Macworld San Francisco 2007 Rumor Wrapup: Winners and Losers

[GregA]

I am hoping steve will introduce ... Full screen TRUE video iPod (with 100GB or 80GB HDDs) with a multi touch interface. (it will not have the same OS as the iPhone as not to cannibalize iPhone sales)

No - it needs the same OS as the iPhone. Having a multi-touch interface and then a different OS would be a waste.

Otherwise I agree - it'd be nice to see a HD based video iPod.

How about a iPod which basically swaps the Phone component for a HD? Keep the "Internet Connectivity Device" by using wifi, or even bluetooth via your regular old cell phone.

Or an iPhone which dumps the cell phone for a VoIP phone? That way there's no deal-making with the cell networks (but... no phone when on the move either)

 

[GregA]

Airport Extreme Base Station - About time to see 802.11n especially since we are supposed to be sending high def video to our TV. No gigabit ethernet port, so it's slower than the 802.11n...

Yeah, the "no gigabit" seemed a bit weak.

"talk on the net" has it that if you put a 802.11g device on the 802.11n network, it slows down the whole 802.11n network???? Not sure how valid that is.

I had thoughts of connecting the iMac with gigabit, an AppleTV and MBP with 802.11n, and a Powerbook with 802.11g. But if it's all still at 100Mbit & 802.11g speeds, then may as well keep the old Airport Extreme.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong

 

[eRondeau]

Not so great after all...

Now there's an idea. Perhaps the whispers about a new iMac form factor could also refer to a multi-touch screen. A 30" multi-touch iMac would rock! And the improvement would be even more significant for notebooks, upgrading from a small trackpad to a full screen for the ultimate in control. With multi-touch technology, we could even see the beginning of the end of the mouse and the trackpad.

I supervise a 911/Police/Fire Dispatch Center and our new Zetron digital radio system consoles came with touch screen monitors. They were very cool for about the first 8-hours, until the cleaning lady paged-out a half-dozen fire stations with her Swiffer. Now we've mostly shut them off and we use the mouse like God intended us to.

 

[sishaw]

I supervise a 911/Police/Fire Dispatch Center and our new Zetron digital radio system consoles came with touch screen monitors. They were very cool for about the first 8-hours, until the cleaning lady paged-out a half-dozen fire stations with her Swiffer. Now we've mostly shut them off and we use the mouse like God intended us to.

The multi-touch screen of the iPhone has been widely reported not to react to anything but fingers and to be able to distinguish errors.

I also posted elsewhere that a touch-screen iMac would be excellent. I also agree that it may not work as well for a standard laptop, but then, we would expect some redesign to make it work, so "dragging my finger across my macbook screen" really isn't the point.

 

[tk421]

I didn't think of it as biased. The simplest, most intuitive way of doing something on a computer is to do on the computer what most closely represents what you would be doing with your own hands. When you're using a mouse, what you're doing with your hand is a close approximation of what's happening on a screen, but it's not exactly the same. The difference between the two makes using a mouse more difficult and less intuitive. And there is the added frustration of having the mouse at the edge of a mousepad or surface and needing to pick it up and reposition it to finish what you wanted to do on the screen. You may not notice this with daily use of a mouse, because you get used to it, but if you pay attention to how often this happens, you might be surprised. Of course, it's even worse with a trackpad.

This is not to say that a multi-touch display would be superior to a mouse or stylus pad for all applications, but I can see where a multitouch screen could improve the user interface.

Are you kidding? There's no way a touch screen is better than a mouse with a larger screen. You're making smaller moves in a very natural way to indicate larger movements. There's nothing strange about this at all. Most simple machines work by transferring smaller energy into larger tasks. Like riding a bicycle in a higher gear - nobody complains that their legs are just approximating the motion of walking. Instead, they are using something that's more efficient for their particular task.

And then there's the issue of those of us with two monitors. The mouse moves from one to the other seemlessly. It would be very awkward to physically move something from one to the other with touch.

 

[Object-X]

I'm not so sure

Instead of moving your mouse over a pad on your desk to move the cursor on the screen to an item you want to move, double-clicking on the item, and finally dragging it, simply touch your finger directly on what you want to move and drag your finger to where you want it to go. Which would you say is easier and more intuitive?

I'm not trying to being flippant or dis what you're saying, but actually I think the mouse is still better. To sit in front of a monitor with a keyboard, to lift up my arm and try to touch the screen to input actions would be tiresome, slower, and not as precise. I think I would just go back to using the mouse. This is what prompted my question in the first place.

Try it. Pretend like you are going to move a window out of the way and select something underneath it, or grab an item to drag to the dock or trash. Lift up your arm and reach out to the screen. Reach out all the way to the Apple logo in the menu bar (if you're right-handed, or spotlight if you're left). It's awkward and slow, you're whole body moves; I think your arm would get tired of doing it. Also, the mouse can instantiate Expose with a button, right-click for contextual menus, etc. How would these actions map to touch input? And if you are using both the mouse and touch, it seems to me you would end up just using the mouse.

So, I'm still not getting it. I mean, maybe new actions, things we haven't really thought of could be mapped to touch, maybe scrolling like on the iPhone. Perhaps some new application that would work better this way. I don't know. But for just moving stuff around the screen or inserting a cursor, highligthing text, the basic stuff you do with a mouse doesn't seem to translate well with touch.

 

[GregA]

Nice points about impracticality of a touch screen. You've 'set off' a few thoughts
1) In this context, using a mouse sounds like 'magic' - small gesture makes a big movement. I gesture towards my coffee cup and make a slight finger motion and it floats across to me. Far from imitating the real world, we'd rather imitate magic, right?
2) It would seem that a small screen is a really natural place to have a touch screen (like the iPhone).

The mouse will be superceded some time. Perhaps there'll be an interface that watches our eyes and our hand gestures so that we can look at a file and flick our finger to move it. Who knows.

 

[PhotoLogic]

What about those NEW DISPLAYS?

Well, I am still waiting to see the new monitors. New sizes, lighter weight, fantastic color rendition like the EIZO, built-in iSite and an HDMI input. I returned for credit an unopened 30" Cinema Display two weeks before the MacWorld rumor of the new monitors, hoping to get the newest version. Isn't it about time for one that has iSite, since the latest "I'm a PC - I'm a Mac" Tech Support TV ad. I'm a little embarrased to go back and buy the same one again. Oh, well, I might as well. Then I can finally open up the box that has the Quad Xeon desktop, too!

 

[theheadguy]

The mouse will be superceded some time. Perhaps there'll be an interface that watches our eyes and our hand gestures so that we can look at a file and flick our finger to move it. Who knows.

This actually exists. I read about it over 10 years ago and saw a demonstration of it as a way for someone who was paralyzed to type using their eyes... I haven't thought about it since. Maybe it hasn't come very far since then. I think the setup took up an entire room, whereas we would want our built-in eyesites to take care of the trick.

 

[w00master]

I'm not trying to being flippant or dis what you're saying, but actually I think the mouse is still better.

<snipped for brevity>

So, I'm still not getting it. I mean, maybe new actions, things we haven't really thought of could be mapped to touch, maybe scrolling like on the iPhone. Perhaps some new application that would work better this way. I don't know. But for just moving stuff around the screen or inserting a cursor, highligthing text, the basic stuff you do with a mouse doesn't seem to translate well with touch.

I'm TOTALLY with you on this. However, I just had a thought. Maybe we're looking at this "touchscreen" stuff in the wrong way? Instead of looking up at the monitor, look down at the touchpad of your notebook. Maybe they're thinking of replacing the touchpad with a larger touchscreen display?

Here two things could happen: multitouch and mouse gestures, all in one package. Seems to follow Steve Job's philosophy (sometimes overly so) of simplication. Thoughts anyone?

w00master

 

[PhotoLogic]

Multi-Touch Interaction Research

So, what about this Multi-Touch Interaction Research:
http://cs.nyu.edu.nyud.net:8090/~jhan/ftirtouch/
Update: Yes, we saw the keynote too! We have some very, very exciting updates coming soon- stay tuned!
Maybe my new 30" cinema display is all touchscreen with a FTIR (frustrated total internal reflection) sensing technique!

 

[Object-X]

I'm TOTALLY with you on this. However, I just had a thought. Maybe we're looking at this "touchscreen" stuff in the wrong way? Instead of looking up at the monitor, look down at the touchpad of your notebook. Maybe they're thinking of replacing the touchpad with a larger touchscreen display?

Here two things could happen: multitouch and mouse gestures, all in one package. Seems to follow Steve Job's philosophy (sometimes overly so) of simplication. Thoughts anyone?

w00master

Yes, I think you're right. A tablet touch screen makes better sense, but tablets can do hand writing and Jobs didn't seem too keen on a stylus nor has he been overly enthusiastic about tablets in the past. But, there is a new rumor of one coming, and the ModBook at MacWorld got a lot of attention. So, it remains to be seen.