I don't know what makes you think I am a lier and you are clairvoyant. One thing is for sure, you are wrong and you are arrogant.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
MacPro bashing
- Thread starter jameskohn
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I don't know what makes you think I am a lier and you are clairvoyant. One thing is for sure, you are wrong and you are arrogant.
Maybe they're going to drop the Mac Pro line
Nah, I think with a huge wait like this, Apple probably have something really big up their sleeves.
I hope you are right.
Even if it's not a huuuuuge difference from what it is now, as I just said in another thread on the issue, it's better that they take the extra time and get it right. It's possible they're having technical problems, or doing some very thorough testing, either way it's better done properly than rushed out of the door with loads of problems.
Take the extra time for what? Drop the prices? Upgrade the base and the mid model to a Quad 2.66 and 3GHz respectively? 16 months not long enough to do at least that?
as I said earlier, I am the first to hope the next models are released soon with better specs and better pricing.
Honestly, I think we're going to see a new enclosure. The current one is good, but it is now 4 years and 5 months old...
visual stagnation? At Apple?
visual stagnation? At Apple?
Yeah, I agree. For me though, "it can't be more then a couple of months" has held me off from purchasing for about 1/2 a year. At this point though I'm really feeling the age in my Powermac. Particularly in regard to the promise of a Intel based workstation and the ability to dual boot windows.
With windows I'll be able to use programs like Solid Works, Altium Designer, and PCB123. Oh and some windows only fitness/health management software called Crosstrainer. For all of these there simply isn't any valid alternative for OSX.
I'm hanging by a thread stevie! And not to harp on the video card, but I'm not paying almost 400 dollars for a card that's worth *maybe* 100. (and you can walk on down the peripheral list and say about the same thing about the other BTO options)
Doing so would ruin their rapidly increasing share in film production, music production and photography sectors. Final Cut in uncompressed HD NEEDS a mac pro.
There seems to be a bug in multiquote in this thread so there will be a few edits...
Yeah fair enough, which is why I'm half expecting *major* changes which do require a lot of time to make sure they're to the standard people expect. We'll see. Apple don't *always* disappoint, sometimes they come out with a cracker
Especially with Jobs in charge.
I remember this being discussed during the PPC/Intel switch. IIRC the reasoning at the time was that they didn't want to make visual changes at any time during the transition period, because people were pretty paranoid about the switch. They preferred to put across the message that it was still a Mac... exactly the same Mac everyone knows and loves... just faster. Making sure the visual style stayed exactly the same was a great way to do that. They'd probably have kept the same names if "Power Mac" wasn't related to their change to PPC way-back-when.
That said, I agree that it's definitely time for a change. They've done it with the iMac, so I'm confident we'll see a design change for the new Mac Pro.
Even then.... the designs keep getting better and better, and each time I keep wondering how they could possibly make it look even better still! One has to wonder if "change for change's sake" would run the risk of making something look worse. Not that they'd do that *cough*
Yeah.. you failed to spot my sarcasm emoticon I don't seriously think they'd drop the Pro, unless Jobs completely took leave of his senses.
Yeah fair enough, which is why I'm half expecting *major* changes which do require a lot of time to make sure they're to the standard people expect. We'll see. Apple don't *always* disappoint, sometimes they come out with a cracker
Especially with Jobs in charge.I remember this being discussed during the PPC/Intel switch. IIRC the reasoning at the time was that they didn't want to make visual changes at any time during the transition period, because people were pretty paranoid about the switch. They preferred to put across the message that it was still a Mac... exactly the same Mac everyone knows and loves... just faster. Making sure the visual style stayed exactly the same was a great way to do that. They'd probably have kept the same names if "Power Mac" wasn't related to their change to PPC way-back-when.
That said, I agree that it's definitely time for a change. They've done it with the iMac, so I'm confident we'll see a design change for the new Mac Pro.
Even then.... the designs keep getting better and better, and each time I keep wondering how they could possibly make it look even better still! One has to wonder if "change for change's sake" would run the risk of making something look worse. Not that they'd do that
*cough*Yeah.. you failed to spot my sarcasm emoticon
I don't seriously think they'd drop the Pro, unless Jobs completely took leave of his senses.^^ I agree. If the mac pro is slated to be released at MWSF, I think it will come with a case redesign, however minimal. I'm thinking they'll keep the general design, but will shrink the case due to the lower thermal requirements of the new processors and graphics cards. I'm guessing it'll only be a few inches shaved off at best.
My only conclusion is that Apple is neglecting its power users. No matter what the argument is we all agree the time for an upgrade or a price cut is over due.
Hopefully they will come out with something outstandingly new and ground breaking to explain the delay. As an engineer I understand the issues that can delay a release I just hope that whatever Apple puts out is far enough out on the technical edge that the delay can be explained.
Hopefully they will come out with something outstandingly new and ground breaking to explain the delay. As an engineer I understand the issues that can delay a release I just hope that whatever Apple puts out is far enough out on the technical edge that the delay can be explained.
Apple knows what its doing. Here are some theories from me and others on the forum:
-Q4 2007 has been a huge success to apple. Investors are happy.
-Q1 2008 will need new products in order to sustain growth and keep those investors happy. A slim notebook + a new Mac Pro will help that.
-Releasing it now will only strengthen sales for Q407, making the target for next quarter even more difficult. If it's not met, investors will not be so happy.
-I'm guessing that we will see a small case redesign (more evolutionary) due to the lower thermal requirements of the new processors. Apple will always hold some sort of event to announce a new design, and with no such events until MWSF on the radar.. we can assume it will be then.
-The ATI HD3800 series just got released. If apple wanted to give us a decent ~$200 graphics card this time around (and charge us $400 of course), then this would be a great choice.
Other than giving us an early Christmas, the only reason why i'd see apple releasing the Mac Pro before MWSF is so that businesses can purchase them in time to qualify for tax write-offs. But as others have said, businesses will purchase the mac pro by Dec 31st regardless if it's updated or not, and thus help clear out current inventory.
There's a problem with multi-quote and just regular posting at MacRumors. I hope they fix it soon or there will be a whole lot of editing going on.
Anyway... I think there's a bunch of ideas flowing around at Apple and I am sure two of them are a redesign for their pro models, both the Mac Pro and the Mac Book Pro. I just hope that the redesign for the Mac Pro doesn't compromise the expandability and that it comes with more graphics options so that we can all get out new machines configured the way we want them to.
I am still on the fence about needing a Mac Pro or iMac since I may be moving my operations to a laptop, but I will wait and see the offerings.
Anyway... I think there's a bunch of ideas flowing around at Apple and I am sure two of them are a redesign for their pro models, both the Mac Pro and the Mac Book Pro. I just hope that the redesign for the Mac Pro doesn't compromise the expandability and that it comes with more graphics options so that we can all get out new machines configured the way we want them to.
I am still on the fence about needing a Mac Pro or iMac since I may be moving my operations to a laptop, but I will wait and see the offerings.
That's my biggest fear, although changing the tower would be a mistake (if it lost expandability). But Apple doesn't ask my opinions.
Of course not, the Penryn is not out yet and neither the new Penryn support chip.
Mac Pros will only get upgrades when new CPUs and Chipsets arrive from Intel, otherwise there is nothing new they can stick in. When they quad cores came out they did offer that.
You agree with my logic, yet turn around and deny it.
You're basically arguing that the iMac, because it has no upgrade potential, should cost less. This logic however does not agree with the technology world. If we equate the iMac to a high end laptop to no mobility (from a manufacturing standpoint, this is what it is), then the whole equation explodes. Smaller technology costs MORE to manufacture. You need smaller chips, you have to build everything yourself (unlike desktops where other companies build the modular bits and you just piece them together with your own case and mobo), and it requires an expensive R&D cycle, since all the parts have to be placed in a small shell and thermally managed. Add the cost of the giant LCD and associated parts...
Now, you look at the Mac Pro. It's effectively no different than any other high end desktop. Sure, it's got a couple Xeons, but it's still a BTO desktop with misc parts, assembled by <insert mfg here> in a cool case with a custom mobo.
If you even glance at the highly competitive PC market, you'll see all prices from any company back this trend up: Laptop = higher cost, almost no upgrade potential, lower specs. Check out any PC laptop mfg, you'll notice from around 15in down, laptops only get more expensive for less machine.
Now, given that the Mac Pro is a high end machine, I'll forgive the higher cost. It has what once was a high upgrade potential (Lets face it, current boards on newegg can handle up to 64gb, it's not impressive anymore), so I'll throw it some room there to be nice, and hell, it'll last a while so more bonus points. But let's boil it down here. We're still getting no screen, a smaller hard drive, half the ram, and a weaker graphics card than the iMac 24", despite the price difference.
You can't seriously tell me you think there isn't a problem here.
The devil you know...
With out any technical advancement that would require a case redesign, I would prefer that they leave it alone.
With out any technical advancement that would require a case redesign, I would prefer that they leave it alone.
Redesign?
In a working shop, keeping the same enclosure is a win for ongoing business; if you're provisioning and supporting equipment for a production department, you don't new designs to deal with every year; you want continuity.
The reason for restyling a product line all the time is a kind of planned obsolescence... it's a way of making you want the new thing more than it's real improvement justifies. Works very well for consumer products; ask the fashion industry.
In a working environment, you want just the opposite... continuity makes you feel better about having bought the previous round, since it still holds up well psychologically against the new. And it's a lot more practical. The more interchangeable everything is, the easier it is manage inventory and support. You can buy whacks of memory at your convenience and spread it around as you wish, stuff like that. People are less grumpy about being a bit out of date if they don't look like they've been stuck with yesteryear's hand-me-downs. And so on.
The Pro is designed very well for that market. Lots of slots for piecewise upgrade, very straightforward to configure and upgrade, nice consistent 'serious' look and feel that's deliberately not on the flavor-of-the-month hamster wheels as consumer toys.
The Pro casing has a very nice feel of inevitability about it. It says quality, elegance, and professionalism. It's a good thing to have at your desk.
Changing the design for the sake of changing the design breaks that spell; I hope they don't.
In a working shop, keeping the same enclosure is a win for ongoing business; if you're provisioning and supporting equipment for a production department, you don't new designs to deal with every year; you want continuity.
The reason for restyling a product line all the time is a kind of planned obsolescence... it's a way of making you want the new thing more than it's real improvement justifies. Works very well for consumer products; ask the fashion industry.
In a working environment, you want just the opposite... continuity makes you feel better about having bought the previous round, since it still holds up well psychologically against the new. And it's a lot more practical. The more interchangeable everything is, the easier it is manage inventory and support. You can buy whacks of memory at your convenience and spread it around as you wish, stuff like that. People are less grumpy about being a bit out of date if they don't look like they've been stuck with yesteryear's hand-me-downs. And so on.
The Pro is designed very well for that market. Lots of slots for piecewise upgrade, very straightforward to configure and upgrade, nice consistent 'serious' look and feel that's deliberately not on the flavor-of-the-month hamster wheels as consumer toys.
The Pro casing has a very nice feel of inevitability about it. It says quality, elegance, and professionalism. It's a good thing to have at your desk.
Changing the design for the sake of changing the design breaks that spell; I hope they don't.
What world do you live in where 20% is "Not Much?" 20% is a substantial increase in performance. Plus when we compare what you paid to what the new base model would cost (assuming $2499) you would be getting more performance per dollar. 20% increase and a $1500 price decrease for that, I am in.
Also, may i please have a link to these reviewers you speak of.
awww come on fellas. the mac pro is still an unbelivably powerful machine.
heck im even happy with my CD MBP, which is lightning fast. so all of yous out there with the top MP just be happy with it, and appreciate the raw power that you have at an arms length away!
heck im even happy with my CD MBP, which is lightning fast. so all of yous out there with the top MP just be happy with it, and appreciate the raw power that you have at an arms length away!
Listen. For the last time. No one here is saying the current Pros suck. They are simply out of date and some people here have decided to wait for an update. So please, give it a rest.
The only bashing going on here are those who own the current Pro who feel bad because we are calling their computer "outdated." Which is fact and hardly an attack.
I am not directing this at you specifically DoFot. I am just a little tired of people telling us "the current one is fine!" blah blah blah, etc etc. Use your computers in peace and we will wait in peace, end of story. If you see a thread about waiting, turn away, because it in no way concerns you (those who own Mac Pros and only care to bash those waiting).
I will admit that some people are taking it too far, with daily threads and what not. And I would honestly like those people to give it a rest as well. We have one thread for this, with an adequate title try to keep it there.
there are alot of people that are saying the MP's suck!!!!!
just look at the first page, they're insults flying all over the place.
now, yes the MP's are "out of date" but clearly they are not "outdated". this issue comes up every time new hardware comes out, which is pretty much every 2 months-6months. so who really cares? of course they are going to be outpowered/outpriced/outeverythingelsed.
thats just the way moore's law works.. we just have to live with it
The difference is the Mac Pro hasn't been updated since its release. So it isn't 2-6 months in this case.
With that in mind the current Mac Pro is GROSSLY OUTDATED. I stress the GROSSLY.