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Macs and Religion
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Re: krossfyter
again this is where our opinions diverge, I do not believe G-d directly affects the universe, or that G-d has a plan for it, to think this would eliminate the idea of free will. Without free will we are simply animals following instinct, which we are not. To the idea of faith i say its fine and dandy for those who have it. My belief again comes from science, probability, and statistics. Again if there were a specific true faith and G-d directly affected the universe G-d would be punishing people such as hitler and bin laden, because this does not happen it is proof that free will exists, and that there is no set plan for things. Then there comes the saying G-d knows everything, if it is true that G-d created the universe and via the Jewish faith, we were given free will, and non-direct interference, then how does one explain things? how is it explained that G-d spoke to Adam and Eve? Well to begin everyone must understand that when the bible speaks of creation, when a day has passed it does not mean a day, it just signifies a period of time in which something happened. Because we all know dinosaurs were real even tho its not in the bible. So as things were being created the rules were not yet set so technically the rules of time and space didnt hold true. OK how did G-d speak to Adam and Eve, ok finally humans evolve and as an experiment between lucifer and G-d they are given free will. Of course humans F! it up and we get kicked out! ok now enter the arena of quantum theory, so for every choice a subdimension is produced, with the billions of choices being made by billions of people, trillions of subdimensions form. How does G-d know everything? because G-d exists outside of everything and is watching through the "Finder" on his Mac! In order to enter through the finder G-d would abandon all power and immortality, and have to abide by the rules G-d created for this universe. That is the only way it would follow suit with G-d making sense through religion which agrees with science, again its my personal theory. And someone said something about the ark? ok first of all the ark is being held by the vatican. It did not have a temper, rule of thumb was if you were not holy enough to touch it you die. However it could easily be carried because metal rungs were built onto it, and it could be picked up by sliding metal poles through the rungs to lift it. Oh and a sidenote about the tablets holding the commandments, forged by the fire of heaven, umm, they were clear and glowed, and when you turned them around the text was always readable even though the carving was straight through the tablets. Thats how its written anyway! Opinon a function of free will
ah well i'm done for now!
again this is where our opinions diverge, I do not believe G-d directly affects the universe, or that G-d has a plan for it, to think this would eliminate the idea of free will. Without free will we are simply animals following instinct, which we are not. To the idea of faith i say its fine and dandy for those who have it. My belief again comes from science, probability, and statistics. Again if there were a specific true faith and G-d directly affected the universe G-d would be punishing people such as hitler and bin laden, because this does not happen it is proof that free will exists, and that there is no set plan for things. Then there comes the saying G-d knows everything, if it is true that G-d created the universe and via the Jewish faith, we were given free will, and non-direct interference, then how does one explain things? how is it explained that G-d spoke to Adam and Eve? Well to begin everyone must understand that when the bible speaks of creation, when a day has passed it does not mean a day, it just signifies a period of time in which something happened. Because we all know dinosaurs were real even tho its not in the bible. So as things were being created the rules were not yet set so technically the rules of time and space didnt hold true. OK how did G-d speak to Adam and Eve, ok finally humans evolve and as an experiment between lucifer and G-d they are given free will. Of course humans F! it up and we get kicked out! ok now enter the arena of quantum theory, so for every choice a subdimension is produced, with the billions of choices being made by billions of people, trillions of subdimensions form. How does G-d know everything? because G-d exists outside of everything and is watching through the "Finder" on his Mac! In order to enter through the finder G-d would abandon all power and immortality, and have to abide by the rules G-d created for this universe. That is the only way it would follow suit with G-d making sense through religion which agrees with science, again its my personal theory. And someone said something about the ark? ok first of all the ark is being held by the vatican. It did not have a temper, rule of thumb was if you were not holy enough to touch it you die. However it could easily be carried because metal rungs were built onto it, and it could be picked up by sliding metal poles through the rungs to lift it. Oh and a sidenote about the tablets holding the commandments, forged by the fire of heaven, umm, they were clear and glowed, and when you turned them around the text was always readable even though the carving was straight through the tablets. Thats how its written anyway! Opinon a function of free will
ah well i'm done for now!I'm a Christian
Interesting dialogue.
Seems to me that both the Christians and Atheists/Agnostics can both be pretty damned offensive at times.
Nothing like a Christian who tries to force people into Christianity or an Atheist who believes he's simply smarter than everyone else.
Interesting dialogue.
Seems to me that both the Christians and Atheists/Agnostics can both be pretty damned offensive at times.
Nothing like a Christian who tries to force people into Christianity or an Atheist who believes he's simply smarter than everyone else.
and i dont know if i can do it........... o no ive said tooo much... havent said enough....
I was raised southern baptist (if you can believe that), and Im still a Christian at heart. I believe in a personal God.... no so much a religion but a God, although I would lean towards Christianity.
As for my inner-most feelings.......... those are personal, as most people's should be.
I was raised southern baptist (if you can believe that), and Im still a Christian at heart. I believe in a personal God.... no so much a religion but a God, although I would lean towards Christianity.
As for my inner-most feelings.......... those are personal, as most people's should be.
Re: I'm a Christian
are you saying im forcing my views? if so how? i just want to make sure im understanding you thats all.
Originally posted by oldMac
Interesting dialogue.
Seems to me that both the Christians and Atheists/Agnostics can both be pretty damned offensive at times.
Nothing like a Christian who tries to force people into Christianity or an Atheist who believes he's simply smarter than everyone else.
are you saying im forcing my views? if so how? i just want to make sure im understanding you thats all.
Re: Re: I'm a Christian
i have an employee who belongs to a cult...now that is forced views
krossfyter is expressing his opinion and clarifying any points people bring up on certain topics and the same goes with davidc2182
this is a good thread and i am glad that arn and blakespot put this new general discussion on here so this all wouldn't be under article discussion
Originally posted by krossfyter
are you saying im forcing my views? of so how? i just want to make sure im understanding you thats all.
i have an employee who belongs to a cult...now that is forced views
krossfyter is expressing his opinion and clarifying any points people bring up on certain topics and the same goes with davidc2182
this is a good thread and i am glad that arn and blakespot put this new general discussion on here so this all wouldn't be under article discussion
The Ark.
I can assure you the Catholic church has NEVER been in posession of the Relics from Solomon's temple. They were removed by Templars, not Catholic crusaders.
The Ark was, as you say not so much tempermental as simply very risky to be around. The "zapping people at random" comment covers several instances where one or several of those charged with it's care were "deemed unworthy" in the most dramatic way possible.
The structure and transportation: The Arc was a wood box, lined on all surfaces with gold leaf, approximately one metre by one metre by two metres. The metal rings were used specifically with wooden poles and a very specific costume as shielding. From the description the thing sounded like a small microwave to-orbit tranciever powered by the tablets. When I say small I'm referring to size. The thing had rediculous residual radiation and a high incidence of arcing discharge.
The whole description of the thing sounds like a rather exotic and ingenious version of a "scalar" EM device of the like built by Tesla or similar to the HAARP and OTH radar installations and Soviet "kamchatka device".
The Ark is also described with accompanying devices for construction that support this theory.
Now that I've alarmed the conspiracy theorists I'll get back to Macs. Cheers!
I can assure you the Catholic church has NEVER been in posession of the Relics from Solomon's temple. They were removed by Templars, not Catholic crusaders.
The Ark was, as you say not so much tempermental as simply very risky to be around. The "zapping people at random" comment covers several instances where one or several of those charged with it's care were "deemed unworthy" in the most dramatic way possible.
The structure and transportation: The Arc was a wood box, lined on all surfaces with gold leaf, approximately one metre by one metre by two metres. The metal rings were used specifically with wooden poles and a very specific costume as shielding. From the description the thing sounded like a small microwave to-orbit tranciever powered by the tablets. When I say small I'm referring to size. The thing had rediculous residual radiation and a high incidence of arcing discharge.
The whole description of the thing sounds like a rather exotic and ingenious version of a "scalar" EM device of the like built by Tesla or similar to the HAARP and OTH radar installations and Soviet "kamchatka device".
The Ark is also described with accompanying devices for construction that support this theory.
Now that I've alarmed the conspiracy theorists I'll get back to Macs. Cheers!
Im beginning to be sorry I ever started this thread. Its been great, dont get m wrong, but its forming into the typical cliche'd mess about philisophy, culture, history, bigotry, 'I'm right's' and 'you're wrong's' (which everyone is guilty of on some scale, myself included), and just general mouth-flapping.
Bottom line is:
I think the most honest thing anyone can ever say about religion is this:
I don't know, I just don't know.
What more can you say? If you say you know the truth, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong, and many/MOST cases, you probably are. Everything is relative, I dont care what you say. There are no absolute truths. None. The only thing definite in my mind is that love, forgiveness, and respect are the most important things in the world---religion be damned.
Bottom line is:
I think the most honest thing anyone can ever say about religion is this:
I don't know, I just don't know.
What more can you say? If you say you know the truth, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong, and many/MOST cases, you probably are. Everything is relative, I dont care what you say. There are no absolute truths. None. The only thing definite in my mind is that love, forgiveness, and respect are the most important things in the world---religion be damned.
Yep. We just like debating the semantics. Christianity gets the most attention because it has the most gaps in it's story. I haven't even gotten into the whole "sons of Abraham must live as one family" rant.
why must people get offended. were just talking here. its cool. really.
no need to treat this topic with fear. whats there to worry about if you yourself know your own views and hold to them. is one afraid of being wrong? is that why people have a heartburn over conversations about religion? once again someone has said or alluded to everything being relative..(agreenster..i believe) and respectfully i say that everthing cant be relative because then there cant be any truth. its as simple as that. there is a black and there is a white....there are grays also. go ahead and believe what you want and decide for yourslef what is black and what is white etc. etc. but its illogical to believe there are not blacks and no white (by saying that there then cant be any greys).
there are moral definites (absolutes)...
if i throw a ball up in the air it will come back down due to the force of gravity. this is a physical force that is an absolute....we know its there....we cant even see it with our naked eye. why argue that there are no moral forces pulling us? because we cant see um? i challenge you to rethink that falicy in logic. i understand if you dont want to believe something as narrow and fine tuned as the Concept of one savior and one truth...but that doesnt mean one cant give up on logic.
i respect everyone on here and i have never been offended by what anyone has said no matter how far away from my view they are. i encourage, read and welcome all points of view and thoughts.
no need to treat this topic with fear. whats there to worry about if you yourself know your own views and hold to them. is one afraid of being wrong? is that why people have a heartburn over conversations about religion? once again someone has said or alluded to everything being relative..(agreenster..i believe) and respectfully i say that everthing cant be relative because then there cant be any truth. its as simple as that. there is a black and there is a white....there are grays also. go ahead and believe what you want and decide for yourslef what is black and what is white etc. etc. but its illogical to believe there are not blacks and no white (by saying that there then cant be any greys).
there are moral definites (absolutes)...
if i throw a ball up in the air it will come back down due to the force of gravity. this is a physical force that is an absolute....we know its there....we cant even see it with our naked eye. why argue that there are no moral forces pulling us? because we cant see um? i challenge you to rethink that falicy in logic. i understand if you dont want to believe something as narrow and fine tuned as the Concept of one savior and one truth...but that doesnt mean one cant give up on logic.
i respect everyone on here and i have never been offended by what anyone has said no matter how far away from my view they are. i encourage, read and welcome all points of view and thoughts.
list the gaps that you talk about?
make sure these "gaps" are not just mis understanding of the text.
i know a lot of people that say "the bible has so many contradictions"...etc. etc. but most of these people misinterpret or dont understand the scripture. you have to take the bible in as a whole not take little words or phrases out of context. one must consider the context.
somtimes what appears to be a gap can be closed upon futher insepction and understanding. i wont are that there are i never see any gaps in the bible....but i assure you i know its due to my lack of understanding.
(shrug)
Gaps as a historical document or even as a translation. The accounts of several Apostles are missing and many dates and events were altered, added or eliminated.
This has NO effect on the relevance of the Christian faith. Faith is Faith, period. As a belief system, it's one of the most thoroughly designed and tested products in History. As a historical document, it's the National Inquirer.
Gaps as a historical document or even as a translation. The accounts of several Apostles are missing and many dates and events were altered, added or eliminated.
This has NO effect on the relevance of the Christian faith. Faith is Faith, period. As a belief system, it's one of the most thoroughly designed and tested products in History. As a historical document, it's the National Inquirer.
Re: (shrug)
okay. i hear ya there. i myself wonder why on these. your right faith wise it is not a problem. as a historical document its better then anything man has written.
okay. i hear ya there. i myself wonder why on these. your right faith wise it is not a problem. as a historical document its better then anything man has written.
Irony.
Ever wondered how "rational" minds came up with the "big bang" theory?
I think they liked it because it made the universe finite and was familiar to their victorian minds. I've noticed that physicists are incredibly stubborn about getting away from 4000 year old theories and just working with what's been observed.
Fight hard enough against entreanched Dogma and you create one just as entreanched with nearly identical beliefs. This has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with ego. Most physicists woud die before saying "I really don't know."
I have always believed that some essence of both arguments are true. The one thing I disagree with in BOTH is a finite universe. It's a contradictory arguement in 2 words. By definition a Universe is INFINITE. 4000 years of philosophy and the Fire Monkey is still breaking rocks looking for Pixie Dust.
Ever wondered how "rational" minds came up with the "big bang" theory?
I think they liked it because it made the universe finite and was familiar to their victorian minds. I've noticed that physicists are incredibly stubborn about getting away from 4000 year old theories and just working with what's been observed.
Fight hard enough against entreanched Dogma and you create one just as entreanched with nearly identical beliefs. This has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with ego. Most physicists woud die before saying "I really don't know."
I have always believed that some essence of both arguments are true. The one thing I disagree with in BOTH is a finite universe. It's a contradictory arguement in 2 words. By definition a Universe is INFINITE. 4000 years of philosophy and the Fire Monkey is still breaking rocks looking for Pixie Dust.
Originally posted by mischief
Yep. We just like debating the semantics. Christianity gets the most attention because it has the most gaps in it's story. I haven't even gotten into the whole "sons of Abraham must live as one family" rant.
Oh, I don't know about this. I don't think Christianity has any more holes in it than any other belief system. Perhaps we just encounter more people in the US who insist that the holes don't exist.
Personally, I was raised Christian, but always had this little secret shame because I wasn't having these mystic, life-transforming experiences, the blissful sense of communion with the almighty and so forth that everyone else swore they had on a regular basis (I had a grandmother who claimed God spoke to her, literally). And it's not like I didn't try or lacked sincerety, but it was like when somebody says they hear a noise, and you start listening really closely, and then you think maybe you hear something, but you're not sure you're not just imagining what it would be like if you were hearing whatever it is. It took me a little longer than I would want to admit to conclude that this was probably just an "emperor's new clothes" phenomenon, and that if I was claiming to have these experiences so that people wouldn't know God had jilted me, then it's pretty likely that I'm not alone in that.
So I'm now an atheist/agnostic. I might be wrong, but you can't say I didn't give God a fair shot, and He didn't return my calls, so to speak. On a broader scale, I'm a skeptic. Skepticism gets a bad rap. Skeptics are pictured as being like the two old hecklers in the balcony on the Muppet Show. Personally, I've found that there's enough beauty and wonder in the so-called "mundane" universe that I really don't feel the need to invent things to spice it up.
Don't get me wrong. I recognize that religion can do very good things in some people's lives. I have utmost respect for the likes of Mother Theresa or Buddhist monks who seriously walk the talk. But I don't see that often. If religion leads people to be better humans than they would be without it, then yay for religion. Personally, I think I'm a better person without it. A set of arbitrary rules handed down from on high has less impact on me than a rational system of ethics based on tangible consequences and a fundamental respect and empathy for other individuals. That may not be the case for everyone.
But the one thing I really hate is to see cases where religion (or lack thereof) makes people worse off and more meanspirited than the alternative. People have this nasty instinctive drive to categorize themselves in groups and to automatically assume that being in the group makes one better than being out of the group. Instead of using our rational, thinking brains to fight this irrational tendency, we rationalize, and the result is discrimination and hate. As a matter of principle, I reject the notion that membership in a group has any effect whatsoever on the value of an individual in himself.
To many I'm a heretic. Fine.
-Gelfin,
One thing I've noticed is that anxiety gets you what you DON'T want and praying for divine intervention doesn't get you jack if you don't do the work yourself. That is: there are no easy solutions. You may as well ask Arn to set your Posts to 2k so you can have an Avatar. The sysop has better things to do than solve our grievances for us.
To sum up: Praying to G-d or whomever for world peace is useless if it isn't a meditation on what YOU can do. Be civil, smile at a Bum to brighten his day, laugh randomly for the sheer joy of being and above all......let the little stuff go. We CAN have this goal if we all get a life and play nice. 3000 year old grudges are intollerably stupid. Nationalism and worrying about "cultural degradation" is childish and only shows how little we've learned in more than 10,000 years of playing Civilization. Sometimes I understand stories like Babylon.......It's like Arn clearing out the troll posts.......Reality gets sick of it after a while.
-Gelfin,
One thing I've noticed is that anxiety gets you what you DON'T want and praying for divine intervention doesn't get you jack if you don't do the work yourself. That is: there are no easy solutions. You may as well ask Arn to set your Posts to 2k so you can have an Avatar. The sysop has better things to do than solve our grievances for us.
To sum up: Praying to G-d or whomever for world peace is useless if it isn't a meditation on what YOU can do. Be civil, smile at a Bum to brighten his day, laugh randomly for the sheer joy of being and above all......let the little stuff go. We CAN have this goal if we all get a life and play nice. 3000 year old grudges are intollerably stupid. Nationalism and worrying about "cultural degradation" is childish and only shows how little we've learned in more than 10,000 years of playing Civilization. Sometimes I understand stories like Babylon.......It's like Arn clearing out the troll posts.......Reality gets sick of it after a while.
Everything is still relative.
You take an 'absolute' truth, and test it one time--and BAM its instantly relative. 'Absolute truths' should be used as guidelines for a relative situation. Jesus gave us some of those--forgiveness, love, respect.
I wish you could have taken a class I took about the new testament. It really changed my views on things. Let me give you an example:
Jesus never said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and The Life." That was recorded 1000BC by the greeks, who claimed that one of their fertility goddesses said this. So, 1300 years later, when the Apostles were trying to convert the Greeks to christianity, they wrote the Gospel According to John, and included the passage "I am the way, the truth and the life" as spoken by Jesus. This helped to convince the greeks that Jesus was a diety. There was more to their writing then just fact telling. Dont forget, history was recorded differently back then. It wasnt rooted in fact, but perception. Many of Jesus' sayings are more of the Apostles perceptions. Paul didnt even know Jesus, yet he was the one who spread the gospel more than anyone. Doesnt that make you wonder? And dont tell me that he 'met' Jesus on the road to Damascus. Thats just more hocus pocus superstition that no one in their right mind should believe in. Its literature--its fiction.
You take an 'absolute' truth, and test it one time--and BAM its instantly relative. 'Absolute truths' should be used as guidelines for a relative situation. Jesus gave us some of those--forgiveness, love, respect.
I wish you could have taken a class I took about the new testament. It really changed my views on things. Let me give you an example:
Jesus never said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and The Life." That was recorded 1000BC by the greeks, who claimed that one of their fertility goddesses said this. So, 1300 years later, when the Apostles were trying to convert the Greeks to christianity, they wrote the Gospel According to John, and included the passage "I am the way, the truth and the life" as spoken by Jesus. This helped to convince the greeks that Jesus was a diety. There was more to their writing then just fact telling. Dont forget, history was recorded differently back then. It wasnt rooted in fact, but perception. Many of Jesus' sayings are more of the Apostles perceptions. Paul didnt even know Jesus, yet he was the one who spread the gospel more than anyone. Doesnt that make you wonder? And dont tell me that he 'met' Jesus on the road to Damascus. Thats just more hocus pocus superstition that no one in their right mind should believe in. Its literature--its fiction.
jesus is god to me, not just lord, not just jehovah, or any other watered down interpretation
he is also not just a prophet, mystic, or avatar
anyone with that much love and forgiveness is not human...anyone who rose from the dead and showed himself to at least 500 witnesses, many of them not his believers, did something divine...jimmy swaggart is not christ, the christian right is not christ, and christ is not just a son of god or a lord...he is simply and humbly god
this sounds crazy, but if you were god and you wanted to make a statement, what good would it do to blow up the earth? why not show the greatness in god by having compassion and hanging out with the throw away people of society and give them comfort...mother theresa saw this and took christ's footsteps
that's my 2 cents
agreenster...
i respectfully disagree with what you said about realtivity and Jesus.
I have heard that argument before about the diety of Jesus. One can find a lot of info all over the place denying the Christ in Christ....All that is Jesus. Nothings surprising.. By the way what new testament class are you talking specifically and whos the proffesor and where is it at...and who funds it and supports it?
I hold to all the views of C.S. Lewis about Christ. I have searched high and low on both sides and found that C.S. Lewis's ideas and views are the most profound, rational, logical and sound.... with uncanny and amazing splendor and accuracy.
So if Jesus wasnt not claiming to be God why was he crucified at all? This is your question to answer agreenster...since you are dealing with this diety topic of Christ...im sure you have an argument agains that. I just want to see which one it is...cause I know of a few that are cheesy but i want to see if you can come up with a better one.
i respectfully disagree with what you said about realtivity and Jesus.
I have heard that argument before about the diety of Jesus. One can find a lot of info all over the place denying the Christ in Christ....All that is Jesus. Nothings surprising.. By the way what new testament class are you talking specifically and whos the proffesor and where is it at...and who funds it and supports it?
I hold to all the views of C.S. Lewis about Christ. I have searched high and low on both sides and found that C.S. Lewis's ideas and views are the most profound, rational, logical and sound.... with uncanny and amazing splendor and accuracy.
So if Jesus wasnt not claiming to be God why was he crucified at all? This is your question to answer agreenster...since you are dealing with this diety topic of Christ...im sure you have an argument agains that. I just want to see which one it is...cause I know of a few that are cheesy but i want to see if you can come up with a better one.
Well... I'm a newbie but I can't resist the chance to offend or piss people off. So I'll say it. I'm a witch. Full, freestyle Wiccan. My impressions of God are nothing like the Christian version; I'm almost Taoist as far as God (or the Goddess) being an all-encompassing force. None of this Jesus Sinner Brimstone God-is-such-an-egotist-that-he-demands-worship crap for me. I believe to honnor the Goddess, one must only honor what She has given us, in the form of our bodies, minds, and of course the Earth. I do believe in spellcasting (now i'm loosing people aren't i)... Not that Buffy the Vampire Slayer crap where there's smoke and magic powder and junk... But using the inherent force of the Goddess inside onesself to positively affect something. One might, for instance, do a spell for the healing of a friend-- it would use my positive energy to add to their life force, karma as some call it. Spellcasting can also be negative, but I won't go there. It's bad for everyone.
But more to the point... I believe in soul reincarnation, that your accumulated karma over many many lifetimes determines the fate of the soul. Some people in my way of thinking (and I'm not just talking about stoners here, I swear...) believe you are reincarnated until your karma is pure good, as in you go on a mass-murdering rampage, and you're gonna have some very hard lifes ahead of you to work it off. I cannot fathom that, with the state of the world as it is now... I would think as souls continually came closer to perfection, the world would be a better place, not worse? Now we've got stem-cell research and modern warfare and Microsoft, that can't be right...
Okay enough of that. see? this is why I don't talk much [ever]...
---edit
Okay I just reread that after posting it, and I had no idea how judgemental that sounded... Referring to Jesus as 'all that crap' wasn't the best choice of words... I'm certainly not putting anyone's religion down, that's totally against Wiccanism. But that's how I see it. It confuses me to hear people so zealous about Jesus Christ this, and Jesus Christ that. Personally, I think that the soul of Jesus is an enlightened one... The same one that was Buddah, and Krishna, etc etc... If you look at the big name human/god teachers in religion, I think they make up sides of the same being. Jesus taught discipline. Krishna taught playfulness. Buddah taught inner reflection. To me, taking any of these teachings by itself can be dangerous. But put them together, and wow! Talk about well rounded. I think this particular teacher's soul is the Goddess's way of saying "Look here, you might find this useful" over and over again. They all played a pivotal role in shaping their society. But I can't imagine, IMHO, that this teacher wants to be regarded as God incarnate. Anyway I digress. My point is, to each his own. The Wiccan statement is, "An it harm none, do as ye will" meaning as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, directly or indirectly, go ahead.
I'm just a little hurt by a Christian right now... My partner's mother seems to think Wicca is spelled s-a-t-a-n, and she has accused me of leading him away from the Catholic church. yeah, considering he stopped going 10 years before I met him. So I view her acts as hurtful, therefore I cannot fully respect the beliefs that lead to that.
Okay this post is going on 10 pages... I got all hopped up on cold medicine and just started ranting. I better get to bed before I have my own little trip through the cosmos
Blessed be,
paul
But more to the point... I believe in soul reincarnation, that your accumulated karma over many many lifetimes determines the fate of the soul. Some people in my way of thinking (and I'm not just talking about stoners here, I swear...) believe you are reincarnated until your karma is pure good, as in you go on a mass-murdering rampage, and you're gonna have some very hard lifes ahead of you to work it off. I cannot fathom that, with the state of the world as it is now... I would think as souls continually came closer to perfection, the world would be a better place, not worse? Now we've got stem-cell research and modern warfare and Microsoft, that can't be right...
Okay enough of that. see? this is why I don't talk much [ever]...
---edit
Okay I just reread that after posting it, and I had no idea how judgemental that sounded... Referring to Jesus as 'all that crap' wasn't the best choice of words... I'm certainly not putting anyone's religion down, that's totally against Wiccanism. But that's how I see it. It confuses me to hear people so zealous about Jesus Christ this, and Jesus Christ that. Personally, I think that the soul of Jesus is an enlightened one... The same one that was Buddah, and Krishna, etc etc... If you look at the big name human/god teachers in religion, I think they make up sides of the same being. Jesus taught discipline. Krishna taught playfulness. Buddah taught inner reflection. To me, taking any of these teachings by itself can be dangerous. But put them together, and wow! Talk about well rounded. I think this particular teacher's soul is the Goddess's way of saying "Look here, you might find this useful" over and over again. They all played a pivotal role in shaping their society. But I can't imagine, IMHO, that this teacher wants to be regarded as God incarnate. Anyway I digress. My point is, to each his own. The Wiccan statement is, "An it harm none, do as ye will" meaning as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, directly or indirectly, go ahead.
I'm just a little hurt by a Christian right now... My partner's mother seems to think Wicca is spelled s-a-t-a-n, and she has accused me of leading him away from the Catholic church. yeah, considering he stopped going 10 years before I met him. So I view her acts as hurtful, therefore I cannot fully respect the beliefs that lead to that.
Okay this post is going on 10 pages... I got all hopped up on cold medicine and just started ranting. I better get to bed before I have my own little trip through the cosmos
Blessed be,
paul
heh heh...
Those Muppet guys in the balcony were funny.
Krossfyter, I wasn't referring to you in any way with regards to Christians who try to force their religion on people. I was just making a general comment.
anyone with that much love and forgiveness is not human...anyone who rose from the dead and showed himself to at least 500 witnesses, many of them not his believers, did something divine...jimmy swaggart is not christ, the christian right is not christ, and christ is not just a son of god or a lord...he is simply and humbly god
Very well-spoken, Jef.
Those Muppet guys in the balcony were funny.
Krossfyter, I wasn't referring to you in any way with regards to Christians who try to force their religion on people. I was just making a general comment.
anyone with that much love and forgiveness is not human...anyone who rose from the dead and showed himself to at least 500 witnesses, many of them not his believers, did something divine...jimmy swaggart is not christ, the christian right is not christ, and christ is not just a son of god or a lord...he is simply and humbly god
Very well-spoken, Jef.
---edit
Okay I just reread that after posting it, and I had no idea how judgemental that sounded... Referring to Jesus as 'all that crap' wasn't the best choice of words... I'm certainly not putting anyone's religion down, that's totally against Wiccanism. But that's how I see it. It confuses me to hear people so zealous about Jesus Christ this, and Jesus Christ that. Personally, I think that the soul of Jesus is an enlightened one... The same one that was Buddah, and Krishna, etc etc... If you look at the big name human/god teachers in religion, I think they make up sides of the same being. Jesus taught discipline. Krishna taught playfulness. Buddah taught inner reflection. To me, taking any of these teachings by itself can be dangerous. But put them together, and wow! Talk about well rounded. I think this particular teacher's soul is the Goddess's way of saying "Look here, you might find this useful" over and over again. They all played a pivotal role in shaping their society. But I can't imagine, IMHO, that this teacher wants to be regarded as God incarnate. Anyway I digress. My point is, to each his own. The Wiccan statement is, "An it harm none, do as ye will" meaning as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, directly or indirectly, go ahead.
I'm just a little hurt by a Christian right now... My partner's mother seems to think Wicca is spelled s-a-t-a-n, and she has accused me of leading him away from the Catholic church. yeah, considering he stopped going 10 years before I met him. So I view her acts as hurtful, therefore I cannot fully respect the beliefs that lead to that.
Okay this post is going on 10 pages... I got all hopped up on cold medicine and just started ranting. I better get to bed before I have my own little trip through the cosmos
Blessed be,
paul [/B][/QUOTE]
people who don't understand others' beliefs, especially wicca, are going to follow a negative hollywood stereotype and give you flak
being a christian, these days, make some believe i belong to a cult by the view of the majority in this country (usa)...there are however many cults built around the term christian or christ but i am not one of them and i suffer for it like you have believing in wicca
like i mentioned, my employee belongs to a cult and his money goes to it disproportionately in my view but to the average person, i get mixed up with him as being in the same lot because we both believe in christ...except in the end many of his church end up with therapists in ritual abuse treatment
Okay I just reread that after posting it, and I had no idea how judgemental that sounded... Referring to Jesus as 'all that crap' wasn't the best choice of words... I'm certainly not putting anyone's religion down, that's totally against Wiccanism. But that's how I see it. It confuses me to hear people so zealous about Jesus Christ this, and Jesus Christ that. Personally, I think that the soul of Jesus is an enlightened one... The same one that was Buddah, and Krishna, etc etc... If you look at the big name human/god teachers in religion, I think they make up sides of the same being. Jesus taught discipline. Krishna taught playfulness. Buddah taught inner reflection. To me, taking any of these teachings by itself can be dangerous. But put them together, and wow! Talk about well rounded. I think this particular teacher's soul is the Goddess's way of saying "Look here, you might find this useful" over and over again. They all played a pivotal role in shaping their society. But I can't imagine, IMHO, that this teacher wants to be regarded as God incarnate. Anyway I digress. My point is, to each his own. The Wiccan statement is, "An it harm none, do as ye will" meaning as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, directly or indirectly, go ahead.
I'm just a little hurt by a Christian right now... My partner's mother seems to think Wicca is spelled s-a-t-a-n, and she has accused me of leading him away from the Catholic church. yeah, considering he stopped going 10 years before I met him. So I view her acts as hurtful, therefore I cannot fully respect the beliefs that lead to that.
Okay this post is going on 10 pages... I got all hopped up on cold medicine and just started ranting. I better get to bed before I have my own little trip through the cosmos
Blessed be,
paul [/B][/QUOTE]
people who don't understand others' beliefs, especially wicca, are going to follow a negative hollywood stereotype and give you flak
being a christian, these days, make some believe i belong to a cult by the view of the majority in this country (usa)...there are however many cults built around the term christian or christ but i am not one of them and i suffer for it like you have believing in wicca
like i mentioned, my employee belongs to a cult and his money goes to it disproportionately in my view but to the average person, i get mixed up with him as being in the same lot because we both believe in christ...except in the end many of his church end up with therapists in ritual abuse treatment
Re: mischief and krossfyter
to mischief who in the blue hell are the templars? it sounds like something out of starcraft! and to krossfyter there is a better historical document than the new testament if thats what your referring to, its the old testament!
to mischief who in the blue hell are the templars? it sounds like something out of starcraft! and to krossfyter there is a better historical document than the new testament if thats what your referring to, its the old testament!
Re: Re: mischief and krossfyter
i dont think i was arguing that the new testament was a better historical document then the old testament... i would never do that. i would never do the opposite either. i think its riduculous because both hold true to each other. Jesus Christ was the prophetic fullfillment of the old testament...etc. etc. (im sure you disagree).
now if your just telling me this and making a statement ...then disregard this.
i dont think i was arguing that the new testament was a better historical document then the old testament... i would never do that. i would never do the opposite either. i think its riduculous because both hold true to each other. Jesus Christ was the prophetic fullfillment of the old testament...etc. etc. (im sure you disagree).
now if your just telling me this and making a statement ...then disregard this.