Macrumors and Racism

[TiggrToo]

Because things don't disappear just because I close my eyes.

This isn’t your website.

From everything I’ve heard from @arn, for better or for worse, PRSI is sticking around.

I’ve had immense personal success with having blocked it from access. There are some folk there who’ve made it very abundantly clear they hold what I hold to be bigoted views that effect me directly, and they’re not changing them.

So I chose to avoid it completely.

If that’s not an option then perhaps having an account here on MR is not for you.
[automerge]1594063527[/automerge]

Can we send this thread to the "Wasteland" yet? It seems to be doing more harm than good...

Wasteland? No. The thread I feel is valid. At some point though it perhaps it might be closed when the mods feel it has run its course.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Uhm. How is being a Nazi sympathizer or proclaiming to be a Nazi sympathizer NOT against the rules????????????? WTF.

Because they can't read minds and they can't control other people's opinion. What they can control is the expression of such opinion, and even that is sometimes somewhat limited.
Personally, I'd love to know if my interlocutor's ideas are awful.

 

[||\||]

Because they can't read minds and they can't control other people's opinion. What they can control is the expression of such opinion, and even that is sometimes somewhat limited.
Personally, I'd love to know if my interlocutor's ideas are awful.

Easily said when you have nothing to lose.

 

[yaxomoxay]

yet you’re still okay with Nazi sympathizers being allowed on this website? I have no words.

Statistically speaking, there are Nazi sympathizers wherever you live. It is very possible that those sympathizers use whatever service you use (train, subway, restaurants, print shops, etc.). Do you want to eradicate them, even if they don't act on their Nazism in any way whatsoever other than posting on some Reddit forum at most? Are you going to round up people to see if they have an 88 tattoo or something? Are you going to deny them public and private services? How are you ok living wherever Nazis are allowed to live?
[automerge]1594065293[/automerge]

Easily said when you have noting to lose.

What do you mean?

 

[Apple_Robert]

Because things don't disappear just because I close my eyes.

If you truly believe that the staff (Arn and anyone else with a power vote) is giving quarter to Nazi‘s and white supremacists, and continually turning a blind eye to ongoing alleged hate speech and racism on the forum, why would you continue to visit such a site?

If your conviction is real and it’s not more so a matter of disagreeing with what moderators may or may not have done with a report, logic would dictate that you would not be able to abide in a place such as you have described on MacRumors.

I understand disagreeing with moderation calls at times. I have done that myself a few times, and took the time to contact the staff.

What I don’t get, is making serious claims like you have, and then continuing to participate on the same forum you find egregious character faults with. It’s strikes me as counterproductive.

 

[oneMadRssn]

If you truly believe that the staff (Arn and anyone else with a power vote) is giving quarter to Nazi‘s and white supremacists, and continually turning a blind eye to ongoing alleged hate speech and racism on the forum, why would you continue to visit such a site?

If your conviction is real and it’s not more so a matter of disagreeing with what moderators may or may not have done with a report, logic would dictate that you would not be able to abide in a place such as you have described on MacRumors.

I understand disagreeing with moderation calls at times. I have done that myself a few times, and took the time to contact the staff.

What I don’t get, is making serious claims like you have, and then continuing to participate on the same forum you find egregious character faults with. It’s strikes me as counterproductive.

What are you talking about man? We're in a portion of the site specifically for providing public feedback to the site owners about this forum. This is literally the place for airing my grievance.

 

[Apple_Robert]

What are you talking about man? We're in a portion of the site specifically for providing public feedback to the site owners about this forum. This is literally the place for airing my grievance.

I am not saying you can’t make your voice known. I am not saying you are wrong for doing so. I asked a valid question, in my opinion. You chose not to answer and that is your prerogative. I am not here to argue with anyone.

 

[Plutonius]

Can anyone that joined principally so that they could participate in PRSI please stand up..

PRSI isn't advertised so there is no reason why someone would come to MacRumors for PRSI. Besides, the requirements to post in PRSI are steep precluding any new members from posting there.

I initially joined MacRumors for a technical problem but currently I spend a lot of time in PRSI along with other forums.

Without PRSI, I would still visit MacRumors occasionally but I would be here a lot less.

Why on earth does it exist then.

I think that the bigger question would be "why should somebody care if it exist".

Members can setup their account so they never see it.

 

[Wando64]

I think that the bigger question would be "why should somebody care if it exist".

Members can setup their account so they never see it.

I don’t care if it exists and I have been using the hide setting for a few months now.
However, I understand why some people can be upset about it and about some of the posts made in it.
I remember thinking whether I would want to help, or receive help, from some of the people posting some real nastiness in it. I’d rather not being aware of other people’s issues with race, nationality, religion and/or sexuality.

 

[apple_unreal]

The whole PRSI subforum is a junior /r/T_D - it's a cancer on this site.

I think MR should put it to a user vote whether to delete that whole subforum.

It is a necessary space to have people to drain their issues there, is the toilet of the house, without the toilet people would do it in the living room.

But the main issue is that everybody is in their houses and suffering from a mix of anxiety attack/ obsessive compulsive disorder and that is what you get. This is just an Internet forum to exchange information at the end.

 

[TiggrToo]

It is a necessary space to have people to drain their issues there, is the toilet of the house, without the toilet people would do it in the living room.

Crude, but it has an air of truth to it.

 

[jpn]

i think in the macrumors Politics, Religion, Social Issues thread white supremicist leaning posters tend to be actually just trolls than anything else.

this, coupled with, at times, unbalanced or missing or late moderation from one or two of the moderators allows these trolls who spout white supremicist politics to get away with it.

the trolls will troll.
i don't take issue with these trolls. they are easily spotted.
its the sheeple who believe these trolls that we need to be concerned about.

 

[bousozoku]

Can we send this thread to the "Wasteland" yet? It seems to be doing more harm than good...

It's at the "beating your head against the wall" stage.

 

[r.j.s]

Some discussions never change.

@SandboxGeneral Hello, old friend.

 

[JustAnExpat]

I believe in keeping things as simple and focused as possible. According to the website's mission statement on the bottom of the website:

"MacRumors attracts a broad audience of both consumers and professionals interested in the latest technologies and products. We also boast an active community focused on purchasing decisions and technical aspects of the iPhone, iPod, iPad, and Mac platforms."

So what does PRSI have to do with technology and products, and the technical aspects of the iPhone, iPod, iPad and Mac platforms? It looks like it's a place where trolls and racists hang out.

My opinion: Get rid of PRSI and make a zero tolerance policy of any racist comments. It'll save you mods a lot of headaches.

 

[Plutonius]

It'll save you mods a lot of headaches.

As stated in an earlier post in this thread, the amount of time spent moderating PRSI is much smaller than moderating the technical forums.

Where is the "lot of headaches" ?

 

[TiggrToo]

As stated in an earlier post in this thread, the amount of time spent moderating PRSI is much smaller than moderating the technical forums.

Where is the "lot of headaches" ?

As humans we’re wont to see things based upon perspective.

If you see something as personally difficult we like to assume it is difficult until proven otherwise.

@JustAnExpat personally feels it must be tough and time consuming to moderate, ergo it is.

 

[yaxomoxay]

My opinion: Get rid of PRSI and make a zero tolerance policy of any racist comments. It'll save you mods a lot of headaches.

So where do you put political material that has to be covered, such as Apple's taxation issues, European tax reform, US tax reform, regulatory news, this or that senator that says something about Apple, Covid-19 (political) issues, etc?

The fallacy in the "Get rid of PRSI" argument is that while you might get rid of the subforum, you can't get rid of the topics. Those topics would inevitably end up everywhere else, leaving mods with a much harder work to do, and users finding random Trump-related topics in various subs. Even "Apple is closing stores" news articles become political in two or three posts. The only way to truly get rid of PRSI is to get rid of the topics, which would imply making this a 100% technical forum, which would be an impossibility because it would mean losing lots of information on stuff that is related to Apple but not technical (e.g. European Union's issues with Apple).

 

[SuperMatt]

The moderation rules do seem suspect. I have seen the following terms used to describe Black Lives Matters protesters:

"Neanderthals, gangsta, mouth breathers, jerkoffs, total scumbags" (just a sampling, there are MANY more)

Some other great quotes about the protesters: "go get a job" "If you loot, become violent or threaten someones safety then you’re going down. Good riddance."

Calling on people to shoot looters got the President of the United States a blocked tweet on twitter. It doesn't even raise an eyebrow of the forum moderators.

And the COVID-19 virus: "Things were cranking before a guy ate a live bat in China, lol." A reasonable person would definitely find that statement offensive towards Chinese people.

Forum rules say you'll get banned for:

“Hate speech and group slurs. Discrimination, abuse, threats or prejudice against a particular group, for example based on race, gender, religion or sexual orientation, in a way that a reasonable person would find offensive.”

"Name-calling. Name-calling falls into the category of insults and will be treated as such according to the forum rules, your own opinion about another member notwithstanding. You can't call a bigot a bigot, a troll a troll, or a fanboy a fanboy, any more than you can call an idiot an idiot. You can disagree with the content of another member's statement or give your evidence or opinion to dispute their claims, but you may not make a negative personal characterization about that member."

These have been reported with no action taken.

It doesn't feel like the rules are being applied fairly....

 

[yaxomoxay]

Some other great quotes about the protesters: "go get a job" "If you loot, become violent or threaten someones safety then you’re going down. Good riddance."

Calling on people to shoot looters got the President of the United States a blocked tweet on twitter. It doesn't even raise an eyebrow of the forum moderators.

And the COVID-19 virus: "Things were cranking before a guy ate a live bat in China, lol." A reasonable person would definitely find that statement offensive towards Chinese people.

In other words you want everything moderated. Will you also point out all the posts that claims that America is racist (offensive to Americans), that Cops are bad (offensive to cops), that priests are pedophiles (offensive to Catholics), that someone does this or that? Just asking because I see lots of posts that can be deemed offensive to one or more groups of people.

 

[SuperMatt]

Um, yes I want everything moderated. That's why I'm on a forum with moderators and rules.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The moderation rules do seem suspect. I have seen the following terms used to describe Black Lives Matters protesters:

"Neanderthals, gangsta, mouth breathers, jerkoffs, total scumbags" (just a sampling, there are MANY more)

Some other great quotes about the protesters: "go get a job" "If you loot, become violent or threaten someones safety then you’re going down. Good riddance."

Calling on people to shoot looters got the President of the United States a blocked tweet on twitter. It doesn't even raise an eyebrow of the forum moderators.

And the COVID-19 virus: "Things were cranking before a guy ate a live bat in China, lol." A reasonable person would definitely find that statement offensive towards Chinese people.

Forum rules say you'll get banned for:

“Hate speech and group slurs. Discrimination, abuse, threats or prejudice against a particular group, for example based on race, gender, religion or sexual orientation, in a way that a reasonable person would find offensive.”

"Name-calling. Name-calling falls into the category of insults and will be treated as such according to the forum rules, your own opinion about another member notwithstanding. You can't call a bigot a bigot, a troll a troll, or a fanboy a fanboy, any more than you can call an idiot an idiot. You can disagree with the content of another member's statement or give your evidence or opinion to dispute their claims, but you may not make a negative personal characterization about that member."

These have been reported with no action taken.

It doesn't feel like the rules are being applied fairly....

I reported a post back in April that claimed ‘the Chinese are evil’ and it was explained to me that the admins interpreted it to mean the ‘Chinese government’ even though it made no reference to the government of that country. It annoyed me as one of my posts was taken completely at face value and out of context yet other posts are excused because there is an assumed meaning behind them? Complete inconsistency and in my example I felt the poster at the time was generalising an entire race of people.

It gets back to my point of the admins applying personal interpretations to posts rather than reviewing what is clearly written. Context is also important within the flow of conversation and it seems this is often missed or not considered.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I reported a post back in April that claimed ‘the Chinese are evil’ and it was explained to me that the admins interpreted it to mean the ‘Chinese government’ even though it made no reference to the government of that country.

Post must've been removed, I can't find it; but unless the context was government-related (such as government censorship) yeah I would agree with you that the post would be uncalled for.
[automerge]1594147142[/automerge]

I reported a post back in April that claimed ‘the Chinese are evil’ and it was explained to me that the admins interpreted it to mean the ‘Chinese government’ even though it made no reference to the government of that country.

Post must've been removed, I can't find it; but unless the context was government-related (such as government censorship) yeah I would agree with you that the post would be uncalled for.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Post must've been removed, I can't find it; but unless the context was government-related (such as government censorship) yeah I would agree with you that the post would be uncalled for.

The thread was discussing a few aspects of China and I felt it was a stretch to apply it to the government only. I’ve hidden PRSI and I’m banned so wouldn’t put myself in the position of trying to even look for it. You’re right though, it’s probably been cleaned up.

 

[SuperMatt]

In other words you want everything moderated. Will you also point out all the posts that claims that America is racist (offensive to Americans), that Cops are bad (offensive to cops), that priests are pedophiles (offensive to Catholics), that someone does this or that? Just asking because I see lots of posts that can be deemed offensive to one or more groups of people.

The rules state: “Hate speech and group slurs. Discrimination, abuse, threats or prejudice against a particular group, for example based on race, gender, religion or sexual orientation, in a way that a reasonable person would find offensive.”

Using ridiculous examples is where "a reasonable person" comes in. When people argue that America is/isn't a racist country, the discussion is generally on policies and outcomes for people of different races. If used in a way to slur Americans, then it should be policed. Same for the other examples.