Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 missing

[BenTrovato]

How's this for speculation: hijackers took over the aircraft. Pilots cooperated in turning off transmissions. Situation deteriorated, and instead of losing control of aircraft, the hijackers released a nerve agent that killed everyone and the plane continued on its last heading until it ran out of gas.

I'm not smiling, but I've been thinking why fly out into the Indian Ocean and it makes no sense, unless someone wants to hide something. What would that be? Which brings me back to one of the original theories, pilot suicide and he wanted to spare his family from shame, by trying to dump it somewhere nobody would locate it and figure out what happened. In that light it's really maddening that someone would have no compunction of taking an entire aircraft of innocent people with him.

That's more probable than a lot of the other junk floating around. IF what they have reported on TV was the case (re: location) then something along those lines is probably what happened.

No matter what though, with the amount of satellites that are constantly surveying the Earth, it doesn't make sense that they lost the aircraft. The technology Google used to take a picture of the car on my driveway (that is available to the entire world) is over 10 years old. The lenses they use now with tracking sensors are super advanced. Also the drone deployment capabilities we have today are insane. They can deploy a network of drones to literally any location within an hour. So if the plane was aloft for as long as they say, there's no way it goes missing.

 

[Huntn]

Everybody who got on board has had their backgrounds checked extensively - both by government agencies and the media. Nobody is even hinting that anybody on board had any ties to any group that might want to hijack a plane.

More speculation: Inside job.

More importantly, no group has claimed responsibility for this. If this was an act of terrorism we would have heard from the perpetrators by now.

Until the remains of the aircraft are found we are still largely just guessing.

Valid point unless they decided not to broadcast it for whatever the reason. Total guessing on my part, just thinking of what was possible.

 

[moonman239]

Agreed. For them to even get over here, they'd have to pass within range of Kadena Air Base (Okinawa), Andersen AFB (Guam), two Atolls (Wake and Midway Islands), and Hickham AFB (Honolulu) to even reach the mainland USA.

BL.

Don't forget Los Angeles AFB & Travis AFB. They're both located in California.

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Anyways, it appears that any theory about where the plane landed is still a mystery. Some people think the Malaysian Prime Minister said the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean, when in reality, he only mentioned a potential sighting by people who looked at satellite images.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/whats-next-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Inmarsat's analysis favors the southern of the two possible routes and suggests the aircraft went down in the Indian Ocean somewhere west of Australia. it's the simplest explanation at this point and thus the most likely.

If that is what happened, it could take years to find the remains of the aircraft - if it is ever found. Without that evidence the cause of the affair may remain a mystery forever.

 

[malman89]

I love all the nutjob conspiracy theories in this thread and in the news. I barely read any developing stories because every one was someone talking out of their ass without any proof or data - Terrorists! Pilot's fault! Iran - ERMAGAWD! Just kidding! They went this way! No, that way!

It was almost a running joke to me. I say almost because the fact that 200-something lives and families were involved stopped me from laughing at the stupidity going on just to make headlines or save face.

The story isn't over yet - and may never be - but at least we're a few steps closer today than we were.

 

[bradl]

Don't forget Los Angeles AFB & Travis AFB. They're both located in California.

----------

Anyways, it appears that any theory about where the plane landed is still a mystery. Some people think the Malaysian Prime Minister said the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean, when in reality, he only mentioned a potential sighting by people who looked at satellite images.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/whats-next-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370

Too far in.

If anything, they'd hit Hickham AFB first in Honolulu, or avoid the coastal route altogether and take the northern route like every other Transpac route would, that doesn't come from Oceania. That would get them in range of Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage or Eielson AFB in Fairbanks. After that, Lewis/McChord or Fairchild AFB in Washington state.

Either way, long shot for them to do this, and now irrelevant, due to the announcements today.

BL.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

More details on Inmarsat's method for providing an estimated crash location. In short, they measured the doppler effect on the pings from the aircraft and compared it to those from other Boeing 777s in the area to produce an educated guess of where MH370 would have run out of fuel.

This still results in a huge search area, but it's an improvement.

 

[BenTrovato]

I love all the nutjob conspiracy theories in this thread and in the news. I barely read any developing stories because every one was someone talking out of their ass without any proof or data - Terrorists! Pilot's fault! Iran - ERMAGAWD! Just kidding! They went this way! No, that way!

It was almost a running joke to me. I say almost because the fact that 200-something lives and families were involved stopped me from laughing at the stupidity going on just to make headlines or save face.

The story isn't over yet - and may never be - but at least we're a few steps closer today than we were.

They went this way, no that way. Let's interview this pilot, no that pilot. Let's show the one Chinese woman frantically crying over and over but not the rest of the families. This is the NEW search area where the plane COULD have gone. Chinese satellites have spotted debris in the Indian ocean corridor - oh wait it was just a piece of wood.

In case you're having a hard time deciphering who I am describing, it's not the nut job conspiracy people, but America's most treasured and obviously most truthful news broadcast station - CNN.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

In case you're having a hard time deciphering who I am describing, it's not the nut job conspiracy people, but America's most treasured and obviously most truthful news broadcast station - CNN.

Funny, sounds like you are describing every news agency in the whole world there. Even Reuters and the AP were reporting on silly speculations here and there. So was the CBC.

 

[yg17]

Funny, sounds like you are describing every news agency in the whole world there. Even Reuters and the AP were reporting on silly speculations here and there. So was the CBC.

Still better than a certain American "news" network that's so sure it's a hijacking and the plane landed safely somewhere to be used for a terrorist attack because the pilots and many of the passengers were Muslim. I won't point fingers, but the network name rhymes with "Box Dews". I'll give you 3 guesses

 

[quagmire]

The Daily Show nailed it last night making fun of the media BS surrounding MH370.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episodes/wi0xs9/march-24--2014---arianna-huffington

 

[Aspasia]

Still better than a certain American "news" network that's so sure it's a hijacking and the plane landed safely somewhere to be used for a terrorist attack because the pilots and many of the passengers were Muslim. I won't point fingers, but the network name rhymes with "Box Dews". I'll give you 3 guesses

Interesting. I saw that same claim thoroughly debunked on the same network last night. Perhaps you are attributing the claim of just one person to an entire network?

 

[quagmire]

Still better than a certain American "news" network that's so sure it's a hijacking and the plane landed safely somewhere to be used for a terrorist attack because the pilots and many of the passengers were Muslim. I won't point fingers, but the network name rhymes with "Box Dews". I'll give you 3 guesses

Interesting. I saw that same claim thoroughly debunked on the same network last night. Perhaps you are attributing the claim of just one person to an entire network?

Yeah as the Daily Show link I shared above, Stewart showed a clip from MSNBC saying close to the same thing( minus the muslim BS).

Fox News is not alone in having that theory the plane is in some jungle to be used in a terrorist attack later.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

All of the 24 hour TV news networks have to fill their time slots, so they give undue attention to wild speculation by "experts" (a.k.a whoever they can dig up at short notice).

People complained that many of the more respectable news agencies went for hours with little to report on MH370 - because there was little to report. Meanwhile, the 24 hour TV news networks let their imaginations run riot to satisfy a zero-attention-span viewer base.

 

[whooleytoo]

To me the most plausible theory (which I assume has been posted in the last dozen pages or so) was from a ex-pilot who suggested a fire on-board.

They'd have to pull the electrical buses to isolate the circuit the fire is on. That could explain the loss of signal. With smoke/fumes entering the cabin, it's possible the crew became unconscious - apparently oxygen masks aren't used in the case of fire.

With the flight crew unconscious the plane flew on until it ran out of fuel and crashed. There have been several similar cases (though relating to cabin depressurisation rather than fire). It doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

 

[Huntn]

To me the most plausible theory (which I assume has been posted in the last dozen pages or so) was from a ex-pilot who suggested a fire on-board.

They'd have to pull the electrical buses to isolate the circuit the fire is on. That could explain the loss of signal. With smoke/fumes entering the cabin, it's possible the crew became unconscious - apparently oxygen masks aren't used in the case of fire.

With the flight crew unconscious the plane flew on until it ran out of fuel and crashed. There have been several similar cases (though relating to cabin depressurisation rather than fire). It doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

That sounds plausible. Something that Boeing would really want to know about. O2 masks in the cabin are diluter type that mix O2 with ambient air so they don't protect against fire fumes.

 

[juanm]

To me the most plausible theory (which I assume has been posted in the last dozen pages or so) was from a ex-pilot who suggested a fire on-board.

They'd have to pull the electrical buses to isolate the circuit the fire is on. That could explain the loss of signal. With smoke/fumes entering the cabin, it's possible the crew became unconscious - apparently oxygen masks aren't used in the case of fire.

With the flight crew unconscious the plane flew on until it ran out of fuel and crashed. There have been several similar cases (though relating to cabin depressurisation rather than fire). It doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

I agree it seems the most plausible explanation for the indian ocean run, however:
1- Why didn't they say anything on the radio? They made a few changes in course, so they sure could have let the controllers know they were fighting a fire. It would have taken them literally a few seconds.
2- What kind of fire spreads fast enough to kill/disable everyone on board in a few minutes, yet doesn't harm the plane (and god know how metal is fragile at extreme temperatures/tensions) so that it can keep on its autopilot course until it crashes.

A question: if the O2 masks drop, and there's a fire, is there some kind of system that stops the flow to prevent that oxygen from feeding the fire?

 

[chabig]

if the O2 masks drop, and there's a fire, is there some kind of system that stops the flow to prevent that oxygen from feeding the fire?

Oxygen masks drop automatically for cabin depressurization. Pilots can drop them manually but they wouldn't do that for fire (they only enrich the oxygen in the air the passengers breathe so they would still be breathing smoke). They are chemical generators--once they drop, they produce oxygen for about 15 minutes and there is no stopping them.

 

[Peace]

Could be they navigation system went whacky because of fire and the pilots thought they were on the right course when they passed out.

 

[chabig]

Could be they navigation system went whacky because of fire and the pilots thought they were on the right course when they passed out.

I wouldn't expect that to happen. Fire doesn't make electrical things whacky. They usually work until they stop working or are turned off.

 

[bradl]

I agree it seems the most plausible explanation for the indian ocean run, however:
1- Why didn't they say anything on the radio? They made a few changes in course, so they sure could have let the controllers know they were fighting a fire. It would have taken them literally a few seconds.
2- What kind of fire spreads fast enough to kill/disable everyone on board in a few minutes, yet doesn't harm the plane (and god know how metal is fragile at extreme temperatures/tensions) so that it can keep on its autopilot course until it crashes.

A question: if the O2 masks drop, and there's a fire, is there some kind of system that stops the flow to prevent that oxygen from feeding the fire?

Again, this all depends on where the fire is located, if there indeed was one.

Without going into all possibilities of where this fire could have been, let's focus on a couple of things here.

First, Distance. For a 6 hour flight, it would be safe to say that there was only one set of pilots here: just the captain and FO. In short, no backup crew, like you would see on overseas flights. So if a fire broke out, the FAs and possibly one of the pilots would have to take care of it.

Transponders. If electrical, I could see an electrical fire take out a transponder. Both? I would seriously doubt. Huntn in your trips with NWA (I'm going to assume you flew either their B744s or DC10s when they had them in service), to my knowledge, redundancy was tied into all of the avionics, meaning that they would be on two completely separate systems as far as cabling and wiring go. Though I'm not sure on which way those wirings would go. Would they be routed throughout the fuselage the same way, or different paths? If together, the point they meet would be a single point of failure; as in, if fire hits where they are joined, then both go out.

Wash/Rinse/Repeat for their radios. If one radio is out, their secondary one should still be able to be used. They could transmit on that, especially on Guard, and let ATC know their intentions.

This is all assuming that the fire was electrical. Either way, this still goes back to a pilot's main premise in an emergency: Land the plane. At that point, if comms are out (unknown at this point), avionics were not (the AP was still functioning, meaning that the engines and EFIS were still fine), they could still get the aircraft back to the nearest suitable (or any) airport. Heading back out into the Indian Ocean for 6 hours longer than they intended would go completely against what they should have been trained to do in the event of a fire, internal, external, or otherwise.

BL.

 

[snberk103]

I agree it seems the most plausible explanation for the indian ocean run, however:
1- Why didn't they say anything on the radio? They made a few changes in course, so they sure could have let the controllers know they were fighting a fire. It would have taken them literally a few seconds.
2- What kind of fire spreads fast enough to kill/disable everyone on board in a few minutes, yet doesn't harm the plane (and god know how metal is fragile at extreme temperatures/tensions) so that it can keep on its autopilot course until it crashes.
...

1) If was an electrical fire that was affecting the radio systems, or if the pilots just assumed it was in that area and had turned off power. The first course correction, if I understood the article correctly, put them directly in line for a long runway with an easy approach. It wasn't actually the nearest the runway… but it was the nearest best runway for an airplane that was experiencing system failures. (Earlier in this thread the link to this analysis is in either something else I've posted - or someone just below my post… I forget.)

2) The smouldering kind…. especially if it involves chemicals. If the pilots were incapacitated initially - how would anyone else know? They're behind a locked door. How long would a plane load of passengers meekly sit in their seats before becoming suspicious that something was wrong. Especially if the pilots had declared an emergency early on and told the passengers to stay in their seats with their seat belts fastened. At that point the flight attendants would have seen it as their duty to leave the pilots alone (thinking that they were actively dealing with an emergency) and to keep the passengers in their seats. If there was smoke or fumes… this is when the passengers would have succumbed, I suppose.

Even if a few people decided to rush the flight deck to make sure the pilots were OK, they would have had a challenge getting through it… it's armoured of course. How long can you keep it up if there is noxious fumes?

A fire can smoulder for hours… especially in an oxygen deprived environment… like at height.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

The Daily Show nailed it last night making fun of the media BS surrounding MH370.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episodes/wi0xs9/march-24--2014---arianna-huffington

That was hilarious.

 

[juanm]

1) If was an electrical fire that was affecting the radio systems, or if the pilots just assumed it was in that area and had turned off power. The first course correction, if I understood the article correctly, put them directly in line for a long runway with an easy approach. It wasn't actually the nearest the runway… but it was the nearest best runway for an airplane that was experiencing system failures. (Earlier in this thread the link to this analysis is in either something else I've posted - or someone just below my post… I forget.)

2) The smouldering kind…. especially if it involves chemicals. If the pilots were incapacitated initially - how would anyone else know? They're behind a locked door. How long would a plane load of passengers meekly sit in their seats before becoming suspicious that something was wrong. Especially if the pilots had declared an emergency early on and told the passengers to stay in their seats with their seat belts fastened. At that point the flight attendants would have seen it as their duty to leave the pilots alone (thinking that they were actively dealing with an emergency) and to keep the passengers in their seats. If there was smoke or fumes… this is when the passengers would have succumbed, I suppose.

Even if a few people decided to rush the flight deck to make sure the pilots were OK, they would have had a challenge getting through it… it's armoured of course. How long can you keep it up if there is noxious fumes?

A fire can smoulder for hours… especially in an oxygen deprived environment… like at height.

Ok, so it would have to be at the same time electrical and (ideally) chemical for both scenarios to be likely ?
Another round of questions: are the cargo and passenger compartments separated? (airtight separated, I mean). I've heard that some airlines/aircraft carry a satellite phone in the passenger area available to the crew in case of emergencies. Did that aircraft carry one?

 

[bradl]

Ok, so it would have to be at the same time electrical and (ideally) chemical for both scenarios to be likely ?
Another round of questions: are the cargo and passenger compartments separated? (airtight separated, I mean). I've heard that some airlines/aircraft carry a satellite phone in the passenger area available to the crew in case of emergencies. Did that aircraft carry one?

Again, this is assuming radio is out as well. What I mean by radio, is the ability to transmit on either VHF or UHF frequencies.

If they aren't out, it would be easier to transmit on the Emergency or Guard frequency, which in most places on the planet, it is 121.5.

A lot of times, that reaches out a lot farther than hoping to pick up satcom to get to a certain place. Prime example:

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/for...t-dead-guy-in-the-blackrock-desert-today-2642

Post #1 and #7 in that thread are perfect examples of how far Guard can get you. A few pages in, they were talking about how his transmission from northern Nevada was heard as far north as Calgary.

On most overseas flights (and even most domestic ones), all pilots monitor that frequency, especially for cases like this. I would think that if something catastrophic happened, but was controllable, especially with the fact that they flew on for another 5 - 6 hours, they would have transmitted on guard and said something.

BL.