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MBP TB can't play 4K h.265 files :(

Managed to install Win10 on my Skylake MBP16 with 455.

With the stock Boot Camp Radeon drivers all the HEVC 10 bit 4K videos below play smooth like butter with live scrubbing in Windows Media player

http://4kmedia.org/
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meboy said:
One of the biggest problems with Mac. Video playback.
No options for good players and just terrible experience overall compared to Windows.
Apple going on about the first time a Mac can do something that windows could do for the last 2 years at least. Just needed to change the video player to one that supported it in the early days.
Click to expand...

Apple can fix this but the richest corporation in the world didn't become so wealthy without screwing its loyal customers many many times in many different ways.
 
I've spent some considerable amount of time on this s**t :)

Currently running:
  • MacBook 12" with Kaby Lake (Has built in 10-bit HEVC 4k/8k decoding/encoding) on 10.13
  • Intel NUC Hackintosh with Windows 10 and 10.12.6 + eGPU (GTX 980 Ti)
The only setup where I'm able to do 10-bit decoding in real-time is my Hackintosh with Windows 10 and integrated graphics (630).

10.3: Not sure how it should work and what container formats are supported for H.265 10-bit - no luck at all
10.2: No software what so ever supports 10-bit, VLC has had HEVC support for ages, handbrake to. However you cannot do Video on a mac and bypass apple's ****** APIs.

On Windows Intel, NVIDIA etc. has great API's for encode/decode H.265 10-bit, none of them are supported by apple, or can be used by 3th party.

You need to rely on VideoToolBox APIs that seems to be s**t, i.e. does not allow any fine tuning about the process, none. It's a bit like their metal libraries. It's also unclear if Apple will support other hardware than the iGPU found in Kaby Lake for this.

For example if I upgrade my eGPU to 1080 Ti (That does hw encode/decode) - will that work in High Sierra? If I jump to AMD? The problem with the Kaby Lake iGPU's are that they need to be active to be able to decode, i.e. you need to have a monitor connected. Nothing you want to do if you have a eGPU......

Apple could just point to the (coming?) Apple TV that are rumoured to have 4k, and would need to support main 10-bit.
 
direktorn said:
I've spent some considerable amount of time on this s**t :)

Currently running:
  • MacBook 12" with Kaby Lake (Has built in 10-bit HEVC 4k/8k decoding/encoding) on 10.13
  • Intel NUC Hackintosh with Windows 10 and 10.12.6 + eGPU (GTX 980 Ti)
The only setup where I'm able to do 10-bit decoding in real-time is my Hackintosh with Windows 10 and integrated graphics (630).

10.3: Not sure how it should work and what container formats are supported for H.265 10-bit - no luck at all
10.2: No software what so ever supports 10-bit, VLC has had HEVC support for ages, handbrake to. However you cannot do Video on a mac and bypass apple's ****** APIs.

On Windows Intel, NVIDIA etc. has great API's for encode/decode H.265 10-bit, none of them are supported by apple, or can be used by 3th party.

You need to rely on VideoToolBox APIs that seems to be s**t, i.e. does not allow any fine tuning about the process, none. It's a bit like their metal libraries. It's also unclear if Apple will support other hardware than the iGPU found in Kaby Lake for this.

For example if I upgrade my eGPU to 1080 Ti (That does hw encode/decode) - will that work in High Sierra? If I jump to AMD? The problem with the Kaby Lake iGPU's are that they need to be active to be able to decode, i.e. you need to have a monitor connected. Nothing you want to do if you have a eGPU......

Apple could just point to the (coming?) Apple TV that are rumoured to have 4k, and would need to support main 10-bit.
Click to expand...
For 10.13 it's in QuickTime, and it works with hvc1 encoded files. 10-bit 4K HEVC h.265 hvc1 works perfectly on my MacBook 12" Kaby Lake.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/4k-hevc-10-bit-on-the-2017-core-m3-macbook-is-gorgeous.2054232/

No other GPUs supported. Only Intel Quick Sync.

BTW, IINA supports 10-bit HEVC just fine in 10.12, but it's purely software decode. So you need something like an i7 7700K to even approach decoding some of the more complex high-bitrate 4K HEVC 10-bit. The same files are a lost cause on the i5 machines...

...that is unless you use Quick Sync. With Quick Sync the same files that bring my i5 7600 to its knees and which also severely stressed out my i7 7700K in software-only decode, will play back perfectly on my i5 7600 iMac with less than 10% usage, and will play back on my Core m3 7Y32 MacBook with about 25% usage.
 
CestLucas said:
Last Edit: So IMO a kaby lake cpu is necessary for the 13inches without dedicated GPUs to play 4k 10bit HEVC but if you already got the late 2016 15inch MacBook Pros the chances are that Apple will soon support decoding the HEVC format via the Radeon Pro Graphic Cards so no worries about not being to able to play such format.
Click to expand...

So does High Sierra provide support for the the Late 2016 15" MacBook Pros to decode 4K 10bit HEVC?
 
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EugW said:
For 10.13 it's in QuickTime, and it works with hvc1 encoded files. 10-bit 4K HEVC h.265 hvc1 works perfectly on my MacBook 12" Kaby Lake.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/4k-hevc-10-bit-on-the-2017-core-m3-macbook-is-gorgeous.2054232/

No other GPUs supported. Only Intel Quick Sync.

BTW, IINA supports 10-bit HEVC just fine in 10.12, but it's purely software decode. So you need something like an i7 7700K to even approach decoding some of the more complex high-bitrate 4K HEVC 10-bit. The same files are a lost cause on the i5 machines...

...that is unless you use Quick Sync. With Quick Sync the same files that bring my i5 7600 to its knees and which also severely stressed out my i7 7700K in software-only decode, will play back perfectly on my i5 7600 iMac with less than 10% usage, and will play back on my Core m3 7Y32 MacBook with about 25% usage.
Click to expand...

I tried the 10-bit "Camp" video with my Late 2013 Pro, and CPU was ~700% and playback was choppy, as expected.

Trying to decide between 2017 13" Tb MBP and 2016 15" Tb MBP w/ 450 or 455. Just wondering if the dGPU in the '16 MBPs will play 10-bit HEVC via 10.13? Should be no problem with the KabyLake in the '17.
 
BeatCrazy said:
I tried the 10-bit "Camp" video with my Late 2013 Pro, and CPU was ~700% and playback was choppy, as expected.

Trying to decide between 2017 13" Tb MBP and 2016 15" Tb MBP w/ 450 or 455. Just wondering if the dGPU in the '16 MBPs will play 10-bit HEVC via 10.13? Should be no problem with the KabyLake in the '17.
Click to expand...
dGPU doesn’t help. Apple is not supporting HEVC hardware decode using the dGPU on Skylake Macs.
 
EugW said:
dGPU doesn’t help. Apple is not supporting HEVC hardware decode using the dGPU on Skylake Macs.
Click to expand...
Eek. That is disappointing. Any links to further discussions regarding lack of 10-bit HEVC support via Skylake + dGPUs?
 
BeatCrazy said:
Eek. That is disappointing. Any links to further discussions regarding lack of 10-bit HEVC support via Skylake + dGPUs?
Click to expand...
No real need for further discussion at this point. It’s straight from the horse’s mouth (Apple). Intel 7th gen Quick Sync (or else Apple A9) or better required for 10-bit hardware decode. Any earlier CPUs are software decode only for 10-bit HEVC.

It will be interesting to see what they do for the iMac Pro though, since its CPU may not have Intel Quick Sync.
 
Last edited:
EugW said:
No real need for further discussion at this point. It’s straight from the horse’s mouth (Apple). Intel 7th gen Quick Sync (or else Apple A9) or better required for 10-bit hardware decode. Any earlier CPUs are software decode only for 10-bit HEVC.

It will be interesting to see what they do for the iMac Pro though, since its CPU may not have Intel Quick Sync.
Click to expand...

Right, and neither do the Late 2013 Mac Pros :(
 
I've seen this thread multiple times but never read all the posts in it, until now.
Very interesting read. Thanks to OP. Special thanks to @EugW for the informative posts & clarifications.

I almost bought a 2016 MBP 13" nTB at 115K INR last year after it launched in India (December'16 I guess). I was this close to buying it. I saw some threads online about benefits of Kaby Lake over Sky Lake. I decided to hold the thought as soon as I heard about Mac refresh in June - and boy what a good decision I made. I picked up a 2017 MBP 13" TB(yes TB) for 115K INR 2 weeks ago.

Earlier I tested 10bit HEVC 4K Jellyfish 140mbps. VLC showed one frame and froze while the audio played. VLC ~360% CPU. Also tried 4K h264 140mbps Jellyfish - in VLC first 15 seconds were choppy and stutters but last 15 seconds played fine - though VLC was using ~300% CPU. Dunno why.

5 more days. Can't wait to get a hold of the High Sierra. :)

P.S. Fun fact - I could actually tell among the posters who owns a 2016 or Older system by reading their post. :p
 
Playable = OCD level fine
Not Playable = There are some stutters here and there

Media Playback - Stats.png
 
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macintoshmac said:
Anything similar for 13" 2016 with TB? Iris 550?
Click to expand...
I don't have a 2016 MacBook Pro right now. But I'll visit home next week where a friend of mine has the entry toucher model from last year. Will check these on his system before HS comes out.

Good idea. Thanks for asking. Will test and post the results. :)
 
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Sovon Halder said:
I don't have a 2016 MacBook Pro right now. But I'll visit home next week where a friend of mine has the entry toucher model from last year. Will check these on his system before HS comes out.

Good idea. Thanks for asking. Will test and post the results. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you! You may also tell me if you used a particular software or something.
 
macintoshmac said:
Thank you! You may also tell me if you used a particular software or something.
Click to expand...
There is no software. I created the document myself and took the cpu usage scores by observing real time loads several times in a row for each of the files(playback). Took some time but it's interesting.

QT is the best player. The 2nd best is IINA. VLC is a resource hog that rapes the battery and I'll never use it again.
 
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Sovon Halder said:
There is no software. I created the document myself and took the cpu usage scores by observing real time loads several times in a row for each of the files(playback). Took some time but it's interesting.

QT is the best player. The 2nd best is IINA. VLC is a resource hog that rapes the battery and I'll never use it again.
Click to expand...

After discovering IINA, I'm not going back to VLC either. Been a VLC addict for years. Possibly a decade.
 
macintoshmac said:
After discovering IINA, I'm not going back to VLC either. Been a VLC addict for years. Possibly a decade.
Click to expand...
This matter - I find it weird.

For the past 10 years I've been using Windows. In the earlier days I started with GOM, KMPlayer, VLC etc. There are(were) soooooo many media players I tried that I lost count. But as I became quite familiar with the nooks and crannies, I started to use MPC-HC and later came the madVR renderer. Movie buffs who dig high definition stuff know what I'm talking about. Its THE BEST setup (although extremely resource hungry).

I started using an iMac at work last year but I can't consume media there. I bought my first personal Mac system last month and here things are quite different. I don't get even half as much threads regarding various issues compared to windows - when I look something up in google. The community seems quite silent about things. And now I got the idea that there are not even half as much applications compared to windows platform. I might be wrong but to me it seems that way.

I had to look up for best media players in Mac before one or two peopleI(very few) suggested me that IINA is a good player. If it was windows, the internet would have been bloated by posts regarding IINA.
 
Thanks for the recommendation guys, IINA is a terrific video player. Always thought that VLC was the best lol.
 
IINA is also color gamut aware. It renders better colors on P3 displays whereas VLC only renders the same way, be it any screen.
 
shuttaman said:
So my maxed out macbook pro 13'' early 2015 can't really watch it 4k H.265(and I just updated to high sierra) I used IINA and it was very choppy.
but plex on my Samsung can....

So am I'm SOL for this?
Damnnn
Click to expand...
Some of those videos will play fine in QuickTime. However, many of them won't, and yes you are SOL for those.
 
BeatCrazy said:
Anyone have any additional experience after installing High Sierra today?
Click to expand...

My 2016 15" CTO TB MBP with max CPU and GPU cannot play the Jellyfish 4k H265 file with VLC. It doesn't even attempt to open with Quicktime. Gonna try IINA now, just heard about it reading this thread!

Edit: Jellyfish 120mbps 4K 10bit opens fine with IINA!
Sony 4K HDR Camp.mp4 opens with IINA but it is stuttering a bit

Edit 2: Sometimes Jellyfish stutters as well. IINA does not use my discrete GPU by default, I have to force it to use the discrete GPU. By default it uses the integrated GPU which goes to around 45-50% usage playing the file, while CPU usage hits around 90-96%. On discrete it uses around 10-15% GPU and CPU usage is around 45-50% or so. Can't say I'm too impressed by this performance, tbh. So much for the discrete card handling H.265 in High Sierra, I guess they never said it would handle 4K 10 bit H.265!
 
Last edited:
kbk75 said:
My 2016 15" CTO TB MBP with max CPU and GPU cannot play the Jellyfish 4k H265 file with VLC. It doesn't even attempt to open with Quicktime. Gonna try IINA now, just heard about it reading this thread!

Edit: Jellyfish 120mbps 4K 10bit opens fine with IINA!
Sony 4K HDR Camp.mp4 opens with IINA but it is stuttering a bit
Click to expand...
But isn’t that the same behavior one would expect with regular Sierra?
 
BeatCrazy said:
But isn’t that the same behavior one would expect with regular Sierra?
Click to expand...

I've only just used IINA for the very first time, so I don't have a Sierra comparison to make. In Sierra I only ever tried opening the files with VLC, which doesn't open either file in High Sierra either.
 
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