macOS 10.12 Sierra Unsupported Macs Thread

Discussion in 'macOS Sierra (10.12)' started by redheeler, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #76
    Lol you're a joke. Do you understand the environmental implications of this?

    Do you also understand that the compatibility list is completely arbitrary?

    The 2009 Mac Pro is more powerful than the 2009 Macbook white they listed.
     
  2. GizmoDVD macrumors 68000

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    SoCal
    #77
    You mean RAM? That pretty easy. But a GPU? What about finding RAM for a machine almost a decade old?

    No point in continuing. My 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mini will be just fine.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 13, 2016 ---
    So you are going to throw your $3,000 (Which is probably waaaay less now that its so old) computer away because you can't update to the latest OS?
     
  3. UncleSchnitty macrumors 6502a

    UncleSchnitty

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    #78
    I have officially gone into "forget" it mode. As a Mac Pro owner I'm pissed. Looks like from now on I'll buy 2 refresh cycles back Mac minis. And yes I know my Mac now can do everything it could do before and I'm not concerned about these new features (that my Mac can handle) it's more security updates I worry about.
     
  4. Gamer9430, Jun 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016

    Gamer9430 macrumors 68020

    Gamer9430

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    #79
    2600XT- 97 listings
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro....TRC0.A0.H0.X2600xt.TRS0&_nkw=2600xt&_sacat=0
    8800GT- 211 listings
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...12.TRC2.A0.H0.X8800.TRS0&_nkw=8800gt&_sacat=0
    FX5600- 60 listings
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk....TRC0.A0.H0.XFX5600.TRS0&_nkw=FX5600&_sacat=0
    PC2-6400 DDR2- 7234 listings
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...c2-6400+DDR2.TRS0&_nkw=pc2-6400+DDR2&_sacat=0

    That's nearly 400 more people who could run the new OS...
     
  5. UncleSchnitty macrumors 6502a

    UncleSchnitty

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  6. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #81
    I don't own one of these - but yes people will have to buy new machines to run the new OS to ensure compatibility.
     
  7. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #82
    Get back under your bridge.
     
  8. Gamer9430 macrumors 68020

    Gamer9430

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    #83
    Why yes, yes you can. What an amazing world we live in where we can buy stuff online!
     
  9. PowerMac G4 MDD macrumors 68000

    PowerMac G4 MDD

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    #84
    xD The OS versions are becoming crippled anyway, since Tim Cook can't take his head out of his butt-hole and realize what's been happened to Apple.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 13, 2016 ---
    Apparently, all you have to do is upgrade to 5,1 firmware, which is what people do anyway when they upgrade their 4,1s to 5,1 specifications.
     
  10. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #85
    If only there was an online auction website that sold computer parts. Oh hang on 1999 wants qxl.com back.
     
  11. redheeler thread starter macrumors 604

    redheeler

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    Oct 17, 2014
    #86
    Can you give me an example of how El Capitan or another version was crippled supporting the older hardware? Please, show me that you know what you're talking about.

    Usually, if certain features don't work on older hardware, like AirDrop or Handoff, they are simply disabled on that hardware.
     
  12. PowerMac G4 MDD macrumors 68000

    PowerMac G4 MDD

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    #87
    This is a matter of Apple flipping off its Pro line users by purposefully (and in spite) making it so that their machines are "obsolete." Good thing workarounds are underway, but it still doesn't cover up what Apple has done. It's so clear what they've done. Look how they happened to leave a 2009 consumer MacBook up on the list, but users with a 2009 Mac Pro (which can support GPUs that are light years ahead of the GPU in the best 5K iMac or 2013 Mac Pro) are left in the dust. What a shame. Looks like I'll be updating my firmware, assuming I want to update to the next crappy version of Mac OSX... or should I say 'macOS.'
     
  13. Ryantjan macrumors newbie

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    Jun 13, 2016
    #89
    How to upgrade mbp mid-2009 to 5,1?

    But 13" MBP mid-2009 have same spec with 13" MBWU late-2009, and higher end model have better cpu with higher clock rate

    Why apple drop support on higher end 13" mbp mid-2009? Its more expensive than late-2009 mb :(
     
  14. ziggy29 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
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    Oregon North Coast
    #90
    As I said before, the faltering of Moore's Law is hurting manufacturers. So while it used to be easy to enforce obsolescence through rapidly increasing hardware power, RAM footprints and GPUs, they aren't increasing as rapidly any more so Apple needed to time-bomb some perfectly capable machines. Desupporting hardware because the new OS releases can no longer run well enough with them, or the user base is too small to code for, I get. Just saying, "it's too old, I don't care if it's still capable, buy a new one" feels like a middle finger. I was leaning against upgrading my late '08 MB Unibody and Early '09 Mini anyway, so there's no real loss to me here. But it does concern me in terms of future hardware purchases, if I want to keep buying Apple hardware if entirely capable machines are being obsoleted NOT because of capabilities but just because they are a little too old.
    Not to mention that I am primarily a Mac user, not an iPad user (though I have an iPad) and I don't own an iPhone or an Apple Watch, and it feels like Mac is becoming a less important line of business for them, and the OS becomes more and more like iOS anyway.
     
  15. PowerMac G4 MDD macrumors 68000

    PowerMac G4 MDD

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    #91
    Oh, I was referring to the 2009 Mac Pro desktop (4,1). There is an application that allows you to easily upgrade its firmware to that of a 5,1 Mac Pro. People usually do this when they upgrade the CPUs in their 4,1. Since the 5,1 is the earliest MP that can run Sierra, flashing a 4,1 to a 5,1 ID will make Sierra think that the 4,1 is a 5,1 and, therefore, allow the 4,1 to boot the new OS. As for your question about the MacBook, I have the feeling that Apple is simply leaving Pro-line users in the dust. Odd, though, because the 2009 MacBook Pro is not for professionals at this point.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 13, 2016 ---
    Well-said and very true. I'd never drop money on a new Mac in general, since Apple has been cutting lots of corners recently - not just the fact that they are dropping support for Macs for the reason of faking their obsolescence. Funny how I just ordered an 8GB RAM upgrade for my 2009 MacBook Pro, and now I can't upgrade to Sierra. Well, El Cap will be good for a while, at least; and if there's a workaround for the 2009 MacBook Pro and Mac Mini, then users of these machines will be just fine. I'm sure there will be, since Apple took the easy route to make these obsolete. Heck, my 9400M GPU is the same GPU in the supported 2009 MacBook, so I'm sure all Apple did was exclude my Mac's ID from the new OS. I bet someone could just add it back in and save the installer like that.
     
  16. east85 macrumors 65816

    east85

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    Jun 24, 2010
    #92
    Does anyone have reliable insight into how long Apple supports older versions of OS X? Glancing at wikipedia it seems that Snow Leopard, Lion & Mountain Lion are said to have discontinued security support after roughly 3 years (counting from their release). Is that roughly correct?
     
  17. KALLT macrumors 601

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    Sep 23, 2008
    #93
    Only Yosemite and El Capitan will receive security updates now. To be honest, the security updates themselves are not spectacular. Apple barely makes any changes, they pretty much just update or reconfigure external components. If security is your concern, then the latest system should be used. Otherwise, it doesn’t really matter if your OS is many years old.
     
  18. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #94
    They support three versions at a time -

    So at the moment

    - 10.11 - Main updates
    - 10.10 - Security updates
    - 10.9 - Security updates
     
  19. Gamer9430 macrumors 68020

    Gamer9430

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    #95
    I think he actually did, I haven't seen him come around recently
     
  20. east85 macrumors 65816

    east85

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    #96
    Thanks, I think I might consider a solution if one comes around because that seems like an incredibly short window, if not just to buy some more time.

    I really, really don't want to let go of my MacBook.
     
  21. ziggy29 macrumors 6502

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    #97
    Which is particularly worrisome since they seem to be coming out with a new release every year whether they need it or not. That basically accelerates a manufactured, arbitrary "forced retirement".
     
  22. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #98
    Its ridiculous! 10.12 should have supported all macs 10.11 did
     
  23. bunnspecial, Jun 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016

    bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    Kentucky
    #99
    Funny thing is, I can find all the RAM I want for my MP 1,1 on Ebay, and it's not even all that expensive unless you insist on true "Mac Pro" RAM(with gigantic heatsinks). Heck, it didn't even cost me that much to drop in 16gb with the correct heatsinks-it was less than it would have cost me to upgrade my mid-2012 MBP to 16gb if I hadn't bought the computer with that much pre-installed. The early Mac Pros use DDR2 registered FB-DIMMs, which are otherwise pretty much the domain of(now antiquated) servers so ram on the whole for them is cheap.

    I get tired of hearing about supposedly "hard to find" RAM for older computers. SD-RAM, DDR, and DDR2 are quite plentiful and are inexpensive on Ebay. I tend to buy SDRAM in bulk because of the number of G3/G4 era computers I have, and can usually get my choice of LD 256mb PC-100(needed for Powermac G3s and one particular G4 model) as well as LD 512mb PC-133 for about $5/stick if I shop around. SO-DIMMs run the same price, although it requires being a bit more vigilant if you want LD 256mb sticks. I maxed a G5 not too long ago for around $40.

    The hard to find and expensive argument isn't really true until you get into pre-G3 stuff. I have both a Kanga and 3400c. These are very similar laptops, with the former having a G3 and the latter a 603e. They require a special, proprietary upgrade card. I was very lucky to get the rare 128mb card with my Kanga, while my 3400c only came with a 32mb. 128mb cards are available from some specialty suppliers, but are well over $100. Many other Macs of the era used 168 pin DIMMs, and aside from ram hoardes(I have combined a few that I got from old Mac guys) the only reliable source is the 128mb modules available at OWC. In the last few weeks, they have doubled their price on these to $20 each. @LightBulbFun had to hunt hard for the ram for his PowerMac 4400, and when he found it on Ebay he had it shipped to me since the seller wouldn't ship to England(as luck would have it, I actually found an additional 32mb stick for him in one of my ram drawers).

    I agree that some of the cut-offs are baffling. The late 2008 Al Macbook is the strange one, as it uses the same GPU and and very similar(DDR3) architecture to the supported late '09 Macbook. In fact, the GPU in the Al Macbook has double the VRAM of the late '09 white iBook. The other '09 Macbooks share a common link in the 9400M also(actually it's in a lot of the now deprecated computers) although admittedly they are DDR2.

    @MagicBoy 's Mini is telling about what we can expect, though. I downloaded Sierra a little while ago-in fact I've been meaning to sign up for a developer account for a while and this seemed as good a time as any to do it-although I haven't spent much time playing in it as I put it on my main MBP in a second partition and needed to get some other work done. Given the discontinued list, it looks like nVidia 8xxx series GPUs may be done. If that's the case, my '08 MBP will stay at El Capitan and my Mac Pro may need a new video card.

    BTW, the fact that the new OS is free is irrelevant. People have been hacking OS X to run on unsupported hardware for ages-since Apple cut off a handful of Macs(specifically beige G3s and Wallstreet Powerbooks-anything without built-in USB). Tiger was hacked to run on Macs without built-in Firewire, and installing Leopard on an AGP-based G4 is trivially easy. Bear in mind that this was back when a new version of OS X cost real money-usually around $130 or so. Heck, @LightBulbFun was even able to make Tiger run on 603 and 604 series CPUs.

    The only time it really hasn't happened is when a major shift in architectural requirements has occurred. This happened with Leopard, which requires a G4, Snow Leopard requiring an Intel processor, and Lion requiring full 64 bit processors. Aside from that, there's usually a way, even though in some cases you can only maybe stretch generation past the newest official one. My Blackbook(late '07) is running Mountain Lion, but I've been strongly encourage to not attempt beyond there.

    By the way, there is a program called PCI Slot Utility that is only applicable to Mac Pro 1,1 and 2,1s. Basically, it lets you adjust the bandwidth allocated to each slot. It's sort of "hidden" but will pop up on a 1,1 if you install a new PCIe card. Despite this officially not having been needed since 10.7(the last OS these computers supported) it is still is present in El Capitan. Just something to think about...

    BTW, El Capitan offers a fair number of features that my early '08 MBP(officially supported) can utilize. They just don't work in El Capitan.
     
  24. flowrider macrumors 603

    flowrider

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    #100
    Ex member, MacVidCards, has a flashed 4,1 mac Pro and successfully installed macOS Sierra.




    TinyGrab Screen Shot 6-13-16, 7.32.45 PM.png

    Lou
     
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