What I'm confused about is why did Apple go to Intel when they already had a relationship with AMD, as both Apple and AMD are in the Hypertransport Consort.??
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Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]
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tdar said:
I've just been reading some tech write-ups that expect OS X to run significantly faster on the same Intel chip than XP does - the speed boost is apparently in part in the OS code.
Are the lovely text / graphics of OS X "velocity engine" dependent? Or is it just an OpenGL issue? The "clear fonts" of XP just aren't as good as on OS X.
Gah, I can't keep up with these posts!MacTruck said:
You're just negative, MacTruck...
I'm not to peachy on this idea right now, in fact, it sorta killed my day... But i do think we'll work through it.
Surprising
First time posting. I have read about 500 replies now and I must say
that Steve could sell some of you anything. Let's get some things out
of the way as I see it:
1. I have no idea whether this is the death of Apple or the best
ever. Hopefully it turns out ok. I am sure Apple did not want to do this and IBM messed them over.
2. x86 is crap. It only exists because MS cannot throw away its
32-bit APIs and so Intel continues to use this legacy technology.
Its got a higher "speed", but is far less productive. That's not a
mhz-myth - go ask AMD. AMD has a much better option - still sadly
constrained by the need to support ancient Windows APIs. Maybe they
choose Intel as the "safe" bet to avoid any upsets. Additionally, as
a percent increase, the G5 is the fasting increasing chip speed-wise
in the last two years.
3. Science sales of x86 Macs will be crap. I am a scientist (PhD
student) wasting my day here in shock. The G5 is an amazing
architecture that brought real scientific benefits. Go read Apple's
and IBM's white papers. OSX brings nothing to science beyond Windows
or Linux. In competitive grants, everyone will go with the cheaper
Dell solution and put on Linux now since we cannot argue about the
many benefits of the G5. All that Altivec optimized gene scanning -
bye bye! One group that will be buying the G5 up to the very last
moment they are sold is scientific labs and gene scanning projects.
4. This is a win for consumer laptops - no doubt. On the laptop
front intel is doing great work given that they still work with x86 (
I would love to see what Intel or AMD could do if they could drop the
ancient tech and go all out). On workstations and desktops I think it
will be about three steps back. I can only imagine Apple is willing
to take so many steps back because IBM told them no more development
or Steve is having a tantrum. So, Apple is hopefully taking some very
big steps backwards technologically (bus speed, vectors, 64 bit,
memory controller to name a few off the top of my head) for potential
future tech growth which they did not believe was possible with PPC.
Or Steve is insane, because right now Intel x86 is just poor. Or,
they realize that most non-science people are stupid and believe that
a chip running at 3.6 ghz must be more powerful than the AMD running
at 2.7 and they want to exploit the mhz-myth.
5. So, can Apple survive a transition in the midst of a backwards
step with regards to system architecture? Not in academia, but likely
in consumer and prosumer markets based on the way the RDF is working
so well here.
6. The question I need to ask myself is honestly - how much better is
OSX than XP really, since that is the only difference now. Having
both systems, I must say it just is not such a gaping chasm that so
many think. I think OSX is better, but if Apple still charges a
premium will I really think it is that much better?
7. Emulation/code morphing/magic will be relatively slow and
frustrating, anyone promising otherwise is trying to sell you
something.
8. What a day!
First time posting. I have read about 500 replies now and I must say
that Steve could sell some of you anything. Let's get some things out
of the way as I see it:
1. I have no idea whether this is the death of Apple or the best
ever. Hopefully it turns out ok. I am sure Apple did not want to do this and IBM messed them over.
2. x86 is crap. It only exists because MS cannot throw away its
32-bit APIs and so Intel continues to use this legacy technology.
Its got a higher "speed", but is far less productive. That's not a
mhz-myth - go ask AMD. AMD has a much better option - still sadly
constrained by the need to support ancient Windows APIs. Maybe they
choose Intel as the "safe" bet to avoid any upsets. Additionally, as
a percent increase, the G5 is the fasting increasing chip speed-wise
in the last two years.
3. Science sales of x86 Macs will be crap. I am a scientist (PhD
student) wasting my day here in shock. The G5 is an amazing
architecture that brought real scientific benefits. Go read Apple's
and IBM's white papers. OSX brings nothing to science beyond Windows
or Linux. In competitive grants, everyone will go with the cheaper
Dell solution and put on Linux now since we cannot argue about the
many benefits of the G5. All that Altivec optimized gene scanning -
bye bye! One group that will be buying the G5 up to the very last
moment they are sold is scientific labs and gene scanning projects.
4. This is a win for consumer laptops - no doubt. On the laptop
front intel is doing great work given that they still work with x86 (
I would love to see what Intel or AMD could do if they could drop the
ancient tech and go all out). On workstations and desktops I think it
will be about three steps back. I can only imagine Apple is willing
to take so many steps back because IBM told them no more development
or Steve is having a tantrum. So, Apple is hopefully taking some very
big steps backwards technologically (bus speed, vectors, 64 bit,
memory controller to name a few off the top of my head) for potential
future tech growth which they did not believe was possible with PPC.
Or Steve is insane, because right now Intel x86 is just poor. Or,
they realize that most non-science people are stupid and believe that
a chip running at 3.6 ghz must be more powerful than the AMD running
at 2.7 and they want to exploit the mhz-myth.
5. So, can Apple survive a transition in the midst of a backwards
step with regards to system architecture? Not in academia, but likely
in consumer and prosumer markets based on the way the RDF is working
so well here.
6. The question I need to ask myself is honestly - how much better is
OSX than XP really, since that is the only difference now. Having
both systems, I must say it just is not such a gaping chasm that so
many think. I think OSX is better, but if Apple still charges a
premium will I really think it is that much better?
7. Emulation/code morphing/magic will be relatively slow and
frustrating, anyone promising otherwise is trying to sell you
something.
8. What a day!
more market share?
One of the articles I read on this pointed out that apple market share tends to fall after major shifts like this.
I think it is a big leap that apple will even remain flat in market share ... let alone gain.
akb said:
One of the articles I read on this pointed out that apple market share tends to fall after major shifts like this.
I think it is a big leap that apple will even remain flat in market share ... let alone gain.
Freyqq said:
Oh you better believe it. I know several people in the industry that use macs and believe me they are not optimistic like the Macheads here, they are disgusted and are already moving off of the Mac platform, as we speak. You see in business you build up alot of work and to keep going on a platform that has been given 2 yrs to live you are committing business suicide. You know how much it costs a company to switch 20 macs and all the software? A ***** load. The pc has always been cheaper and will cost 1/4 to move back than it will to switch if they did it NOW. Doing it in 2 yrs will cost them 10 fold. No, apple just shot all its supporters in the face.
Is it apples fault, kind of. Its IBMs fault for not making better CPUs but apple is to blame. They hord the hardware and make it impossible to work with them. If you could just go out and buy a new graphics card or dvd drive to work with their new software they sure but they make you buy a new system.
redAPPLE said:
As I said in an earlier post
If your sense of self worth or identity is so tied to the computer you use -- you need counseling AND - If you If your sense of self worth or identity is so tied to the computer you use AND the CPU its running on you need to check into rehab and get a life.
Jobs did what he had to do when put in this situation - his long term goals for company are to have it be healthy and competitive ----- I believe he was through with any more dicey CPU deals (i.e. like going AMD) !!!!!!
So sit down - shut the fu(k up - and enjoy the ride !!!!!
I've watched Apple innovate for many years - and break the rules and the mold again and again. This should be great for both Apple and Intel and the industry.
If you're too sensitive to handle it go buy a *****box PC + XP or some AMD collection of crap and run Linux.
Then ther's no need to hang around here ......
I'm ready for the future and Apples first surprise.
how can anybody think this is bad? there's loads of peeps like me who can't afford a mac...now they'll at least make some cash off of the software (for me...OSX / Logic) that they wouldn't have made in the first place.
I think Apple will still make cash off of they're hardware. they'll probably REALLY concentrate on making kick ass PC's (not that they don't anyway). If they make kick ass stuff at affordable prices...they can become the next Dell.
This is a good thing....i think A LOT more people will start using Apple software now. I can't wait to have a dual boot laptop.... windoze AND OSX
"it's a good thing"
I think Apple will still make cash off of they're hardware. they'll probably REALLY concentrate on making kick ass PC's (not that they don't anyway). If they make kick ass stuff at affordable prices...they can become the next Dell.
This is a good thing....i think A LOT more people will start using Apple software now. I can't wait to have a dual boot laptop.... windoze AND OSX
"it's a good thing"
couldn't read everything
I hope that is not all that was scheduled for the week. Kind of makes me feel sick. I just hope apple has some gizmos lined up for the next two years. Watching ipod sales and waiting on new hardware for two years is depressing. There was a lot of software that still has not been updated for Tiger and now this. Even the pace of dashboard widgets, automator, and spotlights updates quickly slowed after the first weeks. I think he should have come out with something better than he did. What am I supposed to think with all his hyping about the G5 - that this is not taking a few step backwards only to try to crawl back to the same place. I should have been selling tomatos out front this morning.
I'm in the sciences and already had to buy a pc box last month because I put tiger on without realizing that many molecular programs are now just being dropped by the developers and updates for SPSS are not supposed to arrive anytime in the near future. I've already got an intel and it sucks! I wish I could have afforded a barebones AMD but took the cheap way out and got P4.
I hope that is not all that was scheduled for the week. Kind of makes me feel sick. I just hope apple has some gizmos lined up for the next two years. Watching ipod sales and waiting on new hardware for two years is depressing. There was a lot of software that still has not been updated for Tiger and now this. Even the pace of dashboard widgets, automator, and spotlights updates quickly slowed after the first weeks. I think he should have come out with something better than he did. What am I supposed to think with all his hyping about the G5 - that this is not taking a few step backwards only to try to crawl back to the same place. I should have been selling tomatos out front this morning.
I'm in the sciences and already had to buy a pc box last month because I put tiger on without realizing that many molecular programs are now just being dropped by the developers and updates for SPSS are not supposed to arrive anytime in the near future. I've already got an intel and it sucks! I wish I could have afforded a barebones AMD but took the cheap way out and got P4.
Please dont say that it is 5%.... hopefulley more like 0.005%MacTruck said:
nevertheless, I share your fear... Apple is risking a lot now
bosrs1 said:
I dont know much about computers but does this mean it will be easier to get viruses now?
Or is this change synonmous with lets say, apple software being made PC compatible, so really there isnt much of a difference besides Mac programs being available across platforms?
Claudia
Ok, so we know that PPC apps will run fine on the new architecture....but what about Altivec/Velocity Engine programs?
Where do they stand in this whole shift?
Are they just going to be forgotten about? I ask this because PPC/G3 focused apps (i.e. non-specialized programs) are the only ones that will run on the new x86 platform according to the PDF that was posted a while back in this thread.
Where do they stand in this whole shift?
Are they just going to be forgotten about? I ask this because PPC/G3 focused apps (i.e. non-specialized programs) are the only ones that will run on the new x86 platform according to the PDF that was posted a while back in this thread.
just for fun... (and further to my previous post about "Think Different" being more than a catchphrase).
Business Week Oct 12 2004:
"Our primary goal here is to make the world's best PCs -- not to be the biggest or the richest.
We have a second goal, which is to always make a profit -- both to make some money but also so we can keep making those great products. For a time, those goals got flipped at Apple, and that subtle change made all the difference. When I got back, we had to make it a product company again."
here's hoping that's still true.
Business Week Oct 12 2004:
"Our primary goal here is to make the world's best PCs -- not to be the biggest or the richest.
We have a second goal, which is to always make a profit -- both to make some money but also so we can keep making those great products. For a time, those goals got flipped at Apple, and that subtle change made all the difference. When I got back, we had to make it a product company again."
here's hoping that's still true.
i am so mad. this totaly sucks.
i liked the mac because it was a mac....now its jsut not the same
i liked the mac because it was a mac....now its jsut not the same
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