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ppc_michael

Guest
Apr 26, 2005
1,498
2
Los Angeles, CA
I've had Macs and PCs. Currently I am running a PC I built.

The software is there on either platform. For general use, it really just comes down to personal preference and your budget. If you're used to Windows, build a PC. You can get some really nice cases for a little more money, and it will still probably be cheaper than a full Mac setup.

If you're interested in a Mac, get a Mac and you'll probably grow to like it as well. It'll be a little more expensive though.
 

SuperBrown

macrumors regular
Jan 15, 2008
113
42
Hollywoodland
If so many people like it, I want to be part of it as well. However I do not see why someone would prefer a Mac to a PC, and I want to know.

It's called personal preference. I like OS X. I like the software I can run on OS X. I like the design of Macs. For my uses, it's great. Also, I personally dislike other operating systems, namely Windows, but that's me. Again, personal preference is what it comes down to.

You obviously have a preference towards PCs, so go with that and be done with it. Or buy a Mac, be part of "it" and be done with it.

Or are you just here to be a passive-aggresive troll? Sounds like that might be the case.
 

jljue

macrumors 6502
Feb 4, 2011
281
57
Brandon, MS
It's more about preference. I have a Late 2008 MacBook Pro at home that I use most of the time (as well as a 2009 Mac Mini) for video editing, ProPresenter, and programming, and I use a Sandy Bridge Core i7 Toshiba Tecra running Windows 7 Pro at work for Controls Engineering work (HMI, PLC programming, SQL, programming). The Toshiba is designed pretty nicely, but the keyboard and touchpad don't function as smoothly as the ones on my MBP and Windows still bogs down like any other Windows PC after a bit of time. Before the SSD install (just a Sandisk Ultra), my C2D MBP ran circles around the Sandy Bridge Core i7--just feels snappier and more responsive in my normal tasks, like starting programs, booting up, etc., but the Core i7 would hold its own for heavy loads.

Since you mention building one your own, it sound like you want a desktop. While I like the option of expanding with a desktop PC, I really don't do nearly as much maintenance to my Macs at home as I do to just one of the hundreds of PC's that I administer/maintain. Some days, downtime caused by Microsoft related issues are enough for me to pull my hair out and want to get drunk when I go home.

My preference is the one that I have to maintain the least--feels the least like work. That's why I use Macs at home. I do enough of it at work. I can use a Mac at home and end up having more time to do other things. I also started drinking less when using a Mac.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,478
43,405
OS X is much more than a limited version of linux. much more

OSX is not Linux, it based off BSD a flavor of Unix, not linux ;)


OP, look at the apps you want, are they available on windows or OSX? Get the one that best fills that need. I think for gaming windows has the edge.

OSX as a system is great at memory management and multitasking, heck just about any modern day OS is, so I'd not even consider that a major reason to choose since they all do a great job

An OS's job is to run applications, figure our what apps you need/want and pick the platform that best fits those needs
 
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scaredpoet

macrumors 604
Apr 6, 2007
6,627
342
Before I get into this: I used Windows on custom-built PCs and was a rabid windows fanboy until March, 2007. I shared a lot of the same points of view as the OP, and frankly, the me from now would give the me from pre March 2007 a pretty heavy beatdown if that encounter ever were to occur.

Why did I switch to OS X? Vista. I see that Windows 7 is vastly improved and I recommend it heavily to to PC-using friends, but Windows 8 I don't like much.

And I still custom-build PCs. They tend to run linux, usually Ubuntu or OpenSuSE. But I don't use them for enterprise deployments, and would never recommend doing that to anyone.

I used to be a network admin at a college that uses only custom built PCs, specially made for different uses like modeling, game design, distributed computer systems;

"Used to be" is a pretty key statement. In the higher ed environment I work for, the sysadmin whose stubborn philosophy of going with only custom-built systems became a "used to be" as well. He was fired because his approach didn't scale and wasn't reliable, among many other reasons (his smug attitude towards "uneducated users" was another).

There isn't a whole lot of customization required for game design and modeling that a commercial vendor can't offer you. Distributed computing is also handled quite competently by commercial vendors who have economies of scale to their advantage and can pass the savings on to a significantly large institution if it means making the sale.

Most colleges I've been to also shun the custom-box approach except for very limited, justified, specific circumstances where research applications demand a very specific hardware approach that can't be obtained commercially. And even then, those projects typically consist of buying commercially-built systems and then modifying them to suit the need.

If you're home brewing a system, it's very easy to tout reliability and then blame yourself for the actual failures. When you buy custom, you're on your own for support. And frankly, any IT department for an organization of decent size isn't going to pay an IT professional to sit with screwdrivers and spare parts bought off newegg replacing failed components, when a PC vendor will express ship you a replacement for far less cost. The IT folks are busy enough deploying, budgeting and handling software and system administration duties.

So, that's my first red flag about you.


and we never considered using macs because of the lack of compatibility and freedom.

Elaborate. what lack of freedom? Have you actuallly used a Mac, and by "use" I mean, not just poked at it an an Apple Store and talked trash about it because you couldn't find a start menu?

No, you clearly haven't. There's a LOT of things I do with my Mac, beyond the app store, beyond the Cocoa interface, beyond the pretty icons not he dock menu, that I find work far better than what I'd have to do to make those same things work on Windows.


So, that's my second red flag.

And, what incompatibility? I've not run into a single thing I can't do on my mac that Windows machines can do. Yeah, fewer FPS games exist on the OS X platform, but if you really want that, you can boot into Windows.

If you want to stick with Windows, fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't spout "lack of freedom" and "incompatibility" as reasons unless you can back it up with specific examples... not just because these are things you've heard OTHER people within your windows-centric clique say.


The 40+% failure rate of foxconn motherboards/PSUs make me uncomfortable when buying them in large amounts, so we never used them.

There's this old axiom that holds true here: you get what you pay for. If you're gonna buy the $45 foxconn motherboard from newegg, or even the $68 model, then you shouldn't be surprised at seeing a 40% failure rate. If you buy a homebrew commodity component and press into service in an enterprise application, your failure rates are gonna be high. There should be nothing surprising about that.

On the other hand, I doubt that Apple is paying homebrew prices for its components, and from my experience and the experience of others around me, the failure rate is way, way lower than 40%. We still have some 8 year old quad core Mac Pro G4s that are still running to this day, and have never been sent in for any kind of service.

As for the problems that you had with windows, the computers were improperly maintained unless it was a manufacturing defect(windows will not disobey unless the software running on the windows OS does what you do not want it to do. It is YOUR fault for blaming the OS instead of the software developer. Who uses Cytrix anyways?).

This is a poor cop-out from someone who feels they must rabidly defend the perfection of Windows. You don't know his situation. Not everyone problem is caused by the user.

By rights, it's very easy for me to say that the hardware issues you're having with foxconn are your own fault for going homebrew.

Everyone at the college who went for a degree in CS/EE/MA preferred a PC, and only the students who majored in liberal arts prefer the mac due to lack of knowledge of computers in general.

I can assure you that isn't the case in every college. Perhaps it is in small technical colleges, that require PCs as part of their curriculum to run mandated pieces of software that they no doubt get vendor kickbacks for requiring their use. But in real universities, the platform choice is eft to the student, and I see lots of CS students running linux on laptops and OS X on Macs.

Not to mention, if we go ahead and accept your stereotype of the dumb liberal arts student, then their choice of using a Mac points out an important fact: non-tech-savvy people tend to use and recommend things that don't break down on them. If they use macs, it's because it's easier for them and less of a hassle for them to deal with.

Hanging by your thumbs and using something more obtuse and difficult to work with doesn't make you smarter.


Now that I think back to this, I might not want a mac anymore

I think you'd be doing us all a big favor by not getting a mac.


That is an opinion, I dislike mac only software due to its heavy limitations and poor portability/compatibility compared to a PC alternative.


Examples, please.

Also, a $1000 PC can render a video over 5 times faster than a $1000 mac, 15 times if GPU accelerated.

That hasn't been my experience, at all.

many people like it, I want to be part of it as well. However I do not see why someone would prefer a Mac to a PC, and I want to know.

I think it's more accurate to say: you see an increasing number of people with these shiny silver laptops and cute looking phones and tablets, all with this iconic fruit-shaped logo on them, and you feel threatened by the fact that they seem to prefer to use them over your preferred platform. You can't possibly understand why anyone would do that, and want to know what their silly, stupid, clearly illogical reasoning is for it.

On the other hand, most people in IT who tend to stay it for any appreciable period and gain any of level of respect understand that PCs aren't for everyone, and neither are Macs, and neither are linux boxes. The needs of the user need to be understood, and there is no reason to put down someone's use of a platform different from your preference, so long as it works out for them.

Bottom line: Enjoy your PC. I'm happy using my Mac.

I bet you think ASUS is worse than Foxconn.

Actually, I've used Asus to build some custom PCs. They have their good components that will run forever, and really bad components that have horribly high failure rates.

All in all, they're as good as foxconn in the homebrew market. And like foxconn, they probably reserve their higher quality components for commercial, large scale hardware vendors who will pay more for that higher quality.


I have never had a problem with finding drivers for Lunix.

I seriously doubt that if you spell it "lunix" (which you have twice already), you're ever actually used "lunix."


If I REALLY need a driver, I can just make one. Can you do that on a Mac?

As a matter of fact, you can. And many do just that. But you'd know this, if you actually used a Mac and were truly informed enough to validly criticize it.

By the way, if you've ever printed a document using a printer on "lunix," you can thank Apple for the print engine, and for most of the drivers.
 
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LorenK

macrumors 6502
Dec 26, 2007
391
153
Illinois
lower quality compared to a self built PC.

You must be one damn good PC builder to say better quality than a Mac. My PCs, not self built, have continual problems, while my Macs have consistently been plug and play.

If you are looking to customize, then yes, you have to spend lots of money for a MacPro and you're not likely to soup it up for the same money as you could a collection of PC parts, so then why are you asking?

The way I view a Mac is that it is a tool that doesn't require you to continually adjust it depending on how it is used. If that's what you're looking for, then a Mac is right for you. If, on the other hand, you like to tinker with your tools or need to customize them to suit your needs, then you're better off in the Wintel playground, because, Lord knows, you certainly need to tinker to get Wintel to work consistently.
 

macsmurf

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2007
1,200
948
Everyone at the college who went for a degree in CS/EE/MA preferred a PC, and only the students who majored in liberal arts prefer the mac due to lack of knowledge of computers in general.

Go to an industry Java conference or Google I/O for that matter. You'll notice lots of people in the audience and on stage using macs. I use a mac professionally programming Java and for me the combination of a nice GUI and a native terminal is the best of two worlds.

Now that I think back to this, I might not want a mac anymore; but I would still like to know why you guys do.

Actually, what you _really_ want is to rile up people but you're not very good at it. :)

I have never had a problem with finding drivers for Lunix. If I REALLY need a driver, I can just make one. Can you do that on a Mac?

The first step to creating a driver for an OS is probably to learn the correct name for that OS.
 

NastyTrorr

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 21, 2012
23
0
Now I am hearing 2 different sides, one thinks it is ALL preference, and the other thinks the mac is better than a PC.

And here's your first error. Running an all-Mac shop, we have no "compatability" problems. Period. This solves 95% of our problems. Robust Macs, robust OSX, in an all-Mac environment, means we never have trouble.

Oh, need a Windows product? Also not a problem -- just boot into Windows 7 using bootcamp (which we never have to do, thankfully).

Try having no compatibility issues when every student has to present information on different computers and sometimes different software. And who would use bootcamp to fix compatibly problems? Performance would be hindered if you would run software through bootcamp.

False. The computers were properly maintained. Your comment about Cytrix only confirms what I originally thought: you've zero experience with any large for-profit enterprise. Because if you did, you wouldn't ask such a question.

Also telling you totally ignored my points about Window's garbage "registry" system (what a joke), relying on 20-year-old-tech (the horrendous *.dll system to "save space,"), and that's just two of many I could identify. These two issues are reasons enough to make a move to a much more robust platform like OSX Lion.

If you were to give me details about the computers, I would instantly find a flaw due to your lack of knowledge of hardware(because you use a mac), and software, because you have a problem with the .dll system(The most flexible system out there). I know what Cytrix is, and I know students who made better software in a month as a design project.

Who cares what some college kid used or wanted. I'm talking about the real world. I'm talking about professionals, who do real business and have real-world financial decisions to consider. I am among them, I make the purchasing decisions and I sign the checks. I could care less about spending $1k on a PC versus $2k on a Mac -- that kind of money means nothing. You know what matters? Saving time, saving on salaries, saving on contractors, ending downtime which costs us real money.

The college kids have already entered the real world, and they have already used the PC outside of school. By professional, do you mean a professor with a PhD in Mathematics, Computer Science, and Electrical Engineering teaching AI(Machine Learning) at MIT, or a businessman who dropped out of college for his own personal profit? (BTW that professor prefers a PC running Linux) I still think that any problems you have with ANY OS is based on the coder who wrote software. Blame yourself for not listening to user reviews.

Lol. If you think Macs have poor "portability" and "compatability," you've no idea what you're talking about. Because compatability is precisely why we're an all-Mac business.


Elaborate. what lack of freedom? Have you actuallly used a Mac, and by "use" I mean, not just poked at it an an Apple Store and talked trash about it because you couldn't find a start menu?

No, you clearly haven't. There's a LOT of things I do with my Mac, beyond the app store, beyond the Cocoa interface, beyond the pretty icons not he dock menu, that I find work far better than what I'd have to do to make those same things work on Windows.


And, what incompatibility? I've not run into a single thing I can't do on my mac that Windows machines can do. Yeah, fewer FPS games exist on the OS X platform, but if you really want that, you can boot into Windows.

If you want to stick with Windows, fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't spout "lack of freedom" and "incompatibility" as reasons unless you can back it up with specific examples... not just because these are things you've heard OTHER people within your windows-centric clique say.


Examples, please.

Here is one example. User 1 has a mac, and uses Blender for 3D modeling/animation, and User 2 uses Blender on a PC. Both programs are almost entirely the same with just a GUI change. User 1 want to render his huge map on a PC because it was proven that rendering times are faster on a PC with similar specs. With the finished product, User 1 goes back to the mac to review the outcome. Whats this? The mac will not display the rendered version? That would be a portability issue. However, User 2 can do whatever he wants, and Blender will always accept it as long as it was made on a PC.

Now, User 1 has no choice but to wait much longer to render his model. He does not want to do this, so he installs autodesk and imports the Blender model on the PC for faster rendering time. After this, there is no way for the model to be used on a Mac due to compatibility issues. However, User 2 can easily move his model to the mac.
This is also why the better programs are on the PC.

Before I get into this: I used Windows on custom-built PCs and was a rabid windows fanboy until March, 2007. I shared a lot of the same points of view as the OP, and frankly, the me from now would give the me from pre March 2007 a pretty heavy beatdown if that encounter ever were to occur.

Why did I switch to OS X? Vista. I see that Windows 7 is vastly improved and I recommend it heavily to to PC-using friends, but Windows 8 I don't like much.

And I still custom-build PCs. They tend to run linux, usually Ubuntu or OpenSuSE. But I don't use them for enterprise deployments, and would never recommend doing that to anyone.


"Used to be" is a pretty key statement. In the higher ed environment I work for, the sysadmin whose stubborn philosophy of going with only custom-built systems became a "used to be" as well. He was fired because his approach didn't scale and wasn't reliable, among many other reasons (his smug attitude towards "uneducated users" was another).

There isn't a whole lot of customization required for game design and modeling that a commercial vendor can't offer you. Distributed computing is also handled quite competently by commercial vendors who have economies of scale to their advantage and can pass the savings on to a significantly large institution if it means making the sale.

Most colleges I've been to also shun the custom-box approach except for very limited, justified, specific circumstances where research applications demand a very specific hardware approach that can't be obtained commercially. And even then, those projects typically consist of buying commercially-built systems and then modifying them to suit the need.

If you're home brewing a system, it's very easy to tout reliability and then blame yourself for the actual failures. When you buy custom, you're on your own for support. And frankly, any IT department for an organization of decent size isn't going to pay an IT professional to sit with screwdrivers and spare parts bought off newegg replacing failed components, when a PC vendor will express ship you a replacement for far less cost. The IT folks are busy enough deploying, budgeting and handling software and system administration duties.

So, that's my first red flag about you.
When Vista was released I waited a few months until driver issues were fixed, and I never had a problem. I still think that XP was better than Vista during the first few months, but I switched because of DX10. I always keep up with the latest DX for development/modeling/gaming. I said "used to be" because I was offered a much better job at Intel/Havoc as a AI/Physics programmer. I still keep in touch with the professors teaching at the college, and the computer labs were left just like they were, updated with Quadro 6000s just a while ago. The current hardware failure rate is 0% since 2005, and the computers are used almost 10 hours a day. I was given permission to use custom computers and a huge budget, and I would say that we saved over $100,000 if the computers were purchased commercially(and $300,000 if the computers were macs because we received heavy discounts from Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, and ASUS). All DOA hardware was instantly replaced. When we had the parts come in, we spent an entire semester putting the computers together and designing the lab, and that was just free experience for the students(Who received 1 elective credit lol).

This is a poor cop-out from someone who feels they must rabidly defend the perfection of Windows. You don't know his situation. Not everyone problem is caused by the user.

By rights, it's very easy for me to say that the hardware issues you're having with foxconn are your own fault for going homebrew.

Fine, 10% of the problems users have with windows is improper hardware for the software/OS, and a very small % is caused by a glitch inside of the OS. If a lot of users experience the same problem, it gets patched. If a little amount of users experience the glitch and one of them reports it, it gets patched. Foxconn admitted that the motherboards were part of a "bad batch" and gave me a refund. I tested the motherboards in 4 other computers. I was given a very clear error message from the motherboard that stated that there was no CPU or broken chipset, even though there were no bent pins and all of them were making contact. I made sure it was a real problem before I started to blame Foxconn. However, the way you guys think is like this: Why does the OS not do what I want it to do? I want this program to run this way, but it crashes! Windows sucks! The DLL system is broken because the mac version with no DLLs works fine!

If a problem was to occur, I would use common sense and figure out what may have caused the problem. Most of the time it is just that seek time does not keep up with the programs demand for virtual memory, and it crashes. That is why I have 6 SSDs in RAID and 64GB of ram(For my overkill computer).

I can assure you that isn't the case in every college. Perhaps it is in small technical colleges, that require PCs as part of their curriculum to run mandated pieces of software that they no doubt get vendor kickbacks for requiring their use. But in real universities, the platform choice is eft to the student, and I see lots of CS students running linux on laptops and OS X on Macs.

Not to mention, if we go ahead and accept your stereotype of the dumb liberal arts student, then their choice of using a Mac points out an important fact: non-tech-savvy people tend to use and recommend things that don't break down on them. If they use macs, it's because it's easier for them and less of a hassle for them to deal with.

Hanging by your thumbs and using something more obtuse and difficult to work with doesn't make you smarter.

Do you consider MIT, Carnegie Mellon University, Cornell and Stanford small technical colleges? OK. I have taken a few classes in MIT/Cornell and I can say that 90% of students use a PC. Actually, hipsters use macs because they are hipsters. They also wear Beats by Dr. Dre headphones when Sennheisers are the better choice, but lets not get into that.

That hasn't been my experience, at all.

You stopped using the windows PC 5 years ago; when PCs were only 3 times as powerful. Now I can build a custom computer for $1000 that will destroy a $2000 mac in ANY benchmark. Hold on, lets make this fair. A $1000 hackintosh will be on par with a $3000 mac. Do I need to make a quick build on newegg and compare it to a customized $3000 mac, or do you get the point?

I think it's more accurate to say: you see an increasing number of people with these shiny silver laptops and cute looking phones and tablets, all with this iconic fruit-shaped logo on them, and you feel threatened by the fact that they seem to prefer to use them over your preferred platform. You can't possibly understand why anyone would do that, and want to know what their silly, stupid, clearly illogical reasoning is for it.

On the other hand, most people in IT who tend to stay it for any appreciable period and gain any of level of respect understand that PCs aren't for everyone, and neither are Macs, and neither are linux boxes. The needs of the user need to be understood, and there is no reason to put down someone's use of a platform different from your preference, so long as it works out for them.

Bottom line: Enjoy your PC. I'm happy using my Mac.

Why would someone pay more for a computer that preforms the same way as a computer that costs $1000-$3000 less? Most people in IT also know more than an average mac user.
Name one thing that the mac OS does better than a Windows OS, and name one more thing that Mac hardware does better than PC hardware.

Actually, I've used Asus to build some custom PCs. They have their good components that will run forever, and really bad components that have horribly high failure rates.

All in all, they're as good as foxconn in the homebrew market. And like foxconn, they probably reserve their higher quality components for commercial, large scale hardware vendors who will pay more for that higher quality.

Ok, still doesn't change the fact that macs are overpriced and apple makes a 70% profit from each unit sold.

I seriously doubt that if you spell it "lunix" (which you have twice already), you're ever actually used "lunix."

I always typed it the wrong way because I always thought of Unix when I was learning Unix system programming a few years ago. I don't care much about spelling as long as you can use COMMON SENSE to understand what I am talking about.

As a matter of fact, you can. And many do just that. But you'd know this, if you actually used a Mac and were truly informed enough to validly criticize it.

By the way, if you've ever printed a document using a printer on "lunix," you can thank Apple for the print engine, and for most of the drivers.

Ok find me an optimized driver for the latest workstation/gaming video cards in quad SLI/Crossfire. Whats that? Lunix has them and Mac does not? Not big surprise. Thank you apple for creating the GUI, windows would not survive without it. I am forever in your debt.
 
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bhonder

macrumors member
Feb 24, 2010
37
5
Italy
I am going to buy a new desktop(and laptop) computer soon, and I was thinking about buying a mac. However, I can't find any way to justify its higher price and lower quality compared to a self built PC. What would be one laptop/desktop mac that would be able to do the things below and outperform the PC (lunix/windows)? Please provide benchmarks.

Uses:
Gaming
3D modeling
Java programming
Video/Photo editing
Multitasking

If you would like to buy a laptop, the answer would be simple: get a Mac.

Since you tell that you are going to build your own PC, the laptop is out of discussion so:

1) If you use it to play more then work, then build your own with good gpu, processor, memory and cooling system.

2) If your main concern is java programming, why don't give a try to a Mac. At least you should have a double/triple boot capable system with Mac, Linux and OSx.

3) If you do 3d modeling, do the softwares you are used to have an OSx version too? If yes, go to a Mac.

4) If you do photo/video/music job, Is there something else than a Mac? Really? Strange...

Four out of three answers lead to a Mac. If you already own a good monitor, get a Mac mini with dicrete graphic card. If you don't, then go for an iMac. If you are a professional buy a mac pro.

At less than the budget of an high-end home built computer you should also consider an iMac or Mac-mini/iPad combo. This is really a smart choice.

If you do light gaming you should think about going for a laptop, and MacBook pro are really good ones. Stylish, light, confortable and powerful computers.

OSx It's not a stripped down unix, but almost one of the few that respect all unix standards. You may wider your knowledge and be even more competitive in your future job. If you use it as a general user it makes easier a lot of tasks, leaving you the time for your real work.
 

hafr

macrumors 68030
Sep 21, 2011
2,743
9
Performance would be hindered if you would run software through bootcamp.
Isn't Bootcamp just a software that makes it possible to install Windows on a Mac, as in not on a virtual machine? I thought running Windows on a mac through Bootcamp would be exactly the same as running Windows on a self built computer with the same specs.

Mac hardware vs. PC hardware
Are you talking about the specific setups that Apple offer vs. what you can build yourself, or do Apple have their own hardware? I thought the switch to Intel meant the design is now the only real difference...
 

Vantage Point

macrumors 65816
Mar 1, 2010
1,169
1
New Jersey
I switched over two years ago but not before wrestling with the decision for several months. I was far from a computer expert and if anything was a bit behind the curve in terms of understand all things my PC OS could do - and I hated depending on those that could help. With a Mac the resources for help are everywhere so that was a factor. Mac was easier to learn (I was still on XP OS). I liked the idea of not having virus or spyware or bloatware. I loved the trackpad. I hated the 16:9 format PC's were sporting and loved the 16:10 golden ratio (I scroll up/down not left right) but I also fear apple will jump into that horrible ratio in the future.

What helped justify the investment (better word than 'cost') is that Mac's are well built and hold their value and are easy to sell. Quality costs more - same with cars. I love my Mac so not regrets.

Expensive but worth it is a question the individual must answer for himself. It begins by going out and playing with one.

Also, one thing I noticed when considering was the reviews from people the made the move. The vast majority stated "why did I wait so long?". I became one of those people.
 

rydewnd2

macrumors regular
Apr 3, 2007
176
11
New York City
Apple products cost more - fact
Apple products resell for more - fact

Yes you can build your home pc for $500. But when it comes to reselling, nobody pays anything for used pcs. Macs (and other Apple products) hold their value incredibly well.
 

Liquinn

Suspended
Apr 10, 2011
3,016
57
Apple products cost more - fact
Apple products resell for more - fact

Yes you can build your home pc for $500. But when it comes to reselling, nobody pays anything for used pcs. Macs (and other Apple products) hold their value incredibly well.
What if you never sell old hardware on? The resale value then basically doesn't matter.
 

NastyTrorr

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 21, 2012
23
0
Isn't Bootcamp just a software that makes it possible to install Windows on a Mac, as in not on a virtual machine? I thought running Windows on a mac through Bootcamp would be exactly the same as running Windows on a self built computer with the same specs.


Are you talking about the specific setups that Apple offer vs. what you can build yourself, or do Apple have their own hardware? I thought the switch to Intel meant the design is now the only real difference...
Yes, it allows you to install windows on a mac. The performance issue comes in when you try to run a windows program on that mac. A PC would preform better compared to a mac for the same price. With hardware I mean Apple Foxconn vs ASUS Intel.


Apple products cost more - fact
Apple products resell for more - fact

Yes you can build your home pc for $500. But when it comes to reselling, nobody pays anything for used pcs. Macs (and other Apple products) hold their value incredibly well.
Who says you have to say that the PC was used? You can actually make a profit by selling used machines for more than the price of the individual parts together and less than the price of a pre-built computer from Dell. Your statement also proves that people buy macs for the design, not for the quality/performance. AKA hipsters.
 

Geekbabe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2011
782
1,076
My husband & I have built & supported countless PC's over the years. I become quite curious with the MacBook Air, made several trips to the store to look at & play with them. At the end of Nov my husband purchased a 13 inch MBA for me as an Xmas gift, predicting that I would soon be looking to sell it & return to using the PC exclusively.

I decided going in that I was going to go all in, learn about the OS & find Mac software to replace my Windows applications.I invested in a couple of decent books to help me learn my way around OS X Lion & find myself amazed with how well mannered this OS is, how economically it uses system resources.

Yes, I still have a Windows desktop that gets used occasionally but 4 months later & I'm still delighted with my MBA. There is something delightful about opening the lid of a notebook & knowing that it is simply going to just work.

I don't "hate" the PC now, nor am I a rabid Apple fan girl but feel that one cannot consider themselves a true tech enthusiast if you are not willing to explore various platforms in depth. Apple makes a mighty fine computer, I'm just sorry I waited so long to find this out for myself.
 

Vantage Point

macrumors 65816
Mar 1, 2010
1,169
1
New Jersey
Your statement also proves that people buy macs for the design, not for the quality/performance.

No, that is an insult to users everywhere. We buy for both reasons. Some people will incline more to one than the other but they go together - looks along don't work over time. Same with dating. I want to be both attracted to my girlfriend and have her be a good friend, (if possible, my best friend).

The best thing is to spend time with one. Asking the opinion of Mac users on a Mac forum will only get you so far. Apple actually knows it takes the average PC user 3 - 5 visits to get converted - I learned this from a manager at Apple.
 

mcman77

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2011
522
1
they will both get the job done for general use, it all depends on personal preference.

Windows 7 is not bad, actually its pretty good. Get what you want.
 

hafr

macrumors 68030
Sep 21, 2011
2,743
9
Yes, it allows you to install windows on a mac. The performance issue comes in when you try to run a windows program on that mac. A PC would preform better compared to a mac for the same price.
I have no clue at what price level the computers that you guys are talking about are, but I know that when I was looking for a 13-14" laptop about six months ago, the base MBP 13" was the cheapest option out there. But looking at 15", Apple all of a sudden became one of the most expensive options... So it's not always true that Apple is more expensive than other brands for the same specs.
 

Liquinn

Suspended
Apr 10, 2011
3,016
57
Your statement also proves that people buy macs for the design, not for the quality/performance.

No, that is an insult to users everywhere. We buy for both reasons. Some people will incline more to one than the other but they go together - looks along don't work over time. Same with dating. I want to be both attracted to my girlfriend and have her be a good friend, (if possible, my best friend).

The best thing is to spend time with one. Asking the opinion of Mac users on a Mac forum will only get you so far. Apple actually knows it takes the average PC user 3 - 5 visits to get converted - I learned this from a manager at Apple.
I see. What do you mean by get converted?

I prefer Macs and am willing to pay the premium for OSX.
 

Geekbabe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2011
782
1,076
I have no clue at what price level the computers that you guys are talking about are, but I know that when I was looking for a 13-14" laptop about six months ago, the base MBP 13" was the cheapest option out there. But looking at 15", Apple all of a sudden became one of the most expensive options... So it's not always true that Apple is more expensive than other brands for the same specs.

I was initially considering an Ultra Book, my husband got me a refurbished 13 inch MBA from the Apple store for about $100 cheaper than the other system I was considering.
 

hafr

macrumors 68030
Sep 21, 2011
2,743
9
Your statement also proves that people buy macs for the design, not for the quality/performance. AKA hipsters.

I sense that you use the word "hipster" in a derogatory sense here, and that in some way would be negative to weigh in design as a factor when making a purchase.

This makes me curious. What kind of car do you drive? What's in your closet? What kind of furnitures do you have in your house and so on? I mean, I would absolutely love to see what it looks like when a person completely omits design as a decisive factor in any and all purchases.
 

NastyTrorr

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 21, 2012
23
0
Lets compare a Digital Storm x17 Laptop to a MacBook Pro 17-inch.
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/laptoploadx17.asp?id=568682

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD311LL/A?

The first difference is the price(The PC is $750 less than the mac) , but that could mean that the PC has less powerful parts. I will be configuring both computers to be the same.

CPU: Both computers have similar 2.4 GHz CPUs from intel. However, to upgrade to 2.5 you pay $250 on the mac, and only $200 on the PC. The PC has more options, and it is cheaper for the SAME CPU.

Memory: The Mac only has 4GB of 1333MHz ram, while the PC has 16GB DDR3 1600MHz straight out of the box. It would cost $200 to upgrade the mac to 8GB, and you would save $85 to downgrade to 8GB on the PC. An upgrade to 32GB would cost $266, meaning that 16GB costs $266 on the PC, and 4GB costs $200 on the mac, or 16GB costs $800, which isn't an option because the mac lacks the space for that much ram. So much for the design. Also, the 8GB option on the PC is 1600MHz, which is faster than the mac's 8GB option. PC wins

Hard drive: The PC comes with a 500GB 7200RPM hard drive, while the mac comes with a 750GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm. It only costs $25 to upgrade to a 750GB 7200RPM Hard drive on the PC, but it costs $50 to upgrade to a 750GB 7200RPM on the mac. Lets say we want a SSD. It is not possible to compare the 2 because of the different sizes, but the mac wins on the Price Per GB at the 128GB SSDs. Also, keep in mind that the Intel SSDs are one of the best ones out there, and the mac SSDs are probably low quality. The Intel SSDs are also much faster because of (SATA 6Gb/s) connections. I will be giving both 750GB 7200RPM Hard drives. Tie for the sake of keeping the specs as even as possible.

Display: The mac has a higher resolution display, but the PC has a larger screen?. Mac wins, because I consider Resolution to be more important.

Optical Drive: Almost the same. The PC has more options, including a choice for a blu ray player. PC wins for choices.

Video Card: The PC has a GTX 560M 1.5GB video card, and a mac has a HD 6770M with 1GB. Not only is the 560M better in almost every benchmark, but it also has more memory. PC wins.

OS: The mac is running OS X Lion. The PC is running Windows 7. Making a Hackintosh would be cheaper on the PC instead of installing Windows on the mac. PC wins If you prefer using OSX. How sad.

Warranty Plan: Everything is included with the PC, but it costs $350 more to have it on a mac.

The PC also has:
Life-time labor free upgrades for component upgrades purchased directly from Digital Storm while the mac only gives you 3 years for $350. Digital Storm parts are MUCH CHEAPER than mac parts.

Hand built by the industry's most skilled technicians using premium grade components, which means that is NOT MADE BY FOXCONN AND NOT ASSEMBLED BY ASIANS IN A SWEATSHOP.

Strict 72-hour stress-testing and benchmarking to ensure rock solid stable operation. Good luck doing that on a mac.

Analyzed by an extremely dedicated production manager that is obsessed with perfection. All Apple is obsessed with is money.

Lets check the total price... $1684 for the PC, and $3,098.00 for the Mac. Also, the PC won in almost every category, except the display. Should I compare the Mac Pro to the Digital Storm Syndicate?
 

Geekbabe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2011
782
1,076
NastyTrorr,

If you consider the PC to be a better value than an Apple computer then why don't you simply buy or build a PC? Why come to a forum devoted to those who enjoy Apple products to argue with it's members?
 

NastyTrorr

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 21, 2012
23
0
NastyTrorr,

If you consider the PC to be a better value than an Apple computer then why don't you simply buy or build a PC? Why come to a forum devoted to those who enjoy Apple products to argue with it's members?
I want to know why you think that Apple products are better.
 
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