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My MOTU 828mkII FW that worked fine over Sequoia no longer functions over Tahoe — I won't bore anyone with all of the things that I tried—and some of the processes did run—but macOS 26 prevented my interface from working. Throwing in the towel.
Wait, without AppleFWAudio.kext injection?
 
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Wait, without AppleFWAudio.kext injection?
All four of the AppleFW kexts are present. They do not want it to work.
 

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That is incorrect. IOFirewireFamiy.kext allows Sequoia and previous macOS to support FireWire if you have compatible 3rd party drivers and a compatible adapter. My MOTU 828mkII FW Audio/MIDI interface works fine over Sequoia, for example. The kext is found in MacintoshHD/System/Library/Extensions — this Library folder cannot normally be added to, unlike the HD/Library and Users/…/Library folders.

View attachment 2524144

My Tahoe Test drive still contains the extension since I updated the OS from Sequoia.

View attachment 2524149

In fact, all of the FW extensions are still present.

View attachment 2524153

My MOTU 828mkII FW that worked fine over Sequoia no longer functions over Tahoe — I won't bore anyone with all of the things that I tried—and some of the processes did run—but macOS 26 prevented my interface from working. Throwing in the towel.

CoreAudio FW support was removed in Ventura. This means that FW hard drives, DVD writers etc. that do not have drivers will not work. I have an old FW box for external drives and burners that stopped working in Ventura.
Could that kext be employed via OpenCore Legacy Patcher?
 
The day is coming.
If people on this thread could verify that FW really does not work, with official version?

I do have several fw-hdd's.
And a few seagate's with interchangeable connection.
I'm used to use FW since it has been more reliable with macs than usb(3) or eSata.
(By far, the most reliable way to connect a hard drive mac, was sata-extension cord to cMP drive bay.
Maybe I should find a spot for headless cMP, that could be used as a hdd-dock and blu-ray...)

I'm still using this:
Because it works. (Sold, IIRC, 2004-2007)
And there never were any better.
Change from sdtv to hdtv "just worked".
Although the software is bad, after they sold all tv stuff to Geniatech.
Which just released EyeTV4 and never developed it any further. Zero effort.
But they maintain the support for newer macOS versions.
Btw, I do not know if there is another dvb-c tuner that works with macs sold today.
Geniatech's sticj has been "sold out" for quite some time...

Of course I have few of those iconic iSights...

So, this is not just about iPods (I never owned one) or audio gear...
 
The day is coming.
If people on this thread could verify that FW really does not work, with official version?

I do have several fw-hdd's.
And a few seagate's with interchangeable connection.
I'm used to use FW since it has been more reliable with macs than usb(3) or eSata.
(By far, the most reliable way to connect a hard drive mac, was sata-extension cord to cMP drive bay.
Maybe I should find a spot for headless cMP, that could be used as a hdd-dock and blu-ray...)

I'm still using this:
Because it works. (Sold, IIRC, 2004-2007)
And there never were any better.
Change from sdtv to hdtv "just worked".
Although the software is bad, after they sold all tv stuff to Geniatech.
Which just released EyeTV4 and never developed it any further. Zero effort.
But they maintain the support for newer macOS versions.
Btw, I do not know if there is another dvb-c tuner that works with macs sold today.
Geniatech's sticj has been "sold out" for quite some time...

Of course I have few of those iconic iSights...

So, this is not just about iPods (I never owned one) or audio gear...
I would like to know too if FireWire is still missing in the release candidate. If not, then we need to be louder than when we first discovered that FireWire was missing.
 
The day is coming.
If people on this thread could verify that FW really does not work, with official version?

I do have several fw-hdd's.
And a few seagate's with interchangeable connection.
I'm used to use FW since it has been more reliable with macs than usb(3) or eSata.
(By far, the most reliable way to connect a hard drive mac, was sata-extension cord to cMP drive bay.
Maybe I should find a spot for headless cMP, that could be used as a hdd-dock and blu-ray...)

I'm still using this:
Because it works. (Sold, IIRC, 2004-2007)
And there never were any better.
Change from sdtv to hdtv "just worked".
Although the software is bad, after they sold all tv stuff to Geniatech.
Which just released EyeTV4 and never developed it any further. Zero effort.
But they maintain the support for newer macOS versions.
Btw, I do not know if there is another dvb-c tuner that works with macs sold today.
Geniatech's sticj has been "sold out" for quite some time...

Of course I have few of those iconic iSights...

So, this is not just about iPods (I never owned one) or audio gear...
HA! I had this exact setup as well for a very long time - amazing to see it still working, congrats!
 
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Or better, get a windows/Linux PC where functionality of devices that work one day aren’t patched out of usability the next

Debian 13 seemed to drop FireWire support, when Debian 12 worked just fine with my second gen iPod.
 
I would like to know too if FireWire is still missing in the release candidate. If not, then we need to be louder than when we first discovered that FireWire was missing.
Can confirm FireWire support is missing in the full release. I’m sticking with Sequoia 🤷‍♂️
 
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Firewire was essentially deprecated in 2012 and is vulnerable to DMA attacks on the host.

Don't expect it to come back, and don't expect any other modern platform to support it in the future.

If you need it for old peripherals you're going to need to run older platforms.

https://www.cert-ist.com/public/en/SO_detail?code=firewirevulnerability


It's not fixable with a patch:

From a security perspective, that feature is actually a design flaw inherent to the Firewire protocol.
 
Firewire was essentially deprecated in 2012 and is vulnerable to DMA attacks on the host.

Don't expect it to come back, and don't expect any other modern platform to support it in the future.

If you need it for old peripherals you're going to need to run older platforms.

https://www.cert-ist.com/public/en/SO_detail?code=firewirevulnerability


It's not fixable with a patch:
That’s a sorry excuse and you know it. Apple is a trillion dollar corp. You think they can’t figure out a method to make it work securely?

That page you linked says the vulnerability was discovered around 2008. So you’re telling me this has been a known issue for nearly twenty years? Why are they only removing it now? Why didn’t they use this time to get it working securely?

Intel pulled the same crap when they removed TB1/2 support from their TB4 controller. Just like Apple, they did it sneakily without telling anyone.

You know what I think? They want us to buy buy buy new new new!

The acceptance of this behavior by us, the consumers, only strengthens the resolve of them, the corporations to continue screwing us more and more.
 
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That’s a sorry excuse and you know it. Apple is a trillion dollar corp. You think they can’t figure out a method to make it work securely?

As the security problem is part of the protocol - no, not without breaking firewire - fix the issue and firewire doesn't work any more because it is no longer compatible with the protocol.

And yes, this is no doubt part of the reason firewire was deprecated in 2012 once thunderbolt became available.
 
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That page you linked says the vulnerability was discovered around 2008. So you’re telling me this has been a known issue for nearly twenty years? Why are they only removing it now? Why didn’t they use this time to get it working securely?

Yes, however it went from more theoretical to practical in the intervening time, and apple focused more heavily on security.

If you think there aren't other ancient theoretical and then later practical vulnerabilities in the software you use, then you might want to get educated.

As far as intel dropping thunderbolt 2 support with thunderbolt 4, that's because v4 of the protocol includes more protection against DMA vulnerabilities (similar to the ones found in firewire).

If they did not drop thunderbolt 2 support which doesn't support those protections - again, vulnerability in the product. For every user with the port on their machine, whether they ever used thunderbolt themselves or not!

Do companies want you to buy new stuff? Yes. However fixing major security problems by dropping support for 10-15 year old hardware (firewire case) is totally valid. If you're that desperate to continue using half duplex 800 megabit connectivity - use an older machine.
 
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Yes, however it went from more theoretical to practical in the intervening time, and apple focused more heavily on security.

If you think there aren't other ancient theoretical and then later practical vulnerabilities in the software you use, then you might want to get educated.

As far as intel dropping thunderbolt 2 support with thunderbolt 3, that's because v4 of the protocol includes more protection against DMA vulnerabilities (similar to the ones found in firewire).

If they did not drop thunderbolt 2 support which doesn't support those protections - again, vulnerability in the product. For every user with the port on their machine, whether they ever used thunderbolt themselves or not!

Do companies want you to buy new stuff? Yes. However fixing major security problems by dropping support for 10-15 year old hardware (firewire case) is totally valid. If you're that desperate to continue using half duplex 800 megabit connectivity - use an older machine.
I will admit, I let my emotions get the better of me in my previous message. When looking at it from a logical perspective, what you are saying makes complete sense.

I apologize for being a bit harsh with my response, I suppose just have trouble letting go of the past. I appreciate your long and thoughtful responses. You bring up some extremely valid points.

You’re definitely right, it’s not the end of the world. I can just buy an old MacBook for cheap and use it to interface with my retro technology. I do want to upgrade to Tahoe, I am a huge fan of the visual changes. I just wish Apple held off on removing support for one more version!

My desktop PC is running the TB4 firmware that still supports TB1/2. I know it’s insecure but my general consensus is that if there is someone in my house messing with my PC, then I have a lot more to worry about than my PC getting hacked. As for a portable device like my MacBook, well, I can definitely see the problem with having insecure ports.
 
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Can confirm FireWire support is missing in the full release. I’m sticking with Sequoia 🤷‍♂️
Exactly. I can confirm the same.

Having sold all of my FW peripherals over the last few months, it is academic at this point. That said, I will wait a few months before updating—except on my Tahoe test Volume, of course.

Some of my bread and butter apps still do not play nicely with macOS 26. Now that it is released, some developers need to get off the stick. With one exception, I expect that they will.
 
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My desktop PC is running the TB4 firmware that still supports TB1/2. I know it’s insecure but my general consensus is that if there is someone in my house messing with my PC,
It's probably slightly less worrisome on a desktop, but laptops end up in public spaces and sometimes unattended. Think baggage. TSA/border control, etc. could own your machine via thunderbolt device while you're at the airport.

Or "evil maid" attack in your hotel room, while you're at dinner. etc.

Far fetched? For most people yes, but there are people who are targeted by governments who do use these products. They need this level of protection.

This is the world we live in unfortunately.
 
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Exactly. I can confirm the same.

Having sold all of my FW peripherals over the last few months, it is academic at this point...
Yeah - I'm irked only because it really doesn't cost much to keep it supported, I'd venture it likely got scrapped on the altar of Kernel efficiency or something. I think I personally stopped using my last FW device interface a couple years ago.

But, to reference Apple's own marketing, Mother Earth wouldn't be pleased. Yes, my old FW400/800 drives and enclosures don't have the fastest interface on earth, yes most of this equipment is now over a decade old, but really, for a set of folks, it works enough. Unless there's dual FW/USB interfaces to take advantage of, it's into the landfill this goes -- not everyone has the foresight to do electronics recycling, and in some communities this costs money to accomplish.

EDIT: AND, Apple also tried to make FW a cross-platform industry standard as well, so that stings.
 
Yeah - I'm irked only because it really doesn't cost much to keep it supported, I'd venture it likely got scrapped on the altar of Kernel efficiency or something. I think I personally stopped using my last FW device interface a couple years ago.

But, to reference Apple's own marketing, Mother Earth wouldn't be pleased. Yes, my old FW400/800 drives and enclosures don't have the fastest interface on earth, yes most of this equipment is now over a decade old, but really, for a set of folks, it works enough. Unless there's dual FW/USB interfaces to take advantage of, it's into the landfill this goes -- not everyone has the foresight to do electronics recycling, and in some communities this costs money to accomplish.

EDIT: AND, Apple also tried to make FW a cross-platform industry standard as well, so that stings.
at least take it to a thrift shop. nerds are still hunting for some of this stuff.
 
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EDIT: AND, Apple also tried to make FW a cross-platform industry standard as well, so that stings.

It was standardised for non-lowest bidder devices (like PCs which just used USB because it was cheap).

Firewire (brand name) was standardised as IEEE1394, used as a variant in military equipment and also as the link cable for the PS2.

The aerospace version of the standard is AS5643 and lives on inside the F-35, X47, AGM-154 and other stuff.


But... time moves on. People aren't likely to get physical plug access to the ports in the F-35 avionics suite without getting through many levels of physical security (get onto airbase, get into hangar, smuggle a laptop into the cockpit or whatever); laptop in checked baggage or left in a hotel room: different story.
 
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Firewire (brand name) was standardised as IEEE1394, used as a variant in military equipment and also as the link cable for the PS2.

The aerospace version of the standard is AS5643 and lives on inside the F-35, X47, AGM-154 and other stuff.
This has to be one of the most cool facts I’ve ever learned on this forum in over 15 years. That’s really interesting, and thank you!
 
As the security problem is part of the protocol - no, not without breaking firewire - fix the issue and firewire doesn't work any more because it is no longer compatible with the protocol.

And yes, this is no doubt part of the reason firewire was deprecated in 2012 once thunderbolt became available.
A bit funny though, that Apple supported using FW until now, 2025.
And still, at least within EU laws, they have to support Sequoia 3 more years.
So, the deadly vulnerability discovered in 2008 and supported till 2028.

Interesting take on security!
 
If people on this thread could verify that FW really does not work, with official version?
Beehn verified over and over and over and...
Yikes. I have so many legacy projects on FireWire 800.

Any chance a hack is released ?
No chance at all — many of us have tried.

Keep an old Mac around; transfer to something newer than 2012; many options...
 
"Official" version was released 5 days ago.
You can't verify it before it's released.
Uh... reread the date. I posted 3 days AFTER the release date. It is now 5 days after.

I'll use big letters: Again, IT'S BEEN VERIFIED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND...

FireWire no longer works over macOS Tahoe. Apple said it wouldn't and they are right!!!!


Many of us have tried to engineer a workaround. No one has been successful.


So, how many more ways are you going to ask this?
 
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