Anyone else abandoning ship?

ibivibiv

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 5, 2015
164
305
As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors 603
Mar 19, 2008
6,078
9,005
Many of us feel your frustration OP.

I'm personally saved by having a 2015 15" that does all I need for now and likely a few years to come, so I'm just not confronted with a mandatory decision right now - thank god.

If I did have to make a decision right now and I couldn't buy a 2015 model (or that wouldn't do enough for my work needs for some reason), I think I'd probably get a Thinkpad and force myself to deal with Windows.

I really love macOS, but hardware being unreliable introduces a level of frustration and productivity loss that outweighs OS preference, even for me.

I'm hoping to hang on long enough for a hopefully better new direction with Mac laptops in the future.
 

StellarVixen

macrumors 68020
Mar 1, 2018
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As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?
Dunno, why didn't you just return it if the keyboard is that horrible?

Bad keyboard is an exception, not a rule. Every poll here yielded the same result.
 

ignatius345

macrumors 68030
Aug 20, 2015
2,620
3,533
Same boat, but my laptop needs are modest enough these days (writing mostly) that a 5 year-old MacBook Air is enough, while an iMac 5K does the heavy lifting for occasional graphic design and video work.

I'm not into buying a laptop without a usable keyboard. The ports and lack of MagSafe connector I can begrudgingly live with -- but the keyboard is a dealbreaker. I know plenty of people in real life who have failing or failed butterfly* keyboards, and even when they're working correctly I find them abysmal to type on. And yes, I have used one long enough to "get used to it".

It's sad, because I've been an enthusiastic user of Apple laptops since about 2000. Hoping something changes.

* they call it a butterfly keyboard because it's very thin, very pretty and doesn't live long.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors 603
Mar 19, 2008
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Same boat, but my needs are modest enough these days (writing mostly) that a 5 year-old MacBook Air is enough, while an iMac 5K does the heavy lifting for occasional graphic design and video work.
That's a great point and now that I think about it, I'd migrate to your type of setup before going to Windows still I think. I honestly don't really need a 15" Pro laptop, but just sort of prefer having one machine that can do all of what I want.

But.. I could get by with 2 machines, one being an iMac and the laptop being something like an older MBA.

Non retina screen ever bother you since you switch between them?
That'd be my only hesitation.
 

ignatius345

macrumors 68030
Aug 20, 2015
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Dunno, why didn't you just return it if the keyboard is that horrible?

Bad keyboard is an exception, not a rule. Every poll here yielded the same result.
Nobody cares about your polls. If even 2% of users had failing keyboards, that's a MAJOR fail. It's a huge pain in the ass to take your Mac out of daily use, and it's especially unexcusable considering these are very expensive machines. Someone I spoke to recently said she wanted to take hers in, but she was waiting for a day when she didn't need it for work. You buy a $1K laptop, that **** shouldn't be happening, period. The fact is, one RARELY heard about Mac keyboards failing until the last couple of years. You remember the threads on here with hundreds of posts about people's failing MacBook scissor switch keyboards? Me neither.

[doublepost=1547412067][/doublepost]
That's a great point and now that I think about it, I'd migrate to your type of setup before going to Windows still I think. I honestly don't really need a 15" Pro laptop, but just sort of prefer having one machine that can do all of what I want.

But.. I could get by with 2 machines, one being an iMac and the laptop being something like an older MBA.

Non retina screen ever bother you since you switch between them?
That'd be my only hesitation.
For writing, nah. The non-retina type wasn't exactly burning my eyes out a few years ago, so it's fine now. Is it drop-dead gorgeous to look at? Not at all. Is it legible? Absolutely. For image editing and stuff, sure, an older MBA would probably be a sub-optimal choice. But for reading and writing words, it's totally fine.

And if you need/want a retina display those MBPs from a few years ago are still out there and can be bought. They're commanding pretty decent prices, though. Hmm, wonder why... :)
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors 603
Mar 19, 2008
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That's right, even if 2 percent of all keyboards were defective, that means there is high chance that one you would get in return would be a flawless one.
Pretty amazing how many people don't seem to have that "next one is flawless" result...
Lots of unlucky people I guess...

I really hope the people that do get a "flawless" one, also get one that stays that way for more than a few months.
 
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StellarVixen

macrumors 68020
Mar 1, 2018
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Pretty amazing how many people don't seem to have that "next one is flawless" result...
Lots of unlucky people I guess...

I really hope the people the do get a "flawless" one, also get one that stays that way for more than a few months.
Yeah, i read the forum, i know how many people is that. Approximately, hundreds out of million..

I know, i would be annoyed if I got the defective unit, but you guys are unbelievable. This thread's title says it all.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors 603
Mar 19, 2008
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9,005
Yeah, i read the forum, i know how many people is that. Approximately, hundreds out of million..
If we had all users (or a large majority) of new MBP's participating on the forum, maybe then we could infer any conclusions from the data here, but we don't and so we can't. This is all just extra data that must be considered along with many other sources to form a full picture.

I mean that in all directions regarding the keyboards.

What's inescapable, however, is these sorts of issues were essentially non-existent before.
So whatever percentage of users are having problems, it's too much vs previous generations.

New and presumably better products shouldn't introduce new problems to key components like this.
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,461
4,965
As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type.
Get the keyboard fixed then? You never had an electronic device break on you?

I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions.
And I am enjoying the ability to connect all my peripherals + display + charging cable via a single port :)

It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.
Everybody's needs are different and its very much possible that the current MBP doesn't satisfy yours. At the same time, your needs are not the golden standard of "pro computing". The MBP has some of the best displays in the industry, one of the fastest internal storage systems, fastest WiFi in any laptop, most flexible connectivity of all the laptops, and its a compact device hosting high-end performance components while still offering full day battery life. What about this is not pro?

Yeah, there are some issues with the design that result in higher chance of certain failures compared to some of the previous MBP models. Maybe (since we don't have any reliable statistics on this to begin with). And it's not like the competitors are any more reliable.
 

Martius

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2008
411
1,199
Prague, CZ
Well, I love macOS and I am gonna stick with it as long as I can. But I'm still a realist, so I also don't like the direction where the Mac is going. I need a reliable machine. I could even get use to the gimmicky touchbar, but I could not live with that badly designed keyboard and all those other issues. The keyboard fail rate is much more than 2%. I believe that if you use those 2016+ MBP on daily basis, the keyboard will sooner or later fail.

Apple needs more product focused people, those who really want to build the best products. You know why all those people praise Steve Jobs? Because they know he cared. It was his company and he put everything in it. He made mistakes, many mistakes, but he cared and he was always there to fix those mistakes and learn from them. Cook is just an employee.
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,461
4,965
And I have the necessary amount of ports to enjoy my new Lenovo without any dongle‘s. Saving some money besides so I didn’t have to buy an dongle adapter.:)
If it works for you, sure. Unfortunately, Lenovo doesn’t make a computer that can match the 15” MBP combination of performance, portability and ergonomy, so I’d rather carry a 80g dongle with me rather than switch to a machine that doesn’t match my expectations.
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,102
1,395
After the i9 was a disappointment i was considering it, but i'm so insanely happy with Mini+13" that no way.

However the i9 i had was a dud, repeating keys after one month, display flickering... and probably a bad call to get a 15" to begin with.
 

ignatius345

macrumors 68030
Aug 20, 2015
2,620
3,533
Next time write something more constructive, calling people names is not an argument by itself.


"If even 2% of users had failing keyboards, that's a MAJOR fail.If even 2% of users had failing keyboards, that's a MAJOR fail."

That's right, even if 2 percent of all keyboards were defective, that means there is high chance that one you would get in return would be a flawless one.
Haha, maybe playing keyboard roulette is good enough for you, but some of us who have been using Macs for decades expect more. Show me all the threads with hundreds of posts about the scissor switch MacBook keyboards failing over and over from common dust. I'll wait.
 

StellarVixen

macrumors 68020
Mar 1, 2018
2,194
3,581
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Haha, maybe playing keyboard roulette is good enough for you, but some of us who have been using Macs for decades expect more. Show me all the threads with hundreds of posts about the scissor switch MacBook keyboards failing over and over from common dust. I'll wait.
Yeah, right, like i do not have smarter things to do with my life.

It is 11:44 PM, here, time for sleep, not arguing with self righteous people on the Internet. That can wait till tomorrow.
 

PROFESS0R

macrumors 6502
Jul 30, 2017
333
304
For the first time since 2003, I am strongly considering a slow withdrawal from the Apple ecosystem... and not because of my 2018 MacBook Pro. It has been absolutely flawless and I love the keyboard. The issue as I see it is that Apple software, from my iPhone X to my iPad Pro, and even my Apple TV is flawed and is buggy significantly more than I ever remember. I am not exaggerating when I say that I reboot my iPhone X at least once every three days because of funky behavior, and this is down from THREE times a day from the previous software releases. My Apple TV is ridden with bugs and I have unplugged it twice in the past week because of strange behaviors. Frankly, I am getting tired of the issues, and while I do not know if this is related to Jobs no longer running the company, it “feels” like it is. I am more unhappy with Apple than I ever remember being.

Joe
 

Mainsail

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2010
1,462
1,475
I understand the frustration with the butterfly keyboard. I have a 2014 MBA, and will hold off as long as possible before . I want to stay with MacOS, but need to see how the keyboard holds-up with real world use on the 2018 MBA. Some folks have reported problems, and at this point it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as before....but, definitely too early to tell. Anyway, my preference is to replace my current MBA with the new one if it proves to be reliable. My 2014 MBA has been the best computer I ever owned, so it’s a hard act to follow.

As OP pointed out, I sometimes wonder if Apple is just biding it's time with their laptops while they focus on the iPad Pro as an alternative device. In Tim Cook's heart, I think he believes the iPad is the future and is the better choice for the typical consumer, and iOS 13 might be another step in that direction. I don't necessarily agree this approach, but I think it may well be Apple's long term strategy. Also, they might think entry level consumers are better off with the base iPad ($329) plus Mac Mini ($799). Assuming most people have a monitor, keyboard, and mouse laying around the house, this setup might be a better option than paying $1200 for a laptop.......at least in Apple's eyes.

Time will tell.
 
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Acorn

macrumors 68030
Jan 2, 2009
2,554
282
macrumors
I have been considering a lenovo thinkpad. Then installing a VM with linux to try out for awhile. The thinkpads have great keyboards and they have really come down in price over the years. Mac keyboard sucks. no ports sucks. paying 4x what a product is worth sucks. windows sucks. linux looks like to be my only option these days.
 
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