbook to cheapo notebook PCs. Even if the macbook is considered "low end" by Apple users.
Let me take a stab at answering your question since almost everyone else has forgotten about it. Also, since this appears to be an attempt at convincing your parents, I have tailored my answers accordingly...
Reasons to go Mac:
- Stable/Secure OS that will run under old hardware (unlike MS). It WILL last 4 years
- Time Machine (easy backups for homework)
- Better build quality (case, keyboard, screen, internal assembly, etc.) - fewer repairs, longer lasting, better resale value
- Thinnest/lightest notebook in its class (important for trips to the library)
- Environmentally responsible
Most importantly, don't pretend that Macs are a better 'value' than a PC. The truth is, all Apple computers come with a premium. It's best to acknowledge this fact, but then provide a reasoned argument for why you think that slight premium is worth it. If you can show your parents that you've done the research and made an informed decision, then everything should go over smoothly.
Additionally, it would help if you could borrow a friend's Mac to give it a test-drive prior to buying one yourself. If you can do that, then also let your parents play around with it so they know what you're talking about it.
Finally, remember to suggest the Apple Refurb store and potentially splitting 50/50 on the computer. Parents love that kind of money-saving talk. Also, remember to be realistic. If you're swimming in debt and really can't afford a $1300+ computer, then perhaps you should just settle for the time being. Good things come to those who wait
Study hard.
Let me take a stab at answering your question since almost everyone else has forgotten about it. Also, since this appears to be an attempt at convincing your parents, I have tailored my answers accordingly...
Reasons to go Mac:
- Stable/Secure OS that will run under old hardware (unlike MS). It WILL last 4 years
- Time Machine (easy backups for homework)
- Better build quality (case, keyboard, screen, internal assembly, etc.) - fewer repairs, longer lasting, better resale value
- Thinnest/lightest notebook in its class (important for trips to the library)
- Environmentally responsible
Most importantly, don't pretend that Macs are a better 'value' than a PC. The truth is, all Apple computers come with a premium. It's best to acknowledge this fact, but then provide a reasoned argument for why you think that slight premium is worth it. If you can show your parents that you've done the research and made an informed decision, then everything should go over smoothly.
Additionally, it would help if you could borrow a friend's Mac to give it a test-drive prior to buying one yourself. If you can do that, then also let your parents play around with it so they know what you're talking about it.
Finally, remember to suggest the Apple Refurb store and potentially splitting 50/50 on the computer. Parents love that kind of money-saving talk. Also, remember to be realistic. If you're swimming in debt and really can't afford a $1300+ computer, then perhaps you should just settle for the time being. Good things come to those who wait
Study hard.
I see where you're coming from, but it isn't exactly convincing my parents. I am more on the line of convincing myself.
I am not in debt, nor am I in ANY financial turmoil. I am finding myself battling the premium of a Mac. They are amazing machines, as I have attempted to fix a friend's old Powerbook. Used Leopard on it too.
And waiting until June, actually, I will be doing the iPod promo. That way, it's cheaper than the refurb store, plus I get a new machine instead of used. But, refurbs are checked, so yeah. A bit of a pull toward each side.
Thanks for the assistance. I am heavily leaning toward a MacBook, and then building an i7 custom PC rig for PCI Express music recording.
I agree that the current intel lineup in a custom build is the (most fun) way to go, and a macbook is a nice travel machine.
I see where you're coming from, but it isn't exactly convincing my parents. I am more on the line of convincing myself.
I am not in debt, nor am I in ANY financial turmoil. I am finding myself battling the premium of a Mac. They are amazing machines, as I have attempted to fix a friend's old Powerbook. Used Leopard on it too.
And waiting until June, actually, I will be doing the iPod promo. That way, it's cheaper than the refurb store, plus I get a new machine instead of used. But, refurbs are checked, so yeah. A bit of a pull toward each side.
Thanks for the assistance. I am heavily leaning toward a MacBook, and then building an i7 custom PC rig for PCI Express music recording.
I am betting by that time MacBooks will be on the verge of being updated. A Mac is a solid investment, it won't loose $$ value like a PC. With Apple Care you get even more peace of mind.
If your parents can't see a Mac purchase, then I'd suggest convincing them with facts rather than words. A small Powerpoint presentation how Macs are better for the student life, stable, and whatever fact you can find around (using well documented sources and reviews) can help out. A visit to the Apple Store will also be a great thing to do. Get to know what you are trying to buy.
To any PC lovers out there. Check out Chris Pirillo (or however you say his name), he was a hard-core Mac Hater and Vista lover. Respected among PC die hard fans, he now runs and loves OS X. So, he changed for a reason. lol
Note - I will not respond to comments or quotes from a certain person who likes writing epistles on how PCs > Macs.
I see where you're coming from, but it isn't exactly convincing my parents. I am more on the line of convincing myself.
I am not in debt, nor am I in ANY financial turmoil. I am finding myself battling the premium of a Mac. They are amazing machines, as I have attempted to fix a friend's old Powerbook. Used Leopard on it too.
And waiting until June, actually, I will be doing the iPod promo. That way, it's cheaper than the refurb store, plus I get a new machine instead of used. But, refurbs are checked, so yeah. A bit of a pull toward each side.
Thanks for the assistance. I am heavily leaning toward a MacBook, and then building an i7 custom PC rig for PCI Express music recording.
My bad...
I know what you mean about battling the price premium - I went through the same thing. Oddly enough, I have absolutely no regrets about it (and I really hate spending money).
From my experience, what makes the premium worth it, is simply the attention to detail. Everything is well thought out on this machine. I think the trackpad/gestures are a gift from God because they improved my productivity 5-fold. It may sound a bit ridiculous, but when you have 6 different windows open and you're reading various journal articles, it makes switching between them a breeze. I never have to worry about the 'ghost in the machine' because OS X is far less prone to 'hiccups' than Windows. Say what you will, but in my lifetime, I've had to format Windows far more times than I care to remember.
At the end of the day, it's like jumping in a pool. It's going to happen eventually, and the first three seconds are going to feel very cold. After that, however, you're going to wish you jumped in earlier. Or, you can think of it this way... if you're going to drop a large amount of money, you might as well spend a little extra to get something you know you will be happy with. Why spend $1000 on something that will only partially meet your expectations?
Good luck!
And I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that my multiple Macs have crashed for seemingly no reason in OS X while being rock solid in Windows.
It's "nvidia".
And there is absolutely no possible way that GPU drivers would have affected wireless drivers. No way at all. That is completely impossible. They don't interact in any way at all.
Of course, it's always the users fault when it comes to Macs but its always the PCs fault when it comes to PCs.
Somehow its the users fault when OS X crashes by clicking "empty trash" or "Burn" in a burn folder. Somehow its the users fault the OS crashes when clicking through game screenshots at a website, or, on a fresh boot of the OS, moving the mouse cursor. Yeah the user is really doing something wrong there!
You must have 0 experience with PC notebooks. A well built consumer notebook, like the HP dv5 series or even their older series going back, like the dv6x00 series even the 5000 series, have never been "flexible" or anything.
In fact, the aluminum housing holding the LCD and the bottom cover on the "unibody" Mac is SOFTER than any of the plastics on my HP dv6500t.
Didn't take long for the school yard insults to begin.
I've been using a Mac for nearly 2 years now. I have plenty of experience with its crashing and lack of modern features compared to Windows.
And it takes me all of 5 minutes to write a long post. It's called being a fast typer
It'll be even more incredible when the cable frays and starts to spark and becomes a fire hazard.
If the ExpressCard reader actually broke because of the solder points, then that means the user was being overly rough.
I've had several PCs with ExpressCard slots over the years and I've used multiple devices in all of them, removing and inserting new cards throughout the day, and I haven't had a single one break.
ExpressCard slots are actually designed to have constant insertion and removal. So if it broke due at any solder point, that means the user caused it.
Because, again, it's the users fault when they click "Empty Trash" and the entire OS locks up. Or they move the mouse and the entire OS locks up. Yeah, thats definitely the users fault.
If you don't think OS X has any problems like what I've described, you need to venture outside of these forums or talk to people who aren't diehard Apple fans and are ready to discuss their issues. I know at least 30 people who have switched from Mac OS back to Windows in the last 6 months and it was all due to stability issues with OS X itself.
No online coupons. Just go to HP, go to the notebook section, and configure a dv5t for yourself. And don't try any of that junk that others try, like trying to say you need Vista Ultimate when Home Premium has more features than OS X, or that you need an additional expensive photo editing suite when Photo Gallery is built-in and Picassa, Photosmart Express, and others are all free and more powerful than iPhoto.
There isn't any reason why there should be a premium on Macs and there isn't anything good about them for their price. The $1299 MacBook should be $999. The $1599 model should be $1099. The $2499 MacBook Pro should be $1199.
And as I've said before, this argument is null and void.
People DO NOT buy the MacBook 13.3" because of the form factor. They buy it because it is ALL THEY CAN AFFORD.
Look at PC sales for proof. 14.1 systems cost roughly the same as 15.4", yet the 15.4" systems sell many times better overall. HP's 13.3" offerings cost the same as their 15.4" and 14.1" systems. Yet people overwhelmingly buy the 15.4" systems.
Why do you think 15.4" systems can be so cheap on the PC side? Because people overwhelmingly buy them in favor of the smaller form factors.
People WANT 15.4" notebooks. And they ONLY buy the MacBook because it is ALL THEY CAN AFFORD. If Apple priced their notebooks the way they should be priced, the 15.4" MacBook Pro would be their most popular computer.
Stable? Don't even try to tell me that OS X is stable.
And the requirements for Vista and OS X are the same. Each will run on equally old hardware.
The thing is, Vista will run better on older hardware because better older hardware is available on the PC side
You go back to 2002 and the fastest Mac was a 1.25GHz dual processor PowerMac with a Radeon 9000 Pro. PCs had broken past and gone beyond 2GHz, and the AMD Athlon XPs were the fastest processors of that time. Not to mention the fact that PC GPUs were well ahead of the Radeon 9000. A PC from 2002 is much more likely to run Vista smoothly than a Mac from 2002.
Even if you wanna go back 4 years now, to the end of 2004/beginning of 2005.... the fastest PowerMac G5 was running at 2.7GHz with a Radeon 9650. Despite being dual processor, they still didn't run as anywhere close to as fast as the nearly 4GHz Pentium 4s available at the time, and the Athlon 64 X2 available in August of that you pretty much put any processor to shame until the Core 2 was released the following year. Plus we had the GeForce 7000 series on PCs
So a 4 year old PC is MUCH more likely to run Vista better than a 4 year old Mac is likely to run Leopard well.
Actually, I remember one thing funny. When the first Core Duo iMacs and MacBook Pros were coming out, those MOBILE processors were walking all over the G5 PowerMacs in benchmarks and real world tests. That says a lot about just how slow PPC architecture is and was.
Which is why I spent a total of more than 2 months in roughly a year and a half without my Mac due to repairs thanks to bad build quality. While my aluminum MacBook is much better than my plastic MacBooks, the aluminum housing on it is soft to the touch compared to my HP's plastic.
The 13.3" MacBook is a full pound lighter than an average 15.4" PC notebook.
Plus you carry your notebook in a case, right? So the thinness doesn't matter. Most people would rather have more power and proper cooling anyway.
Macs are losing value faster and faster these days as people realize that they're vastly overpriced compared to PCs, thanks to them now having the same hardware. I've seen previous generation MacBook Pros that went for $2499 new going for less than half of that now and still not selling, as people realize that they're just not worth the money.
Plus AppleCare doesn't cover anything it should, like accidental damage.
Chris Pirillo? The guy that went crazy and got kicked off Call for Help because he generally didn't know what he was talking about and now he has a blog that nobody really cares about also?
Sorry about the typo, somehow I often write "nvidea" instead of "invidia", even when I google it or something, don't know why.
But still after I installed these drivers the wireless card wasn't recognized anymore, you can claim that this is impossible as much as you want. I only installed Fallout 3 and nothing else on this system, and it worked for 2 months until I installed these drivers.
I guess it might be a combination of the OS and user error, like I wrote in my first post "maybe I did something wrong".
The same goes for your OS X experiences. Different machines & different users end up to use OS X and Windows differently.
Just look how different the opinions on Vista are, in this thread alone. One claims it to be perfectly stable, another claims it to be a crashing nightmare.
I have never really used Vista, since I have no use for it, and I don't claim it to be anything. For my occasional gaming needs XP is enough and for work I have a perfectly stable OS X 10.5.6 on 3 machines, and that's all I need for now.
Like I said - combination of the OS and user error. That said, I still recommend and also know IT professionals who recommend a Mini or a MacBook especially to computer illiterate friends and family. Of course you can get a pc with better specs cheaper, but these people don't need that better specs for writing stuff, checking mails and browsing. For these tasks you don't notice a difference between an i7 machine and a 1 ghz G4. And in general if you don't know much about computers you can mess up Windows much more than OS X. In general, which doesn't mean it's the same for everybody.
mosx:
so yes, term in 2009. so how are you going to access remote servers? via remotedesktop ?
yet i havent encountered a single crash while "burning a CD" or "emptying trash"...
infact, ive just burned a CD. its works flawlessy and i havent got a crash.
how is that possible?
by the way, i have the same argument for you "Optical media in 2009?"
so, either you are unable to operate a mac (which is easier to operate, at least at basics), or you got a faulty mac. happens. happened to me with at least 3 pcs (and all 3 macs ive (2 of which are mine) dealt with havent got problems.)
and now you are telling me that macs are unable to burn a CD?
so yes, term in 2009. so how are you going to access remote servers? via remotedesktop ?
yet i havent encountered a single crash while "burning a CD" or "emptying trash"...
infact, ive just burned a CD. its works flawlessy and i havent got a crash.
how is that possible?
by the way, i have the same argument for you "Optical media in 2009?"
so, either you are unable to operate a mac (which is easier to operate, at least at basics), or you got a faulty mac. happens. happened to me with at least 3 pcs (and all 3 macs ive (2 of which are mine) dealt with havent got problems.)
and now you are telling me that macs are unable to burn a CD?
I would put it on Apple. Their Windows driver support is awful. That new driver for the unibody Macs that was supposed to fix our trackpad problems did absolutely nothing for people who COULD install it. For some, like me, it wouldn't install at all.
I wouldn't recommend a Mac to anyone based on the price alone.
Windows is definitely no less user friendly than OS X, and they miss out on far too much by limiting themselves to a Mac.
Plus, $599 for a computer with only 1GB of RAM and a CD writer? Not worth it. Thats like 2003 specs right there.
What? Are you kidding? The G4s were so ridiculously slow. You wouldn't even be able to run youtube or any flash content on one of those. With the way OS X wastes CPU cycles on Intel processors, I'd hate to see just how poorly a 1GHz G4 would run Leopard.
Why would I need to?
I don't know how its possible. All I know is OS X did it! I had all of my files dragged over to the "Burn Folder", clicked "Burn" and the OS locked up.
Another time I was about to do the same thing and Finder locked up. My other apps were running still and I could receive IMs, but I couldn't interact with Finder at all.
Why not? Taiyo Yuden discs are ridiculously reliable. You can get 438GB worth of storage for $20.
Optical discs are so cheap, and Taiyo Yuden is incredibly reliable, and you can basically burn multiple copies for redundancy.
I've had optical discs out last USB flash drives, even those with long warranties like Corsair. And yes I properly eject and even wait a minute or two before removing the drive.
So I ask again, why not optical media? Taiyo Yuden is incredibly reliable and the media is ridiculously cheap. Plus a good external 20x writer will get that disc out to you in about 4 minutes.
Once again, it's the USER'S fault when they do something simple like click "Burn" in a "Burn Folder" and the OS itself locks up
How could that EVER be the users fault? When all the user did was drag and drop files from the "Documents" folder, click "Burn" and the OS locks up?
That is simply NOT the users fault and is the result of an unstable OS.
Not saying that at all. All I said was that OS X is unstable. And it is.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220391
For the hardware, they're really not.
If you value the user experience, reliability, OS, software integration, battery life, (little things like the magsafe), build quality (though that's up for discussion), etc. then it's worth it to get a Macbook.
Just be comfortable with the fact that you paid for the latter, and not the fact that you have the best GPU in your notebook and or ports and expandability.
Macbook != bang for buck laptop
For the hardware, they're really not.
If you value the user experience, reliability, OS, software integration, battery life, (little things like the magsafe), build quality (though that's up for discussion), etc. then it's worth it to get a Macbook.
Just be comfortable with the fact that you paid for the latter, and not the fact that you have the best GPU in your notebook and or ports and expandability.
Macbook != bang for buck laptop
Who says that 1 ghz G4 for someone who just uses word & a browser for webmail etc. needs to run Leopard? A computer illiterate user won't know or use the differences to Tiger or even Panther. Has anybody got grandpa to use exposé for example? He won't notice or use the differences between XP and Vista either. For grandpa it doesn't matter if he uses an i7 Vista machine or a pentium 3 XP machine, or a 1 ghz G4 performance wise, but the Mac will be more secure and it is less likely that grandpa breaks something by accident.
Yes OS X seems to be very unstable, for YOU on YOUR MacBook. Yet for many many others it's perfectly stable. Strange isn't it? All I'm asking is that you don't make stupid generalizations based on your experiences with 1 or 2 Macs. Is it that hard to understand? There are enough people who bash Windows based on 1 or 2 bad experiences or machines they have owned, you are just doing it the other way around. Both ways are not facts, they are opinions. Until you get the difference between opinion and fact I'll leave you and your opinions alone.