Medical Doctors Underline Potential Risk of iPhone 12 Interference With Pacemakers

[DblHelix]

It has a magnet what do you expect? Don’t put it in a chest pocket

 

[Taz Mangus]

Why did Apple put the magnets in the iPhone, instead of in the accessories?

I think there would have been the same issue with the magnet charger pad attached to the iPhone. People could be using the phone while it was charging and having the charging pad attached to the phone.

 

[zunamo]

I think there would have been the same issue with the magnet charger pad attached to the iPhone. People could be using the phone while it was charging and having the charging pad attached to the phone.

yes, but it would be highly unlikely that someone would put it in their front pocket while charging

 

[JosephAW]

Would have been simpler to put the magnets in an Apple Smart case instead of building them in but Apple’s design mentality that users shouldn’t use cases is mind boggling.

 

[Gator5000e]

So it is important to differentiate between danger to a patient that is pacer dependent versus a patient who has a pacemaker as backup for an intermittent condition (note: I am a doctor). For instance if you are constantly pacer dependent (i.e. for whatever reason your sinus node isn't doing a proper job establishing your heart rate/rhythm) then this could be deadly (depending on what your non-paced escape rhythm is). Versus for instance if once in a blue moon your heart rate becomes dangerously slow and you faint, then it's not going to cause a problem (given the probability of you needing the pacer backup at the exact moment you place your iPhone 12 on your chest).

Modern pacemakers (or electronics in general) are remarkably resistant to EMI (particularly since most pacemakers now are internet connected, they certainly can handle cellular/wifi signals nearby since they themselves generate wifi or BT). The magnet is a specific off-switch (that's a feature, like when I want to take an EKG of a patient with a pacemaker and want to see the underlying heart itself, I put a ring shaped magnet (we leave them stuck on the side of the EKG cart) so the pacemaker shuts off, so we can see, then after the procedure I remove the magnet. i make the same calculation of risk when I place the order for the EKG as to whether you can safely deactivate the pacer for a little while to do the EKG (some patients yes, some no)

Doc, are the newer Medtronic Micra AV’s susceptible to this issue given that there are no external parts as the device is implanted in the wall of the heart chamber? Thanks.

 

[swm]

So this would apply to any strong enough magnet?

yes, it would. obviously magnets looking like magnets are a clear cut case. on the other hand i don't think that non-iphone devices of all kind - like magnetically attached accesories, mounts, practically anything with a quality rare-earth-element magnet inside would pose less danger.

 

[now i see it]

iPhones are hazardous to everyone's health. If not your heart, your eyeballs are next in line

 

[cesko]

Tim Hardwick, quick heads up: your autocorrect being too aggressive . In the paragraph “. Curious about potential interference....” it should be Dr. Singh not Sign.

 

[sdf]

Curious about potential interference with electrical devices, Dr Sign and his colleagues took an iPhone 12 Pro and passed it over the chest of a patient with an implantable defibrillator.

This doesn’t sound like a very responsible experiment.

 

[ACHD]

And how many of those have pacemakers and how many of those with pacemakers will need that pacemaker that exact night. Let's not act like this is some extremely dangerous scenario, it's just (another) thing people with pacemakers need to adjust to.

You have pacemaker and built in defib mixed up.
The pacemaker is almost always running for a variety of reasons to keep the heart going. It is actually signaling the heart.
The defib is the run that isn’t always running and only does do when it detects a problem.
those with pacemakers can and will most likely die if the pacemaker stops working or malfunctions.
The ones with the built in defib can survive if it stops working. But if it malfunctions it can kill someone by firing and stopping the Rythem.

It’s not a joke. Or something that’s inconsequential

 

[Dustman]

We going to keep posting this every few days to reaffirm that Apple is trying to kill the vulnerable or...?

 

[Steve.P.JobsFan]

And how many of those have pacemakers and how many of those with pacemakers will need that pacemaker that exact night. Let's not act like this is some extremely dangerous scenario, it's just (another) thing people with pacemakers need to adjust to.

What???????? By your argument, it’s okay if a car doesn’t have functioning pre-tensioners in the seat belts because not everyone is going to get into a car accident and need a restraint device on any given night. Or people with severe allergies that cause potentially-lethal anaphylaxis (like myself) shouldn’t worry if our epinephrine auto-injectors don’t function, because what’s the chance that we’ll need to use it?

S*!t happens. Someone’s pacemaker being deactivated for ANY reason, unknowingly or otherwise, is completely unacceptable and dangerous unless under the guidance of their cardiologist. It’s OBVIOUSLY dangerous because you don’t get a pacemaker in the first place unless you’re at increased risk of something DANGEROUS happening to your health in the first place, FFS.

 

[PlutoPrime]

Yup. It's a conspiracy to sell more watches, and they got caught again. Maybe they will add the feature to the phone to get it to slow down the pacemaker when its battery gets weak.

What I said was completely in jest.

 

[armhol]

I'm glad it was medical doctors and not just any old bloke with a PhD!

 

[robertcoogan]

Point taken. I have a device and have had one for 20 years. The magnets are used to program, test and read the devices. I suppose you could go Bluetooth (or a medical equivalent) or some other wireless, but imagine getting hacked? Oopsie

The technology in pacemakers can still be hacked. Magnets don't prevent that.

 

[nitramluap]

It is pretty standard advice to keep ANY electronic device away from a pacemaker. Not sure why they need to suddenly make a fuss over this.

On the flip side, having a magnet like this handy could be a great way to override the pacing program (or deactivate the defibrillator in case of an ICD) on the off chance it malfunctions.

And not all pacemakers are ‘deactivated’ by a magnet - mostly the defibrillator component of an ICD. Usually a pacemaker is programmed to override pace at a set rate, which can actually be a lifesaver.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I would assume doctors tell them to put no electronics anywhere near their body even before iPhones had strong magnets.

Yeah, but this is an APPLE product and they know they’ll get some attention by stating the obvious. Remember back when EVERY 2G phone would make nearby speakers chirp as they received a call, but it only became a big notable point when iPhones did the same thing?

 

[actcyclist]

The problem with having an iPhone with magnets is the amount of use it gets. it’d be easy to accidentally get it to near your pacemaker.
be much safer to just get a phone without a magnet like the iPhones in it,

 

[goobot]

Yeah, but this is an APPLE product and they know they’ll get some attention by stating the obvious. Remember back when EVERY 2G phone would make nearby speakers chirp as they received a call, but it only became a big notable point when iPhones did the same thing?

Wow I forgot about cell phones making speakers squeak

 

[SAIRUS]

Apple will release their own pacemaker that works with the U1 chip to deactivate magnets for safety.

Of course they will release a firmware right after for it to squash some software bugs.

 

[portland_bill]

Deliberate hardware design so you have to buy an Apple Watch to be alerted to your imminent phone-induced heart attack

 

[Mr. Dee]

Apple should put this in their testimonials. ‘My Apple Watch told me my iPhone was going to kill me’ 😂

 

[Phil.O]

So this would apply to any strong enough magnet?

I believe so. At a previous job (industrial, mechanical products, nothing to do with phones but they contained magnets) someone made an off-hand remark about magnets upsetting pacemakers so as part of our due diligence we had to look into it. We searched industrial standards and also reached out to NIOSH for guidance.

There was none.

My point here is that manufacturers will need a defined standard for (something like) max magnetic field strength a defined distance from the product so they can say it's "pacemaker safe" or somesuch or this will be an ambulance chasers dream come true.

 

[DrV]

So this would apply to any strong enough magnet?

Yes, because pacemakers are designed to respond to an external static magnetic field.

Pacemakers (there are different types, but let’s call all such IMDs pacemakers) need to be switched into a “safe mode” in some cases. This need has been there as long as there have been pacemakers, and the original solution was to embed a small Reed relay (mechanical switch sensitive to magnetic fields) into the device.

The technology has changed, but the same functionality is still there. If the device encounters a strong enough magnetic field it switches to the safest operating mode available. While the reason is historical, it still has a good use in emergencies, as there is no need to know the make and model of the device or have the device specific programmer available (no standards).

Magnetic field used to be part of the communication protocol (parameter programming, diagnostics), but most pacemakers do not use it anymore. All telemetry is usually carried out on radio frequencies.

So, if the magnets of the iPhone 12 switch off the pacemaker when the phone is close enough, everything is relatively straightforward and not extremely dangerous, as the normal operation should resume after removing the phone, and as the device should switch to its safest mode. Of course, death is always one heartbeat away (the last one), and safety is a relative term.

This topic requires attention, but the attention should be directed to all electronic equipment. It is very difficult to know which piece of equipment has permanent magnets. There have been reports on headphones (which may have very strong magnets) interfering with pacemakers for the same reason.

 

[Apple_Robert]

That’s nice and all that you seem informed with your pacemaker but not everyone is as observant or cautious as you. This is a HUGE problem for Apple, and unless they want to face a slew of product liability lawsuits for strict liability, its likely best for Apple to remove the magnet and scrap this feature or design an alternative where the magnet is not as strong.

How is it a huge problem for Apple? Apple can't prevent stupid. A lot of people are walking around doing things with various devices that are contraindicated, even though said people have been advised by doctors otherwise.