MBA 2018–NOOO! Keyboard failed...

[Ghost31]

Yes, the link i put in my previous post. Also there was someone from the Wall Street Journal that made a video about it. I understand what you are saying, i'm just not sure that the issue isn't there. If it were overblown why would so many people be posting on the forum that's dedicated to the keyboard issue? there are a number of pages about it.

I just looked up general reviews and you are right, most people are positive about both the Macbook Pro and the Macbook Air 2018. A lot seem to like both the Air and the Macbook Pro.

There were a crap ton more pages about the white spot issue on the iPad Pro 10.5. Like....tonssss. I see you over there so I’m sure you’ve seen it. There are literally 32 pages of people talking about it and how often it happens with new people chiming in all the time about how they were affected. I know I was! (But did I swear off iPads forever? Nah) https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/bright-spot-on-ipad-pro-10-5-screen.2115037/

contrast that with...what are we at? 8 pages on the MacBook Air keyboard and most responses aren’t even from people actually experiencing the issue? Most just seem to be bandwagoning like you are. Macs sell what 5 million a quarter? 20 million a year? I’d expect a hell of a lot more failures noted in threads like that. New people popping up everyday. And if this is a critical design flaw, then everybody should experience it right? Especially when people are looking for a flaw SO hard (being paranoid) with respect to their laptops.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your position man. It’s safe and as a consumer, I get it. It’s hard to ignore crap like this when the media is telling you something and all these warning bells go off. I had the same feeling when I was younger. The older I’ve gotten, the better I’ve gotten at filtering out noise and BS. Problem is being too “safe” can rob you off some great experiences. I’m the king of regret. Getting older, there are so many things I regret not doing because I listened to the wrong people. If I had to do it again, I would’ve taken more chances in life with a lot of different things. My MacBook Air 2018 I use every single day and love every minute of it. If I had given too much weight to what people online are saying, I wouldn’t have a year of great experiences with it.

 

[Dave245]

There were a crap ton more pages about the white spot issue on the iPad Pro 10.5. Like....tonssss. I see you over there so I’m sure you’ve seen it. There are literally 32 pages of people talking about it and how often it happens with new people chiming in all the time about how they were affected. I know I was! (But did I swear off iPads forever? Nah) https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/bright-spot-on-ipad-pro-10-5-screen.2115037/

contrast that with...what are we at? 8 pages on the MacBook Air keyboard and most responses aren’t even from people actually experiencing the issue? Most just seem to be bandwagoning like you are. Macs sell what 5 million a quarter? 20 million a year? I’d expect a hell of a lot more failures noted in threads like that. New people popping up everyday. And if this is a critical design flaw, then everybody should experience it right? Especially when people are looking for a flaw SO hard (being paranoid) with respect to their laptops.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your position man. It’s safe and as a consumer, I get it. It’s hard to ignore crap like this when the media is telling you something and all these warning bells go off. I had the same feeling when I was younger. The older I’ve gotten, the better I’ve gotten at filtering out noise and BS. Problem is being too “safe” can rob you off some great experiences. I’m the king of regret. Getting older, there are so many things I regret not doing because I listened to the wrong people. If I had to do it again, I would’ve taken more chances in life with a lot of different things. My MacBook Air 2018 I use every single day and love every minute of it. If I had given too much weight to what people online are saying, I wouldn’t have a year of great experiences with it.

I get the point you are making, it's not a bad point either. I never had a problem with any Apple product including the Macbook Pro 2011 that i loved using, it was a great machine until it ran it's course and died last year. That was until my 2017 iPad Pro played up after around 16 months (the issue i have written about a few times on the forum so i won't post the details here).

My 2012 iMac is still working great, my point is that i do prefer Mac's for this reason (along with preferring MacOS). At this point my stance is i'm going to wait and see what happens at WWDC, IF we get a new Macbook Pro i'm going to hit the buy button rather than waiting until they possibly update the Air again (i can't it for a while since it was updated in October 2018 with a BIG update).

I do wonder how many Mac's Apple sell, and what the failure rate is. They claim is it only a small number that are having issues, however the tech press don't seem to agree with that. Even a few Yotuubers have jumped on the issue. Only Apple know the real figures at this point.

 

[Ghost31]

I get the point you are making, it's not a bad point either. I never had a problem with any Apple product including the Macbook Pro 2011 that i loved using, it was a great machine until it ran it's course and died last year. That was until my 2017 iPad Pro played up after around 16 months (the issue i have written about a few times on the forum so i won't post the details here).

My 2012 iMac is still working great, my point is that i do prefer Mac's for this reason (along with preferring MacOS). At this point my stance is i'm going to wait and see what happens at WWDC, IF we get a new Macbook Pro i'm going to hit the buy button rather than waiting until they possibly update the Air again (i can't it for a while since it was updated in October 2018 with a BIG update).

I do wonder how many Mac's Apple sell, and what the failure rate is. They claim is it only a small number that are having issues, however the tech press don't seem to agree with that. Even a few Yotuubers have jumped on the issue. Only Apple know the real figures at this point.

I’d suspect the failure rate is fairly small. We’ve seen when they screw up big and how they react and they aren’t reacting like that. The statement they made really gave me the feeling that Tim was like “hey. At lot of people are talking about it so we should say something. But the failure rate IS low so let’s make sure to drive that point home”. You tubers and these fake “tech journalists” that make money off clicks and controversy were raising a stink.

My question is if apple updates alllll their MacBooks this year BUT they still have the 3rd gen butterfly, will you upgrade? Will you jump in and have this experience for yourself and see what happens? Or continue waiting

 

[Dave245]

My question is if apple updates alllll their MacBooks this year BUT they still have the 3rd gen butterfly, will you upgrade? Will you jump in and have this experience for yourself and see what happens? Or continue waiting

IF Apple update the MacBooks and they were to still have the 3rd gen keyboard, i would upgrade! however i would buy Apple Care+ just to be safe. I can't keep waiting year after year. My cut off point is this year. I'm hoping we see new Macbook Pro's soon. EVEN if the Macbook Pro's are not the rumoured 16" with a new design and they just give a spec bump this year, i would get a 13" Macbook Pro (provided that's updated before the Air).

 

[Dave245]

I’d suspect the failure rate is fairly small. We’ve seen when they screw up big and how they react and they aren’t reacting like that. The statement they made really gave me the feeling that Tim was like “hey. At lot of people are talking about it so we should say something. But the failure rate IS low so let’s make sure to drive that point home”. You tubers and these fake “tech journalists” that make money off clicks and controversy were raising a stink.

My question is if apple updates alllll their MacBooks this year BUT they still have the 3rd gen butterfly, will you upgrade? Will you jump in and have this experience for yourself and see what happens? Or continue waiting

Just to pick up on the point i made yesterday about videos and things i've seen online in regards to the butterfly keyboard. Here are a few videos from different people

These videos are from The Wall Street journal, Unbox Therapy and Louise Rossmann

I'm not sure if these guys are biased? i don't see what they would have to gain by it but they all seem to agree in separate videos about the keyboard issues.

 

[Ghost31]

Just to pick up on the point i made yesterday about videos and things i've seen online in regards to the butterfly keyboard. Here are a few videos from different people

These videos are from The Wall Street journal, Unbox Therapy and Louise Rossmann

I'm not sure if these guys are biased? i don't see what they would have to gain by it but they all seem to agree in separate videos about the keyboard issues.

I’m familiar with all of them! I studied the subject when I was making orders for large amounts of product.

All of them have incentive to exaggerate issues. Unbox therapy dude is notorious for his criticisms of apple and those videos tend to get more clicks than others. You tubers I have personally mentored do this: they have access to all the analytics on what people click on from what region of the country and what demographic to cater to.

I remember recently one of these guys went on a long rant about the keyboard and vowed to switch to windows and did a video on his “switch” but one of his friends outed him by accident and basically admitted he still uses and loves MacBooks and that it was “all for tv”. There are no consequences in the you tube world for lying.

That’s one aspect. On the other hand, some DO have an issue, but will also do an entire video sensationalizing it.

A great case study is like I told you: reviews. They are real world input from actual users and like we talked about yesterday, the reviews aren’t reflecting the kind of huge problem YouTube videos are talking about!

You look at the issue in summary; the new MacBooks have a serious design defect whereas debris gets in the keyboard and screws it up. And it’s so serious the likelihood of experiencing it is high.

Ok. That’s the allegation. So we upon discovering this, would expect to see TONS of reviews from angry customers numbers in the hundreds if not thousands. And same here. This is a small community where nerds like us talk about crap nobody else would even care about. Why are we seeing so few instances of the keyboard issue here? Why does the iPad white spot issue raise a bigger stink than the keyboard one? Because we don’t see YouTube videos focusing on it with media publications joining in.

It’s all a big circus. It should only take watches the news for a little while and seeing how wrong they got “X” situation to understand how off people can be.

We have seen from car recalls, home appliance defects and other situations the response when a huge issue occurs. This doesn’t match it. Jesus I just scrolled up and I can’t believe how much I rambled on. I probably lost everybody in the first sentence anyway lol

 

[sracer]

I completely understand where you are coming from as I use a laptop for work, but in reality I think this can happen with any laptop. I’ve had plenty of keyboards go in the past it’s not unusual, especially with heavy use.

Your belief aside, do you have any data to show that this HAS happened with ANY laptop to any extent that is happening with the new MBA? Your personal experience may and should form your opinions and decisions, but that doesn't transfer over to generalizations. In other words, anecdotes are not data.

I think expectations with Apple are much higher nowadays, the criticisms are a lot worse on Apple products with far smaller problems then any other product, simply because of the premium they charge which is of course understandable, when you paying a higher price you expecting a far superior equipment.

Expecting a laptop keyboard to not fail (certainly not within the first year) is a high expectation? That's the issue being discussed here... not that the screen is a nanometer off-center. Not that it requires 2 fingers instead of 1 to open the lid.

When was the last time that an issue with an Apple product (that was widely reported in the media) turned out to be a non-issue?

 

[Dave245]

I’m familiar with all of them! I studied the subject when I was making orders for large amounts of product.

All of them have incentive to exaggerate issues. Unbox therapy dude is notorious for his criticisms of apple and those videos tend to get more clicks than others. You tubers I have personally mentored do this: they have access to all the analytics on what people click on from what region of the country and what demographic to cater to.

I remember recently one of these guys went on a long rant about the keyboard and vowed to switch to windows and did a video on his “switch” but one of his friends outed him by accident and basically admitted he still uses and loves MacBooks and that it was “all for tv”. There are no consequences in the you tube world for lying.

I didn’t know that I’m guessing it was the guy from Unbox Therapy, he uploaded a video called “here’s why I’m quitting Apple laptops” that video alone has gotten 4.4 million views .

Louise Rossmann is definitely critical of Apple, sometimes rightfully so but I do get the impression he’s biased. I included his video because it’s one of the few that have been talking about it, he also claims in a separate video that the butterfly keyboard was always doomed to fail as it’s a design flaw. I’m not an engineer or a designer so I can’t say if he’s correct or not.

My point is that there are many people talking about the butterfly keyboard in a negative way, it’s bad press for Apple and you would think that they would want to address it. Maybe we will see a new keyboard in the rumoured 16” MacBook Pro, then and maybe then we can all move on

 

[Martyimac]

I would like to suggest to the doubters of the KB issue that they peruse at least these two threads:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anyone-else-abandoning-ship.2165021/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/gen-3-butterfly-keyboard.2127111/
Both threads are at, or approaching 2000 posts. And while not every post is about a failure, there are plenty there that are.
Once you are tired of that, read these:
https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac-keyboard/
https://www.techrepublic.com/articl...-butterfly-keyboards-at-basecamp-have-failed/
https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/09/macbook-pro-keyboard-problem/
https://www.notebookcheck.net/A-wor...oard-failure-rate-of-30-percent.415595.0.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/app...rody-mocks-apples-butterfly-keyboard-issues-4

There are MANY more articles, not just you-tube click baiters that are posting. This was just a minuscule sampling.

If you still maintain that this isn't a big problem, you are just refusing to open your eyes and mind.

 

[Ghost31]

I would like to suggest to the doubters of the KB issue that they peruse at least these two threads:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anyone-else-abandoning-ship.2165021/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/gen-3-butterfly-keyboard.2127111/
Both threads are at, or approaching 2000 posts. And while not every post is about a failure, there are plenty there that are.
Once you are tired of that, read these:
https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac-keyboard/
https://www.techrepublic.com/articl...-butterfly-keyboards-at-basecamp-have-failed/
https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/09/macbook-pro-keyboard-problem/
https://www.notebookcheck.net/A-wor...oard-failure-rate-of-30-percent.415595.0.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/app...rody-mocks-apples-butterfly-keyboard-issues-4

There are MANY more articles, not just you-tube click baiters that are posting. This was just a minuscule sampling.

If you still maintain that this isn't a big problem, you are just refusing to open your eyes and mind.

I'm going over some of those links you provided. Started with the gen 3 butterfly thread and I think I remember browsing it awhile back. I'm going over it again and 6 pages in and so far its just people arguing back and forth about apple. We aren't seeing a hell of a lot of posts from people actually experiencing the issue. Mostly bandwagoning. But I'm still browsing so we'll see

I just got off a 12 hour shift so I may fall asleep drooling on myself, but curious to know your theory on why user reviews Aren't reflecting the issue? In science we like to have as many data points as we can before putting everything together to paint a full picture. EVERYTHING adds context. I just looked for a quick example by going to Best Buy's website and found 5,000 reviews for the newest MacBook pro's. 98% recommended the product. I then sorted by lowest reviews to see if there were a bunch of people echoing the same issue and I don't see it. I see people complaining their MacBooks get hot, the webcam quality sucks, their MacBooks are freezing too much, the price is crazy expensive and other random things. But if you've followed products for the past few decades, this is the usual stuff you see when a new widely used product is released.

I've also gone to amazon, talked to my co workers and developers about it, looked at data at work about our deployment of our butterfly keyboard equipped Macs and I'm not seeing the sentiment that there's a big issue represented across all these different sectors.

 

[Martyimac]

I'm going over some of those links you provided. Started with the gen 3 butterfly thread and I think I remember browsing it awhile back. I'm going over it again and 6 pages in and so far its just people arguing back and forth about apple. We aren't seeing a hell of a lot of posts from people actually experiencing the issue. Mostly bandwagoning. But I'm still browsing so we'll see

I just got off a 12 hour shift so I may fall asleep drooling on myself, but curious to know your theory on why user reviews Aren't reflecting the issue? In science we like to have as many data points as we can before putting everything together to paint a full picture. EVERYTHING adds context. I just looked for a quick example by going to Best Buy's website and found 5,000 reviews for the newest MacBook pro's. 98% recommended the product. I then sorted by lowest reviews to see if there were a bunch of people echoing the same issue and I don't see it. I see people complaining their MacBooks get hot, the webcam quality sucks, their MacBooks are freezing too much, the price is crazy expensive and other random things. But if you've followed products for the past few decades, this is the usual stuff you see when a new widely used product is released.

I've also gone to amazon, talked to my co workers and developers about it, looked at data at work about our deployment of our butterfly keyboard equipped Macs and I'm not seeing the sentiment that there's a big issue represented across all these different sectors.

I an fully aware of what science likes to have especially as it pertains to data points. I have been aware of this issue for 3 years give or take. What links I provided are, as mentioned, a minuscule sampling of the posts. Take the highest and lowest and toss them out, like I do, and then you can start figuring out that maybe just because your company isn't having any issues, doesn't mean there aren't any.
I know in my gut, and my mind, that there is an issue. Actually not trying to convince you there is a major problem. But I do know it's more than just a "passing phase" like the more recent iPad pro bending issue which peaked then seems to have died off.
Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal, their tech writer, wrote a recent article about the keyboard problem using her problematic keyboard, https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/ It's quite entertaining to read the article with all the instances of the keyboard missing key strokes, etc. Unfortunately I have not been able to read it anymore, seems I have to subscribe now. Maybe I used up my free readings? But here is a twitter feed, read the first post to get an idea of how it looked. https://twitter.com/joannastern/status/1110918646124240898

 

[Scriabin]

Thank you all for a civil discussion on a difficult problem. As a reminder, I've been a loyal Apple user, having bought for my home over a dozen laptops and desktops in the last few years.

Here's an update--went to the Apple store here in Salt Lake City (Fashion Place) to have a stuck "L" key repaired.

The tech 'popped' off the L key, blew air, and 'repaired' the key. They said for me to try it for a while.

However, after bringing this home, it still doesn't work properly. The L key doesn't travel as far anymore, noticeably 'shallower' compared to the keys around it, and if I press the key slightly off center, the "L" key doesn't register. MADDENNING!

Anyway, I'll be headed back to the store later this week. At this point, I'd deeply saddened by Apple. Truly they can't be serious about this. <SIGH>

Will keep all updated....

 

[DJLC]

Anyway, I'll be headed back to the store later this week. At this point, I'd deeply saddened by Apple. Truly they can't be serious about this. <SIGH>

Will keep all updated....

Thanks for sharing! Similar boat here; I'm a tech director for a charter school, and all our staff use Macs. We don't view Windows as an option from an organizational perspective. I got myself this 2018 MacBook Air to test it out before we start replacing our staff's 2015 MBAs, and I'm NOT impressed.

If they don't make a MacBook with a working keyboard in the next year or so, we're likely to switch our staff to Chromebook. I'm already moving the kids over gradually... the TCO compared to an iPad or MacBook makes it a no-brainer. We'd love to keep our staff on macOS, but if I can't get reliable hardware that'll run it...

 

[Scriabin]

DJLC--yes, I also help decide all the computing equipment at the non-profit org that I run with a team. We won't be getting laptops with the current butterfly keyboard for sure; we have purchased two Chromebooks (Acer) at it has worked beautifully and the rest are 2017 MBA's. No issues with the keyboard on those models.

I am just hoping apple gets their act together on this one (or at least facilitate me 'downgrading' to 2017 MBA.).

 

[Ghost31]

This is a nice little thread to read through

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comm...book_pro/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

 

[Dave245]

This is a nice little thread to read through

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comm...book_pro/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

Interesting, but does that not have the same effect as creating a thread that lists the issues people have been having? in that only people who haven't had issues will post in there more than those who have? do you not think it skews the figures a little?

At this point i'm waiting until WWDC, i would be stupid to buy know with WWDC less than 2 weeks away.

 

[Ghost31]

Interesting, but does that not have the same effect as creating a thread that lists the issues people have been having? in that only people who haven't had issues will post in there more than those who have? do you not think it skews the figures a little?

At this point i'm waiting until WWDC, i would be stupid to buy know with WWDC less than 2 weeks away.

Honestly, everything we point to you have to take with a giant grain of salt. It’s all a big salty mess. Although reddit is a little bit more casual than a place like this because it serves more everyday readers and posters whereas we are a more nerdy bunch. Reddit is more of a social network whereas WE are more of a customer support complaints board. So you’d expect to find more complaints over here.

I sympathize with those affected by this issue but when I take all the data points and put them together, I’m not convinced it’s as widespread as people make it seem. With every new gate I’ve always known someone that was affected. Bend gate. Antenna gate. Even the iPad bend gate from last fall I knew of those in the work place that had a bent out of the box pad.

But I try to remind myself when people comment all angrily about how “it’s totally a real issue” how pissed I’d be if it affected me too.

 

[Dave245]

Honestly, everything we point to you have to take with a giant grain of salt. It’s all a big salty mess. Although reddit is a little bit more casual than a place like this because it serves more everyday readers and posters whereas we are a more nerdy bunch. Reddit is more of a social network whereas WE are more of a customer support complaints board. So you’d expect to find more complaints over here.

I sympathize with those affected by this issue but when I take all the data points and put them together, I’m not convinced it’s as widespread as people make it seem. With every new gate I’ve always known someone that was affected. Bend gate. Antenna gate. Even the iPad bend gate from last fall I knew of those in the work place that had a bent out of the box pad.

But I try to remind myself when people comment all angrily about how “it’s totally a real issue” how pissed I’d be if it affected me too.

I've never used reddit so i didn't know that. I was surprised to see the amount of people who were saying that they have had Macbook Pros since 2016 and 2017 without any issues. Some say that they use the keyboard all the time, some say they don't.
What i did notice was the amount of people who seem to like the butterfly keyboard (issues aside), if reddit is more of a general consumer site, it seems that general consumers are more happy with the butterfly keyboard than people on this forum.


for me personally IF WWDC comes and Apple announce new MacBooks, i will be buying one. The only precaution i can take is to also buy Apple Care+. I hope we see new Macs soon. My Macs are dated now and in need of updating, my 2011 Macbook Pro is dead (as of late last year) and my 2012 iMac is old. I would buy now but it would be stupid considering WWDC is less than 2 weeks away. However the 13" Macbook Pro or Air (whichever one is updated first at this point) are calling me.

 

[sracer]

Looks like Apple is expanding the keyboard repair program. I don't know why they would since we're being told by the Apple faithful that there isn't a problem.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/21/...-keyboard-problems-apple-repair-new-materials

"Last but certainly not least, Apple has tweaked the design of its butterfly keyboard again. Apple says that it is using “new materials” in the switch mechanism that should significantly reduce the occurrence of double and missed key presses."

They're tweaking the keyboard to reduce, not eliminate the occurrence of double and missed key presses.

 

[Mainsail]

Looks like Apple is expanding the keyboard repair program. I don't know why they would since we're being told by the Apple faithful that there isn't a problem.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/21/...-keyboard-problems-apple-repair-new-materials

"Last but certainly not least, Apple has tweaked the design of its butterfly keyboard again. Apple says that it is using “new materials” in the switch mechanism that should significantly reduce the occurrence of double and missed key presses."

They're tweaking the keyboard to reduce, not eliminate the occurrence of double and missed key presses.

Will 2018 repaired keyboards get the latest "improved" mechanism??
[doublepost=1558462252][/doublepost]Maybe this answers my question:

"The new keyboard design on the 2019 MacBook Pro is still classified as "third generation" like the 2018 MacBook Pro and 2018 MacBook Air. Owners of the 2018 MacBook Pro and 2018 MacBook Air can have their keyboards replaced with ones that have the new materials during repair, according to The Verge."
[doublepost=1558462328][/doublepost]Okay. I have been very critical of Apple about this whole keyboard thing.....but, maybe this is a step in the right direction. Fingers crossed!!!

 

[sracer]

Will 2018 repaired keyboards get the latest "improved" mechanism??
[doublepost=1558462252][/doublepost]Maybe this answers my question:

"The new keyboard design on the 2019 MacBook Pro is still classified as "third generation" like the 2018 MacBook Pro and 2018 MacBook Air. Owners of the 2018 MacBook Pro and 2018 MacBook Air can have their keyboards replaced with ones that have the new materials during repair, according to The Verge."
[doublepost=1558462328][/doublepost]Okay. I have been very critical of Apple about this whole keyboard thing.....but, maybe this is a step in the right direction. Fingers crossed!!!

...because the 4th time's the charm.

They're still denying that it is a significant issue. They're also hedging their claim that this latest revision will actually resolve the issue. "should significantly reduce" is not the phrase used by someone who has a firm understanding of the cause of the issue and has created a solution to resolve it.

 

[Mainsail]

...because the 4th time's the charm.

They're still denying that it is a significant issue. They're also hedging their claim that this latest revision will actually resolve the issue. "should significantly reduce" is not the phrase used by someone who has a firm understanding of the cause of the issue and has created a solution to resolve it.

I agree and won’t be replacing my 2014 MBA until confident that this latest iteration solves the problem. Nevertheless, I am not sure what else Apple can do at this point other than a full recall. They extended the warranty to 4 years and will replace with the latest keyboard.....like I said, steps in the right direction.

I suspect they know that this keyboard thing is a giant issue for the reputation of their laptops and Apple quality in general. There is no way this hasn’t been a huge pain for Apple's own employees who exclusively use MacBooks.

The older MBA was the high water mark for Apple laptop reliability and affordability. It is still the go to device on college campuses. Apple needs to get back to this same place in consumer confidence.

 

[sracer]

I agree and won’t be replacing my 2014 MBA until confident that this latest iteration solves the problem. Nevertheless, I am not sure what else Apple can do at this point other than a full recall. They extended the warranty to 4 years and will replace with the latest keyboard.....like I said, steps in the right direction.

I don't see continuing to gaslight customers as a step in the right direction. But I'm odd that way.

A step in the right direction would be a full recall and a full refund for those who paid for keyboard repairs due to the defective keyboard.

 

[DJLC]

a solution to resolve it.

Until they offer a no-questions-asked keyboard upgrade to the latest design for owners of all butterfly keyboards, they haven't resolved anything IMO. And agreed on the "should reduce" phrasing being BS...

 

[Mainsail]

I don't see continuing to gaslight customers as a step in the right direction. But I'm odd that way.
View attachment 838300
A step in the right direction would be a full recall and a full refund for those who paid for keyboard repairs due to the defective keyboard.

I agree that those that paid for keyboard repairs should get full refunds for the service.

Please note that per the keyboard service program on Apple's web page:

"If you believe your Mac notebook was affected by this issue, and you paid to have your keyboard repaired, you can contact Apple about a refund."

So, this might be an option.