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Microsoft and Intel Back HD-DVD

saunders45 said:
Thing that sucks about blu ray, is it is gonna cost a freakin' crapload more to produce and get going. Oh and that little part where blu-ray players have a self destruct system, and even more DRM to deal with. Gotta love paying up the nose for technology that will be cracked anyway.
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Don't you like the fact that you buy a piece of equipment and have to connected to the a phoneline/internet and someone can disable your equipment becuase they preceive you as doing something they do not want you to do.

I am sorry, it is my equipment and you better not mess with it. I think there is court law on this when MS try to disable people computers if they thought you pirated their software. I think it call an invation of privacy.

You know you can do want every you want behind close doors as long as it does not include non-concenting individuals and maybe an animal or two and the government and others cannot look in and say stop.... oh wait that is a moot point we have the patriot act these days
 
Drives will become dual blu-ray and HD-DVD. Whichever format has the content first will get a lead. I can only hope that FCP and/or Media Cleaner will allow burnng to both formats.
 
x86isslow said:
i'd say ominous that intel and apple are going in two different directions
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Apple pretty much has to, in my opinion. This move is another in a long line of MS/Intel moves designed to mutually reinforce each other's near-monopoly in their respective fields. Now that Apple is moving to Intel, OSX is real potential competition to MS. I've no doubt that if hacked or official versions of OSX start appearing on non-Apple hardware in significant numbers MS will retaliate by discontinuing support of OSX. Thus Apple needs a format that uses a DRM technology that isn't controlled by MS.
 
ibook30 said:
Do we really want HD porn ? I mean - some of these "films" are shot with vaseline over the lense so we don't see all the details... :D ( uuuhhh- a friend told me about the vaseline, I am too evolved to watch porn,,, )
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Even worse seeing those pimped wide asses all over your wide screen.... oh wait some ppl like that....:D:D
 
Its always SONY isn't it. They love to think that they are the best brains in the world yet all their computers SUCK. Heaven forbid they EVER cooperate with each other for the sake of the world. Isn't this the case with every single format though? + vs -, HD vs BluRay, Betamax vs VHS etc etc etc....
 
People, please freaking READ!!! Apple is a member of the DVD Forum and has been for years. Apple is NOT a Blu-Ray only supporter

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/

FFS people look at the damn DVD SP 4 page. Note this disc

indexhd20050417.jpg



Intel and MS in HD-DVD's corner is huge. Very few companies other than studios have came out publically and stated they are in one formats corner only. Many are hedging their bets. Apple is squarely in the middle here.

The PS3 will help Blu-Ray's penetration but then again you still need a HDCP DVI/HDMI HD tv as Blu-Ray players will only have SD 480p analog outputs.

Blu-Ray has not only AACS encryption but BD+ on top which means you are NOT going to be recording discs....ever. With revocable keys and the ability to shut down hacked players if bootlegging is your thing...Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will make that nigh impossible.

HD-DVD is going to be cheaper to produce. Pressing plants that press DVD-9 can upgrade to HD-DVD support for under $200k. Blu-Ray will require about a 2 million dollar investment for the pressers which aren't compatible with DVD. Do the math.

AVC and VC-1 make the extra space of Blu-Ray superfluous. Both formats will easily hold a feature length film with extras. Blu-Ray as a computer backup device is still a poor choice. The industry is moving to backup to hard drive...so will consumers.

HD-DVD has a .6mm protection layer just like DVD. Blu-Ray gets it's increased capacity and layer capability because it has only a .1mm protection layer which means your data is at risk of a scratch by a factor of 6x versus HD-DVD. This means BD discs will have to use TDKs Durabis coating or some other type of spincoat....$$$$$$$$$$ ca'ching more production costs and time.

If you think Blu-Ray has already won the battle you have just announced, to those who more fully understand the situation, that you don't know what's going on.
 
Soo... who else thinks that both blu-ray and HD-DVD are completely worthless, and we might as well just make DVD players that play back h.264 HD? Sony knows that the ps2 was worthless without DVD playback, I mean, how long did it take a worthwhile game to come out for it? Now they're selling the ps3 for 5 to 600 bucks, while blu-ray players will be upwards of 1000. Way to rack up worthless numbers for your console, Sony...
 
Another betamax to Sony??

Maybe this is a sign of another betamax loss for Sony and other's? I mean, is history proving once again that it likes to repeat along the time???

Of course, IMHO it's dumb to choose HD-DVD over Blue-Ray. THey are thinking in short term run, but in the long run BLUE-Ray will rule HD-DVD, even because the maximum theoretical capacity is 200gb of data per Blue-Ray disc, against 60 gb for HD-DVD discs, if I'm not mistaken...

But, the Betamax curse is here, you know...
 
obeygiant said:
this crap gives me a headache.

last time i saw a blu-ray disc, it was in a cartridge just like the old dvd-ram. it sucked. people want just a disc, not some confabulated doohicky.
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then I guess last time u checked was 2 years ago? LOL where have you been? blue-Ray is not cartridge based but just like any other CD looking based.

TDK, has also made a 4 layer format of Blue-Ray, 100GB, HD comes no where close to that. HD will require a new dvd player as will Blue-Ray so both are at a tie. The thing that it comes down to, Blue Ray will set the companies up for the next 20 years while HD will only be 10. How long before we see that 30GB isnt enough and we need another format?
 
SkAlex said:
I just hope betamax comes out on top when this is all done with... :rolleyes:
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Whooaahh!!! Hold your horses there sonny boy... just hold off the Betamax, I'm backing Video 2000 all the way!!! ;)
 
nuckinfutz said:
HD-DVD has a .6mm protection layer just like DVD. Blu-Ray gets it's increased capacity and layer capability because it has only a .1mm protection layer which means your data is at risk of a scratch by a factor of 6x versus HD-DVD. This means BD discs will have to use TDKs Durabis coating or some other type of spincoat....$$$$$$$$$$ ca'ching more production costs and time.
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Sorry I missed this one the first time I read it, another miss information.

Blu-ray gets is capacity due to the fact the blue laser has a smaller wavelength than the infared laser of the current technology. Therefore, it can read and write more information in a the same amount of space.

You are right about the scatched since blu-ray uses a smaller wavelength it be can interferred with due to very fine scratches and the thinkness becomes and issue since thinfilms can change light propagation properties depending in their thinkness. I do believe these devices use CRC so if an error is detected it will correct it on the fly. As we all know, new technologies cost more until it is refind and used more so the cost will be come moot at some point here..
 
I can't stand the dropouts due to scratches of rented DVDs. Blu-ray is going to suck.
 
cube said:
I can't stand the dropouts due to scratches of rented DVDs. Blu-ray is going to suck.
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Except the TDK Durabis not only removes the problem of increased scratches on the disc, but actually should improve it over that on the HD-DVD.

It's one of the main reasons for not going for BD, bu it is no longer a problem. The on other major reason people give is that the costs of manufacturing the discs, and switching over initially will be higher, but those costs will have to be met further down the line when people realise that HD-DVD isn't enough. With the lower capacity too, if ou want a decent amount of HD footage on HD-DVD, you seriously have to start considering multiple discs, so that cancels out the addtional costs of producing the discs, which again are projected to be about the same as HD-DVD once BD has significant penetration.

One single layer 25GB BD hold 135 minutes of HD content, you need around 2 layers for that with HD-DVD. That means around 5 hours on the maximum 60GB for HD-DVD, whereas BD will go up to about 18 hours. If BD does win and we go to HHD in say 10 years time, we have a large enough storage capacity to keep us going a bit longer, HD-DVD would really start to struggle, with maybe an hour of HHD at most. I know which I would prefer long term.
 
steve_hill4 said:
Except the TDK Durabis not only removes the problem of increased scratches on the disc, but actually should improve it over that on the HD-DVD.
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Reports actually say that they remain less resilient to scratches than HD-DVD, even after applying this coating.
 
ZorPrime said:
. Blu-Ray will win.
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well, that is what i said when the firewire400 vs. usb2.0 debate started.

look at our beloved company now. hugging "the enemy". i don't care about the so-called "iPod halo effect". i also don't care about pc users. if a company has superior technologies. then it should use it.
 
Even if combo players are available, and even if combo burners become available, it's still going to be a PITA headache for content producers. I'm sure there will be much confusion as to the different techniques needed to author the two formats (each of which will contain a number of variants, I bet). It's hard enough starting with one basic format. Remember the weirdness with CD, CD-R, CD-R/W, CD-RW+, CD-A, CD-XA, CD Extra, CD Plus, CD-I, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD-RW+, 5 GB vs. 10 GB, single vs. dual layers, single vs dual sided, etc., not to mention burning speed problems? Bleh. Just as an example, many content producers will have to go through two time-consuming and CPU-consuming encoding steps, one to fit content most efficiently on each format.
 
redAPPLE said:
well, that is what i said when the firewire400 vs. usb2.0 debate started.

look at our beloved company now. hugging "the enemy". i don't care about the so-called "iPod halo effect". i also don't care about pc users. if a company has superior technologies. then it should use it.
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Assuming you know which is the superior technology. Just because bluray has a higher storage capacity doesn't make it superior. Will the first generation of blueray drives, which spin at 2x, be superior to current DVDs, which have a higher data transfer rate? Maybe for overall storage, but maybe not for games which require fast access to the data. Is a 30GB HD-DVD inferior to a 50GB bluray disc which may cost twice as much?

People are making a lot of assumptions based on the current state of CDs and DVDs, but I don't see either bluray or HD-DVD being a viable and reliable medium for data storage for quite some time. I expect both to serve as read-only format for the most part and thus, I'd give the edge to HD-DVD, as it will be faster and cheaper to start pumping them out. How many games, apps, and movies will require more than 30GB? How soon do you expect to be using archive-quality HD media for your personal burning purposes at a reasonable price point?
 
Steamboatwillie said:
Steve did say that this is the year of HD :rolleyes:
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bluray still uses hd video...



both of them use hd video. steve was still right, dont frown face me!
 
Maestro64 said:
oh wait that is a moot point we have the patriot act these days
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not wanting to hijack the thread, but i got an off-topic question. let us say a new president gets elected, does he have the power to trash the patriot act?

i just need one answer and then go back on topic people :)
 
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