Depending on how they wrote the software, the driver may no longer be compatible with Tahoe. And given that this standard hasn’t been touched for well over a decade, yeah it is of little surprise that Apple will remove them.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
macOS Tahoe Beta Drops FireWire Support
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
What the FireWire adapter is doing is basically adding a FireWire OHCI Controller connected over PCI Express. It's just like plugging in a PCI-Express expansion card on a desktop computer, and Thunderbolt is fundamentally exposing PCI-E lanes over external connectors.
This "dropping" of FireWire support is just Apple deleting the drivers for FireWire controllers and the generic device support drivers for FireWire devices.
Last edited:
That was mostly Apple dropping Universal Binary and leaving all apps on x86 code (32 bit) and x86-64 (64 bit) only.
Drivers for PowerPC were never on Intel Macs in the first place since they obviously can't and won't run those code
This is not good. Audio boxes are still in use with Firewire and those are hardly ever replaces and cost a lot to do so. Audio tech is slow to change over. I still have lots of Firewire tech and any older video cameras also use it. So archiving etc. would be impossible on a new Mac.
I don't understand why Apple would even think of doing this. Leave Firewire alone for those who need it.
I don't understand why Apple would even think of doing this. Leave Firewire alone for those who need it.
Other than the fact that it's completely obsolete tech you're right. Is Apple supposed to support all obsolete tech ad infinitum? How about SCSI drives? Perhaps dvd/cd-rom drives?
*Bold typeface added by me
Help an ignorant person to understand. I'm assuming you access those firewire devices via a thunderbolt or usb adapter? When doing so, does the Mac rely on firewire drivers or strictly the thunderbolt or usb drivers?
Hmm hope it's still compatible, I use firewire from time to time.
Firewire isn't completely obsolete tech - it is used by plenty especially in audio.
They do support DVD/CD Rom drives - I'm using one right now in Sequoia to import data.
Firewire isn't completely obsolete tech - it is used by plenty especially in audio.
They do support DVD/CD Rom drives - I'm using one right now in Sequoia to import data.
Last edited:
Don't upgrade then. You've got like 2-3 years from today to sort out your migration plan.
Thank you. This is the only correct answer in this thread. Apple’s TB to FireWire dongle is/was a 1394b host controller chip with everything that would normally be on a PCI-e card miniaturized. FireWire is an IEEE standard that Apple invented, so you could also pickup almost any off the shelf FireWire PCI-e card, pop it into a TB to PCI-e chassis (or PCI-e slot in a AS MacPro) and it will just work with macOS.
This isn’t like removing support for legacy ports like ADB in 10.6 which made sense because it was Intel only and no Intel based Mac would never have an ADB bus and ADB can be converted to USB inline. FireWire requires a controller that talks to the system.
FireWire may be dead from a modern standpoint, but it was a cornerstone of film, video and audio production for decades during and after the move from analog to digital production. There’s a lot of media that stands to be lost by not keeping a way to easily access it.
No problem. Actually, I access them via Firewire ports on the Mac itself currently (Mac Pro 2010). But can also do it through a PCI Firewire card on any Mac Pro including M2 or a Thunderbolt 2 to Firewire adapter on the Macbook Pro. There is no such thing as a USB to Firewire adapter. Not technically possible since they are completely different working standards and protocols.
As far as I understand it: no drivers = no Firewire devices will work via any means. The OS support needs to be there. Technically, you can just put a PCI Express Firewire card in the Mac Pro M2 and have native Firewire connections. If this continues to stay true about macOS Tahoe, with Firewire drivers and support removed, that PCI card will be worthless in any Mac Pro running Tahoe.
Everyone needs to email/write Apple about how valuable Firewire support is via official feedback channels!
If you're fine with producing audio with a pretty old firewire device, you can probably also do perfectly fine with an OS and a Mac that's older than 2025.
If anybody had firewire devices AND bought a Mac recently to use them and can't upgrade the OS, that's kinda bad but I don't think it's a very common scenario. Most times I see people with a lot of old audio gear, they also have a G5 PowerMac or something similar because they never felt the need to upgrade.
Ok so you said the driver was removed. What would be their impact to all the FireWire dongles and adapters? Do they need the soon to be gone FireWire drivers to function? Or they have been treated as a different device altogether?
I hope they don't drop firewire support because I use an iSight as a webcam and love it 
Can you give any actual examples of industries that are relying on legacy firewire devices?
isn't Continuity Camera WAY better by now? I have an old iSight laying around as well, but that 640×480 resolution isn't really cutting it anymore these days.I hope they don't drop firewire support because I use an iSight as a webcam and love it
Kinda bittersweet to see FireWire support disappearing. I get that it's super outdated, but it still feels like the end of a chapter for early iPod and Mac users. That old iPod Classic collecting dust in my drawer might finally be out of luck. Wonder if this is just a temporary thing in the beta or a permanent goodbye?
Have you not read through the thread? Many examples have been posted of people still reliant on audio devices, scanners and cameras that don’t have direct/equivalent replacements using USB or other connectors.
cameron wrote in reply 64:
"You can't write HFS+ anymore but you can still read it, I believe."
Sequoia still "writes" HFS+ just fine. I have 3 HFS+ hard partitions on my new m4 Mini along with the APFS boot and data partitions.
Don't know about Tahoe, haven't attempted to try it yet (not until public beta 2 at least)...
"You can't write HFS+ anymore but you can still read it, I believe."
Sequoia still "writes" HFS+ just fine. I have 3 HFS+ hard partitions on my new m4 Mini along with the APFS boot and data partitions.
Don't know about Tahoe, haven't attempted to try it yet (not until public beta 2 at least)...
No.
640x480 is MORE than enough for a webcam. Nobody wants to see my ugly mug at 1080p.
YES.
Apple isn't a small startup that doesn't have the ability to continue to support everything they've ever done. Intentionally breaking hardware by removing support that costs them practically nothing to maintain is disgusting behavior, and they need to be called out for it.
Yes but iPhone is heavier too. 200+ grams. I don’t know the weight of that iSight camera but I seriously doubt they are heavier than iPhone today. Plus how can you use continuity camera on your MacBook safely?
It's the "good enough" factor.
An old Firewire interface like this can still handle 10 channels of 96kHz, 24 bit audio. The Mk1 Human Ear hasn't been upgraded in the last 20 years, still tops out at 20 kHz or so - meaning raising the sample rate above about 40kHz brings rapidly diminishing returns, so 96kHz gives plenty of headroom. The potentially expensive bits in the interface are the analogue pre-amps and stuff, which have been a mature tech for longer than Firewire...
There are - however - plenty of other advantages to having a modern Mac for audio production, such as faster processing, enough power for more audio effects and plug-ins - plus better graphics and video processing if you're doing multimedia work... but little or no advantage to "upgrading" your audio interface beyond FireWire or USB 2.0.
Even modern best in class interfaces ($2000+) use USB 2.0, as the bandwidth is more than what is necessary even for 24/768kHz audio, which is FAR more than most studios are using.
This whole thing would make me think twice about buying any piece of equipment that uses Thunderbolt, though. Same thing, would be so easy for someone to simply disable support many years down the line. USB isn’t going anywhere though.