Medications

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
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I recently started taking Zorcor, a Statin class medicine for high cholesterol. My cholesterol is high, but not horrendously high, but has been just over the max recommended of 200 for about 4 years now. Just turned 61. Never had this problem when I was younger and running, but could be that my diet is catching up with me, which I am altering, and I no longer run, but walk briskly due to a bad back.

Just had a physical, doctor recommended it, and I finally gave in. The instructions were to take this once a day at night, just prior to bed. I took it for the first time last night, stayed up an hour after taking it, and within about 15 minutes, I experienced mild waves of nausea. This morning I'm feeling just a tad off, barely noticeable and it is fading as the day passes. I researched it and found that nausea is one of the common symptoms. I assume this might be why it is instructed to take at night time when going to sleep. However one online source said to take it with a big meal to mitigate nausea, except that people don't usually eat large meals just before going to bed.

So anyone out there taking this or a statin medication for cholesterol? I'd like to benefit from your experience. I'll be taking my second pill tonight and I wonder if this "nausea" thing is something that will pass as the medicine gets established in my system or will it be a reoccurring thing?

Thanks! :)
 
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NewbieCanada

macrumors 68030
Oct 9, 2007
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I haven't had nausea from a statin (Lipitor and Crestor), but the reason I was given for taking it at night is that your liver manufactures cholesterol mainly while sleeping.
 

Roller

macrumors 68030
Jun 25, 2003
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It depends on the statin. For simvastatin (Zocor), some studies have shown that it is more effective taken in the evening than the morning. For others, including atrorvastatin (Lipitor), which I take, this doesn't seem to hold true. I've been taking statins for >10 years (I also just turned 61), and haven't had any significant ill effects, other than a slight alteration of liver function.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
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May 5, 2008
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Thanks guys! I'll just have to see how it goes. If nausea continues, I'll most likely ask to change to something else, but if I'm asleep, it might not matter. I need to research this, is a statin a statin, or can there be significant differences? I'm due back in to the doctors in 3 months for a check on liver function and general blood work.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
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That link I posted says:

Primary prevention

Debate exists over whether statins are effective in those with high cholesterol, but no history of heart disease.[12] The best meta-analysis (with individual patient data) did not find a mortality benefit in those at high risk but without prior cardiovascular disease.[12] Other reviews concluded there is a mortality and morbidity benefit,[13][14] but there were concerns regarding the quality of the evidence.[4] With respect to quality of life, evidence of improvement is limited when statins are used for primary prevention.[4] No studies as of 2010 show improved clinical outcomes in children with high cholesterol though statins decrease cholesterol levels.[15]
Interesting. There is no heart disease in my family that I am aware of and most of my Grandparents lived to ripe old ages, although one Grandfather died in his 60s due to leukemia (as I recall). My Father is 86 and has really abused his body over the years with alcholism and smoking, but he kicked alcohol in his 40s and smoking in his 60's and seems to be in decent shape, which I think shows the influence of "good" genes. Taking a cholesterol medicine is just one step to try to increase the odds. I think the major concern with cholesterol is heart attack.
 

Meister

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You guys know that high cholesterol does not cause heart failure. A high carb and trans fat diet does. They cause a chronic inflamation of the capillar walls (like sandpaper for your vens) which in turn causes a subtle strain on your immunity system and in turn on your heart. Cholesterol is merely a transmitter. Lowering your natural cholesterol level with medication is ludacris. The fat-cholesterol-heart problems-myth seems to still stick around.
If your doctor told you to do this then you should switch doctors asap.

http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy
 
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nebo1ss

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
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I recently started taking Zorcor, a Statin class medicine for high cholesterol. My cholesterol is high, but not horrendously high, but has been just over the max recommended of 200 for about 4 years now. Just turned 61. Never had this problem when I was younger and running, but could be that my diet is catching up with me, which I am altering, and I no longer run, but walk briskly due to a bad back.

Just had a physical, doctor recommended it, and I finally gave in. The instructions were to take this once a day at night, just prior to bed. I took it for the first time last night, stayed up an hour after taking it, and within about 15 minutes, I experienced mild waves of nausea. This morning I'm feeling just a tad off, barely noticeable and it is fading as the day passes. I researched it and found that nausea is one of the common symptoms. I assume this might be why it is instructed to take at night time when going to sleep. However one online source said to take it with a big meal to mitigate nausea, except that people don't usually eat large meals just before going to bed.

So anyone out there taking this or a statin medication for cholesterol? I'd like to benefit from your experience. I'll be taking my second pill tonight and I wonder if this "nausea" thing is something that will pass as the medicine gets established in my system or will it be a reoccurring thing?

Thanks! :)
Been taking Statin for years never experienced the problems you are having. With regard to exercise, I also have a bad back in fact had Surgery for it which helped a bit. I would recommend Bicycling I find it great for getting exercise with back problems, probably the support you get from the saddle or something.
 

.Andy

macrumors 68030
Jul 18, 2004
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You guys know that high cholesterol does not cause heart failure.
Well it does. It is a risk factor for atherosclerosis which in turn causes ischaemic heart disease which in turn is a leading cause of heart failure.

Meister said:
Lowering your natural cholesterol level with medication is ludacris.
Only if you equate evidence-based as "ludacris". Lowering cholesterol with statins has been shown to decrease adverse cardiovascular outcomes in a myriad of strong trials.

Meister said:
The fat-cholesterol-heart problems-myth seems to still stick around.
If your doctor told you to do this then you should switch doctors asap.

http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy
I'd trust doctors and evidence-based medicine over an acupuncturist and their non-evidence based money making shams any day. YMMV.
 
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Meister

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Well it does. It is a risk factor for atherosclerosis which in turn causes ischaemic heart disease which in turn is a leading cause of heart failure.
Only if you equate evidence-based as "ludacris". Lowering cholesterol with statins has been shown to decrease adverse cardiovascular outcomes in a myriad of string trials.
I'd trust doctors and evidence-based medicine over an acupuncturist and their non-evidence based money making shams any day. YMMV.
Messing with your bodys cholesterol level by inducing drugs into your system is a terrible idea.
Your body has good reason to produce more or less cholesterol. Why on earth would you want to mess with that?

Very recent cambridge study: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1846638

http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Dr-Blaylock/cholesterol-statin-drugs-inflammation-DrRussell-Blaylock/2013/10/02/id/528866/
http://anh-europe.org/news/blowing-the-lid-on-statins-and-the-cholesterol-myth
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/267834.php
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/october/cholesterol-myth-what-really-causes-heart-disease/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/22/debunking-the-science-behind-lowering-cholesterol-levels.aspx

I wouldnt worry so much about artificaily lowering your cholesterol than watch your body, excercise and diet.
The best thing is to eat food that our body naturally is acustomed to. That means fruit, vegetables, meat and fish.
Avoid processed food like carbohydrates, bread and vegetable oil.
 
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Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
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I wouldnt worry so much about artificaily lowering your cholesterol [/B]than watch your body, excercise and diet.
The best thing is to eat food that our body naturally is acustomed to. That means fruit, vegetables, meat and fish.
Avoid processed food like carbohydrates, bread and vegetable oil.
I would generally agree with the post above, with the exception of the highlighted portion.

While dietary sources of cholesterol are avoidable, familial hypercholesterolemia is not. Very high cholesterol levels caused by that condition need to be lowered, and at this point statins are the best available method. If one has familial hypercholesterolemia even total avoidance of dietary cholesterol will not be effective.
 

Meister

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While dietary sources of cholesterol are avoidable, familial hypercholesterolemia is not. Very high cholesterol levels caused by that condition need to be lowered, and at this point statins are the best available method. If one has familial hypercholesterolemia even total avoidance of dietary cholesterol will not be effective.
Ok. Extremely high cholesterol caused by a genetic condition might be an exception.
The OP doesnt have that condition. His doctor is putting him on drugs just for the hell of it.
My parents always told me to stay away from doctors and as I get older I more and more understand why.
 
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Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
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Ok. Extremely high cholesterol caused by a genetic condition might be an exception.
The OP doesnt have that condition. His doctor is putting him on drugs just for the hell of it.
OP sates that his cholesterol level is about 200. That is very high, so I would not consider prescribing statins for a person with that level of cholesterol prescribing "for the hell of it".

LDL cholesterol can build up on the walls of your arteries and increase your chances of getting heart disease. That is why LDL cholesterol is referred to as "bad" cholesterol. The lower your LDL cholesterol number, the lower your risk. The table below explains what the numbers mean.

LDL Cholesterol LDL-Cholesterol Category
Less than 100 Optimal
100 - 129 Near optimal/above optimal
130 - 159 Borderline high
160 - 189 High
190 and above Very high
Source
 

Meister

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OP sates that his cholesterol level is about 200. That is very high, so I would not consider prescribing statins for a person with that level of cholesterol prescribing "for the hell of it".
Source
1. High cholesterol by itself might not be a symptom and doesnt necessarily need to be treated
2. Your source is about ldl-cholesterol. the OP made it seem like he meant overall cholesterol
3. Cholesterol levels rise with age and just over 200 is in fact very low for a 61 year old male
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3422148 and http://bibd.uni-giessen.de/gdoc/1999/uni/d990002.pdf)
Sadly one of the links isnt available in english
 
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.Andy

macrumors 68030
Jul 18, 2004
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Messing with your bodys cholesterol level by inducing drugs into your system is a terrible idea.
Again, only if you think evidence-based medicine is a "terrible idea".

Your body has good reason to produce more or less cholesterol. Why on earth would you want to mess with that?
This is a terrible logical fallacy. Your body also produces blood clots that cause heart attacks, pulmonary emboli, and DVTs. It also produces cancer. Just because your body produces something doesn't make it normal nor does it make it good.

This study says nothing about statins. It is a meta-analysis of dietary fats.

Mercola and newsmax. Two of the absolute worst sources of information in the Internet. You are plumbing the depths of depravity.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
Original poster
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
You guys know that high cholesterol does not cause heart failure. A high carb and trans fat diet does. They cause a chronic inflamation of the capillar walls (like sandpaper for your vens) which in turn causes a subtle strain on your immunity system and in turn on your heart. Cholesterol is merely a transmitter. Lowering your natural cholesterol level with medication is ludacris. The fat-cholesterol-heart problems-myth seems to still stick around.
If your doctor told you to do this then you should switch doctors asap.

http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy
Plaque buildup leads to cardiac arrest. Happened to my fit neighbor when he was in his 40's. However he was a heavy smoker which I believe can constrict arteries making plaque buildup more likely.

Been taking Statin for years never experienced the problems you are having. With regard to exercise, I also have a bad back in fact had Surgery for it which helped a bit. I would recommend Bicycling I find it great for getting exercise with back problems, probably the support you get from the saddle or something.
Thanks!

Messing with your bodys cholesterol level by inducing drugs into your system is a terrible idea.
Your body has good reason to produce more or less cholesterol. Why on earth would you want to mess with that?

Very recent cambridge study: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1846638

http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Dr-Blaylock/cholesterol-statin-drugs-inflammation-DrRussell-Blaylock/2013/10/02/id/528866/
http://anh-europe.org/news/blowing-the-lid-on-statins-and-the-cholesterol-myth
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/267834.php
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/october/cholesterol-myth-what-really-causes-heart-disease/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/22/debunking-the-science-behind-lowering-cholesterol-levels.aspx

I wouldnt worry so much about artificaily lowering your cholesterol than watch your body, excercise and diet.
The best thing is to eat food that our body naturally is acustomed to. That means fruit, vegetables, meat and fish.
Avoid processed food like carbohydrates, bread and vegetable oil.
I did not read through your links (yet) but I'll get to them and add some of my findings at the end of this post.

Well it does. It is a risk factor for atherosclerosis which in turn causes ischaemic heart disease which in turn is a leading cause of heart failure.
This is what I am familiar with.


I would generally agree with the post above, with the exception of the highlighted portion.

While dietary sources of cholesterol are avoidable, familial hypercholesterolemia is not. Very high cholesterol levels caused by that condition need to be lowered, and at this point statins are the best available method. If one has familial hypercholesterolemia even total avoidance of dietary cholesterol will not be effective.
Thank you!

After reading the following links, I have to rethink my decision to take Zocor. My links:

A really interesting article: I had forgotten that the liver produces cholesterol and that did not know the bolded below: What Most Doctors Won't Tell You About Cholesterol

Here are some facts from his book:

Cholesterol is not a deadly poison, but a substance that you need to be healthy. High cholesterol itself does not cause heart disease.

People who have low blood cholesterol have the same rates of heart disease as people who have high blood cholesterol.

The cholesterol found in your blood comes from two sources: cholesterol in food that you eat and cholesterol that your liver makes from other nutrients.

The amount of cholesterol that your liver produces varies according to how much cholesterol you eat. If you eat a lot of cholesterol, your liver produces less. If you don't eat much cholesterol, your liver produces more. This is why a low cholesterol diet does not typically decrease a person's blood cholesterol by more than a few percent.

Drugs that solely lower your cholesterol do not decrease your risk of dying from heart disease, nor do they increase your lifespan. These drugs pose dangers to your health and may decrease your lifespan.

The newer cholesterol-lowering drugs - called statins - do reduce your risk of heart disease, but through mechanisms that are not related to lower blood cholesterol. And alarmingly, statins like lipitor mevacor, zocor, pravachol, and lescol are known to stimulate cancer in rodents.
Great article:
What's the difference between LDL and HDL cholesterol? Why excessive LDL is bad, and high HDL is good.

How to encourage your body to produce less cholesterol:
Portfolioplus Diet: Chapter four Stop Making Cholesterol
 

Meister

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This is a terrible logical fallacy. Your body also produces blood clots that cause heart attacks, pulmonary emboli, and DVTs. It also produces cancer. Just because your body produces something doesn't make it normal nor does it make it good.
You have a good point there. I still dont think that messing with your cholesterol is a good idea unless a medical condition is involved. High cholesterol initself is not a medical condition.
This study says nothing about statins. It is a meta-analysis of dietary fats.
It is. Over decades doctors and pharmaceutical companies have promoted a certain diet to lower cholesterol.
Fast food restaurants even had to change their recipies under public pressure.

McD for example used to fry in animal fat they had to change to processed trans fats.
Now we know that this was nonsense and made millions of people sick.
Now the same doctors and corporations promote these medications.
This study (among many) debunks this nutritional myth.

Mercola and newsmax. Two of the absolute worst sources of information in the Internet. You are plumbing the depths of depravity.
Opinions about medicine are controversial and so are opinions about sources on the Net.
I have to admit that i had some better sources but not on hand atm.

----------

Plaque buildup leads to cardiac arrest.
I did not read through your links (yet) but I'll get to them and add some of my findings at the end of this post.
Chronic inflamation leads to cardiac arrest, too.

It is your health. Please take everything (including my links) with a grain of salt and healthy scepticism.

I wish you good health :)
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
Original poster
May 5, 2008
17,036
16,503
The Misty Mountains
Messing with your bodys cholesterol level by inducing drugs into your system is a terrible idea.
Your body has good reason to produce more or less cholesterol. Why on earth would you want to mess with that?

Very recent cambridge study: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1846638
First glance, too technical.
http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Dr-Blaylock/cholesterol-statin-drugs-inflammation-DrRussell-Blaylock/2013/10/02/id/528866/
Good reading!
http://anh-europe.org/news/blowing-the-lid-on-statins-and-the-cholesterol-myth
Good reading!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html
Good reading!
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/267834.php
Good reading!
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/october/cholesterol-myth-what-really-causes-heart-disease/
Good reading!
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/22/debunking-the-science-behind-lowering-cholesterol-levels.aspx
Good reading!

I wouldnt worry so much about artificaily lowering your cholesterol than watch your body, excercise and diet.
The best thing is to eat food that our body naturally is acustomed to. That means fruit, vegetables, meat and fish.
Avoid processed food like carbohydrates, bread and vegetable oil.
I made some notes in your post. Thanks for taking the time. Right now, based on an absence of heart disease running in my family, I am considering stopping this medication. I've seen two different doctors in the last 3 years and both of them saw cholesterol above the recommended level and they seem to automatically say "take cholesterol lowering medication". And they've offered me no advice on the pros or cons of taking such medication. :-\
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
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New England, USA
I made some notes in your post. Thanks for taking the time. Right now, based on an absence of heart disease running in my family, I am considering stopping this medication. I've seen two different doctors in the last 3 years and both of them saw cholesterol above the recommended level and they seem to automatically say "take cholesterol lowering medication". And they've offered me no advice on the pros or cons of taking such medication. :-\
Wait...I'm not clear on you point here. 3 docs, seeing that your cholesterol was dangerously high, recommended taking a statin. Of course they "automatically" say it...it's a proper and scientifically supported clinical response.

Is that bad? Or does it demonstrate that multiple docs, seeing your lipid levels were unacceptably high, were concerned that you needed to lower those levels.

Please understand, whether you take statins or not is none of my business. I'm just questioning the logic of the post.

Oh...wait...I forgot...high cholesterol is not a medical condition. It is here on Earth...but what one chooses to do about it, or not, is a totally individual decision. Just suggesting that the decision, whatever it might be, be based on solid scientific data.:)
 

Meister

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3 docs, seeing that your cholesterol was dangerously high, recommended taking a statin.
Oh...wait...I forgot...high cholesterol is not a medical condition. It is here on Earth...but what one chooses to do about it, or not, is a totally individual decision. Just suggesting that the decision, whatever it might be, be based on solid scientific data.:)
He mentioned two docs. High cholesterol could be a sign of a medical condition.
The OP should seriosly consider the advice given by two doctors but also take it with a grain of salt.
Like all advice.
The role of cholesterol counts in predicting heart disease is highly controversial.

I have seen doctors giving medical advice based on very solid scientific data and they were horribly wrong!
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
Original poster
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
Wait...I'm not clear on you point here. 3 docs, seeing that your cholesterol was dangerously high, recommended taking a statin. Of course they "automatically" say it...it's a proper and scientifically supported clinical response.

Is that bad? Or does it demonstrate that multiple docs, seeing your lipid levels were unacceptably high, were concerned that you needed to lower those levels.

Please understand, whether you take statins or not is none of my business. I'm just questioning the logic of the post.

Oh...wait...I forgot...high cholesterol is not a medical condition. It is here on Earth...but what one chooses to do about it, or not, is a totally individual decision. Just suggesting that the decision, whatever it might be, be based on solid scientific data.:)
Thanks for asking. It's 2 doctors in 3 years. Apparently there is a reason I've resisted. ;) After I've educated myself online, it seems like these doctors should speak of the pros and cons of these medicines, along with their effectiveness, and any controversy surrounding them. I got none of that, "just take this". The info in the links I've read in this thread really troubles me.

My test results: (standard range)
Cholesterol 208 (100-199)
Triglycerides 214 (0-149)
HDL Cholesterol 29 (>39)
LDL Cholesterol 136 (0-99)
 

Meister

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My test results: (standard range)
Cholesterol 208 (100-199)
Triglycerides 214 (0-149)
HDL Cholesterol 29 (>39)
LDL Cholesterol 136 (0-99)
I know the people on this thread will jump at me again but please read up very sincerely on cholesterol counts.
Your count is considered quite normal for your age.
Also: your count can vary from day to day.

The 'ideal' counts given by the lab are very unprecise since counts vary acording to gender, age and your diet that day.

Prescribing medication based on one blood reading is irresponsible to say the least.
 
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