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Macs and Religion

my 2 cents

I was born and rasied orthodox Buddhist, I converted to Catholicism and am a practicing Catholic. Why I converted is a personal matter, it took many years of anguish and digging around in monastery libraries. To the protties out there, you suck! I went through high school having been told by stupid protties that I was going to burn in hell because I didn't repent. Buddhism is a beautiful philosphy, but it was never meant to be a religion. Oh sure, some wanker is going to challenge me on that, because they're some born again Buddhist hippie, guys, alls I have to say is that Buddhism is genetic, I was raised in it like all good little traditional asian kids, so don't test me. As for protties, fellas, the bible was wriitten by the Mother Church, we really get a kick out of it that you all take it literally.

I am a Catholic with a strong Buddhist outlook. The two compliment each other quite well. Please, NO ONE is going to burn in hell! Radical Protties have to stop scaring people like that! Prosetylizing and exhorting so called non believers doesn't do anyone anygood. Why the heck would you want someone to convert to your religion that is so weak of character that mere threats forced them to bend backwards for you? Wouldn't you want free thinkers? I had a Ochem prof here at school who would preach to us the virtues of his ass backwards protestantism instead of teaching Ochem, he was a second rate professor from a third rate school, Wheaton College, that we got to teach because he wanted to dabble his hands in real research, in all actuality, for a guy with a Ph.D. he's no more sensible than a undergrad and he does the bitchwork of an undergrad.

I'm not antiprotestant, some of my very good friends are Lutheran....actually those guys are very close to Catholicism anyway:) But everytime some lame brained prottie wanker tells some of my friends or me that we're going to Hell, my blood boils, every time one fo those ignorant jackasses tell us that we Catholic/Orthodox folks don't understand the bible, that we're heretics, that we don't have faith and that faith alone without deeds is good enough to gain salvation, that they're plain outright holier and more pious than us, I just want to flush them down the john with my morning bizness.
 
wow

you guys are still talking about this....

Religion has caused the most pain, suffering, war, murder, division of peoples, intolerance, hate, and every thing else that is wrong with the human race, out of all the man-made institutions.

Religion has some good points but there is no point in arguing who's invisible man you pray to is the best.

And if your going to talk about history.. you have to talk about all history. The bad and the good. People tend to only remember what they want to remember and accept historical facts that all ready backup what they 'Know' to be truth.

-evildead
 
religion as the cause of war?

I disagree.

The Greed of Humanity causes war. Humanity bends the message to fit its own deeds.


To the Wiccan, seems you cooked up your own hodge podge of what to believe and what no to believe. Its cool by me, but please research the very idea of reincarnation. As for your condemnation of the Christian God as an egoist....may be for whacked protties, but not the case for the Church. Btw, in case you don't research reincarnation and continue on your ignorant crusade, the Hindu/Buddhist idea is that you are selfless, your selfworship has no place.


Hindusism, Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity all had a common message: Peace, Love, Compassion and open your ****ING MIND! Cuz the universe or Creator never meant for anyone to be a dumbass and blindly accept the faith of others, you, yourself must come to your own peace with the world. Seems to me that those who accept religion without question have wasted the very gift of Sentience.


The problem I have with cults....they have no prior history or tradition, many of the nutcases i meet of the cult vegatative variety have taken pieces from many different faiths and wove them into a inconsistent and often contradictory pseudophilosphy. Often times, these are poorly educated people pretend to understand the pieces that comprise their quackery however it is also these pretenders who lead other ill read people to their early demise: David Koresh, etc.


Yes, religion is a scaffolding for a society, but it also can evolve with a society as it matures....read Durkheim.


-Tadpole
 
tadpole... i guess to you im a prottie.


well..for me its not about religion, traditon, ritual or whatever man creates.

its about following Jesus Christ....to my death. its not about going to church or anything like that (mind you...going to church is how we learn).

i dont care about religion be it organized or disorganized..i dont give a flying flip about what the catholics say or the protestants... i just care about what Jesus says. Both the protestants and catholics have things screwed up in them and both are good at things...why? because its made up of men....falible men.

now ..mind you.. i usually dont agree with the catholosicsm side in some major areas...one being that tradition is more important (or the same) as the word of God...or the whole Mother Mary thing.

if thats what you believe...fine...rock on...so as long as you never forsake the Lord.


but religion is a big joke and i wish people will understand the sepration between religon and God.
 
Re: wow

Originally posted by evildead
you guys are still talking about this....

Religion has caused the most pain, suffering, war, murder, division of peoples, intolerance, hate, and every thing else that is wrong with the human race, out of all the man-made institutions.

Religion has some good points but there is no point in arguing who's invisible man you pray to is the best.

And if your going to talk about history.. you have to talk about all history. The bad and the good. People tend to only remember what they want to remember and accept historical facts that all ready backup what they 'Know' to be truth.

-evildead
Click to expand...


evil period is the cause of so much malice, war and bickering...not some religion. the whole argument of religion being the cause of the worlds problems is just a scapegoat for the real issue.
 
Alll Religions are cults...

All Religions are cults... or at least they were at some point in history. When they first got started there was some other Religion or religion like institution in place. the new comers were shunned and often killed. Then if the new "cult" lasts for a while and more members join they become a full fledged religion with history and everything. Take for example the Mormons. They got pushed out of every state they came to until they found Utah (no one was there to complain) Many churches sill preach intolerance of them but over all they have been accepted as a real religion. They were once a cult and now they are one of the richest and most powerful churches in The United states.
 
cult

When I say cult i mean a small group of religious out casts. The modern Amerian deff of a cult may be a little diffrent. Basicly like you said before about a lack of history. With out history your a cult. If you sick arround a while... you have history... then your not a cult anymore... or your too pwoerfull to be an outcast.
 
well then you believe the definition of the word "cult" is relative.


i wasnt arguing history. im not sure why people are bringing this up. did i say something about history that i missed?
 
your right.

you weren't the one that was talking about history.. that was some one else, sorry.

as for you comment "the whole argument of religion being the cause of the worlds problems is just a scapegoat for the real issue."

Your right and wrong. I agree that not all pain is caused by religion... its all caused by man. Man just tends to use religion as a scapegoat and justification for his acts. I don't think that religion its self causes all problems. With out religion, People would probably just find some other way to justify them selves and act badly.
 
Re: Krossfyter

i was just stating it but about Jesus being the fullfillment of the old testament I have to disagree with you not for myself but on behalf of all the jews. For us when the messiah comes he would not be G-d, a mere man like moses but one who was wise in the mystic ways and perform miracles to prove it. After such a 3rd temple of solomon would be constructed an extremely long period of peace would happen in addition to everyone forming the same belief systems and the worthy dead rising to walk the earth during this period of peace in addition to human lifespans being lengthened significantly! but all of this would occur only occur after the great war, or WW3 where we would fight an evil nation and their leader and the messiah would herald the defeat of the nation and end the war, also the line of solomon would be restored with new kings ,etc. this is all in the mysticism, and oral tradition of the jews, in addition to some being in the old testament.
 
Originally posted by krossfyter
define "cult".
Click to expand...

ultimate goal...your wallet

or in a more clever tactic

ultimate goal...your loyalty, which leads to your wallet, eventually

or they get your loyalty to get others if you don't have money so the cult could get to their wallets

history will teach us that some religious institutions like the catholics and protestants played this game too

but for the most part the catholics and protestants are no longer after your wallet

it is my belief that tradition helps build institutionalism which, hopefully builds a system of accountability

this is how our accredited schools keep their noses clean...with a system and a system of accountability

a brain surgeon goes to medical school so he can learn how to treat you if needed

a lawyer spent many years in school so if you need them, they can help you if you call on them

a good pastor has training too because your soul is no less important than your brains or your legal protection...i argue that your soul is more important...even on this plane

so therefore, cults after you wallet, also usually have the annoying aspect of having untrained leaders and pastors which shows they don't care about your soul...just your wallet

...just crank out untrained pastors, build up churches anywhere, and grab dem wallets and make off with all the booty you can

btw...if you want to be any sort of minister, go to seminary school because working on a soul is no less important than cutting into someone's brain if you are a brain surgeon
 
Re: Re: Krossfyter

Originally posted by davidc2182
i was just stating it but about Jesus being the fullfillment of the old testament I have to disagree with you not for myself but on behalf of all the jews. For us when the messiah comes he would not be G-d, a mere man like moses but one who was wise in the mystic ways and perform miracles to prove it. After such a 3rd temple of solomon would be constructed an extremely long period of peace would happen in addition to everyone forming the same belief systems and the worthy dead rising to walk the earth during this period of peace in addition to human lifespans being lengthened significantly! but all of this would occur only occur after the great war, or WW3 where we would fight an evil nation and their leader and the messiah would herald the defeat of the nation and end the war, also the line of solomon would be restored with new kings ,etc. this is all in the mysticism, and oral tradition of the jews, in addition to some being in the old testament.
Click to expand...

yes i do know that the jews are still waiting for thier messiah.


:)
 
Re: Re: Krossfyter

Originally posted by davidc2182
i was just stating it but about Jesus being the fullfillment of the old testament I have to disagree with you not for myself but on behalf of all the jews. For us when the messiah comes he would not be G-d, a mere man like moses but one who was wise in the mystic ways and perform miracles to prove it. After such a 3rd temple of solomon would be constructed an extremely long period of peace would happen in addition to everyone forming the same belief systems and the worthy dead rising to walk the earth during this period of peace in addition to human lifespans being lengthened significantly! but all of this would occur only occur after the great war, or WW3 where we would fight an evil nation and their leader and the messiah would herald the defeat of the nation and end the war, also the line of solomon would be restored with new kings ,etc. this is all in the mysticism, and oral tradition of the jews, in addition to some being in the old testament.
Click to expand...

will all due respect, i just humbly want to ask a question, "are there differing views on this in judaism...are there any jewish factions that think that the messiah will be god in human form? i thought jesus was crucified for claiming that he was messiah and that equated to "blashphemy", a term only given to one falsely claiming to be god

in jesus' case, i think his messiah claim and claim to be god was correct
 
the great teachers

Jesus, Buddha and Mohammad all came with variations of the same message. The funny thing is that after millenia, we still can't get it right. Typical human arrogance and stupidity.


We're all family, God loves all of us. So, the Jews should stop slaughtering the Palestinians. The Christians should stop killing eachother and those of different faiths. The Buddhists should stop the war in Sri Lanka. The Muslims have to stand up and tell the world about the beauty of their faith and stem the tide of those who are extremists. All faiths need to rain in on their extremists. The Buddhits need to stop being so passive and start taking a strong stance against violence- I mean a political will has to be grown. The Vatican needs to be more decisive about its own history and needs to be more vocal about human rights. and WE HAVE TO STOP SUPPLYING ISRAEL WITH THE ARSENAL THAT IT USES TO SLAUGHTER ITS DISPROPORTIONALLY EQUIPED FOE. The only state under siege is Palestine. Also, the Arab peace initiative must be taken seriously, put Israel in its place by bringing it back to its '67 borders. That little upshot has caused enough trouble, its about time we spank it.
 
I dont understand why so many people believe in the bible.

I havn't studied the old or new testament at all really but some of it just seems so wacky, like Noahs ark and Adam and Eve. Do the laws of nature not hold true for the past, I've just read 1984 and the word doublethink comes to mind (good book by the way).
Theres a few contradictions from what Ive been told aswell.

The movie Dogma sums up pretty well what I think, that we should live with/have Ideas not rules dictated to us by a book, which it seems can be translated anyway a preacher sees fit. My Mum always tells me that some people need religion, they need something to believe in, but I think they need to read a little more, think a little more, and open there minds a little more.

Like a Dog can't understand Algerbra I don't think we can fully understand who we are or how we got here.


Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing wonder and awe - the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.
Immanuel Kant
 
Originally posted by Judo
I dont understand why so many people believe in the bible.

I havn't studied the old or new testament at all really but some of it just seems so wacky, like Noahs ark and Adam and Eve. Do the laws of nature not hold true for the past, I've just read 1984 and the word doublethink comes to mind (good book by the way).
Theres a few contradictions from what Ive been told aswell.

The movie Dogma sums up pretty well what I think, that we should live with/have Ideas not rules dictated to us by a book, which it seems can be translated anyway a preacher sees fit. My Mum always tells me that some people need religion, they need something to believe in, but I think they need to read a little more, think a little more, and open there minds a little more.

Like a Dog can't understand Algerbra I don't think we can fully understand who we are or how we got here.


Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing wonder and awe - the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.
Immanuel Kant
Click to expand...

i studied the new testament and some of the old testament in seminary school and there are certainly contradictions since it was written over many years by many different authors

the context of what all those authors is saying is the same...the old testament deals with a lot of suffering and the people of israel are begging for a messiah to come one day

the new testament, in a nutshell, is when that messiah actually comes to israel and then gets crucified and ridiculed...just as it is written

people saw those events in their own interpretations but there is no disputing jesus came back after he was killed and that he was killed for claiming to be god

let's talk about contradictions....i am on one side of a football game and i see the quarterback throw a pass for a ten yard gain to reach a first down

...but you are on the other side of the field and you see one of the offense side players do a penalty by holding

i saw a ten yard pass, but you saw a penalty...now it depends what the referees saw to make that play stand or not

...but because we both saw a different play does not make the whole game invalid
 
And then there's guys like me.

I'm gonna step on a few toes, but someone asked.

I'm the guy at the top of the stands that's been following the money and has figured out that the penalty won't get called 'cause the payola fows against it.

The Templars:

The Templar's right name is: The Knights of the Temple of Solomon. They were the Crusade that preceeded the Catholic Crusades. They were a group of non-Catholic Knights. Think Jedi, not of the Council nor of Palpatine's Cadre but something more obfuscated.

The Templars went into Jerusalem from Southern France just before the first Crusade and removed the remaining Artifacts from the Temple of Solomon. These Artifacts and the accompanying Arcana were hidden and preserved away from the power-hungry Catholic Church. The artifacts will stay in their hidden alcoves until Humanity gets enough of a clue to use them.

david: The Artifacts in question are the Temple plans, the various relics other than the Arc and scriptures of lost Arcana. It will be the Templars that come to Jerusalem to build on the Temple mount. Not for Jesus, Solomon or Muhammad but for Humanity. The Arc must find it's own way to the Temple.

The Templars ran the Banking system, founded the Royal Dynasties of Europe and Built Cathedrals on Ancient holy sites, preserving them through integration. Many Pagan sites that would otherwise have been defiled were preserved in this way. There was a tenuous partnership between the Vatican and the Templars. The Vatican got control of Europe and The Templars got the infrastructure. Eventually the Vatican Slaughtered most of the Templars in Europe and crowned one of their leaders "Holy Roman Emperor" through trickery. It's very much like the Jedi actually.

It is the Common interpretation that the heirs to the Templars are the Freemasons of the modern day. This will not be proven until the Temple is Rebuilt or Israel/Palestine is destroyed.

One bit of commentary: I'd really like to see the house of Abraham whole again. Ishmael sits on the doorstep. He is angry and afraid. Love him and bring him inside. He is your brother.
 
How can a religious group say that you have to believe ONE thing, or you will go to hell (or whatever) when there have been millions of people throughout the world who have died and never even heard of this particular religious group.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean. That’s just one of the many reasons I became a Christian: in its 6,000 years of existence on this earth, The Church of Jesus Christ has never taught that horrible, blasphemous doctrine. Everyone who has ever lived — and everyone who will ever live — will be given the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus Christ as Savior. If a person doesn’t receive the opportunity in this life (and billions have not), they will have that chance in the next life. That’s why, since Biblical times, The Church has performed proxy baptisms on behalf of those who did not have that chance in this life (see, for example, 1 Cor. 15:29).

As for those who say there is no God, you’re welcome to your beliefs; but I know He exists — He told me Himself. And He will do the same for you, if you ask Him!

Want to know more about The Church of Jesus Christ?
Check it out here! :D
 
Wow, this thread has been really popular!

Here's another view on religion as an institution:
Blaise Pascal (French philosopher and scientist) put forth an argument called "The Bet" along the following lines-
If God does not exist and you believe in Him, you lose nothing. If God does exist and you do not believe in him, you lose everything.

I think this sums up the way a lot "religious" people feel. You have more to lose by not believing than believing in vain. They are playing the odds for the biggest gain they can see: everlasting life in Heaven.

This brings up many moral questions.
Is religion just a bet people have made in hopes of something better when they die? Is this sort of belief "true" religion? Is this sort of belief any less valid than someone who "really" believes?

Just thought I'd throw this out there and see what you all think.
 
i believe in god, but for one second let's believe there is no god

if having faith gives you happines like let's say, bowling or chess, then faith is a good thing...perhaps even a need for a happy life
 
wooo hey! there is a mormon on board... dig it!
welcome mormon. why advertise for your church rather then for Jesus himself?



just a question...nothing to get hot about.
 
dude... mischief
thats pretty cool how you see some sort of parrallel between parts of biblical history and parts of star wars. i most certainly see it this way also. however truth is stranger then fiction. the bible and its history in terms of its story is definitly way more creative. where do you think George Lucas and Shakepere got there stuff from?

:D
 
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