True, but remember that there were other digital music players on the market when the iPod came on the scene. But time will tell if the Airpods become popular.
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Macrumors has become a cesspool of haters
- Thread starter philosopherdog
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True, but remember that there were other digital music players on the market when the iPod came on the scene. But time will tell if the Airpods become popular.
With respect, @stridemat, I do think it is a bit wilfully disingenuous - or, perhaps deliberately (or cluelessly) myopic - to not admit to the possibility of a connection between the deplorable (and yes, I use this word deliberately) deterioration in the tone in which political and public debate took place in the US this past November (and before) and the horrible tone in which much of such debate have been conducted in recent times in PRSI.
Whether you wish to explicitly acknowledge that or not, there is a connection between the election campaign and the striking deterioration in tone in which much debate is carried out on these fora.
Now, I fully understand that you would prefer not to have explicitly political stuff debated here: Fine.
But to deny that political circumstances and events - and reactions to, or responses to - or, more to the point - lack of responses to - these events did not enable, encourage and facilitate the steady deterioration in the tone in which much of the public debate has been carried out in PRSI in recent months here is to miss that Things Have Changed - and for the worse, and that choices and decisions made by the moderation team (and I respect and acknowledge that 1) this is not easy, and 2) that it is voluntary) have also enabled, allowed and encouraged this.
I have made the argument before: If you do not explicitly condemn - and call out - the use of racist and sexist language - you implicitly condone it.
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I think PRSI is basically its own world, or probably more like universe. What the OP, and various others seem to be referring to are really things well beyond the essentially separate PRSI section. What has been described has been going own even before the heated election cycle in US and realistically didn't and largely still doesn't have much to do with any of it. That's not to say there aren't other potential issues in PRSI realm and other somewhat similar/related ones, but they are somewhat separate and somewhat different from most of the other tech-related parts.
I have the same issue, not necessarily because of Apple haters even though it's getting too much. When I first joined this forum, I was always excited to log in every morning, read the posts and interact. Today, I pass by and glimpse at what's posted and rarely impressed by the topics.../rant
Well, it's easy to draw a clean distinction between PRSI and everything else. Certainly it seems that the fervor is more intense, and it also seems to be more tolerated. But I think there is an indirect connection between what happens there and what happens elsewhere on the fora, which is to say I think it has the same source. It is not a coincidence that there are now two threads on roughly the same topic in the Site and Forum Feedback section.
Wildly hostile behavior abounds in and out of that sub-forum, and, yes, it is ramping up. But, as I said before to great discomfort, as Apple positioned itself as a mainstream technology company broader swaths of mainstream America came flooding into these fora. This was a financial boon, no doubt, to MR, but, as I suspect most members here are from the US, it's created a complex microcosm of US American social climate. Whether the argument is liberal vs conservative, Apple vs Samsung, Cook vs Jobs, etc. we're getting a heavy dose of aggressive sectarian conflict sprinkled with derisive contempt and crass vulgarity. And MR tolerates it.
I disagree, the internet has always been hostile, it has little to do with the current American social climate or politics, though certainly it doesn't help. There are plenty examples of very hostile places, for example about 2-3 years ago The Verge, it was so hostile they resorted to plain censorship. To me MR remains very mild drama, fun and generally respectful (PSRI excluded).
OP just have a mental or actual ignore list it's the only thing you can do. Personally I don't think this place is bad but like any community engagement you will get from it what you put into it. Maybe get to know some of the on-line persona's of the people then make the call from there?
One limitation is that block lists don't actually prevent miscreants from promulgating their ideas and bringing down conversation quality. Sure, you don't see the people who cause the train wreck, but you still have to deal with the damage, debris and casualties afterwards.
Sticking your head in the sand is denial.
Whatever nasty online exchange that you ignore doesn't make it go away. A record of it is there, like a chalk outline of a corpse.
This was one of the most pointed criticisms of Teresa Nielsen Hayden's practice of "disemvoweling" forum commenters at boingboing. It left behind corpses of Internet discussion leaving the place looking like a complete ghetto or war zone. IT MADE FOR A CONTINUOUSLY HOSTILE AND UGLY COMMUNITY.
Even here, there are fewer threats of the "ban-hammer" or other aggressive moderation arm twists. It doesn't make for a better place and there are plenty of other alternatives elsewhere on the Internet.
The bigger problem these days are the drive-by posters. People who register to post one question/one comment that same day and NEVER EVER post again. Those aren't community members, they are attention vampires, all take and no give. I would say that 80% of all first-time posts on any popular site are of this type. That's an enormous of amount of attention and goodwill being squandered on people who had no intention of contributing anything back to the community. It's all about them, pure self-absorbed entitlement.
Shame that it has ended up this way, but we can't stop the inertial movement of today's youth.
Assuming that new members are at least part of the cause of poor behavior, a forum for a different interest used the following strategy -- New members were restricted to a sub-forum until they accumulated N amount of substantive posts. Established members could post there so as to offer help, but weren't allowed to start a thread there.
That wouldn't cure all of MR' perceived ills, especially those that arise for the established members who use MR mostly as a social media outlet, but it might help.
That wouldn't cure all of MR' perceived ills, especially those that arise for the established members who use MR mostly as a social media outlet, but it might help.
I understand the frustration, but that would undermine the fact that we have separated discussions into forum sections. The sections make it easier for users to find answers and discussions relevant to their problems or interests. I agree that drive-by trolling comments are very destructive; they should be reported. Trolling can in some cases be pinpointed in single posts, but is often seen clearly enough to moderate only over time. So even if a post report is not acted on immediately, know that we keep an eye on emerging patterns. Your post reports help!
I can assure you that while some new users do cause problems, violations are by no means restricted to new users.
In addition, if you see a drive-by trolling comment, don't respond. People who come here to troll are only encouraged by responses. They'll find another sandbox to play in if we ignore (and report) them. There's truth to the saying "don't feed the trolls".
I'll remind everyone about @stridemat's mod note. It's not evidence of short sightedness or insincerity on our part, as has been suggested, but rather a fact that PRSI content has to be in the PRSI section. It's perfectly possible to discuss the the issue brought up in this thread without referring to subjects that are restricted to PRSI, for example by comparing the level of discourse on MR to the level of discourse in society on a general level.
It's clear that some users wish to be specific about the political climate. Such a discussion needs to happen in PRSI. Start a thread there to continue discussion of the political aspect and we'll be happy to link to it from this thread. In PRSI, opinions about the cultures of entire nations or the rhetoric surrounding politics can be discussed freely.
Otherwise, carry on.
I haven't been a member for long but I don't find this to be the case. Wouldn't the world be a boring place if we all agreed on everything? We can do without the anti-Apple Steve-would-be-spinning-in-his-grave types but they are few and far between.
I agree with you on the whole, as long as we continue to deal with users who break the rules willfully in order to insult and rile up other users. Through the investigation necessitated by post reports and contact messages I have a very broad view of the forum.
Vulgar language and "haters" vs genuine opinion are difficult areas, because we all have different perceptions and because how we talk about things is influenced by so many things. But I think discussing it now and then is a good idea - it allows us to rethink our own positions, and consider the positions of users whose opinions are different from our own. The most important thing is that we speak for ourselves, and try not to generalize.
Welcome to the forum!
It's not only the "new" users who can be accused of jumping in with the insults and stirring the pot . there are plenty of long-time, long-winded members, who are more than capable of doing that, in fact, they're better at it, because they've been doing it for longer.
I agree - I just mentioned that very fact in another post somewhere. New users who register only to cause problems are part but by no means the whole problem. Troublemakers come in all shapes and sizes.
Thank you. I haven't seen that new members were causing problems; I was offering the suggestion in response to the possibility that they were, as posited by other posters.
Any frustration that I've had here has been induced by established members. That's up to me to remedy. That remedy won't include causing any trouble or telling anyone how a forum should be run. I fully understand I'm a guest here.
The way you've repeatedly, clearly explained the Forum Rules has been excellent. It's a shame that so many want to force their own philosophy onto everything and everyone else rather than appreciate what they have here.
Thanks again.
Excellent post, could not agree more. As Dutch being my native language, I really struggle sometimes to put a post together in the right tone to the context, to be sure I can make my point but then yet again checking it for any misunderstanding I possibly caused for my 'audience'! Just because I have the self knowledge that I sometimes depend heavily on the many great and very tech savvy members here on MR to help me getting my issues solved.
I really like your observation, that we are all guests to this great forum and yes we are indeed. In the light of that being said, I adjust myself to that adagio at my very best. Treat your host as you normally do in real life, have been derailed, meanly times due to the many - for other people very hurting - outpours on (anti-)social media as I would like to call these sometimes.
I've become a member of MR because I had issues with my hardware - a cMP bought in 2008 - and was helped by many, despite of my newbie status, members showing me a fair amount of respect. I personally hang on to those members who enrich my MR experience in a great way and giving me that priceless feeling when I've managed to fix issues based on that great and respecting others team effort.
The techie self confidence I developed during my first 2 years, made me start my own thread about an upgraded hardware device. I took a jump into the deep, but all the positive feedback and of course corrections/directions to the very open minded discussion, made it one well worth the time and resources I invested to make it a worthwhile thread for my readers.
Helping others = helping yourself as a relative new member I got myself onto a very steep learning curve, not only for the tech side of it all, but especially by getting used to write in a fashion my readers appreciated.
Willing to learn to fly was my ultimate goal by discussing in a respectful way with a truly open mind. For I believe strongly that what you seed you might eventually sow. I've made my mistakes here on MR too, but admitting it is all for the best to get back on track asap with other members and carry on with the subject.
I'll focus on the most (sub) forums that really attracts me, the rewarded solutions suggested by others has saved my bacon many times.
I'm proud to tell my family and friends to be a part of the MR family, not bounded by blood but simply for the need to get as much out of our Apple products as possible. What a great ROI it has been for me so far!
Cheers from The Netherlands.
Sorry to jack your post, but I would never have guessed English is not your first language. Heck I was born and raised speaking English and you write better than I do.
I agree with the OP, but I would go further to say that the editors are encouraging it. Macrumors itself has taken to participating in the tech media narrative about Apple, which incites most of the commentary here.
Edit: changed admins to editors.
Edit: changed admins to editors.
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Fair point, corrected.
However, site administrators are not above making the same observations over time that I have.
I love macrumors. This website has been on my rounds for over a decade. Yeah there are some haters but thats the nature of a slightly anonymous forum. I've been in some drama here with some members and some staff but all-in-all its alright. I've learned a lot about people, myself, and a lot about how online debates work.
I always refer to the Second of the Four Agreements:
Don't Take Anything Personally - Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
I always refer to the Second of the Four Agreements:
Don't Take Anything Personally - Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
This is exactly it. It's basically the old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me."
You won't agree with everyone and everyone won't agree with you. If you dislike the way they talk, ignore them.
