MasterCard Offers Apple Pay Users Free Public Transit in London Starting Today

[Farsider]

I could be wrong and no doubt will be corrected but I wouldn't have thought many people would use this free offer as most people, bar tourists, in London on a Monday are residents or daily commuters into the city and are using Oyster or a rail ticket with prepaid zones.

Yes, I totally agree. It's a Monday, everyone is at work. I can't see many taking a day off work to travel into London just because the travel is free with ApplePay on that day.

You're right, those that are likely to benefit would already be travelling into London.....and they'll only see the saving if they are a PAYG customer. Those with season tickets aren't going to benefit.

 

[Manderby]

I think, using ApplePay in public transport is a good idea to start with.

But...

America might not understand how public transport is rolling in the rest of the world. It's not something you actively do, it's not something you need to make faster, it's something you just expect to roll the way it already does since years. Public transport is a flow. Everything which disturbs or even interrupts the flow is bad, even if it is just a tourist standing on the wrong side of the staircase or someone using half a second more to pay for a ticket.

That's why most of the people using public transport have abonnements and do not even need to pay at the turning triangle. And this is just for tubes which not that many cities have. The vast majority of public transport uses a trust-and-ride policy where the customer is just expected to have a ticket. How does he gets one? At the ticket machines which are generously available use or even online. Since years. And there, ApplePay would be just yet another option of payement, which in this particular case is just not very wide-spread, even after years of having NFC terminals.

So, yeah, free is good. But how many people will use it and benefit from the praised simplicity really? Tourists and occasional riders, two not too good references for making a payement method look better in the broad public.

This is how people using public transport will react:

Oh, that guy in front of me is pulling out his iPhone to pay for the ticket. He will take forever and probably hinder us normal riders even more while checking if the transaction went right and trying to put back his phone into his pocket after the entrance. Let's bypass him quickly.

And that behaviour is not something which must be judged. It is simply how public transport rolls. Those who do not roll like it are the outsiders. They are the people which create stress.

 

[IvanX]

Actually, it's rude, to be frank. People are humans, not robots. If someone takes an extra half second to get through the turnstile it's not something to get your knickers in a twist about, whether they're a tourist or a resident. If I was going through the turnstile and you were rude to me for taking a half second longer than you thought I should you'd be pretty butt hurt after I got finished giving you a very public dressing down.

An extra half a second per person may seem like nothing, until you realise that it adds up when lots of people are involved. And half a second could be the difference between making or missing a train. And I wouldn't care what you'd have to say on the other side of the gates as I'd just keep walking...

Relax mate, I often can't be bothered to look for my Oyster and use a contactless card if I've one to hand. Say I've just bought a coffee on the way in. Caught myself doing a little hitch-step to account for the latency before the barrier opens. You barely break stride.

I can't imagine your blood-pressure when standing behind a tourist trying to pay for something with a magnetic swipe credit/debit card and you just know the young looking shop assistant is not quite sure how it process it.

What many people do not seem to realise is that a lot of people treat the Tube commute as a means to an end, a commodity. This is why we try to optimise every aspect of the journey in order to keep door to door time to a minimum. There is an app that tells you where the station exit is so that you can position yourself in a suitable train carriage. People change at stations for certain faster trains. Some people even decide on lines to take based on how quickly they can change to a different line. You do not have to join such group of people, but people who have got their commute routine down to a science are out there. For someone who wants to get through the gates in the fastest manner possible, Oyster is still the card of choice.

 

[Farsider]

As a 10 year commuter on the Tube myself, you're absolutely right. This does exist and I do understand why people do this.

However, a 0.5sec delay on the ticket barrier does not matter to an individual in the grand scheme of things.

 

[bbfc]

Not all of Britain lives in London... in fact nowhere outside of London supports Oyster-style ticketing or contactless payments to the same level London does.

Oyster is great, and I have one for when I travel to London (I don't want to look like a tourist! ) Here in Tyne & Wear we have the POP Card, though its only valid on the Metro at the moment, and I think you have to have a separate card for PAYG and for Season Tickets. It would be cool if it could be used on local rail and buses, but the way buses are operated in London is completely different to the rest of the UK.

 

[gnasher729]

Gimmick. And, since NFC is slower than Oyster, this is just going to cause unnecessary congestion.

Since when is NFC slower than Oyster? Not in my experience.

Unnecessary for who? People are saving money. We recently visited London (from the US) recently, and after a few days, I was AMAZED how good the tube system is in London. I was also amazed by how rude Londoners were, with their dirty looks and pushing and shoving, because we weren't moving through the entry points fast enough for them. Then I thought, "Why is everyone in such a hurry when trains leave EVERY MINUTE OR TWO!!!!! Literally, if you miss a train, another one shows up in a minute. It's a great system! But people are rushing through like it's the end of the world or something.

You would look at things differently if it was your daily commute, and if the one minute could mean being late to work, or having to run to your connecting train instead of walking or missing it. God, I hate tourists.

 

[MarcoB]

I watched it 2 times. I don´t see the guy´s thumb on the TouchID home button. If you watch the iPhone - Guided Tour: Apple Pay, Apple makes it clear one has to stick a finger there in order to approve the transaction.

Bad use of an ad that wants to show users/clients how easy the process is.

 

[gnasher729]

That's awfully strong language from a resident of a city that derives almost 10% of its gross annual income from tourism, and in which the tourism sector accounts for 13% of the jobs.

Hope you didn't put that little diatribe on your application for London city ambassador... ;-)

The point is that I'm _not_ a resident of that city.

 

[Farsider]

I watched it 2 times. I don´t see the guy´s thumb on the TouchID home button. If you watch the iPhone - Guided Tour: Apple Pay, Apple makes it clear one has to stick a finger there in order to approve the transaction.

Bad use of an ad that wants to show users/clients how easy the process is.

You can pre-authorise a transaction before touching the touch pad. I do this everyday. Open Wallet on your iPhone and put your Thumb on the Reader. The phone will remain in payment mode for the next 60 seconds. Simply touch the phone on the Oystercard reader and you're through.

 

[digger10]

...
What many people do not seem to realise is that a lot of people treat the Tube commute as a means to an end, a commodity. This is why we try to optimise every aspect of the journey in order to keep door to door time to a minimum. There is an app that tells you where the station exit is so that you can position yourself in a suitable train carriage. People change at stations for certain faster trains. Some people even decide on lines to take based on how quickly they can change to a different line. You do not have to join such group of people, but people who have got their commute routine down to a science are out there. For someone who wants to get through the gates in the fastest manner possible, Oyster is still the card of choice.

I live here. I think everybody naturally optimises their commute and other journeys. I know precisely where to stand at my start station to ensure I arrive exactly in front of the escalator and avoid queuing longer than necessary at my destination. I know the exits on my commute and popular stations. I know that by walking contra to the flow and signs how to make my connection quicker using a "non advertised" route. I know which stations, on which lines, have long connections generally and avoid them if practical. I know when it's quicker to get off and walk overland than to make a change. It's a minor annoyance when the doors open in a different place than is normal and I'm not longer in front of the door, risking not getting a seat. Most people do these things.

But expecting guests to have perfect "tube etiquette" or worrying about a slight stutter when using a non-Oyster card is not a concern to most people and a bit rude imo.

You get through a barrier "quick enough" with ApplePay as long as you're ready to pay, and most people are.

 

[MarcoB]

You can pre-authorise a transaction before touching the touch pad. I do this everyday. Open Wallet on your iPhone and put your Thumb on the Reader. The phone will remain in payment mode for the next 60 seconds. Simply touch the phone on the Oystercard reader and you're through.

Good to know, but here in Brazil we don´t have Apple Pay yet. But I think having your finger on TouchID is faster, at least on iPhone 6S and 6S Plus. TouchID in these devices is much faster and accurate. My iPhone 6S is so fast and accurate it is mind boggling. It never miss a read only if finger has lost of grease.

 

[naujoks]

Just waiting for the first reports to come in of people having their iPhones snatched from them in that moment...

 

[rdlink]

An extra half a second per person may seem like nothing, until you realise that it adds up when lots of people are involved. And half a second could be the difference between making or missing a train. And I wouldn't care what you'd have to say on the other side of the gates as I'd just keep walking...

If 6 seconds means the difference between making or missing your train the solution is not to chide others, but to get out of bed 30 seconds earlier.

Interesting that you would be able to "just keep walking" on the platform, but you can't seem to do that now...

 

[kdarling]

If 6 seconds means the difference between making or missing your train the solution is not to chide others, but to get out of bed 30 seconds earlier.

It adds up quickly.

Delaying 100 people an extra half second each is almost a minute delay for the last person. Then multiply that by several times for large stations.

However, people adapt. I suspect it was even slower before Oyster cards.

 

[rdlink]

It adds up quickly.

Delaying 100 people an extra half second each is almost a minute delay for the last person. Then multiply that by several times for large stations.

However, people adapt. I suspect it was even slower before Oyster cards.

I've worked in London for weeks at a time in the last 10 years, and honestly I never remember being in a long queue at the turnstiles. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that I have never seen it.

I have used mass transit systems extensively in major cities all over the US and Europe, and the problem has never surfaced for me except for two instances. First, as I mentioned yesterday when people use cash or paper tickets to board buses in Denver. And second the long lines that queue up in DC when people are leaving the Metro because you have to card in and card out.

 

[digger10]

I've worked in London for weeks at a time in the last 10 years, and honestly I never remember being in a long queue at the turnstiles. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that I have never seen it.

I have used mass transit systems extensively in major cities all over the US and Europe, and the problem has never surfaced for me except for two instances. First, as I mentioned yesterday when people use cash or paper tickets to board buses in Denver. And second the long lines that queue up in DC when people are leaving the Metro because you have to card in and card out.

It can get pretty bad. At Victoria Station, for example, Transport for London regularly blocks entry to the station for 5-10 minutes at a time at rush hour because the station is dangerously full. A few trains go through which eases congestion, then they open the gates again. This can happen both in the morning and the evening on the same day sometimes.

 

[Cybbe]

I've worked in London for weeks at a time in the last 10 years, and honestly I never remember being in a long queue at the turnstiles. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that I have never seen it.

I have used mass transit systems extensively in major cities all over the US and Europe, and the problem has never surfaced for me except for two instances. First, as I mentioned yesterday when people use cash or paper tickets to board buses in Denver. And second the long lines that queue up in DC when people are leaving the Metro because you have to card in and card out.

Queues at some of the tube station is the rule at rush hour. At Holborn it's quite common to see lines extending outside of the station - and it has a separate exit for those who are leaving for this very reason.

See, for instance:

pic.twitter.com/BublRE6yHm— Jamie Kitson (@jamiekitson) May 14, 2015

 

[rdlink]

It can get pretty bad. At Victoria Station, for example, Transport for London regularly blocks entry to the station for 5-10 minutes at a time at rush hour because the station is dangerously full. A few trains go through which eases congestion, then they open the gates again. This can happen both in the morning and the evening on the same day sometimes.

Queues at some of the tube station is the rule at rush hour. At Holborn it's quite common to see lines extending outside of the station - and it has a separate exit for those who are leaving for this very reason.

See, for instance:

pic.twitter.com/BublRE6yHm— Jamie Kitson (@jamiekitson) May 14, 2015

Okay then. Thanks for the information. Still belligerent and petty of the other poster who blasted people who might take an extra half second to go through the line. ;-)

 

[geoff.barnett]

It's been a few years since I rode the London transit system, so I confess that I don't know how many people use paper passes vs. cash vs. Oyster Card. But I know here in Denver, where we have NFC touchless readers on our buses and trains the biggest holdup is people who pay with ride coupons and cash. And I would love the opportunity to have my Eco Pass on my iPhone, so I don't have to fumble to pull my card out of my wallet.

In the UK we have contactless credit and debit cards (Visa & Mastercard are supported) that allow us to perform transactions of up to £30 contactlessly and without a PIN verification, this is the same limit (£30) as Apple Pay. Apple pay is arguably more secure, since it also requires fingerprint or pin authentication on the mobile device. If the card companies really wanted to increase adoption of Apple Pay, then they would raise this to a higher limit, because right now it's easier to just tap my credit card on the reader, than to hold up my phone and then use my thumb print... Apple Pay adds no convenience. I haven't even bothered registering my card with Apple Pay and I wont bother until it can do larger transactions.

Anybody in the UK that has a card issued in the last 2 years has one of these contactless enabled cards. Many people now use their contactless cards on the tube, which was supported several months before Apple Pay. TFL takes payment at the end of the day and end of the week, working out the most optimum fare in terms of daily or weekly travel card fares or single journey costs, the fare costs are the same as with Oyster, which is cheaper than paper tickets.

Contactless transaction with visa or mastercard takes a little longer than Oyster, which means that it's more common for fast moving commuters to walk in to the ticket barrier gate than those using Oyster. When you walk in to the gate, the gate goes in to an error state and this can cause a delay as the gate blocks the passanger to make sure they are charged the fare. People using Apple Pay are even slower as they have to hold it over, while using their thumb print.

Using an Apple Watch is actually a better experience, because you dont need to use a thumb print or take a device from your pocket, so I see the use case here, but it's not a good enough reason for me to buy an Apple Watch.

 

[Farsider]

It's already been discussed that Card issuers don't set the Apple Pay limits, it's the retailer.

You can also pre-authorise an Apple Pay transaction for use on the Tube....or anywhere for that matter. No need to wait for TouchID.

So it's not slower than regular contactless. It's the same.

 

[Spendlove]

Huge LOLS at all the armchair London public transport network experts on MacRumours complaining about something free.

Hilarious.

Please come to my Christmas dinner parties to regale my guests and I with witty tales of your daring and adventurous lifestyles.

 

[drzow]

Sorry Mate, dire service compared to the Tube. I live in Boston, but travel back "home" to London about once a year. I love riding the Tube, hate the T. Both are heavily unionized so I'm not sure why one is so much better than the other. I personally find the Tube staff very helpful and friendly, sadly, can't say the same for T staff!

Agreed. I have an Oyster card largely because the TfL staff were so helpful, explained the benefits (how quickly it would pay for itself) and actually came over to the machine and helped me buy it. I travel to Boston all the time (my company is headquartered there) and I can't get a CharlieCard because they won't sell one to me online and I can only buy them there at certain stations during certain hours, which doesn't work because if I'm at HQ, I'm putting in some long hours! Furthermore, the only T service to Logan is the Silver "line", which is beyond pathetic.

 

[drzow]

Chicago's transit system supports NFC payments. New York has an extensive transit system but they have an antiquated payment system that still uses swipe cards.

Ventra, who CTA contracts their payment system out to, has just released a new app to expand Ventra service to Metra and they plan to have the app support ApplePay for Ventra cards at all CTA payment terminals next summer.

The SF Bay Area also has the Clipper NFC card for multiple mass-transit services, which I would expect will support ApplePay soon (if it does not already).

The Atlanta MARTA system also uses a NFC card, which really impressed me because they were the last system I knew that still used tokens -- I guess they jumped right past mag cards.

Seeing as how I have quite the collection of mass-transit cards, I am thrilled to see agencies start to adopt ApplePay so I don't have to remember to pack the appropriate card when I go traveling.

 

[Farsider]

I do think it's very cool being able to travel to work, buy my breakfast, lunch, and cups of coffee using just my Watch/Phone.

 

[Planey28]

Oyster is great, and I have one for when I travel to London (I don't want to look like a tourist! ) Here in Tyne & Wear we have the POP Card, though its only valid on the Metro at the moment, and I think you have to have a separate card for PAYG and for Season Tickets. It would be cool if it could be used on local rail and buses, but the way buses are operated in London is completely different to the rest of the UK.

We have the Swift card in Birmingham - as you say since transport is not regulated as it is in London anywhere else in the UK its not possible to have the same level of integration and contactless. The ability to regulate bus routes is being 'devolved' to the large cities in the next few years so perhaps Apple Pay will be coming to public transport for much more of us soon! I'd love to be able to just scan my watch on the Metro tram and buses around here.