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So it is important to differentiate between danger to a patient that is pacer dependent versus a patient who has a pacemaker as backup for an intermittent condition (note: I am a doctor). For instance if you are constantly pacer dependent (i.e. for whatever reason your sinus node isn't doing a proper job establishing your heart rate/rhythm) then this could be deadly (depending on what your non-paced escape rhythm is). Versus for instance if once in a blue moon your heart rate becomes dangerously slow and you faint, then it's not going to cause a problem (given the probability of you needing the pacer backup at the exact moment you place your iPhone 12 on your chest).

Modern pacemakers (or electronics in general) are remarkably resistant to EMI (particularly since most pacemakers now are internet connected, they certainly can handle cellular/wifi signals nearby since they themselves generate wifi or BT). The magnet is a specific off-switch (that's a feature, like when I want to take an EKG of a patient with a pacemaker and want to see the underlying heart itself, I put a ring shaped magnet (we leave them stuck on the side of the EKG cart) so the pacemaker shuts off, so we can see, then after the procedure I remove the magnet. i make the same calculation of risk when I place the order for the EKG as to whether you can safely deactivate the pacer for a little while to do the EKG (some patients yes, some no)
It could be other devices too:
Can you imagine if a deep brain stimulator (for movement disorder) went off or an insulin pump dumped its reservoir? There a many devices where accidental activation or deactivation would be debilitating or deadly.
 
That’s nice and all that you seem informed with your pacemaker but not everyone is as observant or cautious as you. This is a HUGE problem for Apple, and unless they want to face a slew of product liability lawsuits for strict liability, its likely best for Apple to remove the magnet and scrap this feature or design an alternative where the magnet is not as strong.
How many manufacturers get sued and lose, when their products feature the appropriate liability warnings?
Indeed, it's something that I'm positive happens to people all over the globe every single night.
The point of course is, those who do have a pacemaker must be sensible and never put themselves into this position.

But people do silly things, people get drunk, people forget...... you know, we're only human. :)

This problem could of course be instantly resolved by reversing the construction.
Metal ring within the back of the phone, and the strong magnets on the accessories, so this potential for harm is instantly resolved.
People do all sorts of silly things, like driving drunk, parachuting, and the list is endless. If one has a pacemaker they need to take appropriate precautions. If one has a peanut allergy or a severe gluten allergy they need to be vigilant.
The new warning says 6 inches away. So no hip pockets or chest pockets. But the what if the person is in an elevator (after Covid) and squished up next to an iPhone 12. Who’s fault is that?
Nice whataboutism.
 
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If you have a pacemaker, don't put your iPhone near your heart. Got it.
I guess smartphones in general shouldn't be near a pacemaker anyway.
Apple said 6 inches while using and 12 inches while charging - unless you have your phone permanently on a selfie stick iPhone 12 IS NOT compatible with medical devices.
 
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Apple said 6 inches while using and 12 inches while charging - unless you have your phone permanently on a selfie stick iPhone 12 IS NOT compatible with medical devices.
Not correct. 6 inches could be in your pants pocket using earpods or bluetooth headphones. Holding the phone at your waist or using it 6 inches from your pacemaker. I have a 6 inch rules in front of me, it is not impossible by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I could see a potential bedtime scenario that you'd need to be sure never happened.
And I'm 100% sure the following scenario has happened to hundreds if not thousands of people many times.

Laying in bed, tired, messing with your phone, and you drift off to sleep, your hands flop down and your phone lands on your chest.

Have to be sure you never ever put yourself in such a situation with one of these phones.
Must be 1000's of people every single night in bed, laying down doing this exact thing.

Well, I’m guessing if you happen to be someone with e pacemaker then your doctors would have advised to stay clear of devices that can cause interference with your pacemaker. The “ignorance” card is hard to play when your health is at stake. Having phones full of magnets, metals and electronics falling into your chest while you have a nap and you are fully aware of the risks is just dumb in my opinion.
 
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Apple's warning to keep the iPhone 12 away from cardiac devices due to electromagnetic interference was further underlined by U.S. cardiologists this week in a new medical journal report (via NBC25 News).

iphone12magsafe.jpg

Apple's iPhone 12 series includes an array of magnets that help align the phone on Apple's MagSafe charging accessory to maximize charging, and Apple already advises users with implanted pacemakers and defibrillators to keep iPhone and MagSafe‌ accessories a safe distance away from such devices.

To test the extent of the risk, Henry Ford Heart and Vascular Institute cardiologist Gurjit Singh and his colleagues recently carried out further testing to see just how much of an influence the Apple products have.

According to the report, more than 300,000 people in the U.S. undergo surgery to implant one of these devices each year, and around one in four smartphones sold last year was an iPhone 12. The cardiac devices have switches which respond to an external magnet to change how the device functions, which allows them to be controlled without the requirement of surgery.

Curious about potential interference with electrical devices, Dr Sign and his colleagues took an iPhone 12 Pro and passed it over the chest of a patient with an implantable defibrillator.
The findings are significant, since Dr Singh is an expert in the use of devices such as implantable defibrillators that detect an irregular heartbeat and shock the heart back into a normal rhythm, and pacemakers that use electricity to keep the heart beating. Following the discovery, Dr Singh and his colleagues immediately submitted a report of their findings to the HeartRhythm medical journal that was published on January 4, 2021.

The findings add to evidence published in January which cautioned that ‌iPhone 12‌ models and related MagSafe devices can "potentially inhibit lifesaving therapy in a patient" due to magnetic interference with implanted medical devices. Apple provides more information about this issue in the "Important safety information for iPhone" section of the ‌iPhone‌ User Guide.

Article Link: New Medical Report Underlines Potential Risk of iPhone 12 Interference With Pacemakers
I think the problem is that Apple state that though the new iPhone 12 have all the extra magnets:”they're not expected to pose a greater risk of magnetic interference to medical devices than prior iPhone models.”
This doesn’t match the laws of physics - more magnets necessarily means more interference.
My iPhone 11 measured 25 milligauss, my 12 pro 263! This is greater than 10 times.
(Measured using Latnex triple axis EMF meter).
 
Hrm. Will they offer iPhone 13 in non-magnetic variants, then? Or some kind of protective cover?
My guess is they are too deep into the manufacturing and R+D process. Just look at the pandemic: Feb (?)-March shutdowns resulted in a phone line with a FaceID security foundation.
 
I have to say, that I am really surprised that Apple came up with a solution that can cause adverse affects to people who have implanted defibrillators. Apple is always promoting their devices to help improve people’s health through the use of their devices. Not one of Apples high points.
 
Maybe the background song in the iPhone 12 (mini) presentation is not only a soundtrack, but also an advise: “na na na na naaa na naaaa” (in my language “na” sounds like “not”)
 

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Easy fix. Just buy an Apple Watch and it’ll let you know if your iPhone is causing any cardiac issues.
Yup. It's a conspiracy to sell more watches, and they got caught again. :) Maybe they will add the feature to the phone to get it to slow down the pacemaker when its battery gets weak.
 
I will admit it's weird, shocking and a little sad to hear comment on here.
And most people, so far would not be much good in many jobs.

If you have a problem, you consider how it's a problem, implement a change which totally solves the problem, and move on.

So far, the bulk of replies seems to be "well just be careful if you have one"

The option I gave (Metal ring in phone, and have magnets in the accessories) totally solves the problem, and the function of sticking things to the back is still maintained.

Yet sadly most seem to be in the "Apple can do no wrong" mindset, so one simple answer that fix's it, cannot be considered.
It's sad :(
 
And how many of those have pacemakers and how many of those with pacemakers will need that pacemaker that exact night. Let's not act like this is some extremely dangerous scenario, it's just (another) thing people with pacemakers need to adjust to.
My mom has an AV node ablation and therefore needs her pacemaker all night every night. Coincidentally she bought the Apple Watch to track her Afib, glad she has iPhone X and not 12.
 
Come on Apple: just make a pacemaker friendly version without the magnets at same cost, just in black to make shipping time shorter. It’s not a huge effort.
 
This risk factor has been known for years by both Apple and the medical community. The real questions are:
• Did Apple know this and intentionally decided to go ahead with the use of the stronger magnets without an option to protect those who may be affected for the sake of putting out a new product; thinking that it would only be a risk to a smaller fraction??
• Is Apple going to offer a fix?
• Is Apple going to offer a refund?
• Moving forward, is Apple going to accommodate those (over 3 million, with 600,000 new implants yearly) with the new models
I love Apple and I trust them. I hope they do the right thing and make this safe for everyone orat the very least offer a Model that is Heart (pacemaker, defibrillator, ICD, medical device FRIENDLY. I hope that if they do offer a Medically Safe iPhone (The MSIphone); that they offer at a lesser price.
 
It has been known forever that you never place an electronic device with or without magnets near a pacer or ICD. It was my understanding that two feet proximity was the limit. I have been putting my cell phone in my back pants pocket ever since the first pocketable cell phone came out. BTW The phones are incredibly durable. I have been "sitting" on my phones forever without them breaking. Just awkward and uncomfortable. I do not even hold my MBP close to my chest.
 
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