MacWorld Expo!

[vniow]

Originally posted by eallison
He said they want to make page rendering so blisteringly fast that there's no need for tabs.

I have to disagree with their logic on that.

The resason I use tabs is not because page rendering is slow, it's because it's a helluva lot more convienent.

I'd much rather have one window open with 10 tabs rather than 10 windows open with one tab each, it's much easier to navigate with tabs than it is with seperate windows.

I tried Opera back when if first came out with tabs and the main reason why I used it more than IE at the time was not because it was faster (it wasn't) but because of tabs.

Like I said before, it's so much easier and more productive to manage a group of tabs tather than a group of seperate windows, especially when you have little screen space to begin with.

 

[Tariq]

All this "old" tech. is so confusing!

I was refering to the reply earlier which mentioned that the G4 is obsolete. Of course its not or it would not still be in use BUT it is certainly "old" tech. and within a years time everyone with a G3 or G4 can start counting the days when they will be forced into upgrading to a machine with the new IBM chip for compatibility reasons. Sort of a scarry time to invest in Apple hardware right now UNLESS you have to. just my 2 cents worth though. Tariq

 

[DakotaGuy]

Re: All this "old" tech. is so confusing!

Originally posted by Tariq
I was refering to the reply earlier which mentioned that the G4 is obsolete. Of course its not or it would not still be in use BUT it is certainly "old" tech. and within a years time everyone with a G3 or G4 can start counting the days when they will be forced into upgrading to a machine with the new IBM chip for compatibility reasons. Sort of a scarry time to invest in Apple hardware right now UNLESS you have to. just my 2 cents worth though. Tariq

Huh...I thought that was one advantage of the PowerPC 970. Compatibility will be good with the PowerPC G3 and G4. My guess is the OS will be designed for 32 and 64bit PowerPC processors well into the future. There will become a point when you can no longer upgrade the software on a G3 or G4 machine, but that would be well into the future. There will also be a point when you will no longer be able to run Windows on a Celeron, PII, PIII or even PIV. I don't understand your point.

 

[giovanni]

"... the year of the notebook" ahah

well of course ! Apple has no choice since it ain't got any hardware for desktops, so it is focusing on the portables where factors other than processing speed are also very important. SJ is simply telling us not to expect any serious change in the powermacs. So, next year and next year only if all goes well, he'll be able to say this is the year of the desktop. Like someone noted earlier, we have to really hope that the new laptops will do very well, so Apple will be able to offset tumbling sales on the desktop side. However it should be also noted that a number of professionals will be lost to the dark side. Not so good.

Could someone tell me that I am wrong - and it seems so obvious to me.

 

[bentmywookie]

12" powerbook not so great?

After the keynote I was all high on the 12" powerbook, but now that I think about it and go through some of the posts, I think it is really not that great.

Cache is just too damn important to cut back on it for this model, especially giving it less than the ibook!! Some people have posted that they think the iBook will be faster in the end, I am in total agreement there. The iBook's G3 smokes in non-altivec, and the 512kb cache is really going to help it in competing with the 12" in altivec. What a bummer - and I think not putting a 32mb mobility 9000 (or at least a 7500) was a bad choice. So this is the G4 iBook, but a little more crippled than I would have liked. I love the inclusion of bluetooth and 802.11g and the fact that you can get a superdrive, but do those outweigh the (probably) performance loss to the iBook because of the cache? I was ready to go order one right away after the keynote, but now I am going to wait for some reviews or benchmarks that compare it to the iBook 800. (and why no firewire 800??)

As for the 17 incher, I think it's a great computer. A little too big for my preference, but otherwise, from the firewire 800 to bluetooth to keyboard illumination to airport extreme - it is just hot. Why in friggin hell did apple not use the Mobility 9000 though, I don't remember whether it was extremetech or anandtech or whomever that tested the 420go, 440go, 460go, mob 7500 and 9000 - but I believe the 9000 came out above all of them except for the 460 plus it had lower power consumption. Stupid choice in my opinion but oh well. Anyone have ideas why they would have done that?

But to end on a good note, I must say between the integration of the iApps, Safari and Keynote, I was VERY impressed. The keynote just proved to me that Apple is wonderful when it comes to software. This area of the keynote was the best part for me.

I'm sure apple's just trying to do the best it can with the crappy hand it's been dealt hardware wise, but unless tests prove otherwise, that 12" powerbook does not really seem worth it to me - I would have gladly ponyed up the dough for a 1mb L3 cache.


Just curious if anyone has any info on this - are mobile versions of the 970s expected to come around the same time as the desktop versions? It would suck to have to have only G4 laptops to look forward to for the next year and a half or so.

 

[lmalave]

Originally posted by edvniow
Does anyone know if the old Airport slot can handle the amount of bandwith needed for Airport Extreme?

The slot can definitely handle it (it's basically just a modified PCMCIA slot, right?), but I've read a couple posts that the machine has to be "Airport Extreme Ready" for it to work. I don't get it myself...is the antenna different?

Oh well, it's not like I'd really have any use for 54Mbps anyway. The only situation that I can think of where that would even be useful would be to copy massive files between machines wirelessly.

 

[dabirdwell]

With an ADC Discount...

It costs about $250 more to get the 12" PowerBook than the 12" iBook, if you get Max RAM, Max hard drive, Airport card and Base station.

Worth it?

 

[matttichenor]

Foot in Mouth

Good for you... Most forumers wouldm't admit to this... it takes a big man.


And realize I was right there with you during those crappy Keynotes of past.


m


"OK Steve. You got me. I'm currently enjoying this delicious foot in my mouth. I'm the guy who said this Macworld would be boring. I was wrong. The iApps are great- iDVD is sweet- Keynote is sweet- Safari is sweet- Final Cut Express is sweet- Firewire 800 is sweet- Airport Extreme is sweet- 17 powerbook is super sweet- 12 powerbook is good- All told, a very good Macworld. But I was there Steve when Jon Rubenstein rambled on for 30 minutes about pipeline stages. I witnessed firsthand "ten developers for OSX". I felt the sting of .Mac in person. I was hurt Steve. I actually cried. But not today- today you made me believe in the magic again. Today you reminded me why I use a Mac- it's not because they're the fastest, or the cheapest- they're just the best. And Apple really does do things for this industry that Dell, and Gateway, and Microsoft can never do- even with their piles and piles of money, thoughtful computer design and function escape them. So, I'm sorry Steve. Nice job."

 

[Tariq]

Sorry for the confusion. From what I have read about the new IBM chip, you are correct about backward compatibility But actual useability is another thing all together. My 1999 Lombard PowerBook(which I love and has served me well) is "compatible" with OS X but hardly useable as an OS 9 replacement on that machine for instance(mostly due to sloww graphics when Apple refused to offer Graphics Acceleration for my macnine in OS X.) But, four years is a long time in computer years so I can't complain too much. My fear in buying a new machine today would be that wihin one year this same sort of scenario could play out with New OS X updates only taking "full" advantage of the IBM 64 bit with the "compatible" older G4 machines running at half speed. Given that the G4 is really in its twilight year, I think this scenario is very possible.

 

[cathjock]

wow is all i can say

i am using safari right now: it is much faster than internet explorer

i am on a rather slow t1 network at school- with internet explorer, it takes 25 seconds to load the New York Times website- with safari, it only takes 11 seconds!

safari starts up in about one second (tibook 500mhz) and ie takes about 5 seconds

i also get much faster download rates (15-30kbps compared to 1-10kbps)

the only downside: when i tried to watch a news clip on msnbc.com (which uses windows media player), the viewing window opened as normal but i recieved and error message saying that this file type is not supported (the message did go on to say that the file could be opened with the windows media player program, and when i clicked "ok", wmp opened up and the video played as normal). even though the video played in the end, it would be nice if apple would support the wmp plug-in. i've reported this lack of support to apple using the clever 'bug button'- i'll have to see what they say

 

[iShater]

Re: 12" powerbook not so great?

Originally posted by bentmywookie
After the keynote I was all high on the 12" powerbook, but now that I think about it and go through some of the posts, I think it is really not that great.

Look at the bright side, it is still at least $200 cheaper than the Dell x200 (which is an ultraportable, so you have to add in the the base price), has better components, cheaper despite Dells $150 instant rebate (temp I guess), and can't be called "slower" since the x200 has a PIII 800Mhz chip.

I say we have a decent contender for the top spot!

[EDIT] Personally I was hoping for a super-slim laptop this MW, .5" and a docking station [/EDIT]

 

[pyrotoaster]

I don't know who said the G4 was obsolete, but I didn't. I didn't even say the G3 was obsolete, yet.

The G4 is middle-aged, within the next year we'll see the PowerPC 970 replace it in Powermacs.
The G3 is old, within the next year and a half, I think we'll see Apple phase the processor out all together (maybe they'll still sell cheap old CRT iMacs). That's when the G3 will be (in my mind) obsolete.

The G4 has years of life ahead of it, as it will probably stick in iBooks for quite a while (kinda like the way the G3 has).

BTW, I'm really excited by the 12" Powerbook. It is way better than the iBook (that's my opinion, you're more than welcome to disagree). It's great to see Apple making a sub-notebook again.

 

[bentmywookie]

Re: Re: 12" powerbook not so great?

Originally posted by iShater


Look at the bright side, it is still at least $200 cheaper than the Dell x200 (which is an ultraportable, so you have to add in the the base price), has better components, cheaper despite Dells $150 instant rebate (temp I guess), and can't be called "slower" since the x200 has a PIII 800Mhz chip.

I say we have a decent contender for the top spot!

[EDIT] Personally I was hoping for a super-slim laptop this MW, .5" and a docking station [/EDIT]

That is a very good point that I forgot to think of. This is a serious ultraportable contender (albeit it's over 4 lbs). I personally don't mind width. For me, weight is more important and it is definitely excellent at 4.5 lbs w/combo or dvd burner.

I guess I feel a little better now. I'm still going to wish upon wish for firewire 800, 1 mb L3, and a better graphics card in the next revision.

 

[matttichenor]

Merrill Lynch & Apple

I can't believe this post:

"The 12 inch PB is great, but it will cannibalize iBook sales. The 17" PB is incredible ... but it is expensive and a product better suited to the desktop ... therefore it will compete with the 17 inch iMac."

If they sell a 12" G4 @ $1800 instead of any of the iBooks then they have created more revenue. If they sell the $3300 Powerbook G4 instead of a $2000 iMac then they make more money. That's the whole point.

Apple has done a nice job here of offering a decent ladder of products... as you pay more you get more.

The only place where there is debate is regarding the unrevised G3 iBook compared to the new 12" G4 Powerbook, but we will have to wait and see the benchmarks. Most likely it will be a draw and the extra cost can be racked up to aesthetics, extra features and boasting rights. Perhaps Apple went with the Nvidia Chip because it could have better Quartz Extreme Results. Who Knows?

I would say that the only problem area for Apple right now is in their struggling PowerMac sector. It just does not look good to have your flagship machine sitting at 1.25GHZ, Megahertz Myth or Not. I mean it's great that they are Dual Processors and everything, but how many customers realise that when they look at the specs, or really understand what that means. Here's hoping IBM can rescue this segment, and fast.

m

 

[noverflow]

Airport extreme

APE (airport extreme) does require a computer with an APE port... read apples apge.. it is a totally different looking card.

System Requirements:

* Requires AirPort Extreme ready system. AirPort Extreme ready systems are those with mini-PCI support form factor. AirPort Extreme cards cannot be used in older AirPort card bays (PCMCIA form factor slot).

 

[erockerboy]

Re: Merrill Lynch & Apple

Originally posted by matttichenor
I would say that the only problem area for Apple right now is in their struggling PowerMac sector. It just does not look good to have your flagship machine sitting at 1.25GHZ, Megahertz Myth or Not. I mean it's great that they are Dual Processors and everything, but how many customers realise that when they look at the specs, or really understand what that means. Here's hoping IBM can rescue this segment, and fast.

m

AMEN!!! Agree 100%.

 

[matttichenor]

Great Keynote, Best in Recent Memory

I would also like to quickly add my pleasure with today's announcements. Here's to Apple!!

Nice work with the iApps (iLife). Good pricing scheme too... makes sense, a lot of people would like to have the CD & Box and all that. This way Apple can give them that without losing money. Meanwhile the rest of us with High Speed can download for free, or, if we need iDVD (which looks great) we can pay the $50. I think a lot of us breathed a collective sigh of relief with this one.

Safari looks good as a Beta, Final Cut Express is a great idea, Keynote is cool, the 17" Powerbook is Awesome, and I like the little 12" Powerbook. I think it will probably sell well... I think some people underestimate the difference a form factor can make.

What we didn't get...

I would love to have seen iTunes 4 and iPod software updates with AAC along with more .Mac integration with the iApps. Was this overlooked, I can't believe Apple would play up this whole integration theme and then not integrate better with .Mac, seeing as it was such a huge deal this past year what with the questionable upgrade fees.

Furthermore... adding an Address Book to .Mac does not cut it for new features @ $100/year software... it needs to get better, it's an awesome set of tools, but it needs to get better if Apple wants new subscribers and to keep the current ones.

One last thing...


I was dying for an Apple Tablet... I think it would be such a great new device... imagine all of the things Apple would incorporate into it... oh well... one can dream can't he.

Thanks for reading my rant.


m

 

[lmalave]

Re: Airport extreme

Originally posted by noverflow
APE (airport extreme) does require a computer with an APE port... read apples apge.. it is a totally different looking card.

System Requirements:

* Requires AirPort Extreme ready system. AirPort Extreme ready systems are those with mini-PCI support form factor. AirPort Extreme cards cannot be used in older AirPort card bays (PCMCIA form factor slot).

Ah, so there's still hope! I predict they will eventually release a PCMCIA form factor Airport Extreme Card. I was thinking there might be some technical reason why they couldn't (antenna had to be different or something). So really this is nothing more than a case of Apple creating incentive for people to buy the new machines...

 

[rhfactor]

Hello MacWorld ! Goodbye Desktops?

(I'm late to this thread... perhaps everything I have to say has been covered already...)

"Year of the Notebook"

"We want to replace Desktops with Laptops" is a fantastic goal, and combined with Airport Extreme wireless, Apple's got all the right stuff to redefine (again!) the way we use computing machines. For G4-MDD users, I think we'd also like this to be "The Year of Quiet Cooling" ...

With Apple's core business shifting from Media Pros to Digital Lifestyle Consumers (iLife, FCP Express), Wireless Portability (new Powerbooks, AirPort Extreme), and Business/Marketing Execs (Keynote -- looks like a fantastic new app that will blow away PowerPoint), are they saying goodbye to high-end desktop users?

We're looking now at the equivalent of 1984 with the intro of the first Mac ... It predicted and set the stage for what is now a way of life, a personal computer totally intergrated into work & home.

Yes, it will be truly exciting to take the 17" Powerbook on the road to edit a feature film, or mix a new CD on a mountain top. The question remains: For those Pros who need the expandability of extra hard drives, multiple cards, driving multiple displays, a desktop machine is still an important part of the way we work.

The current state of the art in Desktop machines on the Apple
Platform is the G4-MDD ... and there were no announcements at MacWorld SF that any new desktops are on their way -- though no doubt they are also in serious development, grappling probably with issues of which chip to push the speed revolution, as well as how to keep the faster machines quiet.

The question for me is: As Apple's focus moves away from the Pro user towards the Digital Lifestyle user and the Business user, will the G4 noise & audio hum issues get addressed? This may be the major fork in the road for us Pro Users who are relying on the G4-MDD for our livelihoods.

I applaud Apple's continued innovation -- it is remarkable! Let's get the G4's performing in such a way that they fulfill the awesome beauty of their external product design. For us G4-MDD pro users, I think we'd like for this to also be "The Year of Quiet Cooling" -- clearly the capability is there today.

As much as I am disappointed that the G4 issue was not discussed at beginning when Steve ran down some "Updates" on various issues, I don't find it strange at all that the G4 was not to be seen:

MacWorld, like any business hoopla, is about marketing a message. It seems clear to me by the content of the Keynote Message that Apple has made a strategic shift in where it puts its eggs.

I am not a businessman so i don't know the financial merits of business strategies. But it was clear to me this was not a fluke. Emphasis placed on more and more Apple Retail Stores (consumer friendly hands-on places), the effectiveness (so they say) of the Switch campaign (which is basically selling the idea "it just works" -- less hassles), on portability and on mass market software products that will lure users to the Mac OS platform.

At first glance it seems really smart... From what I hear, the profit
margins in desktop PCs as minimal, and Dell is increasingly owning that market. Even in all of our discussions at Apple's "G4 Usage" forum and at "G4noise.com", there is much talk of "where to next re SPEED and chips?" -- since Apple has hit
the end of the road with Motorola processors. So it seems like the marketing and product development people essentially said "screw trying to keep up with the desktop joneses, let's just make an all-out grab for the consumers who aren't techies, but love music, home movies, and sharing photos. They are going after the people "just living their lives" -- not professional high-end users.

Will this work? Ask a businessman. I don't know.

It seems smart given they are in a tough bind with the processor speed thing, and maybe they need 6 more months or a whole
year to really get the G5 out, with maybe an Intel processor... but
those are not just tech issues; those are business negotiation and licensing issues. So focus on the easy to use consumer products, and push push push the apps that ONLY RUN ON OS X.

But back to Desktops: I don't think they can walk away from the high-end media professional market. i think it's suicide. Even though one can edit a feature film using Final Cut Pro using their new 17" Powerbook on a plane or on a mountain top, you can't render complex effects and manage huge hard drives of data just with the laptop. A composer/musician could mix a track on a laptop, but running a whole production studio with one? Not likely.

So, RISK FACTOR.. The overall message from Steve Jobs was: (like Wizard of Oz) "Pay no attention to the Pro machines that we are not even displaying here. I want to show you all these things here which is our new aggressive growth strategy"... But by ignoring the pro crowd, is the presumption that loyalty is such that "well, they still can't get the Apps they want on Windows, so we've got them locked in to Mac for a year of so more, and by then maybe we'll have a whole new generation of processors" etc.


Richard Hoefer
Filmaker/Designer
San Francisco, CA
http://www.G4noise.com
dv@on101.com

 

[Doctor Q]

Has anyone tested Applescripting Safari yet? Or written some new scripts for it?

(Hmmm. How 'bout one that analyzes comments in a MacRumors forum and submits a thoughtful and well-stated reply automatically? Think of the time we'd all save!)

 

[matttichenor]

Ignore the Pro Users?

I wouldn't get too carried away with the feeling of Pro users being ignored by Apple. I believe that MWSF has never been a place where the pro line is the focus, and furthermore, a lot of "Pro Users" will be anxious to get their hands on this new laptop. In fact, in many cases it will be only the pro users who can justify purchasing a $3300 computer.

Furthermore, these laptops, while definately incapable of true internal expandability, offer a great deal of external expansion. It is becoming more an more apparant that one of these supercharged powerbooks can serve the needs of many pro users. I too am a proffesional filmmaker, and I can see great value not just in the portability of these new products, but also in their versatility.

Through the use of Firewire, and now Firewire 800, you will see more and more Porffesional add ons developed for these machines. High speed, high capacity, low cost storage and Disk Arrays, High speed, high bandwidth I/O for Digital Audio & Video. Just because these machines are laptops does not mean that they will not perform well as a desktop system. When you are done in the studio, pack it up and hit the road. Capture & Cut on set, streamline your process, use the capabilites as an advantage, that's the beauty of this new laptop, it's versatility.

I agree with you, Apple needs to innovate to keep their Pro Powermacs competiitve and worthy of their price tags. Hopefully they will receive some help soon from IBM, or as you suggest Intel or AMD. These Powermacs need to become workhorses, capable of crunching numbers far beyond their current standards. Apple needs to design Powermacs that make even the staunchist of Windows Power Users green with envy.

I am positive we will see upgrades and revisions to the pro line by the end of February. Speed bumps, Firewire 800, Airport Extreme & who knows what else. FCP 4, DVD Studio 2, Cinema Tools 2?

But all this said, we cannot criticize the company for creating other tools that blow the socks off the competition. Perhaps you take Mr. Jobs' comments to close to heart... while it may be the year that the laptop grows up, that doesn't necessarily mean Apple will abandon the idea of creating powerful Pro Desktops capable of any pro application you can throw at it.

Remember also, Apple has just recently introduced the XServe, a whole new powerful hardware category which is aimed squarely at the Proffesional / Business marketplace. This new device has received such rave reviews that I find it hard to complain of their focus on Business and the Pro Market.

I do hope they remedy the MMD Noise issue, and I do hope they come storming back in the desktop market, sooner rather than later. But until that happens I am happy that they are also producing wonderful new devices, for the pro and the consumer, that continue to set the benchmark for computers everywhere.


m

 

[jshep]

Safari!!!

Safari,
Thanks Steve, now I can finally say I'm Microsoft Free!!!!

I'm so happy to stick IE in the trash where it belongs.....

Thanks Again

 

[spikeovsky]

nostalgia

Originally posted by Tom800
Hey I remember lusting after a hard disk when I ran everything from two floppies on an Atari way back when! Then when i got one - 120Mb, it was the ****!

Hard Drive??? 120 Megs??? Luxury!
Now *I* remember when I got my external double-density floppy drive for my Mac Plus - before that, if a program couldn't fit on one diskette, it would take ages to load - I had sit there waiting for it to read data off one diskette, then eject it and ask me for the second one, then eject that and ask me for the first and so on. I can still remember sound of a Mac Plus ejecting a diskette - it haunts my dreams.

This is sounding rather like "Four Yorkshiremen", though the guy with the 8088 beats me - my first computer was the Plus, may it rest in peace. I got it confused with a 220 volt model I got when my school was throwing it out, and plugged it into a 220 Volt outlet. It ran fine for about 5 minutes until I heard a bang and smoke started pouring out the sides. That was a bad day .

-spikeovksy

 

[BWhaler]

12 inch PowerBook--Hands-on Feedback

I spent a good hour today at the Expo playing with the new 12 inch PowerBook.

I understand some of the comments that have been made after folks looked at the specs, but let me reassure you, this machine rocks. There were negligable latency and delays.

After kicking its tires pretty hard, I am seriously considering buying one. Unless you need a PCMCIA card, etc., I wouldn't sweat the specs.


--BWhaler

 

[Sedulous]

So far I've been thrilled with all of the new items introduced at MWSF.

Safari has worked flawlessly and unlike a few other poeople, I've had great experiences with it so far (including secured sites). One other thing no one has noted is that (I might have missed it... this is a huge string), yes, the name is cool... what do you see on a safari? Jaguars, maybe Panthers? I'm curious if Apple is switching from the iApp naming scheme to something related to their OS nicknmes.

The *only* two concerns I have about the new PB design is that the hinge on it is much like the iBook. Some of the iBooks I've used squeak and that gives a really "cheap" feel to it. Has anyone had the chance to check this out on the new AlBook? The other concern is that with the new deisgn, the ports are more exposed... and debris can get into these ports. They are certainly more accessible. They could have been concealed much the same way the Ti design did.