MacRumors is Covert MS/Windows Site?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Tramtryst, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Tramtryst, Sep 16, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017

    Tramtryst macrumors newbie

    Sep 9, 2017
    Aichi-ken, Japan
    As a person who has never owned an Apple product and is in the market for a new laptop I thought I would give my perspective on what I've gathered from this site.
    I had pretty much made up my mind about the choice I was going to make for a new 13" laptop. The final specifications and whether to go TB or nTB was still an open question for me so I came here looking for some good perspectives on the advantages of both. Now that I've spent a couple weeks reading through this site it seems like since the latest model refresh (2016) the die hard Apple/Mac fans seem to be the most adamant that the new products put out have failed both in terms of build quality and performance. I've always found people's die hard loyalty to one brand or another peculiar but now I understand that knife cuts both ways. The people most angry about what they perceive as Apple falling on its face since 2015 are the same people who would vociferously defend not but 3 years ago. This is a site promoting Apple and their products right??

    I do not think I'll be buying an Apple product after reading through the threads here. It seems the post 2016 models are broken in terms of keyboard, display, (potentially battery life?) and many are very frustrated with the move to USB-C only.

    The first 2 being quality and the last being a design decision (which I could live with by the way) leads me away from the Apple ecosystem which I was about to venture into for the first time.

    I just thought I'd give some perspective to those who, as is often the purpose of internet forums, have voiced their opinions so strongly about how bad these products are that I guess I'll have to pass. Sad really.
    If it wasn't the die hard Apple pros that were expressing their anger, and just some nameless trolls, I wouldn't pay attention. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Not that anyone should care but I'd be happy to be talked out of this decision if anyone has some poistive experiences they want to share, especially in terms of quality which was the most important factor for me considering Apple.
  2. ZapNZs macrumors 68020


    Jan 23, 2017
    I would highly recommend purchasing one so that you have the primary experience to judge how well it does or does not meet your personal needs.

    Why not purchase one, try it for two weeks to see first hand how it fits into your workflow, and then, if it fails to live up to your needs/expectations, return it under the 14-day return policy?
  3. Tramtryst thread starter macrumors newbie

    Sep 9, 2017
    Aichi-ken, Japan
    Hi ZapNZs
    I've considered that but it seems the keyboards fail some time after those 2 weeks. Also I'm worried the display will be broken and I'd rather not have to go to the store 5 times til I find a good one. It'll be hard for me to explain in Japanese as well...
  4. trifid macrumors 68000


    May 10, 2011
    I highly recommend you get a 2015 model, on eBay for example are a lot of great options, some even include extended Applecare for peace of mind. Even the late 2013 is a beast of a machine.

    As one of the diehard Apple fans, I'm highly critical of Apple as you mention, however you shouldn't be dissuaded from all the 'hate' here, the Apple platform is still superior to the alternative, and there is nothing to suggest that will change any time soon. Sure, Apple is losing vision, they are getting more greedy by the second, but so is Microsoft and everyone else. Until we see a breakthrough somewhere, Mac/iOS is the platform to be in.
  5. burgman macrumors 68000


    Sep 24, 2013
    Go buy an HP or Dell... oh wait. Making buying decisions based on an Internet forum is an interesting way to live. Simple math on numbers sold vs members complaining should be a clue, buy used with warranty, or buy new. Thanks for your perspective ;)
  6. PBz macrumors 68020


    Nov 3, 2005
    PVB, Florida
    ‘Hate’ .. people here returning MANY machines and still fighting to stay with Apple. Even CaptRB went to an Air. Many here love Apple products. I do. I don’t love design flaws & no acknowledgment however.
  7. Fancuku macrumors 65816


    Oct 8, 2015
    PA, USA
    This site does not promote Apple products. This site is made up of Apple users and enthusiasts that share opinions, knowledge and experiences with each other but we do not promote any Apple products.

    One thing I have noticed is that iOS users are a lot more hardcore Apple fans than Mac users. Mac people seem to be much more open minded about non Apple products.
  8. ixxx69 macrumors 65816

    Jul 31, 2009
    United States
    Hard to tell if you're being serious or not based on the thread title.

    I would offer some explanations of what is really going on on these forums (in regards to the thread title), but the mods would just delete my post, and there's a decent chance this thread will be junked by the mods anyway if it goes down that road.

    So I'll just add that if you're really intrigued by the Mac, just get one and see for yourself (just check the return policy).
  9. Queen6 macrumors 604


    Dec 11, 2008
    Flying over the rainforest at dawn - Priceless
    Personally the opposite after over 20 years with the Mac. As Apple no longer produces computers that meet my professional needs, nor does Apple live up to it's own hype. I now have far less stability issues, greater choice of hardware, nor is Windows 10 the aborration many would like you to believe, with my last Mac soon to be retired from the professional environment. It's replacement already proving to be a far more stable system. Offering greater usability and a design team that is capable of delivering a thin & light product to market that is not overly compromised or hyped...

    Apple is now predominantly a phone company that has a near disinterested attitude towards it's Mac customers. Development of the desktop OS has near stalled, with Apple just offering ever more bells & whistles, yet not resolving many underlying issues or advancing productivity in any significant manner. Apple has near abandoned it's professional user customer base, only recently reacting to the signifiant negativity of the tech press. Fairly confident that Tim & Co would happily see the Mac wither & die, so they can focus on IOS devices; being far cheaper to design and produce with greater margins.

  10. SteveJUAE, Sep 17, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017

    SteveJUAE macrumors 68030


    Aug 14, 2015
    Land of Smiles

    Thanks for your brief insight, obviously it's a far more complex diverse set of users here than you could grasp with just reading a fraction of the available threads but generally with the new MBP you seem to have got the gist of the recent emotive topics

    Playing simple maths as some suggest (re silent majority) would be easy ie never by Apple as 90% use windows LOL, but thank goodness for options and personal preference, but to suggest simply that Apple is faultless due to the silence of many is equally ridiculous and a flawed argument

    I can understand your reasoning to use MR as a source of possible issues as where do you go to find potential lemon products or faults and defective hardware that are emerging. Even some of the most prominent consumer magazines/subscriptions take over 2 years to report recurring issues and Apple themselves have only accepted issues after court actions.

    I agree that there seems a trend even in some of the hardest supporters of Apple hardware and they have been far more vocal on MAC's of late and even Apple have admitted short comings in there products and how relatively small (15%) is the pro user base.

    What risk and how much you factor your purchasing decisions based on a collection of replies and topics here is debatable but not irrelevant given the almost lack of alternative info on new generations of MAC's

    The repeated problems noted with KB's is a concern IMO and at the end f the day you get no better warranty length with an Apple product than any other but maybe better support intially unless you pay more
  11. IDrinkGarbageJuice macrumors newbie

    Sep 6, 2017
    You have to keep in mind that usually people only post with problems. Unless it's a new product people aren't going to be making forum posts about how great it is, only when a problem comes up are they going to actually post. So while it may seem like X model is riddled with issues you're not seeing all the others that have had no issues.
  12. bcaslis macrumors 68020

    Mar 11, 2008
    As the OP has noticed, people come here to complain. However, I would say that unlike several years ago there is no incentive to come here and post anything positive. I've had a 2016 MBP and now a 2017 MBP. I only had one issue with the 2016 and none with the 2017 so far. However if I bothered to post this I'd either be told how wrong I am or that I'm an Apple apologist. There is no incentive to contribute anything positive here which leads to the overall highly negative attitude.
  13. AFEPPL macrumors 68030


    Sep 30, 2014
    You'll always get swings and movers each way.
    As you make changes people will always disagree and say its the end, those changes will also attract new users - i guess as a company apple have to hope they lose less than they gain. I think the rMB is a great device and would get one of those over a MBA every day of the week, x2 at the weekend. USBC i dont see as an issue on the new devices, not the TP. The pace of change for some of the traditional products are concerning.

    But as for the direct question, YES. Things have changed of late in appledom. YES, there's been some issues.
    As always, you need to look at YOUR workflows and your needs and go with what works for you..
  14. kazmac macrumors 604


    Mar 24, 2010
    On the silver scream
    OP, you do have to dig to find positives and I've been on both sides of the Apple fence. I'm a long-in-the-tooth user. Love when their products work, dislike when they do not. What I truly dislike the price hikes and must get this out now without testing the products months before hand. Before late 2013 and earlier this year, I had 3+ years of argh with Apple. I am fine now and everything works well (except for my internet lately which may be an ISP thing.)

    I try to post positives along with the bad (though last week's price hikes leave me all :mad:), and when I attempted to go over to the competition, it was not for me.

    Have you considered something different beyond a Mac laptop? I have had wonderful luck buying stock iMacs over a five year span, but your needs might be different.

    I value the input of users who have tried both platforms and make these work for them. I use both platforms (and I expect when I am reemployed will be back to using Windows.)
  15. stevemiller macrumors 68000

    Oct 27, 2008
    I feel like both my 2011 and 2013 MacBook pros have both been almost uniformly great experiences. And even my first 2008 MacBook Pro is still chugging along as a hand-me-down. I've been more frustrated on the iOS side of things lately, which has me nervous for what I may encounter for my next computer purchase decision.

    I appreciate critical discussion on the forums. I don't want to just rag on apple, but I also don't want to turn a blind eye on issues where that are of concern. I've had some great computing experiences courtesy of them, and I just don't want to lose that.
  16. Volusia macrumors 6502


    Jun 8, 2016
    Central Florida
    I used Microsoft programs and PC's though the latter half of my career (didn't exist before that). However, I had personally purchased an Apple IIe when they came out in about 1977 or 1978, can't remember exactly. It came with no hard drive and a green screen, with no programs preloaded. I liked it and learned the basics on it, but then had to switch to PCs for work. Now that I am retired I have transferred to Apple for everything. I still have a PC and absolutely dread when I have to go in and get something out of it...

    I still Apple products are head and shoulders above the rest, just my personal preference
  17. xb2003 macrumors 6502


    Jan 18, 2016
    As others have mentioned, people don't usually come here to talk about how much they love their new Mac, they come here to post problems. Once someone posts a keyboard problem then others Google "2016 MacBook Pro Keybord" and post they have the same issue and suddenly an isolated issue seems to be widespread. I do not personally own a 2016 or 2017 model, but I know a lot of people, both on the consumer and professional side, that own one of these and love them. They may be irked about the compromises Apple chose to make, but they don't have any flaws or issues with their machines. Definitely no keyboard issues. Does my sample represent the entire Apple user population? No. Is there a keybord issue that manifests itself on some MacBook pros? Yes. But there is always something. The Retinas had "staingate."

    Macs aren't for everyone. Every platform has its good and bad. But don't let this forum scare you away from trying a Mac if it's what you think you want. Any electronic device could fail at any time, whether it's Apple or other.
  18. boast macrumors 65816


    Nov 12, 2007
    Phoenix, USA
    I think many people who want “the best” are attracted to Apple and are also more critical. MacRumors is also known as the most “toxic community” as well :)

    Although Apple can be disappointing because you expect to be blown away every time, I think all their products are solid and I will continue to be a customer until something drastically bad happens.
  19. TMRJIJ macrumors 68040


    Dec 12, 2011
    South Carolina, United States
    MacRumors is known to everyone outside of it as a toxic community.
    It’s full of self entitled Steve Job worshipers who hate on everything that don’t meet their personal preference. In their mind, they feel like they know what goes on in the company and feel like they are better than the executives (but they’re not). They have selective memories about the past and always expect to be blown away by new features in what are already over saturated and slow changing mature categories. And of course, there are still some blind Apple fanboys that defend the company without logic or reasoning.
    In general, you have make purchasing decisions on your own. Time and time again, we are reminded that we have to vote with our wallets which is exactly what drives the direction of every major tech company.
    These forum members are not the majority. Apple doesn’t care about their our opinions. They don’t care about the countless threads here that ask for Tim Cook to be fired or the stupid ‘Steve Jobs would never allow..’ crap every single year since Jobs’s death. You have to think for yourself and buy whatever works for you. Don’t not fall into Sheep or Hater territory.
  20. leman macrumors G3

    Oct 14, 2008
    Is it? Didn't notice too much toxicity here to be honest. What we do have in abundance is people who are too lazy to do some basic research or lacking fundamental understanding in modern technology who then tend to have some really weird expectations.
  21. ZapNZs macrumors 68020


    Jan 23, 2017
    While some do, most MacBook Pros sold do not have problems. We've had very few 2017s come back with keyboard issues, and we've sold a ton of them. I still encourage purchasing AppleCare+ given the keyboard's history (plus the AD protection), but the 2017 has definitely made some improvements here. The keyboard on my 2017 retina MacBook is one of the more consistent keyboards I have purchased on any computer. Buying one is indeed a risk - but most things in life are! The 2017 MacBook Pro may have a popping keyboard. The 2015 MacBook Pro may have staingate. The Dell XPS may have coil whine. The Surface Book may brick one day randomly. The Yoga may have that black line through the screen. It does happen, and no one on this forum can give you any guarantee on whether it will or will not happen. Certainly, customers whom this happens to are more vocal than those that do not experience a said issue.

    Some of the screen issues are legitimate - but a huge portion of them are individuals with unrealistic expectations for a mass-manufactured product who have the expectation of 100% perfection as if we were talking about a Patek. With customer setups, I've seen two screens that I would consider to be unsatisfactory out of a crap ton.

    Again I suggest purchasing one and making your own decision as to whether or not the system works well for you. Secondary data sources are great, but sometimes only primary data sources can fully answer the question. If the keyboard and screen concerns are so significant that they deter you from the MacBook or current MacBook Pro, the 2015 MacBook Pro is still an outstanding product, as is the MacBook Air.
  22. noteple macrumors 65816


    Aug 30, 2011
    Apple sold 4.2 million mac units just in q3

    Refurb 2017 Just Starting to appear this week

    So contrary to Certain forum elements the machine is Far from a failure

    But it’s not right for everyone which makes the 14 return period a good fit

    Still amazed at the shear number of glowing apples in the lecture hall and for incoming classes the number of new Apple decals that don’t glow.
  23. New_Mac_Smell macrumors 68000


    Oct 17, 2016
    Fundamentally, no one on here truly cares whether you buy an Apple computer or not. We are not paid by Apple to endorse their products...

    Objectivity is important, reading a couple of threads about people complaining about the same thing over and over and then extrapolating that into a mass-market consensus is just dumb. This is a help forum, people often come for help, ergo have problems.

    Fanboys will always exist, look for the "Jobs would never have allowed this!" (And you know this as a spiritual medium?) - "Tim Cook likes money!" (A business likes to make money? Hmm?) kind of people; avoid. Haters will always exist, look for the "The Apple logo doesn't glow anymore, they suck!" (I like things how they are, now my friend has something newer than I do and I cannot cope) - "I don't like the font of the 'MacBook Pro'" (The font doesn't like you either) ; avoid.

    Look down the middle, if someone is trying to convince you to buy an Apple, why? What's your problem, what is the right solution? If you want a cheap touch computer for Office work, probably better getting a Windows machine. If you want a powerful computer within the Apple eco-system, probably better to get an Apple.

    It's not clear why you were looking at buying an Apple, so I can't really say to get one or not. If you just like the look of them then fine, but know it's a professional computer and so is expensive to buy, and use. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and then complain that the tyres cost several grand each. So don't buy an Apple and then complain that you need an expensive adapter. They're designed for people making a living off them, not for personal Netflix consumption. Now you can obviously use it however you want, but if budget is in any way a concern, you're not earning from it, and you only browse the internet, my advice is to always consider a cheaper Windows machine - unless you're rich and it doesn't matter.
  24. throAU macrumors 603


    Feb 13, 2012
    Perth, Western Australia
    apple like any other vendor is not infallible.

    the butterfly keyboards have issues yes.

    however apple support is still miles better than a typical pc vendor.

    also bear in mind that apple users in general hold apple to a much higher standard than pc users typically hold pc vendors to.

    so the whining here is loud and prolific. somewhat justified, but certainly more prevelant than most pc forums. because we expect better than typical pc trash from apple.

    things that would get a total pass in pc land get epic levels of butt hurt on here.
  25. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

    Aug 5, 2001
    I believe the keyboard issues was only occuring with the first generation butterfly keyboard, and the newest models have the second generation one, which was likely made specifically to remove all the issues with generation one. But generation one definitely was a problem.

    Display and battery issues you'll find in any laptop - There are not more of them in the current Macbook Pros. Remember, people mostly come on forums to ask about problems with their machines, not to praise the fully working product.

    And USB-C, well. I have one of those ports in my Macbook, and I have ever only used it for the charger, and for connecting it to a projector, and it has been working perfectly for that. Haven't had the need for more ports.

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25 September 16, 2017