Major gaming news at WWDC: Metal and New games

[diamond.g]

How would you quantify just how important the issue of input latency is on Mac-compatible online competitive twitch games (aka CS:GO, Fortnite etc) vs an offline-only fighting game like Street Fighter?

I presume turning off Apple Mouse acceleration will help with twitch FPS. Street Fighter isn't offline only (your run through the game assumes you are willing to have online challengers which is annoying in my opinion). Netcode for fighting games is a big argument, more so than for first person shooters.


EDIT: The folks that are really good at SF tend to know frame counts for animations and when they can do things like reversals and tech hits that all rely on the timing of said animations and a characters reach (for hit box stuff).

 

[quarkysg]

I presume turning off Apple Mouse acceleration will help with twitch FPS. Street Fighter isn't offline only (your run through the game assumes you are willing to have online challengers which is annoying in my opinion). Netcode for fighting games is a big argument, more so than for first person shooters.


EDIT: The folks that are really good at SF tend to know frame counts for animations and when they can do things like reversals and tech hits that all rely on the timing of said animations and a characters reach (for hit box stuff).

A typical human's reaction time is in the range of 100s of ms if I'm not wrong. I don't think input latency is something to worry about for a long time for any hardware or OS.

 

[diamond.g]

So what game is Apple going to announce coming to macOS at the next WWDC? Jedi Survivor would be cool. As would Hogwarts (with both coming out this year on macOS not next that would be a nice surprise).

 

[thenewperson]

So what game is Apple going to announce coming to macOS at the next WWDC? Jedi Survivor would be cool. As would Hogwarts (with both coming out this year on macOS not next that would be a nice surprise).

I… really hope they announce a bit more than two games lol

 

[diamond.g]

I… really hope they announce a bit more than two games lol

Really I am not sure why macOS ports of games are held to secrecy, we usually know what platform games that are announced are going to be released on. Historically "surprise" ports are usually because the game wasn't expected to run on the hardware (so really this just means the Switch getting a newer game being a surprise).

 

[jeanlain]

Really I am not sure why macOS ports of games are held to secrecy

They're announced months before release, so not exactly held to secrecy.

 

[diamond.g]

They're announced months before release, so not exactly held to secrecy.

Maybe it just feels like a while because it tends to not be day and date and thus the hype has already died down.

 

[Homy]

Crossover's new update 22.1 offers great news for me personally and others. Many old 32-bit games now work great. My favorite Bioshock Infinite which I barely could play on my iMac 2011 is one so now I can finish it on my M1 Max. Other games now working great are Borderlands 1, Deus Ex HR and Calll of Duty 2.

Presenting CrossOver 22.1 — The hallmark of this holiday | CodeWeavers Blog

By Jana Schmid | Hallmarks of the CrossOver 22.1 release for macOS, Linux and ChromeOS and 25% limited time offer.

www.codeweavers.com

 

[jeanlain]

Many old 32-bit games now work great.

And still no way to play 32-bit Mac games...

 

[goro123]

Crossover's new update 22.1 offers great news for me personally and others. Many old 32-bit games now work great. My favorite Bioshock Infinite which I barely could play on my iMac 2011 is one so now I can finish it on my M1 Max. Other games now working great are Borderlands 1, Deus Ex HR and Calll of Duty 2.

Presenting CrossOver 22.1 — The hallmark of this holiday | CodeWeavers Blog

By Jana Schmid | Hallmarks of the CrossOver 22.1 release for macOS, Linux and ChromeOS and 25% limited time offer.

www.codeweavers.com

👍

Not 32 bits, but does anyone know if doom (the recent one) works in cross over on M1 ?

 

[Homy]

👍

Not 32 bits, but does anyone know if doom (the recent one) works in cross over on M1 ?

You mean Eternal? Not according to their compatibility list, but it hasn't been tested in 22.1, only in 21.2. Doesn't work in Parallels 17.1.1 either. Not tested in 18 though.

 

[goro123]

You mean Eternal? Not according to their compatibility list, but it hasn't been tested in 22.1, only in 21.2. Doesn't work in Parallels 17.1.1 either. Not tested in 18 though.

Yes, Eternal or the 2016 version. Anyway to play them on M1 ?

I just played through Doom3 on M1 (thanks to the Dhewm port from MacSourcePort) and RoE. This games still looks awesome - and I love the "simple" gameplay.

 

[Homy]

Yes, Eternal or the 2016 version. Anyway to play them on M1 ?

No, not yet but they haven't been tested in Crossover 22.1. You can download the demo and try it for yourself.

 

[Irishman]

So what game is Apple going to announce coming to macOS at the next WWDC? Jedi Survivor would be cool. As would Hogwarts (with both coming out this year on macOS not next that would be a nice surprise).

I really don't care for Rowling's recent inhumane takes on trans people, so I won't be playing that - even if they gave it away for free. Jedi Survivor sounds cool, though.

If I'm getting optimistic and unlikely, anything from Doom 2016, Doom Eternal, Wolfenstein New Order, Wolfenstein Old Blood, anything using idTTech 5 through 7, which are still proprietary.

And getting into the realm of straight up dreaming - how about Crysis and Far Cry?

 

[Homy]

So what game is Apple going to announce coming to macOS at the next WWDC?

WWDC is only four months away so it will be NMS and Grid Legends.

 

[diamond.g]

WWDC is only four months away so it will be NMS and Grid Legends.

Which would be incredibly disappointing since they were announced last year, unless they are getting VR support then it would be cool.

 

[jeanlain]

If I'm getting optimistic and unlikely, anything from Doom 2016, Doom Eternal, Wolfenstein New Order, Wolfenstein Old Blood, anything using idTTech 5 through 7, which are still proprietary.

No chance. These games were not even ported to Linux despite the use of Vulkan. I'm sure the guys at ID would have ported the DOOM games, but someone at Bethesda must be a d*ck about ports to less-profitable platforms.

These games run well with Proton though, and linux people can enjoy them.
However, I'm not optimistic about the possibility to play these games in crossover. MoltenVK simply doesn't support some Vulkan features they use.

 

[diamond.g]

No chance. These games were not even ported to Linux despite the use of Vulkan. I'm sure the guys at ID would have ported the DOOM games, but someone at Bethesda must be a d*ck about ports to less-profitable platforms.

These games run well with Proton though, and linux people can enjoy them.
However, I'm not optimistic about the possibility to play these games in crossover. MoltenVK simply doesn't support some Vulkan features they use.

Yeah iD went all in on "open" api's. With MS owning them now, I am not sure that will still be a thing.

 

[galad]

It's 2023 and AAA games developers (and everyone else) still give zero cares about Vulkan (and Metal).
A minority of vocal fanboys out there, but in the end games will use DirectX, and that's it.

 

[diamond.g]

It's 2023 and AAA games developers (and everyone else) still give zero cares about Vulkan (and Metal).
A minority of vocal fanboys out there, but in the end games will use DirectX, and that's it.

Yeah DX and GNM are basically the 2 go-to API's for console/pc games these days.

 

[diamond.g]

Interesting review. IIRC when the GPU utilization is under 100% it means you are CPU Bound.

 

[Homy]

Which would be incredibly disappointing since they were announced last year, unless they are getting VR support then it would be cool.

I know, I was joking since the release is delayed and WWDC is only four month away. It would feel like deja vu.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Which would be incredibly disappointing since they were announced last year, unless they are getting VR support then it would be cool.

There will be more. Actually, there will be a revolution for Mac gaming at WWDC. Fully Metal 3 optimized and with only a minor delay compared to the initial release, Apple will show a preview and announce the release of... Pong! 🤣

 

[Homy]

Microsoft now officially allows Windows 11 to be used with Parallels on Apple Silicon. Could be because Microsoft's exclusivity deal with Qualcomm was expired.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/16/windows-11-pro-parallels-apple-silicon-mac-support/

Options for using Windows 11 with Mac® computers with Apple® M1®, M2™, and M3™ chips - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

 

[Homy]

Cities: Skylines Remastered is released for consoles. Almost all of Paradox Interactive's games have a Mac port so I checked if they have updated the game for AS but it seems they are a small developer with no dedicated Mac team so they won't support AS. Despite the fact that their games work in Rosetta they're officially unsupported on AS.

"Support for newer hardware is unfortunately not feasible. This is not exclusive to Mac users, but as Apple Silicon is used in more and more Macs, it does affect our Mac players more. We do not have a dedicated Mac development team, we are not that large a studio that we have devs dedicated to one OS alone. Providing support for Apple Silicon would require a significant amount of work, which I'm afraid just isn't feasible for us to do."

"I understand this is not the response you were hoping for and for that I am sorry. We also wish this was something we could easily provide for our Mac players, but unfortunately, that is not the case. I hope you are still able to enjoy the game, both playing and modding it. The built-in C# compiler had to be dropped from Mac due to notarization issues. I'm afraid that isn't something we are able to support again. ModTools uses that compiler, which is why scripts do not work on Mac. It would be possible for ModTools to include its own compiler, though of course, that would require the modder to add that, which they may not want to or be able to do."

"I just want to clarify what "not supported" means to avoid any confusion. It means we can't guarantee the game runs as it should on that hardware. We have players who have had great experiences playing on Apple Silicon and we have had players who have run into issues. As the hardware is unsupported, it means any issues specific to that hardware may not be fixed."