macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models

[MacinMan]

I've been wondering if the update is exposing existing problems with the machines in question. Not everyone installing Big sur has come away with a bricked computer. I for example have both a late 2013, 13 inch MBP, and a late 2015, 27 inch iMac. Both computers updated to Big Sur in normal time, and both run perfectly with the exception of new OS glitches. All I'm saying here is, is it possible that whatever the update is doing, is simply bringing out problems already there, that only certain processes would expose. There was a video done by Louis Rosman suggesting that, in simple terms the EFI is being corrupted. So I wonder if maybe the flash ROMS have possibly gone bad on some of hte older machines.

 

[piotr_sc]

a friend did an update on the new OS 11.01 and brick; - / I think something still lame this version

 

[mknell]

FYI: Downloaded the 20b50 over night, and just checked the packaged EFI firmware files. They are identical to build 20b29. Apple most likely only blocked affected machines from updating in this "release". There are plenty of other firmware files in there that I did not check, but my guess there is nothing in that release that would fix or not brick the old machines.
Pretty clear that anyone with an affected machine should stay away from Big Sur for now.
My personal opinion: There is little excuse for knowingly bricking a mac at this point...

I just saw a note from a user with a MBP 13 Late 2013 commenting on a German forum saying that the SW update
now tells him that the 10.15.7 is up-to-date for him; which would confirm your point.

Confirmed, see

Big Sur 11.0.1 (20B50) Released to Block Install for 2013-14 13" MBPro's!

Following the problems that 2013 & '14 13" MacBook Pro users were having, Apple released a new version of Big Sur that blocks installation!

mrmacintosh.com

 

[mknell]

I've been wondering if the update is exposing existing problems with the machines in question. Not everyone installing Big sur has come away with a bricked computer. I for example have both a late 2013, 13 inch MBP, and a late 2015, 27 inch iMac. Both computers updated to Big Sur in normal time, and both run perfectly with the exception of new OS glitches. All I'm saying here is, is it possible that whatever the update is doing, is simply bringing out problems already there, that only certain processes would expose. There was a video done by Louis Rosman suggesting that, in simple terms the EFI is being corrupted. So I wonder if maybe the flash ROMS have possibly gone bad on some of hte older machines.

I looked at the youtube video. To me Louis does a lot of guess work.

What I can tell from reading a lot of evidence from affected customers' comments on the diverse forums is
that when they got bricked almost all of them had something plugged into the right side of their MBP 13 Late 2013/Mid 2014
which is the i/o board incl. HDMI, a USB port & SD Card reader.
A lot had an SD card installed.
So yes the installer seems to have flashed ROMs on the i/o board to a point the i/o card cannot be used under Big Sur.
One user also reported yesterday he had the i/o card replaced by a repair shop. After that exchange the repair shop plugged the i/o card into another MBP not running big sur and it was still working, so that HW is not really broken, but the firmware installed does not work under big sur.

I hope we will learn later from however does the forensics in detail, what it exactly was.

Until then it is good to know that you avoid to install big sur on those MBP 13 late 2013/ mid 2014 if you can;
maybe the new build of Apple even prevents to update to Big Sur for these models (see comments above).

If you can't at least do not plug something into the right side of your MBP.
If you experience a black screen follow the generic instructions and if that does not help try to get help.
If you cannot get help try to unplug i/o board, consider to get it replaced or if you are confident find yourself a spare part and follow the fixit guide.

 

[piotr_sc]

after Big Sur installation and I / O replacement everything works fine? For me, it was brick, but I unplugged the I / O and it went, but now everything is plugged in again, wifi and BT work. unfortunately, I can not turn off the computer because the brick again and again need to unplug the I / O etc. but it works normally, restart and sleep option.

 

[lxmeta]

I've been wondering if the update is exposing existing problems with the machines in question. Not everyone installing Big sur has come away with a bricked computer. I for example have both a late 2013, 13 inch MBP, and a late 2015, 27 inch iMac. Both computers updated to Big Sur in normal time, and both run perfectly with the exception of new OS glitches. All I'm saying here is, is it possible that whatever the update is doing, is simply bringing out problems already there, that only certain processes would expose. There was a video done by Louis Rosman suggesting that, in simple terms the EFI is being corrupted. So I wonder if maybe the flash ROMS have possibly gone bad on some of hte older machines.

For the MBP 11,1 (13" late 2013) as example, the setup contains both EFI (427.0.0.0.0) as well as SMC firmware (2.16f68) updates. There are numerous things that can go wrong when updating firmware, not necessarily related to a "hidden" fault. I think it is much too early to judge. I am pretty sure it is not a simple "oh, that line is wrong" issue, but rather something way more complex, considering the numbers models being affected.
My wild guess is rather an issue with the update process than with the firmware itself leading to this issue.
Some can be recovered, and some maybe not, depending on at what stage the process failed...

 

[mknell]

after Big Sur installation and I / O replacement everything works fine? For me, it was brick, but I unplugged the I / O and it went, but now everything is plugged in again, wifi and BT work. unfortunately, I can not turn off the computer because the brick again and again need to unplug the I / O etc. but it works normally, restart and sleep option.

For me (and reportedly some others) after the i/o board replacement it works fine.
But maybe there will be other options to get these MBPs fully working again in the future.
Let's see.

 

[lxmeta]

after Big Sur installation and I / O replacement everything works fine? For me, it was brick, but I unplugged the I / O and it went, but now everything is plugged in again, wifi and BT work. unfortunately, I can not turn off the computer because the brick again and again need to unplug the I / O etc. but it works normally, restart and sleep option.

Just curious: Which exact model do you have, and which firmware (EFI, SMC). Do you have an original Apple SSD in there, or a 3rd party? The setup also contains SSD firmware etc...

 

[piotr_sc]

I am waiting for a new I / O to be in 30 days and so far I only use sleep mode ;-)

 

[piotr_sc]

Just curious: Which exact model do you have, and which firmware (EFI, SMC). Do you have an original Apple SSD in there, or a 3rd party? The setup also contains SSD firmware etc...

I have an original without any interference yesterday for the first time after 7 years I opened a Mac. My model is: MacBook Pro 13" "Core i5" 2.4 Late 2013 2.4 GHz Core i5 (I5-4258U) if you tell me how to check which firmware (EFI, SMC), I can check what version etc.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Hey guys, got a question regarding the Big Sur upgrade. This is more of a "does anyone have this technical info" type of question. When upgrading to Big Sur, I understand Apple is using containers, however I do not know a lot about APFS containers. What I am curious about is, after the upgrade, does the previous installed OS still exist, or is it completely overwritten as in the usual upgrade process. My understanding is, Apple puts Big Sur in a new container, however I'm not sure what this implies when it comes to does my install of Catalina still exist on the drive or not. Hope someone know, and can provide this information. Thanks.

P.S. I don't need to downgrade, was more curious if I could remove the other OS to reclaim the space, if that is "even an item to consider."

I was also curious as to what Apple has done here, because when I booted into my external install of Mojave, it says incompatible drive, and there is a Volume named Update mounted instead of the usual Macintosh HD, and Macintosh HD Data. The Data drive is there but the other isn't So just also curious about that.

Thanks

The Big Sur install process creates a protected System Volume and a Data Volume you can write to. You cannot see in to the System Volume from an older OS, but you can, by going to "/Volumes/BigSur - Data" see into the Data volume and your home folder.

Catalina was the first attempt at a protected System volume, and Big Sur has made it even more locked down. This is the reason Carbon Copy Cloner is having problems cloning a whole Big Sur installation, System and Data volumes. It can do the Data volume with no problems, but currently not the System Vol.

If you upgrade and existing Mojave or Catalina system to Big Sur, the old system gets replaced, except your Home folder stays the same.

If you partition your existing Catalina volume you can install Big Sur there, and have both on the one drive. Select one or the other at boot up and they won't interfere with each other.

However, I would never recommend upgrading from Mojave or Catalina to Big Sur. I only ever do a clean install of the new OS, then port my data across and install my applications from new. In the process it's amazing how many old apps you find you don't need any more.

 

[lxmeta]

I have an original without any interference yesterday for the first time after 7 years I opened a Mac. My model is: MacBook Pro 13" "Core i5" 2.4 Late 2013 2.4 GHz Core i5 (I5-4258U) if you tell me how to check which firmware (EFI, SMC), I can check what version etc.

In the about dialog, if you open the system report, you should get something like below:

If your update "worked, you should have System Firmware Version 427.0.0.0.0, and your SMC Version should be 2.16f68. If not, your update did not successfully flash these two firmware parts. There are other parts of the logic board that could have firmware, but this heavily depends on the specific model. My MB10,1 received an update for the USB-C controller as well... It could be that the IO board on the retina mac pros 2013-2015 has received an update that cause that issue.

 

[MacinMan]

The Big Sur install process creates a protected System Volume and a Data Volume you can write to. You cannot see in to the System Volume from an older OS, but you can, by going to "/Volumes/BigSur - Data" see into the Data volume and your home folder.

Catalina was the first attempt at a protected System volume, and Big Sur has made it even more locked down. This is the reason Carbon Copy Cloner is having problems cloning a whole Big Sur installation, System and Data volumes. It can do the Data volume with no problems, but currently not the System Vol.

If you upgrade and existing Mojave or Catalina system to Big Sur, the old system gets replaced, except your Home folder stays the same.

If you partition your existing Catalina volume you can install Big Sur there, and have both on the one drive. Select one or the other at boot up and they won't interfere with each other.

However, I would never recommend upgrading from Mojave or Catalina to Big Sur. I only ever do a clean install of the new OS, then port my data across and install my applications from new. In the process it's amazing how many old apps you find you don't need any more.

Thank you for the detailed answer. This was what I was looking for. Under most circumstances I would also do a clean install, especially if I run into a lot of problems. In the case of Big Sur I haven't encountered any problems. Question though, Is making a bootable USB installer for big sur the same as it has been ?

 

[MacinMan]

I looked at the youtube video. To me Louis does a lot of guess work.

What I can tell from reading a lot of evidence from affected customers' comments on the diverse forums is
that when they got bricked almost all of them had something plugged into the right side of their MBP 13 Late 2013/Mid 2014
which is the i/o board incl. HDMI, a USB port & SD Card reader.
A lot had an SD card installed.
So yes the installer seems to have flashed ROMs on the i/o board to a point the i/o card cannot be used under Big Sur.
One user also reported yesterday he had the i/o card replaced by a repair shop. After that exchange the repair shop plugged the i/o card into another MBP not running big sur and it was still working, so that HW is not really broken, but the firmware installed does not work under big sur.

I hope we will learn later from however does the forensics in detail, what it exactly was.

Until then it is good to know that you avoid to install big sur on those MBP 13 late 2013/ mid 2014 if you can;
maybe the new build of Apple even prevents to update to Big Sur for these models (see comments above).

If you can't at least do not plug something into the right side of your MBP.
If you experience a black screen follow the generic instructions and if that does not help try to get help.
If you cannot get help try to unplug i/o board, consider to get it replaced or if you are confident find yourself a spare part and follow the fixit guide.

That explains why I may not have had problems. I had nothing plugged into the MBP when updating. I installed Catalina from the right USB port but removed the flash drive after installed, then updated to Big Sur with nothing but power connected. On the iMac when I updated I had nothing connected but a couple of hard drives, keyboard and mouse and a blu-ray writer. I've read from a couple that they have a late 2015 27 inch iMac (my model) that Big Sur has also bricked. Both my computers came through the upgrade without issues and no unusual amount of time.

 

[piotr_sc]

In the about dialog, if you open the system report, you should get something like below:
View attachment 1674741
If your update "worked, you should have System Firmware Version 427.0.0.0.0, and your SMC Version should be 2.16f68. If not, your update did not successfully flash these two firmware parts. There are other parts of the logic board that could have firmware, but this heavily depends on the specific model. My MB10,1 received an update for the USB-C controller as well... It could be that the IO board on the retina mac pros 2013-2015 has received an update that cause that issue.

I have it : Wersja systemowego opr. sprzętowego: 427.0.0.0.0 Wersja SMC (system): 2.16f68

 

[lxmeta]

I have it : Wersja systemowego opr. sprzętowego: 427.0.0.0.0 Wersja SMC (system): 2.16f68

Ok, this are the firmware files that came with Big Sur. Assumption: Big Sur firmware install did go through.
Now it would be interesting to see if a downgrade to the previous version would fix this. This is quite delicate though. Do you have anyone local who could try that for you? The firmware files form the full Catalina installer should do

 

[mknell]

Ok, this are the firmware files that came with Big Sur. Assumption: Big Sur firmware install did go through.
Now it would be interesting to see if a downgrade to the previous version would fix this. This is quite delicate though. Do you have anyone local who could try that for you? The firmware files form the full Catalina installer should do

Just my experience:
I did an install of Catalina, but the "downgrade" did not fix the i/o board issue.

So I went ahead installing Big Sur and replaced my i/o board.

 

[lxmeta]

Just my experience:
I did an install of Catalina, but the "downgrade" did not fix the i/o board issue.

So I went ahead installing Big Sur and replaced my i/o board.

Downgrading the OS does not downgrade the firmware!
Downgrading the firmware is a more manual process and is way too delicate to suggest here over the air to someone who has not done it before, that's why I suggested to find an experienced local who can do that.
btw: Big Sur only upgraded the EFI on the late 2013 13" Retina, the SMC seems to be the same version in the latest Catalina installer as in Big Sur

 

[MacinMan]

Big Sur updates the firmware, because it also changes the boot chime. If you have upgraded to Big Sur, and your Mac had the traditional boot chime, you will notice it has changed. I don't remember seeing anyone else making note of this,and making a comment.

 

[Bmju]

Two versions of the post below have been removed from the Apple forum discussing the brick problem - who knows why, it's really not trying to be controversial!

This fix definitely works for me and works for at least some other people, see also the links here. It's definitely not a universal fix for all similar problems for all models of Mac, since some other people have said it's definitely not working for them.

"I think I have a genuine fix for this 'black screen' problem, at least for some models. It involves following the instructions for notebooks with a removable battery, from here: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201295

Of course many of the machines affected, including mine, are pre-2015 MacBook Pros which don't have a removable battery. Therefore, disconnecting the battery is a technical task which should only be carried out by a competent professional, or ideally by a Mac store.

However, I can confirm that I have been tracking beta releases of Big Sur since beta 6, and every release since 11.0.1 RC1 has repeatably caused this problem - and equally, every time, the above steps have completely and immediately fixed it."

 

[tommiy]

Nothing new in Apple removing posts that make them look bad. They did this with Catalina with it killing Macs as well. Apple does not really care about its customers and your not free to talk about your experience with the product that you purchased, at least not to Apple. I guess that is why your back to posting here.

 

[piotr_sc]

Ok, this are the firmware files that came with Big Sur. Assumption: Big Sur firmware install did go through.
Now it would be interesting to see if a downgrade to the previous version would fix this. This is quite delicate though. Do you have anyone local who could try that for you? The firmware files form the full Catalina installer should do

I thought to go down to Catalina and then upload Big Sur 11.0.1 maybe it will fix something on this I / O board. But as I can see Mr. "mknell" did a downgrade and it didn't do anything. As for uploading firmware to the System Firmware Version and SMC, I don't know anyone in the area who can do such spells.

Could someone record a video on youtube how to upload this firmware to I / O from Catalina to revive I / O plates etc. because that's how it stays, either not turning off the computer for the rest of my life, or buying an I / O board and replacing it.

 

[hackintoshi]

Just got my mid-2014 MBP back from Apple. Unable to be fixed. Got told to either find a vintage store or to buy a new macbook.

Very annoyed considering it was working perfectly fine prior to the recommended general release Big Sur update.

 

[piotr_sc]

not good, that is, they beautifully ignored the problem :-///

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Just got my mid-2014 MBP back from Apple. Unable to be fixed. Got told to either find a vintage store or to buy a new macbook.

Very annoyed considering it was working perfectly fine prior to the recommended general release Big Sur update.

As I said elsewhere, this is an update that has been virtually forced on people by Apple. I'm thinking there should be grounds for a decent class-action suit here. I would think that you are entitled to a free repair or a free replacement of an equivalent machine.