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MCX Confirms Retailer Exclusivity for CurrentC Mobile Payments, but No Fines for Leaving Consortium
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meh.. they take too much.. just like ATMs (atm fee + a more hidden fee from the banks.. it costs me $5-6 to withdraw cash from a nonbank ATM?? screw that (even though i do it anyway
))Right there's the key line. For about 4-5 days now, every one of these threads has filled in with an abundance of attacks against the non-Apple alternative. No surprise- that's almost a universal rule for all things related to Apple. Post after post about foolishly turning away money is right but implying that these huge retailers are dumb is wrong. There have a reason for trying to go another way and there it is.
Apple's solution piles on to a long-term leech arrangement that enriches the big banks. Everything we buy with credit cards and now Apple Pay dings the seller a few percentage points in transaction costs. Apparently Apple takes a very little slice of that and the banks take the rest. It's no small change. A retailer with an 8% profit who is dinged 2% (of revenues) in total when they take a credit card (or now Apple Pay), is redirecting 25% of their profit to these banks. Imagine if AT&T, Verizon, etc took 25% of Apple's profits in order to cover their part of making the iPhone business go. Would Apple be dumb for trying to find another way to do business to reduce or eliminate that 25% cut? Of course not, and "we" would be finding great fault with AT&T, Verizon, etc for taking such a big bite out of Apple's profits rather than marginalizing it as "a cost of doing business" and so on.
Apparently this CurrentC is an attempt to somewhat replicate a mobile payment option while (maybe) cutting out the leeches. For consumers, we would still get to buy things at the exact same price (so there's no higher cost burden for us) but the merchant would get to keep more of their profit rather than lose it to gigantic banks who have little-to-nothing to do with the work of driving each sale.
As a point of comparison, visit anTV thread. There is an abundance of gripes that
Too bad Apple Pay didn't take on the mobile payments business in a similar way. In other words, instead of partnering with the leeches (and thus offering yet another way to further enrich the big banks), what if Apple had chosen to implement Apple Pay as CurrentC appears to be trying to do (cut out those middlemen bankers)? Then, we could have the great, ease-of-use benefits of Apple's option while helping ALL businesses be more profitable than they can be "as is". Instead of having to pitch retailers on partnering with Apple Pay, all retailers could keep more of their profits on every sale by encouraging Apple Pay.
Are there things wrong with CurrentC concept? Of course. But the one thing that appears to be better is this goal of cutting out that transactional cost. It wouldn't take a lot for Apple to make Apple Pay also work with CurrentC. Then those businesses wanting to continue to send a couple percent of their profits to the big banks could stick with "as is" solution and those wanting to keep that profit could use CurrentC. For us consumers, Apple Pay would work the exact same way as a kind of UI layer atop whichever method is being used by a given retailer. Quicktime or Safari runs atop both OS X and Windows OSs. Those are very different systems behind the scenes but the part "we" use is largely the same. Apple Pay could work like that too with both platforms.
In other words, Apple almost shouldn't care about the CurrentC initiative. Just make Apple Pay work with that platform too and everybody (except the big banks) would be happy. Many of "us" are treating CurrentC like it's some kind of attack against Apple. It's not. It's just a bunch of companies mostly trying to cut a hefty albatross cost. Apple could help them do that with Apple Pay and the end result for us consumers would be transparent (we wouldn't even know if it was the "as is" or CurrentC platform underpinning any given transaction).
Nice thoughts on the other side of the coin, "what if" Apple had disrupted the "leeches" (banks, Visa/MC). BUT let's be totally honest here. Retailers are just as big of leeches. They are ALL middlemen between the producer and consumer, whether it be a financial distributor making the transaction safe and quick between buyer and seller or the greasy middleman Walmart housing a producer's goods until a consumer is ready to buy. How many horrow stories of producers being squeezed by Walmart for cheaper prices or risk them finding suppliers in China?
And my God can you imagine the regulatory scrutiny Apple or anyone would face by trying to disintermediate the banks with their own virtual currency? Apple has enough trouble producing iPhones fast enough and securing cloud storage. They don't have the manpower to become an iBank. And if they did you better believe they would take their own 3-5% off the top of transactions for the trouble. In short, send me a greeting card from your Utopian planet.
Seriously???
Perhaps if I were a retail chain, I'd listen to 5 or 10 minutes of this clueless MCX sales pitch. Thank goodness Apple is trying to address what the "consumer" wants. They seem to be the only "retailer" that gets it.
P.S.
This is why we haven't made it to Vulcan yet.
Perhaps if I were a retail chain, I'd listen to 5 or 10 minutes of this clueless MCX sales pitch. Thank goodness Apple is trying to address what the "consumer" wants. They seem to be the only "retailer" that gets it.
P.S.
This is why we haven't made it to Vulcan yet.
Banks create money out of thin air through fractional reserve banking. I would seriously suggest anyone who isn't familiar with that look into it, it's amazing...and I mean that in a 'wow...it all really is just made up' way. Knowing this, it's easy for me at least to have a certain mindset about banks. They really are just siphoning away what money a person does have simply because they can, not because they need it.
That article is basically correct. However, notice the exception, involving state laws, which vary state to state.
People have definitely successfully sued before over the inability to pay a debt in a cash method without incurring any extra fees before and won. That would vary state to state.
This isn't correct. Congress has broad powers in regards to interstate commerce. I'm not going to make the claim that they WOULD be able to compel the use of a particular technology, but I would also not make the claim that they, without a doubt, could not.
You too are missing the point.
Apple pay/Google Wallet are just a 'medium' to pay with your debit or credit card. So how does stopping Apple pay/Google wallet make sense??
These stores are still accepting your credit card if you swipe it, BUT if you present the same credit card to them in form of Apple pay, then they don't want it..
It doesn't add up....
Exactly. That's why Walmart is pushing this big time. I doubt if the pharmacies are operating on the same high-volume, low-margin model.
A business that gives up accepting Visa/MC cards will be throwing business away. Especially retailers like Best Buy that sell products that people don't have the immediate cash for.
It should also be noted that Apple Pay itself might keep you anonymous. But there will still be shoppes who want to use their loyalty cards in conjunction with paying. So it's not like they are going to remain anonymous regardless.
I don't understand people's anger and retailers who are trying to decrease their overhead. Last I checked, like Apple, they have investors too.
I don't begrudge either side doing what they can to keep money coming in.
The thing is, with ApplePay they can STILL give you coupons based on your purchases. Your purchases made right NOW--not on the history/profile they have built up--but they CAN do aggregate calculations like "people who buy this bread also but this peanut butter." And out comes a coupon.
So I have no sympathy for retailers wanting more personal data.
So I have no sympathy for retailers wanting more personal data.
Time for apple to open their wallet and give retailers the 'incentive' to leave the consortium. Of course, we'll never read about it.
That's my point, they're still going to accept credit cards. Obviously they feel Pay is going to be significant enough so they turned off NFC to prevent it from working. What the people supporting MCX and CurrentC don't understand is consumers like credit cards. And a lot of consumers can't afford to pay for everything right out of their bank account. I don't care how many bribes these retailers offer they're not going to get people to stop using credit. Turn off NFC and I'll just use my plastic Visa card. No way is any merchant getting direct access to my bank account.
+1
Also, they'll know the purchase history of your device, so they can target coupons at the register for that too.
It is silly to think that consumers believe that they won't be marketed to if they can retain their privacy. They will, they'll just be bothered with much worse advertising.
Why have Google ads been so effective? Because they're super targeted. You email friends talking about baby stuff and you'll start seeing baby ads. You search for men's big and tall clothing and you'll start seeing ads for that type of stuff on Google and elsewhere. These targeted ads are much more relevant to your interests, feel much less spammy and marketing heavy, and you're much more likely to click than back in the day when everyone was shown the same ad on a page.
Advertisers are going to get your info no matter how hard you try not to. Only making purchases with Apple Pay? Your credit card company still knows where you shop and when and they're still selling that info to marketers. Google is still tracking everywhere you go online and what you do and selling that info too.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
No but it's way out of hand. This is not about making transactional cost fall all the way to free. It's about cutting the costs down. If I go into a small business and buy something, I know the seller is making a profit (that's why they exist as a business). If I get whatever I want at an acceptable price, I'd like that seller to pocket as much of the profit in that transaction as possible. As it is now, a chunk of their profit is lost to transactional fees. For small margin businesses, it can be a large percentage of their profit. How do I deal with this? I try to pay in cash wherever possible. But cash is not as safe as credit. So I'd rather use a card or pay with a Phone. However, I too share in the merchants objective of wanting to reduce that cost of those kinds of transactions. I'd rather the merchant get more of the profit rather than a Chase, Citibank, BoA, etc.
If you have never owned a business that takes credit cards, it's harder for a pure consumer to see the leech concept. But if you have owned such a business, it's rough to get 96%-98% of the revenue or maybe 50%-75% of the profit in each transaction because the banks take so much. It may not sound like much but that's a lot for businesses with tight margins. Again, imagine a relationship associated with Apple where someone else took 25% of Apple's profit. "We" armchair CEOs would be less likely to spin "well that's just a cost of doing business" or "if Apple wants my business, they'll just roll with that system" as we are doing in this case.
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Here in the UK, I use QR for loyalty cards with Subway and Coffee Shops and the like.
But it just doesn't cut it, so many factors can slow down a QR scan. Ambient light above the scanner, the brightness on your phone.
Whilst I've not yet used Apple Pay, here in the UK I've used NFC/contactless card payments for a while and it's SO much slicker.
CurrentC, DOA.
But it just doesn't cut it, so many factors can slow down a QR scan. Ambient light above the scanner, the brightness on your phone.
Whilst I've not yet used Apple Pay, here in the UK I've used NFC/contactless card payments for a while and it's SO much slicker.
CurrentC, DOA.
I think that the merchant gets charged a differnet % if you swipe the card?
But that does make sense. Your using your credit card. Also maybe MCX merchants can't use NFC technology? Now I'm confused?
for the time being, sure.. what about 2025? will there still be plastic cards then?
(probably, but i imagine they'll go the way of writing checks in the not too distant future)
Not sure if this was mentioned yet but I'm guessing since this MCX/CurrentC initiative requires a camera to scan QR codes and process a payment, it will require an ios and android app. Correct?
If so, is it not out of the realm of possibility that Apple/Google deny such an app for their marketplaces and therefore, for all intents and purposes, shutting down this feature?
I understand why these retailers want to combat ApplePay and play hardball, I'm just not sure they're fully thinking this through. The success of their program lies directly in the hands of the companies they are trying to screw.
If so, is it not out of the realm of possibility that Apple/Google deny such an app for their marketplaces and therefore, for all intents and purposes, shutting down this feature?
I understand why these retailers want to combat ApplePay and play hardball, I'm just not sure they're fully thinking this through. The success of their program lies directly in the hands of the companies they are trying to screw.
What I find funny is that nobody really knew much about MCX until Apple Pay came out. As they say, the devil is in the details.
I think the more people learn about CurrentC, the less they're going to like it. I certainly don't want all my financial and purchasing habits in the cloud.
What I'm wondering though is will Apple license Apple Pay to be used with other non-Apple devices like Android, etc. because a lot of people will simply refuse to be locked into an Apple system on principle.
I think the more people learn about CurrentC, the less they're going to like it. I certainly don't want all my financial and purchasing habits in the cloud.
What I'm wondering though is will Apple license Apple Pay to be used with other non-Apple devices like Android, etc. because a lot of people will simply refuse to be locked into an Apple system on principle.