Medical Doctors Underline Potential Risk of iPhone 12 Interference With Pacemakers

[jimbobb24]

Honestly surprised the weak magnets in the iPhone made any difference. The magnets you use to turn off the defibrillator component of a pacemaker/defibrillator are quit strong for its size (and the pacemaker will give off a faint high pitched sound letting you it worked). I wouldn’t expect this to be much more risk than your average phone.

 

[jayducharme]

That sort of makes the term "MagSafe" a bit ironic.

 

[hellosil]

This isn't something new.
People fitted with pacemakers and ICDs are advised to keep every form of magnet away from their chest.

 

[contacos]

When can I get my magnet shielding silicon case for an additional 10 bucks?

 

[luvbug]

Well only fault in your analysis is that you are warned, instructed, educated not to bring magnets, radios or anything with emf near your device. I know, I have one, I’m not just making crap up. In fact, they use magnets and magnetic devices to read your implant and test it so, ya know, unless you are a complete ignorer of things, have a device, keep magnets, phones, radios away from it, don’t go in rooms with strong radio interference, don’t go through magnetic scanners at airports, never get an MRI

Yes, so very true, but Henry Ford Heart and Vascular Institute and Dr. Singh need some publicity and have to put a bit of fear out there. It's clear that *all* magnetic devices should be confiscated and heretofore banned worldwide. We can't just simply depend on someone getting a pacemaker and taking due caution to protect their own health! /s

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Anyone remember those crazy Nextel phones? I had one and remember it often interfered with the radio in my car, and I sometimes heard it on my iPod. It put out so much power, and so many harmonics I could hear the clicking it put out on a lot of devices. I used to carry it in my shirt pocket, and it made my heart 'feel funny', so I stopped. That thing was likely a huge mess for people sensitive to it.

So, why the Apple pile on from the medical community now? It seems so fierce and focused on them. Are the magnets in the 12 that strong? Can it stick vertical to metal?

So if a phone can do this, what else in the environment can cause this to happen. The timing just seems weird...

 

[raymondrushing]

And how about other phones and radios? Seriously, if you have a device implanted you should be aware of the issues faced by lots of things with radios, magnets, emf. So nice touch, but one model of phone is not the only issue those of us who have a device face. Plus you have to have it in close proximity to device, just like a device reader/programmer for your device. Simply holding a device over your ear or in your hands to type or read - not a problem, sorry

That’s nice and all that you seem informed with your pacemaker but not everyone is as observant or cautious as you. This is a HUGE problem for Apple, and unless they want to face a slew of product liability lawsuits for strict liability, its likely best for Apple to remove the magnet and scrap this feature or design an alternative where the magnet is not as strong.

 

[ksec]

Meanwhile, Apple needs MagSafe, because it will replace the lightening connector on iPhones one day. Their “Works with iPhone“ must remain, but it will extend to MagSafe otherwise Apple would lose huge licensing fees to their proprietary lightening cables if they cut over to usb-c on iPhones. Yes, they did cut over to usb-c for the iPad, but that was because iPads requires more power than their handheld miniatures.

I am against USB-C ever to manifest on iPhone. But if it was the choice of MagSafe ( in its current form ) and USB-C. I would much rather have USB-C.

I just dont like the idea that I have a devices which I will hand wave about on a street could possibly stop something as fatal as Pacemaker when someone walk across me. Imagine a kid using his phone while you are walking along and his phone is at the height of your chess. It would surely put a lot of stress on people. Hopefully it is not as serious as I made it out to be.

Having said that I dont think we need MagSafe to be on the back, MacBook MagSafe, aka the Old MagSafe could still be used that is port-ness.

 

[JosephAW]

Can I opt out with MagSafe with my next iPhone?
there’s a new start up business, demagnetizing iPhones, Only $500.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I get the risk...but one would think that someone would try to make pacemakers that don't rely on this mechanism to work. Lots of magnets out there, not just iPhones. If an iPhone can interfere with this switch, why not come up with something that work differently (and is safer)?

It's probably a case of people not thinking their product through. Like who would have thought that a car's systems could be hacked through wifi, or Bluetooth. Well, anything that was really thinking long term and asking 'what it', and realizing a rolling wifi hot spot was easy pickins...

I'd be wondering if retail shoplifting devices could cause certain devices to freak out. EMF, and magnetic fields are everywhere. We are bathed in EMF on a continuous basis. It sounds like the device industry really needs to hire more engineers in that subset of technology to work around the flaws in their products.

EDIT: One is a 'test mode' and the other is a 'safe mode'. Both are important. So now that there is a consumer product with a strong magnet that can be placed in the near vicinity, the cat's out of the bag... It's a big problem now for iPhone 12 owners.

 

[Marzzz]

So it is important to differentiate between danger to a patient that is pacer dependent versus a patient who has a pacemaker as backup for an intermittent condition (note: I am a doctor).

My understanding was that applying a magnet (the famous blue donut) didn’t turn the pacemaker off, but rather converted it to Asynchronous mode, so that it paced at a default rate (usually 80) and then resumed preprogrammed function once the magnet was removed. I perform radiofrequency ablation procedures which are based on microwaves that could interfere with pacemaker function, and in the past all we needed to do was clear using the magnet with the patient’s cardiologist. But in the last couple of years we have been instructed to have the pacemaker rep come in and reprogram the device before and after the procedure, especially if it was a defibrillator device. None of the cardiologists have clearly explained what may have changed.
But in the meantime, keep the iPhone away from your chest, and don’t watch the food cook...

 

[colonel179]

Magsafe on the iPhone is the worst and useless gimmick Apple has done. This is really a clue that Apple don't have any ideas to make a new product anymore and they depend on just doing new gimmicks to existing products.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Can I opt out with MagSafe with my next iPhone?
there’s a new start up business, demagnetizing iPhones, Only $500.

Maybe there would be a way to remove the magnets. I personally find the addition of the magnets to be an odd thing to do. I use the charging pads, and yeah, occasionally the phone is 'just slightly off' and doesn't charge, but it's not enough of a problem to implement a radical solution like implanting strong magnets into the iPhone. And a 'click-on case, or laughable 'wallet', isn't enough of a benefit to me. One has to ask 'why'. Click-on cases can also click-off too. So what's the point?

But back on the medical devices, why make it so easy to mess with the devices. If they are that sensitive, what else can tweak them? As I said, we are awash in EMF. If they used the magnetics to control the device, that is a problem. They should have used the magnets to attach a charger, but have the devices need to authenticate to a device to be turned off, or adjusted, if I'm understanding the problem correctly. If a simple magnet can stop it from functioning properly, that is a design and engineering defect. It's not Apple's fault. It's the manufacturer cutting corners and not having people there that look forward to what could cause interference with or adjust the device.

EDIT: The pacemaker has a 'test mode'. Put a magnet on it, and it starts pacing. Take the magnet off, it stops. Maybe there is a way to address that, but it will make things a little more complicated. And the magnet on the defibrillator is to shut it on in the ER, or physicians office. It's a quick way to stop it from over shocking a patient. 'Fixing' that woudl end up making things a lot more complicated in that case too.

 

[dragje]

It seems to me that Apple has no other choice than to abondon it's magnets within these phones or make them way less 'powerfull' in the next iPhone. A tech company that sells 'protective' gear, like the Apple Watch, can't come up with the excuse that hearth patients should 'just watch out'.

This is simply unacceptable.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

My understanding was that applying a magnet (the famous blue donut) didn’t turn the pacemaker off, but rather converted it to Asynchronous mode, so that it paced at a default rate (usually 80) and then resumed preprogrammed function once the battery was removed. I perform radiofrequency ablation procedures which are based on microwaves that could interfere with pacemaker function, and in the past all we needed to do was clear using the magnet with the patient’s cardiologist. But in the last couple of years we have been instructed to have the pacemaker rep come in and reprogram the device before and after the procedure, especially if it was a defibrillator device. None of the cardiologists have clearly explained what may have changed.
But in the meantime, keep the iPhone away from your chest, and don’t watch the food cook...

And 'what do you want from life'? Mondo bondage?

I did hear of a local guy whose implantable defibrillator was turned off somehow. Or it just failed. Kinda freaky...

I have a friend that runs a funeral home, and they occasionally are surprised at what they find implanted in bodies they receive. Someone forgets something is in there, or it's not found somehow. And then piercings and such too...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Magsafe on the iPhone is the worst and useless gimmick Apple has done. This is really a clue that Apple don't have any ideas to make a new product anymore and they depend on just doing new gimmicks to existing products.

Gimmick that answers a problem that's not a problem. Using a charging puck, having a way to align the phone to the puck/pad does make sure that the charging will be successful. Was it a crisis? Probably not. Maybe they were getting concerned at the pucks baking things in the iPhone? I could see where alignment could be important... *shrug*

That's the only reason I can see for the magnetically equipped new iPhones...

 

[Marzzz]

Well only fault in your analysis is that you are warned, instructed, educated not to bring magnets, radios or anything with emf near your device. [snip] so, ya know, unless you are a complete ignorer of things, have a device, keep magnets, phones, radios away from it, don’t go in rooms with strong radio interference, don’t go through magnetic scanners at airports, never get an MRI

Actually, they now have MRI compatible devices, but it takes weeks to get an appointment at the one facility where it can be performed.

 

[Piggie]

And how many of those have pacemakers and how many of those with pacemakers will need that pacemaker that exact night. Let's not act like this is some extremely dangerous scenario, it's just (another) thing people with pacemakers need to adjust to.

Indeed, it's something that I'm positive happens to people all over the globe every single night.
The point of course is, those who do have a pacemaker must be sensible and never put themselves into this position.

But people do silly things, people get drunk, people forget...... you know, we're only human.

This problem could of course be instantly resolved by reversing the construction.
Metal ring within the back of the phone, and the strong magnets on the accessories, so this potential for harm is instantly resolved.

 

[Marzzz]

And 'what do you want from life'? Mondo bondage?

...or a baby’s arm holding an apple!?

 

[Edsel]

I do not have a pacemaker. However, if I had one installed tomorrow, it would be very difficult for me to alter my routine of how I carry my "smartphone". I carry my iPhone in my shirt pocket as I have for over ten years. I would need to change my shirt wardrobe for shirts without pockets if I had a pacemaker implanted.

 

[Rychiar]

Phones these days are too heavy to put in a shirt pocket. I see my dad do that with an SE but my XSMax no way

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

It seems to me that Apple has no other choice than to abondon it's magnets within these phones or make them way less 'powerfull' in the next iPhone. A tech company that sells 'protective' gear, like the Apple Watch, can't come up with the excuse that hearth patients should 'just watch out'.

This is simply unacceptable.

But such things aren't actually all that uncommon. People are not supposed to use their cell phone while at a gas station pump, because *someone* started a fire and they were holding a cell phone at the time. The real likely cause was a woman in a totally synthetic suit, with nylon stalkings, and basically acting like a static electric generator, touching the nozzle to the car and causing an arc as her clothes discharged. Cell phone guilty? No, but it's easier to blame them than the synthetic clothing industry and victims of fashion. Having a ground plate on the pump would make sense, or having a grounding clamp for the car, but neither one is likely to stop the very rare chances of a fire... *shrug*

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I do not have a pacemaker. However, if I had one installed tomorrow, it would be very difficult for me to alter my routine of how I carry my "smartphone". I carry my iPhone in my shirt pocket as I have for over ten years. I would need to change my shirt wardrobe for shirts without pockets if I had a pacemaker implanted.

I'd bet that newer devices aren't as sensitive though I don't know. If they aren't, they are not looking ahead and assuming their 'customers' are not going to be leading a normal life. Oops...

EDIT: Boy was I wrong. One is a 'test mode', and the other is a 'safe mode'. They *have* to be that sensitive. Maybe there needs to be a wand with certain codes broadcast to the devices to test them, and safe them. *shrug* It isn't a problem with just Apple devices, and has been known for years. Back to the drawing board?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Phones these days are too heavy to put in a shirt pocket. I see my dad do that with an SE but my XSMax no way

Too BIG! Not quite large enough to be body armor, but give it time...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

...or a baby’s arm holding an apple!?

White punks on magnets?