Matte, Glare, Anti-glare and Apple being incredibly obtuse.

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by applecultvictim, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. applecultvictim macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 27, 2009
    #1
    Yes this is another matte screen thread, if you don't like it get out now, it won't be acceptable if you stay and whine about others whinnying about matte screens. Grow up if you are an adult and learn to be tolerable to people's opinions when they want more choice, if you are not adult, well...wait.

    Yes we like our screens matte, no we are not getting them, yes we ask for merely an option for them.

    I d like to quote engadget here with a very funny line:

    Interestingly a poll here
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=673978
    has matte being 3 times more popular than glossy and more than half more popular than glassy.

    Yet apple is nowhere to be found in matte screens for 13 and 15 inch machines and is forcing users to buy a 17" beast to get their choice.

    This to me is unacceptable. Actually it's not just unacceptable it's by far the worst insensitivity and forcing ones will on public opinion we've seen from apple. And it's not just that they are forcing their opinion it's that the product they are offering has indeed lot of glare by most if not all accounts.

    How can they justify this to people with eye sight issues? To elders? To professionals who choose matte? To people who just don't like the glossy option?

    And we are really not asking for much here, are we? We are not telling them get the iMac matte, or the macbook matte, people are (to start with ) at least asking for the mbp 15" to go matte, instead of having just a single niche product matte for no other reason than forcing people to buy it.

    Apple is a company, but it's also a huge community of people who most offer than not do think different. It's really sad that the company is turning an blind eye to us. They can do their strategies their way, they can displease a lot of people, but when it comes to matters as crucial as sight and visibility they can't just obliterate a product that THE MAJORITY want across the board of their offerings.

    As long as apple keep ignoring the community they gonna get the heat from us until they concede and give us what we rightly want in at least some minimal part of their line up. Everyone take a few moments to voice your opinions there http://www.apple.com/feedback . They will listen.
     
  2. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #2
    The new MB is a classic example of where Apple is selling a laptop that has compromises. No FW800 and no Matte screen option. Yet, they seem to be selling well.

    Until individuals vote with their pockets on a large enough scale, Apple will hesitate the change. Hopefully, if enough individuals provide feedback to Apple's website, we may see changes in the future.
     
  3. Tallest Skil macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

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    #3
    I can't remember the last time a company forced me to buy anything.:confused:

    They no longer sell to these markets, therefore they justify it by saying, "We're not in that market." Apple can't be forced to do anything they don't deem right. They'll never release a MacBook Nano or MacTablet before they see fit.

    Again, are Apple representatives coming to your friends' houses in the night, binding and gagging them, and then dragging them to the nearest Apple Store?

    They can do their strategies their way, they can displease a lot of people, but when it comes to matters as crucial as sight and visibility they can't...[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, they can. They're in charge.

    Has this been proven so in the larger scope of all Mac users and not just the MacRumors crowd who, while they represent the more intelligent side of Apple's installed user-base, are far more skewed to a professional mindset than that of the normal consumer?

    I'm invalidating the worth of your poll, really. It matters to the people on here, but in the general sense, the consumer will buy whatever is out there and they don't. really. care. about things like this.

    An interesting phrase with no meaning whatsoever.

    Having said all this: I prefer matte. I cannot see myself buying another computer in the MacBook family without a matte screen. Things may change, glossy may become "right", but I support having the option of both.

    I said what I said up there to show the glaring errors in your argument that you'll want to fix before submitting your complaint (and calling on others to do the same) here: http://www.apple.com/feedback for the product lines in question. Apple will not listen to an argument rife with generalizations and poor word choice. You have to think like a lawyer if you want Apple to do anything beyond what they currently deem to be correct.

    Example: When working on the Macintosh 128k, an engineer recalled Steve Jobs' mindset (that, if I remember correctly, he uses to this day) in that if you and he are arguing and your idea is correct or your concept is better than his, he will realize this mid-argument and change his position to be yours, claiming that he had never thought otherwise. According to this engineer, he was a master at it, and the phrase Reality Distortion Field was coined.

    This has shown to be true several times in later Apple history. There is a picture of a young Steve in a leather jacket standing outside IBM's headquarters giving the logo the finger (I have this and can post it if you wish).

    And what processors eventually wound up in Macs?

    And then while the PowerPC chip blazed past the Pentium line, trash talk abounded about Intel.

    And what processors eventually wound up in Macs?
     
  4. applecultvictim thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    hey sushi, I agree here, I have taken the feedback avenue too, and I will update my first post to urge others to do so too. I have to point out however that firewire might be a very very serious omission for a lot of people but I would consider it very secondary to the matte screen...btw I can't believe how people buy these things they are killing their eyes the mbs are unbelievably full of glare. But like you said, they "seem" to be selling well. We don't know how well they are selling. A lot of people are still buying the whitebook from what I hear which is way much cheaper, has firewire and a better screen, so that factors in the sales of the mbs. I don't know what sales they would have had if the whitebook was out of the equation.

    Still, when they conceded with the 17" mbp saying that their high end customers don't like glossy they must have gotten a lot, lot of negative reaction to come out and just say it in public no more no less that people just don't like the glassy screens, instead of just conceding and changing it silently.


    Tallest skill I have followed some of your postings here, some of them are decent, but more often than not you seem to miss the point and you think your opinions are clever but they are so very unwise to the point of them being inane. Also, if you want to talk here drop the attitude you have that you assume the other party doesn't know what they are saying. I can't recall me asking you to comment on my word choices, did I ? As is and with the attitude you have I find it very displeasing and unproductive to reply to you. It doesn't help that you have no arguments either. What do you me to reply to? That "apple isn't forcing me to buy?" Yes they are if I am a fan and a longtime user who's become accustomed to their products and they don't give me the option I want, an option that is rudimentary btw, no one is talking about the "mactablet" here...way to completely misconstrue and argument... This is kids staff...As for they "yes they can they are in charge", of course they can that's why they rushed to offer a matte option for the 17" because they...couldn't... and the public voted with their opinions that they couldn't and so they changed gears...so much for your argument that they can do whatever they choose irregardless of public opinion. But like I said despite your not bringing any real argument to the table I am not going to reply to any further posts of yours because of your attitude that is terribly rude.
     
  5. Tallest Skil macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

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    #5
    I apologize that you read my post incorrectly. No air of superiority nor rudeness was meant.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't matter. Poor word choice allows for an argument to be torn apart fairly easily. Again, you have to think like a lawyer; create as few loopholes as possible.

    This part of the argument would be better served if you would say what programs you use on your Mac. There are VERY few programs that require the end-user to use a Mac. Fan, nothing. Longtime user, nothing. Neither of those are concrete arguments.

    Forgive me, there are few analogies to this outside of sports...

    Say you have a favorite team (of whatever sport). You have always cheered for them. Say every single member of the team is found to be using steroids. People will stop cheering for them until they change their ways.

    In the computer world, it's known as "If you don't like it, don't buy it." or "Vote with your wallet." If purchases of the MacBook Pro plummet, Apple will attempt to determine the cause. If they find it to be a lack of a matte option, they'll add the matte option. The EXACT same thing happened with the launch of the first 15" MacBook Pro. Apple cut FireWire 800 out of it. People threw a FIT, so they returned it. By FIT, I don't mean "kept on buying them regardless and complained on forums", I mean professionals just didn't buy the new MacBook Pro and either bought the last PowerBook G4 or just didn't upgrade at all.

    I'm very surprised that you missed the point I was making with mentioning the MacTablet.

    I am going to respond to this as though you were being sarcastic, as that is how I am reading it. Please forgive and correct me if I am wrong.

    If Apple offering a matte option on the 17" MacBook Pro was a result of people complaining about the lack of a matte option on the 15", they would have also added a matte option as BTO on the 15" at the same time.

    Similarly, if Apple was going to listen to people about the exclusion of FireWire 400, they had three months between the release of the 15" and the 17" to put FireWIre 400 on the 17". They didn't.
     
  6. allmIne macrumors 6502a

    allmIne

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    #6
    You're very rude, aren't you? It's nice to be nice.

    How did you come to that conclusion?
     
  7. Zedsdead185 macrumors 6502

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    UK
    #7
    I disagree. If it wasn't from complaints then why did they bother going to the trouble of adding it to the 17" anyway?

    As a mac user who NEEDs a matte option (graphic design/communication and photography) I also find it very disappointing that they only give the option for the 17".

    My guesses for why its only on the 17" at the moment are:
    1- They assume that anyone who would need the option are successful professionals who would be willing to fork out so much money on such a large laptop. Or that they are all more than happy to be carrying a 17" beast around with them.
    2- They are forcing people who are shopping for a new mac laptop to spend more money on the 17" as it is the designers only real choice. (and this is what the OP meant by forcing. Not dragging people out and making them spend money. Its just a strange occurrence that sometimes people need a new computer, need it to be portable, not too pricey and be compatible with all designer software that you have previously purchased, and that the 17" MBP is the only option. Thats what he means by forcing.)
    3- That apple are actually planning on releasing the matte option on future updates. which they should. All MBP's have a 'Pro' on the end of the name for a reason. They are aimed at the professional market. Give them Professional BTO options for gods sake.

    And sorry tallest skil, I don't mean to cause any conflicts on here, but I also find you kinda rude in many of your posts. I think patronizing is the most fitting word.
     
  8. Tallest Skil macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

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    #8
    I agree with these points, save for some of the second. Matte is needed for proper color representation, correct? No self-respecting professional is going to use a LAPTOP screen at 1440x900 for work in Aperture or Final Cut Studio 2. They'll buy an external monitor, matte, rendering the argument moot entirely.

    You're reading my posts too far, then. False kindness hiding a feeling of superiority, yes?

    Stop before the superiority. I assure you that I never post with the intention of feeling superior.

    Unless it's on something that can be easily MRoogled ("buy now or wait?", "how can I get music off of iPod", and the hundred or so other questions that you only ask if you feel like breaking the forum rules). :eek: I'm a little less kind there, I guess.
     
  9. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

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    #9
    Laptop screens are generally NOT made for color critical work.

    Get 17" or 15" refurb or go to www.apple.com/feedback
     
  10. Zedsdead185 macrumors 6502

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    UK
    #10
    Yes, glossy saturates the colours too much during any design work, and so it is much harder to get an accurate representation of what the finished product or print will look. I find this a shame because in truth i like Glossy when it comes to recreational things like watching a movie or playing a game, but its just not an option for me when it comes to my design.

    Yeah, thats good to know. I was worried in case you took it the wrong way. I always try to take these things with a pinch of salt anyway. Emotions and intentions don't always transfer correctly in plain text over the internet. I've seen way to many posts that have ended up in arguments that shouldn't have happened. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Zedsdead185 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Yes this is understandable. When at home an external screen is used for higher resolutions. But for me (and possibly several others) portability is still needed, and obviously an external monitor is not very portable. Hence it does not render the argument moot entirely. If i bought a laptop to use only at home plugged into an external, then i wouldn't have bought a laptop, i would have bought a mac pro. But I don't, i use it at home as equally as i use it on the move. Taking my work to a printing studio for example. For my work i mainly use Photoshop and indesign, and although i would like a better resolution for on the move, it does for what i need when i'm not a home. This would change completely if i was to use a glossy screen, and cut my working time by half.

    I'm just hoping they do add matte screens again by the time I need a new macbook pro.
     
  12. iBlue macrumors Core

    iBlue

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    #12
    I really resent that Apple keeps taking choice away from the consumer. Or they offer the choice at a ridiculous price/unneeded spec. I think these are very unwise decisions but apparently they think they can get away with it, and so far they are. :rolleyes:
     
  13. bossxii macrumors 68000

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    #13
    @OP

    While you have some valid points, I think the only way Apple will make any change to their line is if the sales of Matte surpass the Glassy or their sales actually drop off on the new models and/or returns and complaints of glassy screens stick out to them. I think here on MR there is about a 50/50 split of people who like or don't like the new glass screens.

    I enjoy mine and while I am all for options, Apple seems to be a company that plays the "if they build it they will buy it" mentality and have been right for some time. If people are buying the glassy display in mass, I think the profits will speak louder than words.

    Not saying it's right, just stating how I think Apple will view it. Sales increase in a down economy will speak louder than some dedicated Mac fans not liking the glassy screen. I think 3 or 4 so years ago it would be easier task to get opinions heard but instead of a 50/50 split here on Macrumors or any given tech site. The mass public appeal of the iPhone has brought so many consumers to buy MB's and MBP's the percentage of people with issues over the glassy display is getting to be a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall sales. Apple must feel the issue is limited to the more pro user, which is why they have the 17" Matte option. I think Apple considers this where that segment will go (17" route) while the 15" is more of the consumer level machine.

    Good luck with the fight though, I am all for choices and frankly if a matte option sells more computers, makes Apple more money for future R&D better products etc.. I'm all for it. :)
     
  14. The Red Wolf macrumors regular

    The Red Wolf

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    #14
    Anit-Glare! Not matte, sort of glossy with anti-glare... Sexy non the less.

    So... I just ordered a 17" MacBook Pro Anti-Glare. This should be a $49 (and other country equivalent) price on the 15" MacBook Pro and the 13" MacBook. After seeing it in the store there was no contest. I didn't like the idea of the silver bezel, however there is a black strip at the base of the screen and around the bezel which is rubberized which would hold the glass. There is a weight difference between the 17" Glossy and the 17" Anti-glare. As one who wears glasses, any glair above and beyond what my glasses do is annoying. In low light, sure they're beautiful. But after seeing the glowing keyboard reflecting light onto the glossy display I was upset and refused to get a 15" glossy MacBook Pro.

    Fortunately, I need a MacBook Pro 17" for the work I do. 1080p Video editing is impossible on the go with a 15" because of the 900 vertical problem. So I went for it and got a 2.93 GHz, SSD 256, Anti-Glair MacBook Pro 17". I am blissed and have been hitting refresh over and over and over on the status page of my order. There is no way I would ever go with a glossy screen but I do like the sexy black border.

    P.S. It went from 5 business days to 1-3 business days. :D

    My .02 monitory units.
     
  15. mikes70mustang macrumors 68000

    mikes70mustang

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    #15
    It matters to the people on here, but in the general sense, the consumer will buy whatever is out there and they don't. really. care. about things like this.

    I agree, most people dont care. Im going to say the vast majority dont care, or even know many of the things that their computer can do. Most of the people ive talked to at college and where ever, pretty much got a MB or MBP b/c they thought it was "cool" or b/c they hear of the "no virus for mac" thing. I think almost all the people Ive talked to didnt even know they could switch the vid card and save battery on their uni., or that the screen and track pad was glass. MR is a very very small percentage of mac users. This is pretty much a place to find good info, watch people argue in forums, and vent about stuff that most people dont really care about, including apple. O yah, and most people on here dont "need" a mac, or have to have any apple stuff. I think most of the people that complain about this stuff could get a windows machine and be ok. I think this because the people who post this stuff have great enough computer knowledge to avoid viruses, and keep a pc running smooth. Its just easier to maintain a mac
     
  16. brentsg macrumors 68030

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    #16
    I love how you essentially start off with the air or superiority, comment that dissent won't be tolerated in your thread, then start trashing on people... Grow up would seem to be an interesting choice of words for you to use.
     
  17. bossxii macrumors 68000

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    #17
    +1 100% agree, I am one of about 10 to 12 people I work with that have no clue of the capabilities or so called limitations of the UMBP's. Tech forums such as MR are filled with people that are typically better informed and follow technology closely. We are however a very small percentage of the user base. Apple's user base used to have a say in the company as it was more of a cult following, but it's so far beyond that they are simply lost in the sea of cash and profits. Sucks for them but for all the ranting they did to say Apple is better than a PC, well you got part of your wish lol. The public listened and rewarded Apple with HUGE sales increases year over year, the downside to all your efforts, you now are a spec in the crowd.

    Good, bad or otherwise, it is what it is.
     
  18. Mark2000 macrumors regular

    Mark2000

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    #18
    +1. I love it when people pretend to be a victim when really they're the bully.
     
  19. fteoath64 macrumors regular

    fteoath64

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    Nov 16, 2008
    #19
    Yeah, Matte is the way to go. My PB G4 HiDef still has the best matte screen to date bar none for a laptop!. Except for the slower CPU, it still has the best design features such as that wonderful keyboard (better than AIR), that fantastic single button click-action (yeah, blows away AIR and ubMBP glass bs).

    Who wants to hear that loud click and silly long travel ?. Firm click with real tactile feedback is what the PB click-button has. These 3 things makes usage just about perfect for me.

    I have the AIR and ubMBP but the PB-G4-HD gets most of the web and writing stuff done with the best experience. The other machines have too much compromises in visual and "feel of hand" in accuracies ...
     
  20. bossxii macrumors 68000

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    #20
    What loud click? Tap to click ftw, never hear it, never use it.
     
  21. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #21
    If you're trying to not be an ass, can you do a better job, or at least be sincere?

    Ta.
     
  22. applecultvictim thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    Did I read your post incorrectly or are you apologizing? If it's the latter ok.

    I feel that they had to concede with the 17" because the pressure was just too much to go with their initial plan of not having any matte across the board, and in time they will concede with the 15" too. I just don't see the firewire analogy here.

    Who did I bully? You obviously don't have me in mind, you think you do. I just said let other people be and let us whine for matte so we can get what we want. No reason to be immature and come here with the usual, oh again the matte thing, and oh stop whining blah blah...I didn't force anyone to read the thread but if they did then they should let us put a point across, I am not asking apple to take away their glassy displays, why should they make it harder for the us on the matte side to put a point across? Live and let live.

    Zed, exactly, thanks for putting the "forcing us" point across much better than I did.

    @bossxii
    points taken, I see what you mean, I d like to remain more optimistic about it.
     
  23. jeremybuff macrumors regular

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    #23
    Way to start off a thread with negativity. Opps, did I just post a useless reply?
     
  24. Freyqq macrumors 68040

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    Dec 13, 2004
    #24
    "selling well" is deceptive in a market with one choice

    if you want a mac laptop at a macbook pricepoint, you have to buy glossy. That argument would make sense if they offered both and glossy sold more...but we have no evidence of this.
     
  25. andrew upstairs macrumors 6502

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    Downtown Los Angeles
    #25
    Well, actually, for the previous generation MacBook Pros, the glossy screens significantly outsold the mattes.

    According to Apple, anyway.

    Don't get me wrong, I would rather have the choice. If I did, I still would have gone with glossy. To each his own.
     

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