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Then how are the M1-equipped MacBooks running circles around the Intel-based ones?
Underpowered relative to what could be, not relative to the earlier generation. I was replying to someone saying the iPP is overpowered with an M1. The iPP doesn’t look overpowered, it looks like it is as powerful as an iPad can be today. The iMac looks like it essentially uses the same logic board as the iPP, albeit with a little extra cooling. The iMac is basically a 24” iPad Pro.

My point was at the end— when Apple releases a chip that more fully exploits the capacity of the desktop form factor, we’ll see a much more powerful iMac.
 
No you don't. And no the MBP is not turning into an iPad. Nevermind mate.
I don’t know…. there’s been a WHOLE lotta people saying that what would make them cheer from here to eternity would be an iPad, with one Thunderbolt port running macOS. I mean, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if a future portable mac used the same pieces/parts as an iPad, it just comes with macOS and you can launch iPadOS apps.

It would be a HUGE savings to Apple… A huge % of the items they ship could be produced from the same assembly line, and macOS developers could check their iOS multi-touch apps without having a separate device. Nope, wouldn’t be surprised if the next MacBook is just an iPad with different software :)
 
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I saw something here yesterday that both the 1TB and 2TB tiers get the 16GB RAM.
Yeah I saw the same, I will still have trouble justifying it since even a 256 GB is usually overkill for me when it comes to iPads. Cloud storage and all that.
 
I don’t know…. there’s been a WHOLE lotta people saying that what would make them cheer from here to eternity would be an iPad, with one Thunderbolt port running macOS. I mean, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if a future portable mac used the same pieces/parts as an iPad, it just comes with macOS and you can launch iPadOS apps.

It would be a HUGE savings to Apple… A huge % of the items they ship could be produced from the same assembly line, and macOS developers could check their iOS multi-touch apps without having a separate device. Nope, wouldn’t be surprised if the next MacBook is just an iPad with different software :)
That would not be a MacBook Pro being an iPad. What you're saying is an iPad running macOS.
 
That would not be a MacBook Pro being an iPad. What you're saying is an iPad running macOS.
More accurately, something that “looks” like an iPad running macOS. iPads would still ship with and only run iPadOS. MacBook Pro’s would look like an iPad, but ships with macOS (and could have macOS reinstalled). Maybe even charge a bit more for the feature.

I think that’s likely the only way the “Mac” will continue as a separate thing as sales continue to fall.
 
There's no reason at all that the iPad Pro couldn't become the holy grail that Microsoft has been chasing for decades: the everything computer. When you're using it as a tablet, it's an iOS device. Dock it and it becomes a macOS device. I'd buy that right now, this very second.

The only question is, how long will we need to wait? Maybe Apple will announce iPad Pro OS switching at WWDC and include it in the next betas of macOS and iPadOS.

Unfortunately for the public, this would mean waiting until Autumn for the official release.

I really hope Apple is planning to do this!
 
The only question is, how long will we need to wait? Maybe Apple will announce iPad Pro OS switching at WWDC and include it in the next betas of macOS and iPadOS.

Unfortunately for the public, this would mean waiting until Autumn for the official release.

I really hope Apple is planning to do this!
The more I think of it as some new device that’s physically like an iPad device.. natively from the ground up, running macOS… BUT, just like a macOS laptop, can launch and run an iOS simulator, the more that feels like the most efficient final state of mobile macOS to me. Since they’re using the same panel as the iPad, I wouldn’t think they’d disable that functionality. It’d still be there, but would macOS be updated to support touch fully? I’m foggy on that.
 
The more I think of it as some new device that’s physically like an iPad device.. natively from the ground up, running macOS… BUT, just like a macOS laptop, can launch and run an iOS simulator, the more that feels like the most efficient final state of mobile macOS to me. Since they’re using the same panel as the iPad, I wouldn’t think they’d disable that functionality. It’d still be there, but would macOS be updated to support touch fully? I’m foggy on that.

I think it would need to be dual boot, or virtualized at a minimum but with only one personality or the other available at any given time. MacOS and iOS/iPadOS have different strengths coming from different implementations down very deep in the stack. Trying to merge them, or to relegate iOS to a captive environment within MacOS would undermine a lot of the iOS benefits (simplicity, security, etc).

Maybe user perception will change over time, but I (and I believe many to most) see mobile devices as very different from desktop devices (and I’d consider laptops to be used mostly on “desks”). I don’t want iOS on the desktop, and I don’t want MacOS in a tablet, and I don’t want whatever that mess was when Microsoft tried to unify the UI between the mobile and desktop Windows worlds.

I could see a split personality device, maybe sharing the same file store, meeting a large fraction of my needs though. The only reason I don’t say all is because I anticipate the larger form factor MBPs, iMacs and MacPros to sport higher performance CPUs than the M1 and to better handle sustained loads. So while I’d probably take MacOS in a docked M1 iPP over my current, older, Intel MBP, I probably wouldn’t take it over the upcoming AS range of performance machines.
 
I think it would need to be dual boot
Due Apple’s control of iOS/iPadOS, I doubt that dual boot will ever be in the cards for a device designed to run iOS/iPadOS. For macOS though? Yeah, you could dual boot macOS or Windows, or Linux or whatever you can get to work. It wouldn’t be able to run iPadOS, but would be able to run iPadOS apps without a hitch. Technically, ANYTHING is possible (Samsung has tried it, so has Microsoft), but realistically, it would likely end up something like that.

I only say this because I could see it existing as a distinct machine with a defined narrow purpose that would require very little overhead for Apple to make happen. Better yet, given such a device, Apple wouldn’t have to create the split personality-ness of it, devs would be more than happy to take up that challenge and point you to a github repository to download the required files :)
 
I think it would need to be dual boot, or virtualized at a minimum but with only one personality or the other available at any given time. MacOS and iOS/iPadOS have different strengths coming from different implementations down very deep in the stack. Trying to merge them, or to relegate iOS to a captive environment within MacOS would undermine a lot of the iOS benefits (simplicity, security, etc).

I agree. No merging is necessary. It could go into iPadOS mode automatically when no input devices are connected. When it's docked or connected to a Magic Keyboard it could go into macOS mode. The Files app in iPadOS could have access to some user account folders in macOS.

Both macOS and iPadOS would need to be installed (taking up considerable space, hence the need for plenty of flash storage) but there could be memory and hardware assets shared between OSes to make the transitions as seamless as possible. There would also be a bit of a hit on memory requirements having both OSes always available, but that is small price to pay for flexibility.
 
Plus, since iOS and iPadOS ask you where you want to save items, just create a Downloads folder (on the phone and/or iCloud) and move the document later like you would do on a 'real' computer.
I call mine Temp as a reminder to empty it frequently. It’s also a useful stash point for the many seemingly random times you can’t drag/drop a file.
 
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I've been saying it all night: you think it'll be fun and easy using MacOS with a finger? Just right-clicking would be a pain in the ass.

You think Apple is going to force the OS of a different product onto users that may not want it? People dock their iPads and go: "WTF is this?! Where's my stuff? How do you... What happened to my iPad?!"
This is interesting. It makes me think about how they’ve sort of mastered different inputs already. I can, without any hitch, shift between typing, using the trackpad, using my finger, and using an Apple Pencil. And all within the same app or even the same document. I feel reasonably good about their abilities to manage right-clicks.

(not saying it’s happening. I still think the meld comes from being able to run elements of the respective OS, like iPad apps on the MacBook. Just interesting to consider)
 
More accurately, something that “looks” like an iPad running macOS. iPads would still ship with and only run iPadOS. MacBook Pro’s would look like an iPad, but ships with macOS (and could have macOS reinstalled). Maybe even charge a bit more for the feature.

I think that’s likely the only way the “Mac” will continue as a separate thing as sales continue to fall.
Well, I guess you saw the leaks so you know that the next MacBook Pro will definitely "look like"... a MacBook Pro.

Mind you, all really "newer" concepts that Apple develops are for the iPad/iPhone, not the Mac. It's more than likely that it continues to follow the same path.
 
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You can get a cellular external device for your MacBook.
That’s true, but then I’m just adding another device that I need to pack or travel with. iPad already has it built in and my work flow is so comfortable now. I’ve gone live from an iPad with cellular data while doing relief work in a typhoon. My iPad workflow and easy of going live and setting up has just become so much easier with the iPad. I’m not anti MBP, the iPad just works so well for me. I can go from field work, to teaching online to presenting to our board with one device. One thing that needs charged. It’s been a cool experience.
 
Well, I guess you saw the leaks so you know that the next MacBook Pro will definitely "looks" like... a MacBook Pro.

Mind you, all really "newer" concepts that Apple develops are for the iPad/iPhone, not the Mac. It's more than likely that it continues to follow the same path.
Oh, Apple’s currently selling over 15 million macs at the current point, so there’s lots of money coming in to support whatever they spend making the systems. Especially since they’re saving over $100 and more per system that ships with an M1. If that number ever trends downward into the single million digits, that’s when you’re most likely to see what I described come out… but ONLY if Apple’s still even interested in maintaining macOS at that point.
 
This is interesting. It makes me think about how they’ve sort of mastered different inputs already. I can, without any hitch, shift between typing, using the trackpad, using my finger, and using an Apple Pencil. And all within the same app or even the same document. I feel reasonably good about their abilities to manage right-clicks.

(not saying it’s happening. I still think the meld comes from being able to run elements of the respective OS, like iPad apps on the MacBook. Just interesting to consider)
I think Apple has been really working hard on how to make iPadOS more Mac-like, as in add Mac features in an optimized-for-touch kind of way. Their cursor/trackpad implementation speaks to this.

This is why I believe that macOS will never be on the iPad, and that the OSes will not be merged.

It'll be unnecessary, because you'll be able to do everything you can do on the Mac in a way that makes sense for a fingertip-based OS instead of a cursor-based one.

In a way, I think iPadOS is really the successor to OS X (even if it it's not meant to supplant it...yet).
 
Oh, Apple’s currently selling over 15 million macs at the current point, so there’s lots of money coming in to support whatever they spend making the systems. Especially since they’re saving over $100 and more per system that ships with an M1. If that number ever trends downward into the single million digits, that’s when you’re most likely to see what I described come out… but ONLY if Apple’s still even interested in maintaining macOS at that point.
Apple will maintain macOS. One good reason, but not limited to, is the Mac Pro. Say we see a M3 chip in 3 years in an iPad Pro (or a M4 in 4 years, yo get the idea), then Apple will still be able to put 10 of them in a Mac Pro. So having a Mac Pro will still be beneficial to the category of people interested by such computers. And on such computers, you need macOS, full stop.

Again, for quite some time now Apple's spirit has been to bring new stuffs to the iPad, not to the Mac. What I mean is that we see things like "a new keyboard" brought to the iPad, "a new mouse support" brought to the iPad, but we do not see "a touch panel" brought to the Mac. That trend will continue and that's why the Mac range is not going to "iPad-ify" itself (no tablet mode with detachable screen, no touch panel, not running iOS altogether).

If, and that's a big if, some merging/dual boot has to happen it's more likely that it happen on the iPad side, i.e. the iPad Pro running macOS, not a Mac running iOS/iPadOS. That's pretty obvious and simple: an iPad Pro already has everything to run macOS (now, with a good mouse support) whereas a Mac has nothing to run iOS (starting with a touch interface).

IMHO, none of them will happen although I wish the iPad Pro could run macOS when in desktop mode (keyboard + mouse + external display). Maybe something a la VMWare?
 
Apple will maintain macOS. One good reason, but not limited to, is the Mac Pro. Say we see a M3 chip in 3 years in an iPad Pro (or a M4 in 4 years, yo get the idea), then Apple will still be able to put 10 of them in a Mac Pro.
I’m pretty sure some folks felt that Apple would DEFINITELY maintain the Apple II. I mean, the Mac didn’t even have any serious software for “real work” :) When they got to that point of replacing one with the other, they never made it so that the Mac, natively, would run Apple II operating system. You had to purchase a compatibility card. That’d be an interesting idea. EVERYONE doesn’t get it, only folks that buy the additional hardware (which basically ends up being a thin mini that plugs into the wall and provides power and a data connection to the iPad via Thunderbolt).

Yeah, it’s silly :D And, I’m assuming that the iPad form factor will continue to change over time such that it’s a more appropriate replacement for the Mac Pro. I mean, we don’t have to worry about graphic cards anymore… what other slot solutions other than AfterBurner (which can be built into the motherboard which would make the PRO difference) are required for 80-90% of the folks buying Pro’s?
 
I’m pretty sure some folks felt that Apple would DEFINITELY maintain the Apple II. I mean, the Mac didn’t even have any serious software for “real work” :)
Mmmm... not sure I understood correctly. You mean that there are no pro-oriented softwares for "real work" on the Mac nowadays?

And, I’m assuming that the iPad form factor will continue to change over time such that it’s a more appropriate replacement for the Mac Pro. I mean, we don’t have to worry about graphic cards anymore… what other slot solutions other than AfterBurner (which can be built into the motherboard which would make the PRO difference) are required for 80-90% of the folks buying Pro’s?
As I said, even if in the future an iPad Pro equipped with say one M4 chip can handle a 2h-long 8K video export in 15min with HDR and all the goodies, it'll still appeal to professionals to be able to the same operation in 1min only with a Mac Pro equipped with 15 M4 chips.
Unless we can instant thanos-snap every task possible on an iPad Pro, there will be room for a Mac Pro in Apple's line-up, imho.
 
Mmmm... not sure I understood correctly. You mean that there are no pro-oriented softwares for "real work" on the Mac nowadays?
No, when the Mac was released, folks looked at it as an expensive toy because it didn’t have a lot of important business apps. Even a year after it released, it still lacked a lot of software folks needed to run their businesses. That eventually changed, but, at the time, I’m sure there were people that were thinking that Apple would NEVER sunset the Apple II! I mean, the Apple II was monumentally important to them… until all the right apps were created for the Mac. Some people continued to use the Apple II because they were familiar with it, but it’s time had come. Same for macOS eventually.

As I said, even if in the future an iPad Pro equipped with say one M4 chip can handle a 2h-long 8K video export in 15min with HDR and all the goodies, it'll still appeal to professionals to be able to the same operation in 1min only with a Mac Pro equipped with 15 M4 chips.
I was inferring it before, but, more clearly, if iPadOS, as a brand, becomes attached to a what we would today consider a tower type device with 15 M4 chips that runs the iPadOS version of Final Cut Pro and other, by that time, professional iPadOS apps (like Logic Pro, etc.) why does there need to be a macOS? They could keep the iPadOS name or give the OS a name that doesn’t sound very Paddy at all!

The things that are currently considered shortcomings for iPadOS are software problems…that can be resolved by software solutions. Apple has clearly shown a lot of focus in incrementally improving iPadOS, gradually bringing more and more previously macOS features to iPadOS. If they were to stop today and never improve iPadOS further, then macOS would have a future. As it is, there will come a time when iPadOS will be feature complete enough that folks just won’t have a driving need for a system running macOS. Those that DO have a driving need for macOS… well, they’ll be just like the folks that have a driving need for 32-bit macOS today, they’ll just keep using the system they have in their possession.
 
I guess the latest published article MacRumors "Apple's Greg Joswiak: No Plans to Merge Mac and iPad" clarifies the situation.

Let's be clear, I'm not saying there's no sense or good ideas in what you're stating. I'm just saying: "unfortunately it's not gonna happen" and this was yet another time confirmed by Apple in the above quoted article.

I was inferring it before, but, more clearly, if iPadOS, as a brand, becomes attached to a what we would today consider a tower type device with 15 M4 chips that runs the iPadOS version of Final Cut Pro and other, by that time, professional iPadOS apps (like Logic Pro, etc.) why does there need to be a macOS?
Plenty acceptable responses to this. I'll just write some.
- System admin controlling their iMac Pro computers need admin tools, a terminal, so on so forth
- iPadOS means Apple store, on macOS you can install any apps. That's both mandatory for tech companies developing such apps and people who use them
- macOS is an open system meaning you can tweak it, change it to some extend, build bridges between apps, etc. whereas iPadOS is a sandboxed system where apps can't communicate directly with each other
- macOS is a windowed system, you can have different windows open at the same time to multitask and this is crucial for many situations, iPadOS is not even close to achieve such multitasking performance
- to some extend you can bring some changes to macOS itself; for instance macOS ships with a certain version of a tool X, but you can change that or make it use another tool instead that does the same job. You can add some core functionalities to the system that were not already present initially. Can't do that on iPadOS.

Thing is, you could probably implement all these examples in iPadOS, but by doing so you would completely go against iPadOS' nature. You'd need to rewrite from scratch to make it something it was never meant for to begin with.

For example, iPadOS is meant to protect users and one thing it does to achieve this is "sandboxing" which is the exact opposite of what macOS allows. In other words, what I'm trying to say is that iPadOS and macOS are not only different at the moment, they are opposite one to each other on some aspects. This makes it impossible to conciliate both at the same time.

The things that are currently considered shortcomings for iPadOS are software problems…that can be resolved by software solutions.
Following what I've just written, some shortcomings are not to be considered as problems. "it's not a bug, it's a feature." This sentence sounds as "a good excuse" at times, but it is also true at other times. There's no "solution" to a feature, it just is.

Apple has clearly shown a lot of focus in incrementally improving iPadOS, gradually bringing more and more previously macOS features to iPadOS.
Yup and that is actually what will go on happening imho: Apple will bring pro softwares like Logic, FCP, etc. to iPadOS and will encourage other companies to do so/keep doing so. Adobe PS is one example, I wouldn't be surprised if in X months/years Photoshop on iPadOS has 100% the same functionality as its macOS counterpart, even one unique code base for both. I can already hear you (or some) saying: but what's the use of macOS then?
=> It's not just a question of having the same apps, the same level of apps on both macOS and iPadOS. Both system do not differentiate one from the other from the apps themselves, but from the environment on which these apps are running. That's the key difference.

Hope that help you or others who are not too much in tech aspects/deep OS functionalities.
 
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Plenty acceptable responses to this. I'll just write some.
These are ALL software related. Software problems are resolved with Software solutions. There are ways to resolve EVERY one of those Apple feels ANY of those features are important for the future of whatever iPadOS becomes. If Apple wants it to be, it’ll be. :) I mean, just a few years ago, there wasn’t even a file manager of any kind for iPadOS….

For example:
Before Catalina, one of the items on your list could have been
- macOS is needed to be able to run 32-bit applications.

That was seen as unimportant to Apple and, as a result, it’s gone. To be sure, the people that DEPENDED on that? They are gone, too. Apple absolutely lost customers. BUT, still, they did it. (An interesting side benefit? It’s MUCH easier to port iPadOS code to macOS and vice versa.) When Apple sunsets macOS, just like when they sunset the Apple II, there will be those that will say it’s incredibly short sighted and they will decline as a company as a result. But, Apple’ll be fine because they’d have been preparing macOS’s replacement the whole time!

Just like when the Mac was first introduced, it was REALLY hard for people to see how that toy could POSSIBLY replace the Apple II. I mean, it doesn’t even have slots! How can it be considered a serious computer?? And now, it’s REALLY hard to see the current limitations of the iPad and imagine how, in any way, it could replace a Mac. I mean, it doesn’t even have windows!
 
These are ALL software related. Software problems are resolved with Software solutions. There are ways to resolve EVERY one of those Apple feels ANY of those features are important for the future of whatever iPadOS becomes.
My examples were not software problems. So, there are not meant to be resolved. There were software choices. Apple made some choices for both macOS and iPadOS and they differ from one another. You cannot always have both at the same time, but that doesn't mean that they are problems per se.

If you decide to make an OS (iPadOS) that runs sandboxed apps, well there are sandboxed (duh!). That's not the same as an open, non-restricted OS (macOS). Technically, you can change this behaviour in one of the OS so that it can run both sandboxed apps and non-sandboxed apps. Of course, it's doable and I never wrote the opposite. But by doing so, it's no longer the original spirit of the OS. In that example, Apple wants to keep iPadOS running sandboxed apps; again and again: it's not a problem to solve, it's a choice they made for this OS and they want to stick with it. Consequently, for those in need of non-sandboxed apps, they are kindly invited to use macOS that allows such a behaviour.

Too many people still think: "it's a software, so we can do anything we want, right?" whereas nobody complains that we cannot turn a hammer into a screw driver. Sure, software dev gives us more latitude, but almost 20 years in software dev taught me that the answer is: "no, you cannot do anything you want, there are consequences and some of them are contradictory with the initial intent".

Anyways, I think it's kinda pointless to elaborate more. Apple once again said that they have no plan to merge iPadOS and macOS.
 
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Anyways, I think it's kinda pointless to elaborate more. Apple once again said that they have no plan to merge iPadOS and macOS.
For good reason, too. Because, they already have an idea on when they’ll have the features in place they want their iPad ecosystem to have prior to sun setting macOS!
 
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