macOS High Sierra 10.13.4 Displays Warnings When Opening 32-Bit Apps as Part of Apple's Phase Out Plan

[Ener Ji]

Re "Apple supports the two prior releases": I don't think this is true anymore. They used to support 1 behind for sure, but idk if that's still the case, and there are definitely security patches that HS got that El Capitan didn't.

It seems to be an unofficial policy, but as far as I am aware it still seems to be in place. For example, the recent 2018-001 security update included SPECTRE / MELTDOWN patches for El Capitan.

It's true that Sierra and especially High Sierra received more kernel patches than El Capitan, and I'm not sure how to interpret that.

 

[Freyqq]

No more office 2011 support (it is 32 bit). That's the bigger news for me. Don't really want to buy 2016 just to appease apple.

 

[827538]

I'm really happy seeing the phase out of 64bit apps. 64bit only binaries/setups are the future, if only Windows 10 would do the same.

To those throwing their toys out the pram because they use some uber obscure program no one has heard of from two decades ago, perhaps it's time to upgrade - or blame the developer. This is a good move by Apple and it worked just fine on iOS.

Just had a look at Wikipedia, 64bit apps have been supported for 12 years now, it's about time 32bit support was killed off.

 

[casperes1996]

No more office 2011 support (it is 32 bit). That's the bigger news for me. Don't really want to buy 2016 just to appease apple.

That would appease Microsoft. Use iWork to make Apple the happier
Or just use Libre office
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out of 64bit

That typo probably should be corrected

 

[827538]

I personally have no problem with 32-bit dying. And I highly doubt Steam will not be updated first. Apple is colaborating with Valve, and using SteamVR for their VR support. Metal's VR support relies on SteamVR.



Well.... That's what the warnings are for. When you get the warning, the app still works perfectly. The warning is just telling you that that app won't work in some future update, probably 10.14 or maybe 10.15
You can also check Activity Monitor to see if your apps are 32-bit or 64-bit
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They don't inherently have to be, but if I were to make an argument for their insecurity it'd be this.

Firstly, they can't use as long encryption hashes, and secondly, since the focus is on 64-bit, the dependencies those 32-bit apps may have aren't necessarily as well tested.

I agree completely. I'm hoping Valve releasing a 64bit version of Steam for Mac OS (which they absolutely will) will encourage them to do the same for Windows.

 

[fairuz]

It seems to be an unofficial policy, but as far as I am aware it still seems to be in place. For example, the recent 2018-001 security update included SPECTRE / MELTDOWN patches for El Capitan.

It's true that Sierra and especially High Sierra received more kernel patches than El Capitan, and I'm not sure how to interpret that.

Yeah, I know the latest one was patched far back, but I think others weren't. I'm guessing they only did this because it's such an exceptional bug, with huge media coverage and huge attack vector (any website could hit you through Javascript).
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They very recently sent security updates out for El Capitan.

Replied to the other guy about this. I think they only did this in the special case of the Spectre bug.

 

[casperes1996]

Yeah, I know the latest one was patched far back, but I think others weren't. I'm guessing they only did this because it's such an exceptional bug, with huge media coverage and huge attack vector (Javascript!).

I mean, if Wikipedia is to be believed that's not the case. Not that long before Spectre and Meltdown were found out about, I was cruising some Wikipedia pages, including for some reason I can't remember the El Capitan Wiki-page, and it said "Security updates only" under supported

 

[oldmacs]

I'm really happy seeing the phase out of 64bit apps. 64bit only binaries/setups are the future, if only Windows 10 would do the same.

To those throwing their toys out the pram because they use some uber obscure program no one has heard of from two decades ago, perhaps it's time to upgrade - or blame the developer. This is a good move by Apple and it worked just fine on iOS.

Just had a look at Wikipedia, 64bit apps have been supported for 12 years now, it's about time 32bit support was killed off.

Yeah let’s make the user experience worse just because.

And no this is apple’s fault. They are the ones CHOOSING to phase out support.

Plenty of games that I play are not going to get updates and are 32 bit. Apple just likes making things more difficult for people who do more than use Thier Macs as giant iPhones to check Facebook with.

 

[fairuz]

I mean, if Wikipedia is to be believed that's not the case. Not that long before Spectre and Meltdown were found out about, I was cruising some Wikipedia pages, including for some reason I can't remember the El Capitan Wiki-page, and it said "Security updates only" under supported

You're right, there are 6 updates listed in 2017 for El Cap here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X_El_Capitan
People here were freaking out earlier about KRACK and saying we're vulnerable if we don't update, but it seems they patched that in El Capitan: http://appleinsider.com/articles/17...an-security-updates-patch-krack-wi-fi-exploit
Problem is ofc we don't know what the official policy is, whether El Capitan is supposed to receive the same security updates.

Anyway, if you stay 1-2 versions behind, you get extra time to hope there are updates to your software, but you'll still have to abandon non-updated stuff at the same rate. But for me it's out of the question due to Xcode updates randomly requiring newer macOS versions.

 

[casperes1996]

You're right, there are 6 updates listed in 2017 for El Cap here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X_El_Capitan
People here were freaking out earlier about KRACK and saying we're vulnerable if we don't update, but it seems they patched that in El Capitan: http://appleinsider.com/articles/17...an-security-updates-patch-krack-wi-fi-exploit
Problem is we don't know what the official policy is, whether El Capitan is supposed to receive the same security updates. Anyway, if you stay 1-2 versions behind, you get extra time to hope there are updates to your software, but you'll still have to abandon non-updated stuff at the same rate.

That's good news then .
You're of course right that it's difficult to tell someone that they should bet their life's savings on it continuing to be this way, since it isn't something Apple has, to my knowledge, officially stated, but it does appear to be the trend - and yes, you're right. It is just prolonging the inevitable, but from the moment 64-bit was introduced, we knew that it'd just be about time before everything was 64-bit, so the question isn't if, but when, and those extra few years could be enough.

 

[whooleytoo]

Just checked mine using the System Information app, very few 32bit apps but there are a few that I might miss, including Braid (don't see a 64 bit version).

Presumably if I run Sierra in a virtual machine on Mac, I'll still be able to run 32 bit apps well into the future.

 

[Quu]

Cause some stuff doesn't get updated ever, especially games. I play games rarely and almost never buy new ones (else I'd use Windows lol), and it really sucks updating my OS and finding that my favorite game no longer works. Many games have no replacement, like Rome Total War (RTW 2 sucks). So I'm afraid to update, and I'm sure many are in the same boat, but I'm also aware of the security risks of staying outdated while others are not.

You make a great point. I personally do not game on my Mac so I didn't consider older titles that will become unplayable.

I do game on a Windows PC so like you if Microsoft suddenly stopped supporting 32-bit software I would be seriously pissed off for that reason.

 

[casperes1996]

Presumably if I run Sierra in a virtual machine on Mac, I'll still be able to run 32 bit apps well into the future.

Wouldn't have to be Sierra. Could be High Sierra too. 32-biti apps haven't been killed off in HS.

 

[fairuz]

You make a great point. I personally do not game on my Mac so I didn't consider older titles that will become unplayable.

I do game on a Windows PC so like you if Microsoft suddenly stopped supporting 32-bit software I would be seriously pissed off for that reason.

It would be especially bad in Windows because for some reason some devs are still making 32-bit-only software for it. Maybe I've got a limited perspective... I've never known of any difficulty compiling for 64-bit other than changing my build settings

Or maybe some people are still relying on non-portable stuff like "type punning" in C, like in this legendary and hilarious example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root

 

[casperes1996]

I seriously doubt the latest Hitman only runs 5-10% slower on Mac (no doubt using an OpenGL wrapper) vs DX12 on Windows. I wish Apple would support Vulkan, it would allow an amazing level of cross platform compatibility while also supporting an extremely capable and efficient API instead of Metal which is Mac only and unlikely to feature any real support from major games.

It uses Metal as its renderer. The speed difference diminishes at higher resolutions as well

If you are dependant upon software to your business that isn't being supported with a 64bit binary then you have been pretty negligent in your duties to running the business. 64bit software has been around for over a decade on Mac, Windows and Linux, the writing has been on the wall for a long time now, this day was going to happen. Once a decade is more than enough time to migrate to a newer system/software.

A lot of businesses rely on old software, and businesses generally don't like to update. Updating means new bugs and downtime, and you don't want downtime. Not just do I know businesses that rely on 32-bit binaries. I know businesses that keep computers from the early 80's around as their machinery only interfaces with the software on those computers.

 

[thingstoponder]

Will this kill the ability to emulate 32 bit operating systems in virtual machines?
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They’ll stop working in 10.15. So, ~September 2019. And of course, you won’t have to upgrade right away.

Are you sure about this? I would expect 10.14 to be the last.

 

[KPOM]

That would appease Microsoft. Use iWork to make Apple the happier
Or just use Libre office
[doublepost=1516842701][/doublepost]


That typo probably should be corrected

128-bit apps FTW!

 

[KPOM]

Will this kill the ability to emulate 32 bit operating systems in virtual machines?

It shouldn’t. Programs like Parallels Desktop work by mimicking a reference set of hardware in software. When OS X phased out support for Rosetta people used Parallels to install older versions.

 

[KPOM]

It would be especially bad in Windows because for some reason some devs are still making 32-bit-only software for it. Maybe I've got a limited perspective... I've never known of any difficulty compiling for 64-bit other than changing my build settings

Or maybe some people are still relying on non-portable stuff like "type punning" in C, like in this legendary and hilarious example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root

Even worse, Microsoft’s second attempt at Windows on ARM can emulate only the 32-bit x86 architecture, not the newer x64. So if ARM-based Windows PCs take off, expect 32-bit code to hang around longer.

 

[LordVic]

You make a great point. I personally do not game on my Mac so I didn't consider older titles that will become unplayable.

I do game on a Windows PC so like you if Microsoft suddenly stopped supporting 32-bit software I would be seriously pissed off for that reason.

Just think of all those old games in our steam libraries we’d never be able to play again...

just because a game is old, doesn’t make it bad or unplayable today

I just replayed KOTOR and KOTOR 2. Amazing games. But if the people screaming that 32bit support has to die for “reasons” (and none of them are true reasons! They just believe newer = better), all of these older, but quality games would be completely unplayable.


Apple dropping 32bit support is a cost savings method. Less dev time needed on future updates. But nothing to do with consumer side of using our devices
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I seriously doubt the latest Hitman only runs 5-10% slower on Mac (no doubt using an OpenGL wrapper) vs DX12 on Windows. I wish Apple would support Vulkan, it would allow an amazing level of cross platform compatibility while also supporting an extremely capable and efficient API instead of Metal which is Mac only and unlikely to feature any real support from major games.
If you are dependant upon software to your business that isn't being supported with a 64bit binary then you have been pretty negligent in your duties to running the business. 64bit software has been around for over a decade on Mac, Windows and Linux, the writing has been on the wall for a long time now, this day was going to happen. Once a decade is more than enough time to migrate to a newer system/software.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about in the corporation and enterprise world, where companies have millions invested in proprietary software solutions..

You think banks and financial institutions are going to want to spend millions every couple years on extremely risky software migrations? Just because an the program is 32bit?

From my professional experience as a subject matter expert in financial software and banks. You’re 100% wrong. They might do some odd functionality updates to their back end. But a full 32bit to 64bit conversion is an intense and costly adventure that is extremely high risk, and depending on size of data, could be hours, if not days of downtime.

I had one client running on a 20 year 32bit dB. It was nearly 100tb. We did a test conversion. 3 weeks. 3 weeks of downtime would shut the business.

 

[lec0rsaire]

Just keep or buy an older machine strictly for 32-bit apps. We’ve been in the 64-bit era for a while now. It’s hard to let go of some favorite programs and games for sure but we should always be looking towards the future. Look at the hard time MS had getting people to stop using XP introduced back in ‘01.

Apple already did this on iOS and the majority of worthwhile apps have all been updated with 64-bit support. I can understand not wanting to buy Office 2016 but a new version of Office is around the corner. Do you really want to be using such a version that will be two behind pretty soon?

 

[LordVic]

Just keep or buy an older machine strictly for 32-bit apps. We’ve been in the 64-bit era for a while now. It’s hard to let go of some favorite programs and games for sure but we should always be looking towards the future. Look at the hard time MS had getting people to stop using XP introduced back in ‘01.

Apple already did this on iOS and the majority of worthwhile apps have all been updated with 64-bit support. I can understand not wanting to buy Office 2016 but a new version of Office is around the corner. Do you really want to be using such a version that will be two behind pretty soon?

That depends, does that 2 version behind software do everything you need it?

If yes? Than why buy an upgrade? In this case, it’s being forced by an outside factor. Apple dropping 32bit support. So a user of word 2013, might be 100% satisfies with his $150 software purchase 4 years ago, and has no desire to respond that much money just because Apple doesn’t want to spend a few cycles to provide backwasrds compatibility.

This isn’t new from Apple though, so nobody should be surprised when it happens. It’s also why Apple has a hard time making headway’s into certain computer markets, such as gaming or enterprise

 

[ChrisA]

If you really need to run a 32 bit app. Then get an older version of MacOS and run it inside a virtual machine. I still have a copy of Windows XP inside a VM that I can run on my iMac.

 

[imasterus]

Just checked my third-party applications - all of them are 64-bit ones!

 

[Tech198]

This actually comes at a bad time on Mac.. when open source on the Mac is vastly bigger compared to the smaller gap that can be run on iOS.

Less of an issue.

Lucky all of mine are too
(About this Mac >> System Report >> Software >>>Applications.)