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Microsoft and OD2 Launch European Music Service
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Oh yeah, of course, you know, never mind that Europe provides Apple with a significant chunk of 50 freakin' percent of its revenue from outside the U.S....
You know, it's not at all an important market... No one in Europe is wealthy enough to afford a Mac, no one in Europe works in design, film, music, education, or any of Apple's other areas of strength... Nah, Apple doesn't give a sh*t about Europe.
What are you smokin', bud?
Yes this is the point: Europe and actually every other country in the "rich" world should be as important to Apple as USA but it does not seem to be. I mean think about it: No Apple stores in Europe - one at Tokyo I heard but that is it about Apple stores outside US, sherlock, iphoto, and now iTMS are not "Europe" friendly or internationally friendly. I think Apple has too small a market share to be leaving out any part of it especially if that part has much cheaper alternatives. It seems like they are losing the School battle and I won't be impressed if they are going to lose the international battle too in a few years.
I mean most of psychology deparments in the universities in UK use Macs BUT Apple does not have any program like they do in US to supply Macs to the students through the universities in deep discounts. People are less aware about Macss here cause Apple does not care enough.
I am taking my PB to many places and more often than not the question is "What computer is this" and I say it is a Mac from Apple. And they stare at me like I am speaking chinese or something and that is from younger people. I think Apple together with all the other battles they are fighting should fight the International battle as well
That been said I am not sure that people are aware or care about an MS music store no matter if it is under their nose or not.
I mean most of psychology deparments in the universities in UK use Macs BUT Apple does not have any program like they do in US to supply Macs to the students through the universities in deep discounts. People are less aware about Macss here cause Apple does not care enough.
I am taking my PB to many places and more often than not the question is "What computer is this" and I say it is a Mac from Apple. And they stare at me like I am speaking chinese or something and that is from younger people. I think Apple together with all the other battles they are fighting should fight the International battle as well
That been said I am not sure that people are aware or care about an MS music store no matter if it is under their nose or not.
well, if they port all of the iApps, then there would be almost no reason to switch! they should port one or 2, as a teaser of sorts.
also, has anyone seen the service yet? is it a site or an app?
also, has anyone seen the service yet? is it a site or an app?
A) Do you all really think that Apple is biting off it's nose to spite it's face wrt Europe?
What about the fact that Europe itself can't figure out what the heck it wants to do with itself (can't establish a unilaterial European Union, can't get everyone to accept the Euro, etc etc), yet you think Apple can just snap it's fingers and say "let there be Euro iTunes?"
Didn't any of you notice that this "Euro" Microsoft music service entails all of... one... country, one that's not even part of the European mainland?
B) Do you really think Apple is just sitting around saying, "Hey, think we really need to make a Windows version of iTunes? Do we really care about this dross?" Porting applications to a different platform does not happen overnight.
Would you prefer that Apple waited until December to release ALL of the iTunes store stuff, including the Mac version, so you could say "Hey, they released the Mac and the Windows version at the same time!" while numerous other companies produced Windows-only music stores up til now? What cachet Apple has is because they're the best music sales service available, regardless of which platform it's on. That builds instant recognition, due in no small part to iTMS being one of the FIRST instead of playing catch-up. Were iTMS not to have been released until December, regardless of quality, people would just say "too little, too late."
PS: Little fact, you CANNOT be "losing sales" on a product YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE.
What about the fact that Europe itself can't figure out what the heck it wants to do with itself (can't establish a unilaterial European Union, can't get everyone to accept the Euro, etc etc), yet you think Apple can just snap it's fingers and say "let there be Euro iTunes?"
Didn't any of you notice that this "Euro" Microsoft music service entails all of... one... country, one that's not even part of the European mainland?
B) Do you really think Apple is just sitting around saying, "Hey, think we really need to make a Windows version of iTunes? Do we really care about this dross?" Porting applications to a different platform does not happen overnight.
Would you prefer that Apple waited until December to release ALL of the iTunes store stuff, including the Mac version, so you could say "Hey, they released the Mac and the Windows version at the same time!" while numerous other companies produced Windows-only music stores up til now? What cachet Apple has is because they're the best music sales service available, regardless of which platform it's on. That builds instant recognition, due in no small part to iTMS being one of the FIRST instead of playing catch-up. Were iTMS not to have been released until December, regardless of quality, people would just say "too little, too late."
PS: Little fact, you CANNOT be "losing sales" on a product YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE.
there are rumors floating around that mediacenter's new beta will become apple's itunes for windows. see this thread:
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb...ter;action=display;num=1060561162;start=16#16
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb...ter;action=display;num=1060561162;start=16#16
Originally posted by Jerry Spoon
interesting that these other companies aren't having such legal problemsI'm sure this has to do w/ Apple wanting more rights for the customer as far as burning, etc, but this is still frustrating.
That is exactly it.
While it is (relatively speaking) easy to get all thousand or so international distributors to agree that you can sell their music online, it is not easy to get all of them to agree on a single price ($.99 or therabouts ... I suspect you could get them all to sign on to $5 downloads, but then where'd that leave your customers ...), a single "Fair Play" usage paradigm (which, again, is hard because it gives so much to the user ... it'd be pretty easy to sign them on for "you can listen to it exactly once, on one computer, and can not burn it to any CD", but that's not exactly a good deal for Apple's customers either), and a single level of quality.
Microsoft worked with BuyMusic too, in case you all forgot. BuyMusic couldn't get a consistent license from even the "Big 5" RIAA labels in the US! Add to that Microsoft's own failing (WMP DRM is not designed with users in mind and really can not support anything like Apple's licensing scheme; WMP "activation" is painful and clunky; the WMP/store interface is clunky), and I don't see OD2 doing much better.
Does OD2 have a consistent licensing and usage scheme across all their songs? Has OD2 worked around the limitations of WMP DRM to give its users a scheme anywhere as flexible as the Fair Play system Apple has set up? Is buying from OD2 a one-step process, or a multi-step, confusing process as it is with BuyMusic?
It all remains to be seen, but, IMHO, until WMP 10 comes out with a more consumer-friendly licensing and activation scheme, there will be no WMP-based music service that can compete with iTMS.
Originally posted by trianglejuice
They want compatibility?
Isn't QuickTime compatible enough?
I meant to illustrate that a major sticking point for PC users against using a Mac is that there are hundreds of thousands more titles availbale for Windows than for Mac. Of course, the overwhelming majority of users will never encounter a situation where they can't find a Mac version of the PC software they need.
--DT
Obviously I am aware that Apple has very intelligent people running the company, but that doesn't make them any less likely to make serious blunders. The intelligence of Apple management is hardly the point though. Apple is a visionary company, with great ideas that change the computer industry. The problem is, as many have stated on this board, that Apple comes up with a revolutionary idea, and then lets the competition grab the baton and run with it, all the while earning fat profits, and leaving Apple with its small but devoted customer base. It doesn't take a business degree to know that following through with an idea is at least as important as having it in the first place. Apple came up with the first easy to use consumer PC, but MS ran with it and made the big money.
And yes, the music industry is incredibly complex and I don't have a particularly deep understanding of how it works. But Apple's competitors seem to be doing OK with the legal issues, so I really wish that the uber-management over at Apple would stop thinking about the next big thing, and concentrate on the current big thing. Or at least hire some more people to deal with that. Like me
--DT
Oh, Lord, I hope not!
http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/misc/mc91228.jpg
Why oh why oh why would one want that abhorent tree view taking up 1/3 of the screen? You want Yet Another File Tree ("My Computer"? "Plugins" deserves to be taking up real estate there? A column on your library denoting where the song's image is? Another column titled "S..<up-arrow><superscript-1>" (what the HELL is that supposed to mean? It's the frickin' track number, from the look of it!)? The trademarked Win-centric Mess O' Unintelligible and Undistinguishable Toolbar Icons, placed uniquely in the center of the screen (and another one in the bottom-right in case you missed the first)?
Who the hell would want to use THAT?!?
I really really hope Apple has more sense than that ...
Scratch that: I know Apple has more sense than that. I hope that they use their God-given sense.
Really? You think BuyMusic is a stellar example of the results you can expect after successfully negotiating a consistent and consumer-friendly contract with all of the major US labels?
There is NO evidence that any of Apple's competitors has done anywhere remotely near "OK" with regard to legal issues. Of course, up to this point we really only have one semi-valid specimin to look at. It is far too soon to make a judgement here yet.
Music industry jerkin apple
I think many people in this forum are overlooking a crucial point. Several big time music label CEOs have told the media the iTunes was an experiment, and nothing more. Just because Apple was first to market means nothing to them. For the music companies, which are the ones holding the rights to the music, its about profits, and resurrecting their flagging muical fortunes. Does anyone honestly believe the labels are going to give Apple first shot at everything. No way. Its in the labels interests to have dozens of online music stores, with plenty of competition. Eventually the labels will just sell their music on their own sites, or through parternships with many of the soon to be existing music sites. No on is going to own the market, because the music industry is scared spitless of losing control of their music to digital middlemen. In reality, whether Apple releases a Windows version is inconsequential, with the liberal DRM or without. The industry is looking out for itself, and does anyone really believe the Big Five record companies have forgotten Apple's "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign, which essentialy was the computer industry flipping the bird to the record industry? I doubt it. Steve Jobs is great, but who's outsmarting who here?
I think many people in this forum are overlooking a crucial point. Several big time music label CEOs have told the media the iTunes was an experiment, and nothing more. Just because Apple was first to market means nothing to them. For the music companies, which are the ones holding the rights to the music, its about profits, and resurrecting their flagging muical fortunes. Does anyone honestly believe the labels are going to give Apple first shot at everything. No way. Its in the labels interests to have dozens of online music stores, with plenty of competition. Eventually the labels will just sell their music on their own sites, or through parternships with many of the soon to be existing music sites. No on is going to own the market, because the music industry is scared spitless of losing control of their music to digital middlemen. In reality, whether Apple releases a Windows version is inconsequential, with the liberal DRM or without. The industry is looking out for itself, and does anyone really believe the Big Five record companies have forgotten Apple's "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign, which essentialy was the computer industry flipping the bird to the record industry? I doubt it. Steve Jobs is great, but who's outsmarting who here?
I would think that the delays in iTMS...
..have more to do with securing consistent legal rights than any technical reasons.
With iTMS, Apple has to satisfy both the demands of their users for easy downloads, cheap pricing, and non-restrictive DRM, which is the exact opposite of what the labels want.And unlike buymusic.com, Apple enforces *their* standard for DRM. With buymusic.com, the labels set their standards in place on a track by track basis. It's a lot easier to get that set up than to force your customers into your set of rules. Ultimately, iTMS is better for the end user, and that's why it's done better business than all the competitors.
..have more to do with securing consistent legal rights than any technical reasons.
With iTMS, Apple has to satisfy both the demands of their users for easy downloads, cheap pricing, and non-restrictive DRM, which is the exact opposite of what the labels want.And unlike buymusic.com, Apple enforces *their* standard for DRM. With buymusic.com, the labels set their standards in place on a track by track basis. It's a lot easier to get that set up than to force your customers into your set of rules. Ultimately, iTMS is better for the end user, and that's why it's done better business than all the competitors.
time to switch to decaff.....
A) Do you all really think that Apple is biting off it's nose to spite it's face wrt Europe?
What about the fact that Europe itself can't figure out what the heck it wants to do with itself (can't establish a unilaterial European Union, can't get everyone to accept the Euro, etc etc), yet you think Apple can just snap it's fingers and say "let there be Euro iTunes?"
An innovative social and economic political union from countries that were the birthplace of everything your country takes for granted from law to science to politics takes a little longer than a week. Looking at post Saddam Iraq, I find frosty lectures from Americans about political integration and stability frankly hilarious. Who is kidding whom here?
IMHO this stuff about iTunes not working in Europe is a bunch of horse crap. Apple dont DEAL with Europe as a single entity (go to Apples web site and click the drop down menu for other countries, it don't say 'usa, canada, japan, europe does it now?) The record industry has different deals for different European countries, so does Apple. Where is this nonsense that it has to be all done at once coming from? Dig deeper on this issue, I dont see Sony Germany saying NO, but Sony UK saying yes. I DO see Metallica saying no, whether it is in the US, Europe, Mongolia or the arse end of Mars.
Didn't any of you notice that this "Euro" Microsoft music service entails all of... one... country, one that's not even part of the European mainland?
Meaning what, you are anti-island? You hate Hawaii too? Or do you think its not right to trade with countries surrounded by water, think they can't make a buck or two?
B) Do you really think Apple is just sitting around saying, "Hey, think we really need to make a Windows version of iTunes? Do we really care about this dross?" Porting applications to a different platform does not happen overnight.
If you put a full stop after 'sitting around', you hit the nail on the head Mr troll.
As many others have said, Sherlock does not work here (sitting around..) iPhoto is not firing on all cylinders in Europe, nor is dot Mac. (Phoning tech support at 3am there is some innovation for you)
Would you prefer that Apple waited until December to release ALL of the iTunes store stuff, including the Mac version, so you could say "Hey, they released the Mac and the Windows version at the same time!"
No, I would prefer that Apple read Mac editorials that quiet rightly point out the possibilty that Windows users in the US could be using iTunes before Mac users in Europe, and that the switcher campaign was also seen in Europe.
PS: Little fact, you CANNOT be "losing sales" on a product YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE.
Yes you can, its called competition. You dont do it, the other guy will. Then he has market share, and you just have rude offensive fans who flame people for quiet rightly pointing out your shortcomings. Bill Gates visits Tony Blair at his place to discuss UK computing needs in Education. Steve Jobs wouldn't know Downing Street from his falling market share...
A) Do you all really think that Apple is biting off it's nose to spite it's face wrt Europe?
What about the fact that Europe itself can't figure out what the heck it wants to do with itself (can't establish a unilaterial European Union, can't get everyone to accept the Euro, etc etc), yet you think Apple can just snap it's fingers and say "let there be Euro iTunes?"
An innovative social and economic political union from countries that were the birthplace of everything your country takes for granted from law to science to politics takes a little longer than a week. Looking at post Saddam Iraq, I find frosty lectures from Americans about political integration and stability frankly hilarious. Who is kidding whom here?
IMHO this stuff about iTunes not working in Europe is a bunch of horse crap. Apple dont DEAL with Europe as a single entity (go to Apples web site and click the drop down menu for other countries, it don't say 'usa, canada, japan, europe does it now?) The record industry has different deals for different European countries, so does Apple. Where is this nonsense that it has to be all done at once coming from? Dig deeper on this issue, I dont see Sony Germany saying NO, but Sony UK saying yes. I DO see Metallica saying no, whether it is in the US, Europe, Mongolia or the arse end of Mars.
Didn't any of you notice that this "Euro" Microsoft music service entails all of... one... country, one that's not even part of the European mainland?
Meaning what, you are anti-island? You hate Hawaii too? Or do you think its not right to trade with countries surrounded by water, think they can't make a buck or two?
B) Do you really think Apple is just sitting around saying, "Hey, think we really need to make a Windows version of iTunes? Do we really care about this dross?" Porting applications to a different platform does not happen overnight.
If you put a full stop after 'sitting around', you hit the nail on the head Mr troll.
As many others have said, Sherlock does not work here (sitting around..) iPhoto is not firing on all cylinders in Europe, nor is dot Mac. (Phoning tech support at 3am there is some innovation for you)
Would you prefer that Apple waited until December to release ALL of the iTunes store stuff, including the Mac version, so you could say "Hey, they released the Mac and the Windows version at the same time!"
No, I would prefer that Apple read Mac editorials that quiet rightly point out the possibilty that Windows users in the US could be using iTunes before Mac users in Europe, and that the switcher campaign was also seen in Europe.
PS: Little fact, you CANNOT be "losing sales" on a product YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE.
Yes you can, its called competition. You dont do it, the other guy will. Then he has market share, and you just have rude offensive fans who flame people for quiet rightly pointing out your shortcomings. Bill Gates visits Tony Blair at his place to discuss UK computing needs in Education. Steve Jobs wouldn't know Downing Street from his falling market share...
Think I'm becoming ill...
Chicken-Littles,
The fact that this thread has become laden with so much ignorant drivel is only made worse by the fact that it's the same blather being said over and over.
Do you all think your quirky sense of humor adds a fresh perspective to the exact same thing the last fifty posters said? Does it matter that not only are you all parroting each other, but you're all sounding equally as ignorant and naive, and it makes we wonder how people with such a blatant lack of insight into dam near anything having to do with technology, business, and the world in general could have stumbled upon a Mac and recognized it as a computing experience worth partaking. I guess the sheer greatness of a the Mac OS can appeal to the bottom of the masses. Speaking of mac appeal....
It can't really be so bad if it's held onto you this long. I mean, really, do you think that it's your undying love for the Mac platform that has kept you a Mac user. Or is it because Mac's still do what you need them to do and still do it well. You're not a genius for recognizing this. It's not because of your great understanding of computing. No. Mac's are just that good. Now what makes you think that other people, just as average as yourselves won't see that also?
You were shown. Until you were shown, you didn't know different either. So lets just believe that all other people have to do is be shown the Mac platform and be able to make that decision for themselves. But I guess the real issue at hand is, do we have to show everyone right now?
There's Buy Music, Pressplay, Son of Napster, yadda yadda yadda, all coming out before iTMS XP. Apple's going to be the last to the windows market. Apple's going to be facing entrenched competition. Apple's going to have to steal market share from others.
So what else is new?
News flash: They've done it before. They're advantage? Every one has seen how Real works. Relatively speaking, everyone has "used" WMP. Nearly everyone has experienced Napster. None of these have changed. They're still the same old adequate programs and technology they've always been. Apple's advantage over market segment leaders has always been their ability to surpass mere adequacy and provide an excellent solution.
No one has seen Apple's ways of doing things ie. "This play button? It actually means play." or "No, really. We don't need your credit card number to open this file." So if they get a true taste of the Apple experience, why wouldn't they switch no matter what's entrenched on their computers, much like you did however long ago you made that choice?
The problem is, many Mac faithful are idiots. No, really. You see, they simultaneously believe in the omnipotence of Apple Inc and its utter incapacity to do anything right. See, they think no matter what Apple does, it's so much better than anything a windows based product can provide, so that every second Apple is not releasing something to lure windows users is a lost opportunity for revenue? But why, if an Apple solution is so great, then why the hurry? In this case, the iTMS isn't even a real revenue channel as much as a marketing device. So the real target, the users, will mostly be there tomorrow (minus a few to random causes of death), bygones. So if the people will be there tomorrow, why the ultimate need to be there right now?
What nearly 40 posters in this thread failed to realize the iTMS is just an interactive Switch commercial. iTMS XP is never supposed to be the greatest music service of all times. Why would we even want that. The most revenue Apple could receive would be its portions of the profits from a $.99 song sale. iTMS XP is a gateway drug. I'd wager Apple would only one maybe 400,000 (random minuscule number) users. Why? Because they're hoping that at that point, every additional user would be replacing one that's just defected to the Macintosh platform, where Apple would make money from the Mac iTMS and everything else from the iMac sales to the licensing of the Made for OS X graphic on software boxes. But that's the part you got.
Where you seem to be having the higher brain function failure is grasping this question. What's the likely hood of that happening if Apple's offering isn't initially mind-blowing right out of the gate? The only loyalty that exists is familiarity to the current product. If Apple's isn't exceedingly above and beyond what's already out there, then there will be no switching. If whatever they put out isn't absolutely perfect, then there is no point. There's nothing to be gained. This is the great business sense Apple can't scrape together?
But you know, perhaps these mass lapses in logic can be explained by falling sky related head wounds, right. Especially now that Microsoft is in the game huh? Guess the whole world is ending because surely no one can compete with Microsoft. The American based iTMS was damned the minute Microsoft's Western Hemisphere One Country only Music Store.
I don't even have anymore...
-Hertz
Chicken-Littles,
The fact that this thread has become laden with so much ignorant drivel is only made worse by the fact that it's the same blather being said over and over.
Do you all think your quirky sense of humor adds a fresh perspective to the exact same thing the last fifty posters said? Does it matter that not only are you all parroting each other, but you're all sounding equally as ignorant and naive, and it makes we wonder how people with such a blatant lack of insight into dam near anything having to do with technology, business, and the world in general could have stumbled upon a Mac and recognized it as a computing experience worth partaking. I guess the sheer greatness of a the Mac OS can appeal to the bottom of the masses. Speaking of mac appeal....
It can't really be so bad if it's held onto you this long. I mean, really, do you think that it's your undying love for the Mac platform that has kept you a Mac user. Or is it because Mac's still do what you need them to do and still do it well. You're not a genius for recognizing this. It's not because of your great understanding of computing. No. Mac's are just that good. Now what makes you think that other people, just as average as yourselves won't see that also?
You were shown. Until you were shown, you didn't know different either. So lets just believe that all other people have to do is be shown the Mac platform and be able to make that decision for themselves. But I guess the real issue at hand is, do we have to show everyone right now?
There's Buy Music, Pressplay, Son of Napster, yadda yadda yadda, all coming out before iTMS XP. Apple's going to be the last to the windows market. Apple's going to be facing entrenched competition. Apple's going to have to steal market share from others.
So what else is new?
News flash: They've done it before. They're advantage? Every one has seen how Real works. Relatively speaking, everyone has "used" WMP. Nearly everyone has experienced Napster. None of these have changed. They're still the same old adequate programs and technology they've always been. Apple's advantage over market segment leaders has always been their ability to surpass mere adequacy and provide an excellent solution.
No one has seen Apple's ways of doing things ie. "This play button? It actually means play." or "No, really. We don't need your credit card number to open this file." So if they get a true taste of the Apple experience, why wouldn't they switch no matter what's entrenched on their computers, much like you did however long ago you made that choice?
The problem is, many Mac faithful are idiots. No, really. You see, they simultaneously believe in the omnipotence of Apple Inc and its utter incapacity to do anything right. See, they think no matter what Apple does, it's so much better than anything a windows based product can provide, so that every second Apple is not releasing something to lure windows users is a lost opportunity for revenue? But why, if an Apple solution is so great, then why the hurry? In this case, the iTMS isn't even a real revenue channel as much as a marketing device. So the real target, the users, will mostly be there tomorrow (minus a few to random causes of death), bygones. So if the people will be there tomorrow, why the ultimate need to be there right now?
What nearly 40 posters in this thread failed to realize the iTMS is just an interactive Switch commercial. iTMS XP is never supposed to be the greatest music service of all times. Why would we even want that. The most revenue Apple could receive would be its portions of the profits from a $.99 song sale. iTMS XP is a gateway drug. I'd wager Apple would only one maybe 400,000 (random minuscule number) users. Why? Because they're hoping that at that point, every additional user would be replacing one that's just defected to the Macintosh platform, where Apple would make money from the Mac iTMS and everything else from the iMac sales to the licensing of the Made for OS X graphic on software boxes. But that's the part you got.
Where you seem to be having the higher brain function failure is grasping this question. What's the likely hood of that happening if Apple's offering isn't initially mind-blowing right out of the gate? The only loyalty that exists is familiarity to the current product. If Apple's isn't exceedingly above and beyond what's already out there, then there will be no switching. If whatever they put out isn't absolutely perfect, then there is no point. There's nothing to be gained. This is the great business sense Apple can't scrape together?
But you know, perhaps these mass lapses in logic can be explained by falling sky related head wounds, right. Especially now that Microsoft is in the game huh? Guess the whole world is ending because surely no one can compete with Microsoft. The American based iTMS was damned the minute Microsoft's Western Hemisphere One Country only Music Store.
I don't even have anymore...
-Hertz
Re: time to switch to decaff.....
An innovative social and economic political union from countries that were the birthplace of everything your country takes for granted from law to science to politics takes a little longer than a week. Looking at post Saddam Iraq, I find frosty lectures from Americans about political integration and stability frankly hilarious. Who is kidding whom here?
IMHO this stuff about iTunes not working in Europe is a bunch of horse crap. Apple dont DEAL with Europe as a single entity (go to Apples web site and click the drop down menu for other countries, it don't say 'usa, canada, japan, europe does it now?) The record industry has different deals for different European countries, so does Apple. Where is this nonsense that it has to be all done at once coming from? Dig deeper on this issue, I dont see Sony Germany saying NO, but Sony UK saying yes. I DO see Metallica saying no, whether it is in the US, Europe, Mongolia or the arse end of Mars.
My, we're sensitive today. I have nothing against Europe. You read far too much into what I said. The fact remains that Europe is unable or unwilling to provide a unified front about things, which makes it rather difficult for companies to operate in a cohesive way.
The problem with iTunes that differentiates it from the hardware sales you so astutely note that Apple manages to handle on a country-by-country basis, is that it involves download of intangible data, and is thus much harder to monitor, and is not necessarily an issue so much of what record labels in different countries want, as what the intellectual property laws of various countries represent.
Meaning what, you are anti-island? You hate Hawaii too? Or do you think its not right to trade with countries surrounded by water, think they can't make a buck or two?
Meaning that people are getting their underwear jammed up their rear about Microsoft somehow breaking into a market that Apple's sitting on it's heels doing nothing about, when it's one single country out of the entirety of Europe. Apple is attempting to release an iTMS for Europe in one fell swoop, not one country by country, which is notably similar to what people are moaning about wishing Apple had done with the Mac/Win iTMS at the same time.
If you put a full stop after 'sitting around', you hit the nail on the head Mr troll. As many others have said, Sherlock does not work here (sitting around..) iPhoto is not firing on all cylinders in Europe, nor is dot Mac. (Phoning tech support at 3am there is some innovation for you)
Do you blame Apple for not being able to make you walk on water, too? I'm far from being a defender of everything Apple, but the reason I posted that in the first place is that people have some amazing expectations from any company, let alone what they expect from Apple. The amount of people who're muttering in darkened corners about their paranoia about Apple conciously neglecting them is astounding; ever consider that Apple MIGHT JUST NOT BE ABLE TO DO THINGS IMMEDIATELY FOR YOU?
No, I would prefer that Apple read Mac editorials that quiet rightly point out the possibilty that Windows users in the US could be using iTunes before Mac users in Europe, and that the switcher campaign was also seen in Europe.
Tough luck. Again, you completely miss the point. Do you think that Apple really just says to themselves, "Hey, let's not give Europe any features, they don't need them"? Apple, again, is not perfect, but these days they rarely give only a half-hearted effort at doing things. Which means, when something isn't done by Apple, that it is generally either A) against the "Apple" way (which afaik does not include screwing over Europe or B) They just haven't been able to do it.
Yes you can, its called competition. You dont do it, the other guy will. Then he has market share, and you just have rude offensive fans who flame people for quiet rightly pointing out your shortcomings. Bill Gates visits Tony Blair at his place to discuss UK computing needs in Education. Steve Jobs wouldn't know Downing Street from his falling market share...
No, you can't. You can't sell a product you don't have, and thus you cannot lose sales on it to someone who does have the product.
"Mr Blair had not yet started the computer course he promised to attend when he confessed his technological illiteracy a month ago."
Congrats on that, BTW. Did you know Al Gore invented the internet? And he was just a vice-president!
Seriously, there was nothing in my original post intended to troll or flame anyone or any country. If you read that into it, you might just be hypersensitive.
An innovative social and economic political union from countries that were the birthplace of everything your country takes for granted from law to science to politics takes a little longer than a week. Looking at post Saddam Iraq, I find frosty lectures from Americans about political integration and stability frankly hilarious. Who is kidding whom here?
IMHO this stuff about iTunes not working in Europe is a bunch of horse crap. Apple dont DEAL with Europe as a single entity (go to Apples web site and click the drop down menu for other countries, it don't say 'usa, canada, japan, europe does it now?) The record industry has different deals for different European countries, so does Apple. Where is this nonsense that it has to be all done at once coming from? Dig deeper on this issue, I dont see Sony Germany saying NO, but Sony UK saying yes. I DO see Metallica saying no, whether it is in the US, Europe, Mongolia or the arse end of Mars.
My, we're sensitive today. I have nothing against Europe. You read far too much into what I said. The fact remains that Europe is unable or unwilling to provide a unified front about things, which makes it rather difficult for companies to operate in a cohesive way.
The problem with iTunes that differentiates it from the hardware sales you so astutely note that Apple manages to handle on a country-by-country basis, is that it involves download of intangible data, and is thus much harder to monitor, and is not necessarily an issue so much of what record labels in different countries want, as what the intellectual property laws of various countries represent.
Meaning what, you are anti-island? You hate Hawaii too? Or do you think its not right to trade with countries surrounded by water, think they can't make a buck or two?
Meaning that people are getting their underwear jammed up their rear about Microsoft somehow breaking into a market that Apple's sitting on it's heels doing nothing about, when it's one single country out of the entirety of Europe. Apple is attempting to release an iTMS for Europe in one fell swoop, not one country by country, which is notably similar to what people are moaning about wishing Apple had done with the Mac/Win iTMS at the same time.
If you put a full stop after 'sitting around', you hit the nail on the head Mr troll. As many others have said, Sherlock does not work here (sitting around..) iPhoto is not firing on all cylinders in Europe, nor is dot Mac. (Phoning tech support at 3am there is some innovation for you)
Do you blame Apple for not being able to make you walk on water, too? I'm far from being a defender of everything Apple, but the reason I posted that in the first place is that people have some amazing expectations from any company, let alone what they expect from Apple. The amount of people who're muttering in darkened corners about their paranoia about Apple conciously neglecting them is astounding; ever consider that Apple MIGHT JUST NOT BE ABLE TO DO THINGS IMMEDIATELY FOR YOU?
No, I would prefer that Apple read Mac editorials that quiet rightly point out the possibilty that Windows users in the US could be using iTunes before Mac users in Europe, and that the switcher campaign was also seen in Europe.
Tough luck. Again, you completely miss the point. Do you think that Apple really just says to themselves, "Hey, let's not give Europe any features, they don't need them"? Apple, again, is not perfect, but these days they rarely give only a half-hearted effort at doing things. Which means, when something isn't done by Apple, that it is generally either A) against the "Apple" way (which afaik does not include screwing over Europe or B) They just haven't been able to do it.
Yes you can, its called competition. You dont do it, the other guy will. Then he has market share, and you just have rude offensive fans who flame people for quiet rightly pointing out your shortcomings. Bill Gates visits Tony Blair at his place to discuss UK computing needs in Education. Steve Jobs wouldn't know Downing Street from his falling market share...
No, you can't. You can't sell a product you don't have, and thus you cannot lose sales on it to someone who does have the product.
"Mr Blair had not yet started the computer course he promised to attend when he confessed his technological illiteracy a month ago."
Congrats on that, BTW. Did you know Al Gore invented the internet? And he was just a vice-president!
Seriously, there was nothing in my original post intended to troll or flame anyone or any country. If you read that into it, you might just be hypersensitive.
Competition is great! I only wish we could have some. In monopoly situations there is no real competition! Microsoft could easily win the battle for market share just because of their dominence in the OS market. The good news is that the EU has not yet agreed to this new partnership and has an anti-trust case against Microsoft that is right on point. Maybe, they will have more backbone than the US Justice Dept. did.
Hertz-
I agree with you in that Apple will make a music service far superior to any of the current windows version. Take the iPod - When Apple came out with the windows version, there were already many mp3 players on the market. Apple just simply made the best, and thats why it controls such a large market share today.
There is a problem though - People are much more willing to learn new hardware than they are software. Someone who is used to a windows interface will most likely be drawn to those apps with a windows interface over an Apple interface. Therefore, in order to be successful, Apple needs to make iTunes XP with a windows interface. This presents the ultimate problem: Making a program easy to use with a Windows interface is definatly not an easy task. I believe that Apple is one of the only companies that could actually pull that off.
I agree with you in that Apple will make a music service far superior to any of the current windows version. Take the iPod - When Apple came out with the windows version, there were already many mp3 players on the market. Apple just simply made the best, and thats why it controls such a large market share today.
There is a problem though - People are much more willing to learn new hardware than they are software. Someone who is used to a windows interface will most likely be drawn to those apps with a windows interface over an Apple interface. Therefore, in order to be successful, Apple needs to make iTunes XP with a windows interface. This presents the ultimate problem: Making a program easy to use with a Windows interface is definatly not an easy task. I believe that Apple is one of the only companies that could actually pull that off.
Re: Re: monopoly?
A few things...
1. Apple is a hardware company.
2. Apple is a hardware company.
3. Apple is a hardware company.
It's hard to believe, given that their software blows all competition away, but yes, Apple is a hardware company. Their amazing operating system, and thousands of dollars worth of free software (iDvd-like software for the pc costs over 10 grand, I recall reading somewhere) serves to get you to buy their pricy hardware, which I do with pleasure (although I'm on the verge of being priced out. Apple! Tone it down some, you've got to hook 'em while they're young!). They could probably make tons of money porting Final Cut Pro to the PC, but many people and companies buy Macs for the sole purpose of running Final Cut Pro, a good deal for Apple. Why would anyone go out and get a Mac if all the amazing software was available for much cheaper PCs?
A few things...
1. Apple is a hardware company.
2. Apple is a hardware company.
3. Apple is a hardware company.
It's hard to believe, given that their software blows all competition away, but yes, Apple is a hardware company. Their amazing operating system, and thousands of dollars worth of free software (iDvd-like software for the pc costs over 10 grand, I recall reading somewhere) serves to get you to buy their pricy hardware, which I do with pleasure (although I'm on the verge of being priced out. Apple! Tone it down some, you've got to hook 'em while they're young!). They could probably make tons of money porting Final Cut Pro to the PC, but many people and companies buy Macs for the sole purpose of running Final Cut Pro, a good deal for Apple. Why would anyone go out and get a Mac if all the amazing software was available for much cheaper PCs?
If they're launching this music service by next week, then Apple and iTMS is focked. The words "Integrated into our software" from Microsoft simply means, "We'll pull any scandalous move we can make in order to make sure that you use our music service by default.
Re: Think I'm becoming ill...
I guess from the tone of your post you´re not 18 and you don´t work for the diplomatic service
I agree there is not the breakneck rush that some are advocating to get iTMS for Windows out. When Apple have the whole legal package deal that they are after, that will be the right time to launch iTMS and it should do OK.
I think you underestimate the effect on revenue of a few cents here and there. The music service that is baiting PC heads to become new Mac users would be a very real revenue channel when downloads are in the tens of millions a month. But you dont think that this is likely when you shout at everyone for being stupid enough to think or wish that iTMS will be the best music service ever.
If say every 400 000 songs equates to one person changing to Mac, if that''s what you meant, that means a lot of new Macs will only go out the door with mega music sales, so can you explain to us dummies why wouldnt Apple, or Mac users, want to see the greatest music service ever ? . I presume Apple want to win win win and we Mac fans would like to see PC users enjoying the same computer experience as us. So for that to happen iTMS has to be ****ing amazing.
An interactive Switch campaign is the theory behind iTMS, with financial spin-offs, and that´s good, but as we all know, thus far, producing the best software has NOT lured people to switch.
For the sake of Apple, I hope that music is the new rock n roll in computing and turns out to be the one and only catalyst in their software history so far to generate a mass switch.
Have a nice day.
I guess from the tone of your post you´re not 18 and you don´t work for the diplomatic service
I agree there is not the breakneck rush that some are advocating to get iTMS for Windows out. When Apple have the whole legal package deal that they are after, that will be the right time to launch iTMS and it should do OK.
I think you underestimate the effect on revenue of a few cents here and there. The music service that is baiting PC heads to become new Mac users would be a very real revenue channel when downloads are in the tens of millions a month. But you dont think that this is likely when you shout at everyone for being stupid enough to think or wish that iTMS will be the best music service ever.
If say every 400 000 songs equates to one person changing to Mac, if that''s what you meant, that means a lot of new Macs will only go out the door with mega music sales, so can you explain to us dummies why wouldnt Apple, or Mac users, want to see the greatest music service ever ? . I presume Apple want to win win win and we Mac fans would like to see PC users enjoying the same computer experience as us. So for that to happen iTMS has to be ****ing amazing.
An interactive Switch campaign is the theory behind iTMS, with financial spin-offs, and that´s good, but as we all know, thus far, producing the best software has NOT lured people to switch.
For the sake of Apple, I hope that music is the new rock n roll in computing and turns out to be the one and only catalyst in their software history so far to generate a mass switch.
Have a nice day.