Macrumors and Racism

[TiggrToo]

Arn decided to instead give these nazis and white supremacists a room in his virtual home (as long as they follow some easily-circumventable rules).

You have any examples of hate speech that has been allowed in PRSI?

I’m not a betting woman but would be OK with dropping $5 on that there none and that you’re just bandwaggoning here.

 

[bousozoku]

Making it less personal: MR has decided to be a site that allows the PRSI community to exist within its home. Thus, MR owns all the vile garbage that happens in PRSI. MR cannot distance themselves from it by hiding behind semantics - as long as PRSI exists on the site, the state of that subforum is reflective on MR as a whole.

You say "I cannot however control where those various types of people are in society around me, including online." But you (MR) can. MR can say, "we can't tell you where to go, but we won't give you quarter in our home." But it doesn't do that. Arn decided to instead give these nazis and white supremacists a room in his virtual home (as long as they follow some easily-circumventable rules).

They say the room is locked and we aren't forced to open door. But that doesn't take away that we all know that MR's site has in it a place for this content.

I think MR should reckon with this and stop hiding behind semantics. Either own it and admit what it is: MR is site with a space where nazis and white supremacists can post (as long as they aren't directly insulting and don't use certain banned keywords); or get rid of that subforum.

MacRumors staff decided to create a subforum to move all the angry political posts out of Community Discussion, around 13 years ago, if I remember correctly. You had to have 500 other posts to be able to post in the subforum. Perhaps, people were more agreeable at that time. Certainly, a certain presidential campaign awakened the hateful masses elsewhere.

If the subforum was removed, the rubbish would end up back in Community Discussion again, and each attempt to remove such threads would be met with more anger, you can bet.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Ok, fair enough.

But that goes both ways as well. And in fact that specific point about (ESL) is addressed in the rules for appropriate debate. But I personally feel if one isn't aware they are posting a slur, insult or what-have-you maybe they shouldn't be posting here.

I agree, but if what they post isn't intended to be a slur but is interpreted that way, then its evidently somebody getting the wrong end of the stick. If that is the mods, then there is only one loser despite their error.
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I am not answering for myself, but yes, it seems that there are people who primarily participate in PRSI. You can see it when you hover over their name and they have been members for 10 years, and have 800 posts. That's 80 posts per year, 6 posts per month and 1.5 posts per week, yet they are heavily participating in nearly every thread in PRSI.

That's very true. I've been here about 11 months longer than yourself but my post count says i've made just shy of 9k posts. Its more likely close to 25k with the posts I have made in PRSI. That happens when you are very happy with Apple products and don't need to discuss them as often. A lot of the political threads were much more interesting.

 

[oneMadRssn]

MacRumors staff decided to create a subforum to move all the angry political posts out of Community Discussion, around 13 years ago, if I remember correctly. You had to have 500 other posts to be able to post in the subforum. Perhaps, people were more agreeable at that time. Certainly, a certain presidential campaign awakened the hateful masses elsewhere.

If the subforum was removed, the rubbish would end up back in Community Discussion again, and each attempt to remove such threads would be met with more anger, you can bet.

Or they can just prohibit any topics that would normally fall within PRSI - just like they already do everywhere outside of PRSI. There might some anger at first, but eventually those users would just leave (good riddance) and we can get back to speculating about when the next Mac Mini will launch.
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You have any examples of hate speech that has been allowed in PRSI?

I’m not a betting woman but would be OK with dropping $5 on that there none and that you’re just bandwaggoning here.

Ok. Venmo me $5 and I'll give you an example of hate speech on PRSI. PM me for my venmo username.

 

[Wando64]

I am actually guilty of that (much to my shame). I cannot believe for one instance that I’m the only one either.

Thankfully I got better and left.

I bet you use Apple products and ended up here through googling for support or advice on these products.

My point is that Apple Rumours, News, Support and Advice are the core business of this website and associated forums, and everything else is an unnecessary distraction.
The website owners might be able to prove me wrong, but I cannot believe that traffic volumes and advertisement revenue would be severely impacted by the removal of PRSI.
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I am aware that News such as "production moving in or out of China" will generate political responses.
In my opinion, the best solution to this problem is to have comments disabled for such News items.
Let's face it, discussing this type of news doesn't really make any difference to anyone. Does it?

 

[TiggrToo]

I bet you use Apple products and ended up here through googling for support or advice on these products.

My point is that Apple Rumours, News, Support and Advice are the core business of this website and associated forums, and everything else is an unnecessary distraction.
The website owners might be able to prove me wrong, but I cannot believe that traffic volumes and advertisement revenue would be severely impacted by the removal of PRSI.

You often move goalposts? You thought that no one had joined MR due to PRSI - I owned up to being one such person.

Now I’ve rather inconveniently shown your assumption was wrong, now you’re trying to move the goalposts, and seemingly making them much wider to something that’s all but impossible to prove.

 

[Wando64]

You often move goalposts? You thought that no one had joined MR due to PRSI - I owned up to being one such person.

Now I’ve rather inconveniently shown your assumption was wrong, now you’re trying to move the goalposts, and seemingly making them much wider to something that’s all but impossible to prove.

Beg your pardon?

I just asked you a question.
How did you end up on this site for the very first time?

By the way, I am here to have a conversation. No need to get confrontational.
Nobody needs to "prove" anything to me.
I can see why you might enjoy spending time in PRSI.

 

[TiggrToo]

Beg your pardon?

I just asked you a question.
How did you end up on this site for the very first time?

By the way, I am here to have a conversation. No need to get confrontational.
Nobody needs to "prove" anything to me.
I can see why you might enjoy spending time in PRSI.

Apparently you also didn’t read my posts where I said I no longer visit there.

 

[Wando64]

Apparently you also didn’t read my posts where I said I no longer visit there.

Sorry

 

[AZhappyjack]

That’s a whole lot of word salad to say you’re okay with Nazi sympathizers on this website. I don’t understand the complacency. I really don’t.

There is a vast difference between what someone is and what someone says or does. I am not condoning or defending anyone here, but the forum rules dictate how one behaves here, not their core belief system. Not sure how one could dictate or legislate against a belief system or intent.

 

[I7guy]

....

I think MR should reckon with this and stop hiding behind semantics. Either own it and admit what it is: MR is site with a space where nazis and white supremacists can post (as long as they aren't directly insulting and don't use certain banned keywords); or get rid of that subforum.

Imo, I don't think there is anything to reckon with. You are suggesting the MR stop the discussion of the ideology of certain topics. I don't agree with this. I do agree with stopping the discussion of hate speech that may be generated by these discussions.

However, it is entirely possible, your definition is different than the sites' definition.

You can hide the political forums with a single check. I can't understand, why if this option exists, there are still discussions about getting rid of the forum.

 

[oneMadRssn]

You can hide the political forums with a single check. I can't understand, why if this option exists, there are still discussions about getting rid of the forum.

Because things don't disappear just because I close my eyes.

 

[I7guy]

...

Ok. Venmo me $5 and I'll give you an example of hate speech on PRSI. PM me for my venmo username.

If you have done your service to the community and reported these posts, and the staff decided not to remove/edit them, and you don't agree, did you follow up via the "contact us" link? If you did and the staff decided no further action was needed, then you did your due diligence and move on. (would be what I would do)

 

[oneMadRssn]

If you have done your service to the community and reported these posts, and the staff decided not to remove/edit them, and you don't agree, did you follow up via the "contact us" link? If you did and the staff decided no further action was needed, then you did your due diligence and move on. (would be what I would do)

The problem is larger than specific post moderation. The very existence of the subforum is problematic - no moderation rules can fix that. Either this is an Apple forum, or this is a Apple forum with a subforum for dog-whistle white-supremacists. Currently it's the latter. I'd prefer it to be the former.

 

[I7guy]

Because things don't disappear just because I close my eyes.

The site owner has made it clear that PRSI isn't going anywhere. It's a slippery slope of when to start censoring the discussion of ideologies vs out and out hate speech. If alt-right is banned, should alt-left be banned also. Maybe only discussions that fall squarely in the middle.

At any rate, I'm glad there is a forum to discuss such things, even though I decline to participate in many of the threads in that forum.
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The problem is larger than specific post moderation. The very existence of the subforum is problematic - no moderation rules can fix that. Either this is an Apple forum, or this is a Apple forum with a subforum for dog-whistle white-supremacists. Currently it's the latter. I'd prefer it to be the former.

You can petition the site owner, through this forum (and PM) to eliminate PRSI, but it's clear it is not going anywhere.

If your view "this is a Apple forum with a subforum for dog-whistle white-supremacists" (and certainly the needle that is moved and stuck to the left side as well) that is certainly your right.

 

[oneMadRssn]

You can petition the site owner, through this forum (and PM) to eliminate PRSI, but it's clear it is not going anywhere.

Yes, welcome to this forum feedback thread.

 

[||\||]

The site owner has made it clear that PRSI isn't going anywhere. It's a slippery slope of when to start censoring the discussion of ideologies vs out and out hate speech. If alt-right is banned, should alt-left be banned also. Maybe only discussions that fall squarely in the middle.

The issue at hand is not one of fairness, but social responsibility. Providing a platform for White supremacy and misogyny to propagate can have harmful or even deadly consequences depending on one's luck at birth.

 

[BigMcGuire]

The problem is larger than specific post moderation. The very existence of the subforum is problematic - no moderation rules can fix that. Either this is an Apple forum, or this is a Apple forum with a subforum for dog-whistle white-supremacists. Currently it's the latter. I'd prefer it to be the former.

Are you saying the majority of the posts in PRSI are from white-supremacists? Or ... a good number?

 

[oneMadRssn]

It's a slippery slope of when to start censoring the discussion of ideologies vs out and out hate speech. If alt-right is banned, should alt-left be banned also.

It's really not a slippery slope. It's pretty easy to decide these things on a step-by-step basis, and decide when to stop. Especially on an Apple site.

Also, your comment presumes that alt-right and alt-left are equal in extremity and pervasiveness. If/when there is a problem with the alt-left, it can be addressed at that time. The alt-right is the prevailing problem today.

 

[The Clark]

Imagine getting banned on an Apple Forum 🤣

 

[oneMadRssn]

Are you saying the majority of the posts in PRSI are from white-supremacists? Or ... a good number?

You know the line, "I'm not saying Trump is a racist but the racists think he's one of them." That also sums up some of the comments in PRSI.

 

[I7guy]

The issue at hand is not one of fairness, but social responsibility. Providing a platform for White supremacy and misogyny to propagate can have harmful or even deadly consequences depending on one's luck at birth.

Slippery slope. Have you reported posts that violate the rules for discourse? Or do you simply want any discussion of the ideology banned?

 

[BigMcGuire]

You know the line, "I'm not saying Trump is a racist but the racists think he's one of them." That also sums up some of the comments in PRSI.

Interesting. When I was involved in PRSI, I made the statement that I thought the other (political) side was far more numerous than the side I identified with only to be told the exact same thing from someone who was on the other side of the fence than I was. That was a bit of an eye opener for me.

As far as Trumpsters - I did see a handful of them but they always seemed to get themselves suspended fairly quickly. A few managed to remain.

But I'm surprised at the White Supremacy statement.

Now, I've ignored PRSI for about a year now (and officially with Arn's new ignore feature months ago) so... my take is a little dated. But I did spend quite a few years reading (and not posting).

 

[I7guy]

It's really not a slippery slope. It's pretty easy to decide these things on a step-by-step basis, and decide when to stop. Especially on an Apple site.

Also, your comment presumes that alt-right and alt-left are equal in extremity and pervasiveness. If/when there is a problem with the alt-left, it can be addressed at that time. The alt-right is the prevailing problem today.

I disagree and I see this as a slippery slope. (edit: but it's not my call, only my opinion)

 

[boswald]

Can we send this thread to the "Wasteland" yet? It seems to be doing more harm than good...