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For the love of your education system, do make the switch! I'm an engineering student from Canada. So I have to learn both imperial and SI. Imperial is such a pain in the ass. The units don't mean anything and they are not made to fit with each other so you have conversions factors everywhere. Also, pound force and pound mass, WTF?

Really, most opinions I see in the US to keep the imperial system is because you're not accustomed to it. Fahrenheit being more accurate than Celsius or Kelvins, really? Just add a decimal, that's the beauty of it, you add a decimal point or a factor of ten and Earth doesn't suddenly implode. I think it grows on you, you can relate things much more easily, let's say you're comparing something in feet or inches, or pounds and onces, you don't get a real feel for it.

Is it change just for change's sake? Up to you, basically everyone else on Earth made their choice. ;)
 
I don't think so, and I'm not being sarcastic.

Temperature is a great example. Celsius and Kelvin are fantastic for science and engineering for obvious reasons, but when it comes to everyday uses, Fahrenheit makes more sense. It's very intuitive to think of numbers on a 100 scale. That's why when you're looking at the weather or taking someone's body temperature, it's easier to get a grasp of what is "high" or "low." Fahrenheit is also more accurate for casual uses because it can express smaller changes more easily than Celsius.
I think I have to disagree. It may be easier for Americans to grasp the "highs" and "lows" of the Fahrenheit scale, but any European would have a different concept of high and low. Also, the difference in Celsius units is rather insignificant. For example, the difference between 37 and 38 degrees Celsius is 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, hardly a noticeable difference when it comes to weather forecasts.

The metric system also lacks easy naming schemes for everyday sizes. Recipes, for example, would have to be written out in ml rather than cups or spoons. In such a situation, base 10 is not helpful at all because recipes are rarely divided or multiplied by 10. The metric system could in fact be worse for such applications because cutting 473 ml in half is more of a pain than cutting 2 cups in half (and yes, while recipes could theoretically be modified to be in flat metric ratios, the fact is that there are far too many recipes in existence already for that to be realistic in the short-medium term).
I'm not so sure. If a recipe calls for 2 tablespoons, is it not just as easy to measure out 30ml? Might using one graduated measuring "cup" be easier than a series of various-sized spoons and cups? For dry goods, grams are easily measured on a scale. With practice and experience, it's quicker and more precise than measuring exactly three cups of leveled flour: you can just sift the flour into your mixing bowl until the scale reads 375 grams. Indeed this method uses less dishes, too.

Are there really any benefits to the Customary scale, or do we just perceive benefits because it's what we're used to? And if the latter is the case, why make American students learn two systems of units when one fulfills all needs?
 
For the love of your education system, do make the switch! I'm an engineering student from Canada. So I have to learn both imperial and SI. Imperial is such a pain in the ass. The units don't mean anything and they are not made to fit with each other so you have conversions factors everywhere. Also, pound force and pound mass, WTF?

Pound force and pound mass compared to kg's and N's? really? Not that hard to grasp lol

Additionally, you would be surprised at how many engineering applications here in the US still use Imperial


Are there really any benefits to the Customary scale, or do we just perceive benefits because it's what we're used to? And if the latter is the case, why make American students learn two systems of units when one fulfills all needs?

I have to ask you, aside from base 10, what makes metric superior?

If it is to have an easier time with conversions and what not, then why would I leave a system that I am very familiar with, even if it is not base 10?

I don't believe one system is better than the other. They are just different.
 
You think you've got it bad? In Britain we have
milk and beer by the pint
coke by the litre
roads by the mile
tablecloths/fabric etc by the metre
petrol/diesel by the litre
fuel efficiency is measured in miles per gallon but carbon emissions are measured in grams per kilometer.
weight of people in stones and pounds
sugar/flour etc in kilograms
fruit by the pound
cheese by grams
bread loaves are labelled in grams, bread rolls sold by the dozen.
height in feet and inches.

and so on. It's a real mess. Basically we started to change, then stopped because people didn't like it. Then the EU decided certain things must be measured imperial, so now we have a have way house where nothing makes sense.

We switched from pricing petrol in gallons to litres when petrol got to 99.9 pence per gallon, and it was easier to change the signs to litres than add another digit. :rolleyes:
 
I have to ask you, aside from base 10, what makes metric superior?

If it is to have an easier time with conversions and what not, then why would I leave a system that I am very familiar with, even if it is not base 10?

I don't believe one system is better than the other. They are just different.
That's sort of like asking, "aside from saving lives, what makes vaccines so great?" Base-10 is exactly what makes metric superior. Having a system of units based entirely on decimals is extremely powerful. You can convert between units simply by moving a decimal point, express very small/large numbers in scientific notation, and clearly see the greater of two numbers with precision clearly expressed.

For example, which is greater? 5/16 or 7/18

And if I've measured a golfball to be 42/25 inches in diameter, what is the precision of my measurement? Expressed as decimals, I know that a golfball measured at 42.67mm is precise to the nearest hundredth of a millimeter.

Now, of course you can express inches, feet, yards, etc. in decimal notation, but then you can't convert them without a calculator. If I tell you that a golfball has a diameter of 0.14 feet, how many inches is that? (Turns out to be 1.68.)

Besides, let's not forget that the metric system has popularity on it's side. Costly mistakes are made every year because units weren't converted between metric and customary correctly.
 
You think you've got it bad? In Britain we have
milk and beer by the pint
coke by the litre
roads by the mile
tablecloths/fabric etc by the metre
petrol/diesel by the litre
fuel efficiency is measured in miles per gallon but carbon emissions are measured in grams per kilometer.
weight of people in stones and pounds
sugar/flour etc in kilograms
fruit by the pound
cheese by grams
bread loaves are labelled in grams, bread rolls sold by the dozen.
height in feet and inches.

and so on. It's a real mess. Basically we started to change, then stopped because people didn't like it. Then the EU decided certain things must be measured imperial, so now we have a have way house where nothing makes sense.

We switched from pricing petrol in gallons to litres when petrol got to 99.9 pence per gallon, and it was easier to change the signs to litres than add another digit. :rolleyes:

I grew up in Greece using only SI so it was very strange for me to measure weight in stones as I haven't heard it before. Luckily everyone in Scotland also knew their weight in kilos too.

My biggest problem was that distances where in miles and therefore everything was way further that I though. It's just an inconvenience but after a while you get used to it.
 
Really, most opinions I see in the US to keep the imperial system is because you're not accustomed to it. Fahrenheit being more accurate than Celsius or Kelvins, really? Just add a decimal, that's the beauty of it, you add a decimal point or a factor of ten and Earth doesn't suddenly implode.

I know this sounds incredulous and insulting, but people are terrible at math. The more of it you make them think about (whether it's decimals or fractions or anything else) the worse they perform. It's why you'll see almost every recommended quantity expressed as a whole number. It reduces error for the untrained, and makes expressing the value simpler.

Is it change just for change's sake? Up to you, basically everyone else on Earth made their choice. ;)

Did they really? How many people, after you factor out colonization, dictatorship, and a complete absence of prior standardization, actually switched? I can think of only a few countries, none of which were as large and as diverse as the US is.

Besides, it's not as if sciences and engineering are out of the loop. Only civilian uses are Standard. How does it affect you, a Canadian, if grandma bakes using cups and Fahrenheit?

I think I have to disagree. It may be easier for Americans to grasp the "highs" and "lows" of the Fahrenheit scale, but any European would have a different concept of high and low. Also, the difference in Celsius units is rather insignificant. For example, the difference between 37 and 38 degrees Celsius is 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, hardly a noticeable difference when it comes to weather forecasts.

No, but 1.8 is a big difference when it comes to taking a baby's temperature or figuring out if your meat is done just right. For a child, 99 is considered a mild fevor and is 37.22. 98.6 is considered "normal" and is 37 flat in C. However, if you had a mother trying to keep track of her child's fever over a period of time, the small variations between those two temps would be a lot more important. The total variation between 99, 99.5, and 100 F is so small on the C scale (37.22, 37.5, 37.77) that it's a lot easier to make mistakes in recording or reporting the results. Sure it's easy to do when it's your job in a professional setting, but lay people make mistakes all the time. Using a scale that makes the number differences larger (and psychologically significant, because you can bet no mother is going to forget that her child has a fever of 100) helps reduce those errors.

I'm not so sure. If a recipe calls for 2 tablespoons, is it not just as easy to measure out 30ml? Might using one graduated measuring "cup" be easier than a series of various-sized spoons and cups? For dry goods, grams are easily measured on a scale. With practice and experience, it's quicker and more precise than measuring exactly three cups of leveled flour: you can just sift the flour into your mixing bowl until the scale reads 375 grams. Indeed this method uses less dishes, too.

There are a lot of measuring cups and spoons that do come graduated these days (no, they're not in the "beyond" section of BBB), but it's not always possible to go by weight. Weight also doesn't solve much because it would add an additional piece of equipment that isn't needed for a lot of recipes. It's also impractical to keep weighing out ingredients, especially if their net weight is going to be in the few grams. You also probably wouldn't save any dishes because flour is usually added into other wet ingredients like butter and sugar separately, so a second bowl would be used regardless.

Other than that, any vessel marked "30ml" used for measuring would essentially be a tablespoon. A rose by any other name, really. Except that the 30ml rose is clunkier to say. In fact, you'd still need names for all of the common measures even using SI. Is everyone really going to go around calling a cup the "237ml vessel?" Are people going to start calling it the "liter quartet of milk?" What would you do for the measures that have a secondary meaning? Will people still be able to call it a "pint" if it's sold as 500ml?
Are there really any benefits to the Customary scale, or do we just perceive benefits because it's what we're used to? And if the latter is the case, why make American students learn two systems of units when one fulfills all needs?

There are some (albeit few these days). For daily tasks, the composite numbers in Imperial units are easy to halve and quarter. This has less relevance today with prepackaged food and digital equipment, but at one time it made practical sense for a lot more uses. The residual benefits are still present in home baking and similar activities where base 10 doesn't help, but those are the few things that still make heavy use of standard units anyhow. I don't think it's that onerous to know these days, especially with apps, Google, and conversion charts everywhere around us.
 
There is a strong economic argument for completing the switch now in the U.S. as it can help promote more trade. With the current weak dollar this is a good time to make a stronger push for more exports. Having products with measurement units that already match those of most of the rest of the world reduces costs and enables more products to be exposed to the international market. This means that short term costs to switch should be a good investment for the country overall. U.S. consumers likewise can benefit from reduced prices for some products and a greater variety of products available.

There are also benefits from reduced time spent on education of the outdated system and more natural proficiency with the newer more universal system. Students, scientists, and engineers in particular can have a more intuitive grasp of work done internationally and save time spent on performing conversions. This makes them more productive and competitive when compared to international colleagues. The cost in time and money for conversions of data and products is actually quite significant in certain industries.
 
I'll preface by saying I'm an engineer, so I see the merits of the metric system.

However, the reason I think Americans have such a problem with it is because there is no analog for one foot. You go from decimeters (which nobody actually uses) straight to a meter.

It can be very difficult to get a feel for how tall someone who is 165 cm is.
 
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Working in medicine in the US, this us the bane of my existence.
 
No, but 1.8 is a big difference when it comes to taking a baby's temperature or figuring out if your meat is done just right. For a child, 99 is considered a mild fevor and is 37.22. 98.6 is considered "normal" and is 37 flat in C. However, if you had a mother trying to keep track of her child's fever over a period of time, the small variations between those two temps would be a lot more important. The total variation between 99, 99.5, and 100 F is so small on the C scale (37.22, 37.5, 37.77) that it's a lot easier to make mistakes in recording or reporting the results. Sure it's easy to do when it's your job in a professional setting, but lay people make mistakes all the time. Using a scale that makes the number differences larger (and psychologically significant, because you can bet no mother is going to forget that her child has a fever of 100) helps reduce those errors.
First of all, using two decimal places is not necessary for recording a baby's temperature, Fahrenheit or Celsius. 37.2 C is equivalent to 98.96 F, and 37.22 C is equal to 98.996 F. The hundredth's place is clearly superfluous. Therefore, your numbers reported to one decimal place in Celsius become (37.2, 37.5, 37.8), corresponding to 99, 99.5, 100.0 Fahrenheit. ...Plenty accurate for household thermometer readings.

I see no reason why 99, 99.5, and 100 are easier to track than 37.2, 37.5, and 37.7. As you said, we accept body temp to be 98.6 and 37.0 in Celsius. If decimals are difficult to remember, then clearly we should pick the scale that represents normal body temp as an integer, right? ;)

There are a lot of measuring cups and spoons that do come graduated these days (no, they're not in the "beyond" section of BBB), but it's not always possible to go by weight.

Weight also doesn't solve much because it would add an additional piece of equipment that isn't needed for a lot of recipes.
Perhaps your set of measuring cups is the additional piece of equipment. Indeed you wouldn't need them. For a recipe in SI, the only items you would need are an electronic balance, graduating measuring "cup," and a graduated cylinder. No series of cups or spoons required (although, they do of course come in metric for those so inclined).

It's also impractical to keep weighing out ingredients, especially if their net weight is going to be in the few grams. You also probably wouldn't save any dishes because flour is usually added into other wet ingredients like butter and sugar separately, so a second bowl would be used regardless.
It might seem that way to you, but the majority of the world uses weight to measure dry ingredients. For them it's just as easy.

Plus it's more intuitive and more accurate to measure dry goods by weight.

Other than that, any vessel marked "30ml" used for measuring would essentially be a tablespoon. A rose by any other name, really. Except that the 30ml rose is clunkier to say. In fact, you'd still need names for all of the common measures even using SI.
Why would you need alternative names? A recipe would call for "30ml" of any given liquid. There's no need to call it anything else.

Is everyone really going to go around calling a cup the "237ml vessel?"
Well, no one would ask for a 237ml vessel because that's an arbitrary number based on a different system of units. But if you wanted, yes, you could measure that amount in a graduated measuring cup (or weigh it on your balance).

Are people going to start calling it the "liter quartet of milk?" What would you do for the measures that have a secondary meaning? Will people still be able to call it a "pint" if it's sold as 500ml?
I suspect people would call it a "quarter liter," much like I would say "quarter gallon."

And no, you wouldn't call 500ml a "pint" because, well, why would you? :confused:

...But countries using SI do call 500ml a demi-liter ("demi" meaning "half").

There are some (albeit few these days). For daily tasks, the composite numbers in Imperial units are easy to halve and quarter.
This is the case with Si units as well. 500, 250, 125, 75, etc. Though SI units can also be divided by any number you wish. Want to make 1/5 of the recipe? ...Just divide all the numbers by five.

This has less relevance today with prepackaged food and digital equipment, but at one time it made practical sense for a lot more uses. The residual benefits are still present in home baking and similar activities where base 10 doesn't help, but those are the few things that still make heavy use of standard units anyhow. I don't think it's that onerous to know these days, especially with apps, Google, and conversion charts everywhere around us.
No, but it is onerous for kids to learn SI units, which is a mandatory skill in this global world. Like I said, why teach kids two units of measure if one will suffice?
 
You think you've got it bad? In Britain we have
milk and beer by the pint
coke by the litre
roads by the mile
tablecloths/fabric etc by the metre
petrol/diesel by the litre
fuel efficiency is measured in miles per gallon but carbon emissions are measured in grams per kilometer.
weight of people in stones and pounds
sugar/flour etc in kilograms
fruit by the pound
cheese by grams
bread loaves are labelled in grams, bread rolls sold by the dozen.
height in feet and inches.

It is a mess here. I wish we would switch fully to metric. I think we are getting there, very slowly. For example, 15 years ago the weather used to always be in oC and then oF, now just oC is very common. Supermarkets sell fruit and veg with the per kg price much larger than per lb. The around the corner sells milk by the litre which is nice. More and more people are using metres and kilograms to measure their height and weight. Some things are more problematic, there are millions of pint glasses for beer and all our road signs would be a fortune to replace with kilometres!

The imperial system is crazy, but I think it will slowly but surely die out in the UK. Metric was pushed in about 40 years ago? Give it another 40 and I think we will be fully there!

Hopefully our American cousins will finally see sense and start talking in civilised speak soon.
 
There are a few places where metric measurements are now standard here in the USA:

1. Soft drink bottles are now measured in one and two-liter sizes for the large bottles.

2. Medicine are all measured in milligrams for the amount of medicine in each pill.

The problem with the rest going metric is the ENORMOUS conversion cost for packaging sizes, home appliance settings, and changing road signs. Maybe the plan should be phased in over a ten-year period....
 
Pound force and pound mass compared to kg's and N's? really? Not that hard to grasp lol

Then making the switch to metric should be easier for you than you think.


I have to ask you, aside from base 10, what makes metric superior?

That isn't enough?



CalBoy said:
The metric system also lacks easy naming schemes for everyday sizes. Recipes, for example, would have to be written out in ml rather than cups or spoons. In such a situation, base 10 is not helpful at all because recipes are rarely divided or multiplied by 10.

Perhaps true, but just because you switch to metric, doesn't mean you need to stop using tablespoons and teaspoons for measurements. It's all an approximation anyway, since there are far more than 2 different spoon sizes, and many of them look like they're pretty much equal in size to a tablespoon.

So if you're cooking, do what everyone else does with their spoons; if you need a tablespoon, grab the big-ish one and estimate. If you needed more precision than that, why wouldn't you use ml? :confused:
 
there is no rational reason to argue that the metric system is not superior to the imperial in every form and shape.
one is intuitive, consistent and accurate, the other is random.

the 'feel' argument is honestly ludicrous beacause mostly everyone has a better 'feel' for the system the grew up with. it's just a matter of habit.

the only reasons we haven't switched yet is
a) economic, as conversion would cost some money -but it stimulates the economy!-
b) misplaced patriotism, as anything done in the US 'must' be better then what is done elsewhere because it is 'american'

those who oppose switching i think are underestimate people's ability to adapt. a well organized switch would take half a generation and cause little to no problems, in my opinion. plus it would give the usual suspects something more to complain about, once the conspiracy theory of the day becomes passe' :D

and really are we arguing that we should stick to imperial because of cooking? seriously?
apart from the fact that cup/spoon/teaspoon is intrinsically ambiguous (since they come in different sizes) just

cuisines from metric system places
italian
french

cuisines from imperial system places
american
british

i rest my case, your honor ;)
 
cuisines from metric system places
italian
french

cuisines from imperial system places
american
british

Britain is halfway between imperial and metric. Which makes a lot of sense. We are fatter than the Italians and French, but not as fat as you Yanks. The French in particular look down on British cooking, but not as much as American cooking! British cheese isn't as good as French/Italian but is a damn sight better than that plastic American stuff.

Picking up a good correlation here!
 
Metric system should be in the U.S.. No point in keeping an odd system.

For manufacturing, my impression is that the U.S. does use metric. Maybe that is because most stuff is manufactured overseas or for something like automobiles, they are marketed worldwide.:eek: However for living around town, I like my miles, inches, gallons, and pounds.
 
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You think you've got it bad? In Britain we have
milk and beer by the pint
coke by the litre
roads by the mile
tablecloths/fabric etc by the metre
petrol/diesel by the litre
fuel efficiency is measured in miles per gallon but carbon emissions are measured in grams per kilometer.
weight of people in stones and pounds
sugar/flour etc in kilograms
fruit by the pound
cheese by grams
bread loaves are labelled in grams, bread rolls sold by the dozen.
height in feet and inches.

Actually all foods are legally sold in grammes and kg.
Pint's are not legal for anything apart from Milk, Beer & Cider.

The only imperial we use legally are on the roads, Miles and by motorway exits are in yards!!!

Clothes are double labelled in CM and IN, my car measures in kmph from factory.

Weight is always measured in Kg by doctors, gym's, boot's etc, only stones are used by old people and really old scales.

Basically they need to switch the road system to Km's instead of stupid Miles.
 
....
I have to ask you, aside from base 10, what makes metric superior?

If it is to have an easier time with conversions and what not, then why would I leave a system that I am very familiar with, even if it is not base 10?

I don't believe one system is better than the other. They are just different.

Metric is just easier to learn. Period. How many inches to 7 yards? If I want to divide 7 yards, 8 & 13/16 inches into 3 equal sections (+/- a 1/4 inch) what is that length? If I want to estimate how heavy something is, I can fill a metric container with water and know how heavy it is since 1 litre = 1 kilo. Etc Etc How heavy is a gallon of water? A pint? A cup?

Yes there will be transitional period. People with a "feel" for things will be confused for a bit. But keep in mind that many of the things that measure will be in US units for a bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the USA the only nation still using the old measurements? Certainly the only developed nation.

For manufacturing, my impression is that the U.S. does use metric. Maybe that is because most stuff is manufactured overseas or for something like automobiles, they are marketed worldwide.

I can tell you that a lot of stuff manufactured in the US is still using the old units. We Canadians, supposedly metric, get to live with it. We don't make our own paint cans, so we buy a gallon of paint. But... we can't label it as a gallon so it's sold as a 3.79 litre can. Same thing for beer. We buy it in 331ml, or 347ml units (or something like that).

Best of all.... When Environment Canada calls for a -5º day I crank the thermostat up to 69 and think about roasting a 3kg chicken with 1/2lb of potatoes, in an oven set at 375. When I bought the chicken the supermarket had a sale on in the deli. Buy 1/2 lb of sliced roast beef, and get 100gs of potato salad free.

I'll drive 10 km to visit my friend who lives in a 1200sq/ft house. It's nice, they have a view since they are 300m(etres) up the bluff. They can see Five Mile Creek, which is at least 25km away. Except if it's storming. We can storms here with winds of at least 100kph and that will drop an inch or two of rain. On the mainland, the Fraser river, which is over 2200 km long, can rise 10, 12, even 15 feet in the spring melt. The flow is an astronomical number of cubic feet per minute, and it gotta be moving at a 15-20kph easy. Though sometimes they do quote that figure in cubic metres per minute (264 gallons).

I have both imperial and a metric socket wrench kits. I've assembled BBQs that had both. You can tell which parts came from the US, and which didn't. IKEA is always metric. Lawnmowers are typically Imperial. My camera gear is both. (Tripod sockets are 1/4 or 1/8 inch coarse threads. Lighting stands use metric allen keys, unless they are US made.)

So to my American Cousins. Just switch already and get it over with! Make life easier for every one else in the world, 'kay!?! Eh?

I don't even bother with calculating fuel economy any more. The official measurement is litres/100km, but I still think in MPG, but buy fuel in litres. But I know that our Smart car has an 8 gallon tank.
 
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