I've got one device - brand new and recently released in 2023 - that only uses USB 1 - but that's doing MIDI rather than audio, so the bandwidth is tiny (31kbps) by modern standards.
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macOS Tahoe Beta Drops FireWire Support
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You don't need to worry about that. As of USB 4.0, Thunderbolt has been embodied into the USB spec. They are still separate specifications, but USB 4 is essentially Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4 is pretty much just a label for USB 4 ports/devices that can support 40Gbps, 2x display port streams and at least 15W power delivery. USB 4 at its minimum spec can handle almost all Thunderbolt 3 devices, and Thunderbolt 4/5 devices that are backward compatible with Thunderbolt 3 will work with USB 4 just at a lower speed. The only thing I am not sure about are Thunderbolt 1/2 devices connected with an adapter, if those work with USB 4.
So I’m also working, how difficult would it be for someone to write third party drivers for FireWire? Let’s say, someone made a DV importer app that contains a driver specifically for the FireWire to Thunderbolt adapter rather than relying on native FireWire support.
Theoretically you can just install the drivers for the adapter and the devices, but drivers are not readily available for them due to the drivers previously built-in to the OS (so manufacturers don't bother making them available), and Apple locks down the OS so much that it's hard or impossible to install third party drivers these days.
I think the only file system Apple dropped was HFS (no plus), also known as "Mac OS Standard", and that happened on Catalina
Agreed, more modern Macs can be good, but I think there is plenty of them to choose from that are still compatible, some even overkill for most audio productions scenarios.
Again, I think we're talking of a small subset of the few owners of some specific devices for a pretty specific use case from many years ago.
Apple can make like a few dozens of people sad sometimes.
Sadly, I'm thinking this is not a fluke of the first the beta and is intentional because if you open the "System Information" app on Sequoia, there's a device tab for FireWire that shows up even if you don't have any FireWire devices connected and that tab is not present in the "System Information" app on Tahoe.
Edit: The article says "System Settings" and think the author meant "System Information".
Edit: The article says "System Settings" and think the author meant "System Information".
We went through the same issue when Apple dropped support for the SCSI protocol. But the solution was easy, buy a new compatible drive and transfer the files. With Firewire we're trying to connect hardware that is no longer produced, like Nikon film scanners. There is no quality substitute.
Please tell me what is on each end of that cable. I can't remember anything that would be compatible.
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Yeah I still have an HFS+ spinner or two in my enclosure. I did have to install MacFuse to mount
some old disk images and data partitions on some older OS8/9 era CD-ROMs I still have though.
Lol at the reactions. I'm not saying its good or bad, it's just a fact.
Sure - but as of Q4 this year, every newly bought Mac will ship with Tahoe, and not long after that, the latest version of Logic Pro will probably require Tahoe. You can stick on an old version of MacOS for a while - but it can rapidly become an uphill struggle that means sticking with outdated versions of everything and having a forced upgrade when you buy a new machine.
A bit like the small subset of owners who actually want AI and see-through windows, then?
But seriously, we're also only talking about retaining software support for a generic, well-standardised (OHCI) type of controller chip - it's not like anybody is asking for the physical interface to re-appear.
Of course, this may be a storm in a teacup - just a glitch in the beta - but the idea that a feature like this can just vanish without fanfare and without any clear reason is a concern... I mean, if it had died with a big overhaul, like the introduction of Apple Silicon, the end of 32 bit support, or the introduction of TB3/4/5 then that would be undeerstandable. But this sounds like a classic "Chesterton's fence" decision by someone at Apple (and supported by many people in this thread).
People on this forum will do a lot to handwave or even justify actions by their personal friend, the trillion dollar tech company, that would be considered absolutely despicable and consumer unfriendly by anyone who can take an objective view. Parasocial and sycophantic behavior at its finest.Sure - but as of Q4 this year, every newly bought Mac will ship with Tahoe, and not long after that, the latest version of Logic Pro will probably require Tahoe. You can stick on an old version of MacOS for a while - but it can rapidly become an uphill struggle that means sticking with outdated versions of everything and having a forced upgrade when you buy a new machine.
A bit like the small subset of owners who actually want AI and see-through windows, then?
But seriously, we're also only talking about retaining software support for a generic, well-standardised (OHCI) type of controller chip - it's not like anybody is asking for the physical interface to re-appear.
Of course, this may be a storm in a teacup - just a glitch in the beta - but the idea that a feature like this can just vanish without fanfare and without any clear reason is a concern... I mean, if it had died with a big overhaul, like the introduction of Apple Silicon, the end of 32 bit support, or the introduction of TB3/4/5 then that would be undeerstandable. But this sounds like a classic "Chesterton's fence" decision by someone at Apple (and supported by many people in this thread).
so keep an old $100 macbook air handy? you act like its impossible to maintain a workflow if needed.
Well, the built-iniSight in the MacBook is a better webcam than the standalone iSight was... and as I mentioned (I think?) I know this first hand
Which - in a year's time - probably won't be able to run the latest version of Logic...?
Does whatever version of Logic you are running get the bills paid? Then there isn't a crushing need to update is there? You don't have to play the 'I need the new shiny stuff' game all the time, once in awhile you can exercise some self control and just use the tools you have..
People act like this is something new. You can tell who just recently switched to Apple with no idea about PowerPC's, Intels, etc. Hell in 1999 my Win98 Cubase VST setup on an old Pentium 233 was perfect, but nothing lasts forever..
Still have an old G-Tech drive enclosure with a flaky USB 3 connector...but a perfectly functional FW800 port. It's currently home to a 2TB SATA SSD. Seems like I'll finally need to relocate it to a different enclosure. But USB 3 is dog water, due to the high cpu load. And I have yet to find a Thunderbolt 2.5" SATA drive enclosure.
ah, legacy audio interfaces, not file transfers... wellp... probably stuck on legacy software then.
i guess it finally pays off to have gone with a model with dual interface.
You can literally use this years MacBook Air with Sequoia, which will usually support Logic for at least a couple of years still, and if not, use a virtual machine on that MacBook Air or use the MacBook Air as a bridge between a newer one and and that one.
Er, think about that... people who "recently switched to Apple with no idea about PowerPC's, Intels, etc." wouldn't know a Firewire port from a hole in the ground. The devices in question were mostly bought for PowerPC or pre-Thunderbolt Intel Macs.
Somehow, the Firewire driver support survived through the introduction of Mac OS X, the switch from PowerPC to Intel, the introduction of Thunderbolt and USB C, the end of 32 bit support, the switch to T1/T2 architecture and the move to Apple Silicon.
Then, suddenly, they add a new UI skin and the FireWire drivers are gone, for no adequately explored reason... they weren't taking up significant resources, it's hard to believe that they've suddenly developed bugs - maybe its just a glitch and they'll be back - but it's clear that plenty of people here are in the "We don't need that so nobody does, and we know better than them whether they need a new Mac" camp.
There are plenty of compelling reasons to upgrade to a new Mac if you have anything older than an M2... and Logic is getting small but useful updates all or the time (but often only for the last 2 OS versions). As I already said - modern systems can run more software instruments, more effects, render audio more rapidly, do all sorts of sophisticated stem separation tricks etc. etc. that older hardware couldn't cope with - but the meatspace interface is still 48 - 96kHz, 16-24 bit sigital audio which Firewire can eat for breakfast. Heck, half the analogue audio kit people hang of their Macs is based on classic 1970s/80s designs.
...but this isn't about wanting to run outdated sequencer/DAW software that was written for a long-dead, only-kinda-sorta 32 bit operating system that couldn't cope with modern soft instruments/effects or huge sample banks. It's not about putting PCI (not PCIe) slots into modern Macs so you can plug in your Soundblaster Live card (although the functionality of that would probably still be perfectly adequate today).
No, this is about suddenly dropping software support for generic, well-standardised OHCI Firewire interfaces that is apparently still working perfectly well on the current, perfectly modern version of MacOS on current Mac hardware. It doesn't seem to be linked to any new quantum leap in hardware or OS that might provide a good justification for dropping support.
It's the difference between removing optical, Zip and floppy drives from Macs (which happened years ago, and was perfectly sensible) and removing support for those devices via USB etc. (which I know was working fine a few months ago because I was using all three).
Or maybe Apple could just fix the drivers in Taho? You know, the ones that were working perfectly well on ARM64, M4 architecture, rootless MacOS until just now?
Do you have a screenshot? I’m also wondering if SCSI is still supported or not in Tahoe, as surprisingly Sequoia still has a SCSI tab even though Apple has not made a computer with a SCSI port for 25 years now.
FireWire to usb does not exist! You mean Thunderbolt.