Microsoft and OD2 Launch European Music Service

[Phazer80s]

A good kick in the pants!

Competition is a GOOD thing. Bring it on!!!

Music services like Microsoft's, the new Napster and *cringe* even BuyMusic's will discourage any complacency Apple may feel from the iTMS' initial success.

Apple's got to to be a more aggressive competitor. It's hardware prices are absurd considering the PC market at large. They need to keep the value of their software high, and the iTMS can't be excluded from the effort.

The iTMS is a great service but it's not perfect. Aside from its limited availability, the inconsistent sound quality is my biggest gripe. I'd like to see the lesser-quality tracks reduced in price.

On the iTMS, most tracks originally released before the mid-1990s have a flaky, wavering sound more recent releases don't have. Compare an old album remastered after the early-1990s against the original release on the iTMS (given both versions are available there) and you'll see what I mean. It seems to be a problem with the AAC encoding. The 'flakiness' sounds like digital compression artifacts. It's like Apple encoded albums released before the mid-1990s at something around 90 kbps, not 128kbps. It's not the same as comparing an original-release CD with a remastered version. With CDs, it's usually a difference in dynamic range; the old release usually sounds more muffled than the new one. It's a 'different difference' on the iTMS. But enough about that...

We can't yet say how the iTMS' competitors will compare. Aside from the larger advertised selections, they might be crap. But they're bound to do some things right. And if Apple improves its Music Store because of the competition, it's all the better for us!

PS--who'll be the first to offer their service to Canada?

 

[DGFan]

Originally posted by Stella
Once Microsoft gets in noise into something and bundles it with the OS, the game is almost up.

Windows users typically don't go looking for things if its bundled with their OS - take IE, Hotmail, Outlook etc etc.

Why should they go looking for software when its right in front of their noses... they'll except any bag of sh?t software - ( IE, outlook etc etc)

I'm afraid that unless Apple do some very serious advertising once the Windows (IF) and worldwide ITMS becomes available, ITMS will be relegated to the status of something like QuickTime.... barely used amongst the Windows lemmings.

What's the advantage of Quicktime? Virtually nil for all practical purposes.

Many here think there are major advantages to iTMS. If users see that, it won't be a major issue that WMP is bundled. If, on the other hand, MS comes out with a killer product that is *almost* as good as iTunes and iTMS (great software, great store, great usage rights) then they probably will grab the majority of the market share.

 

[bobindashadows]

Re: Re: Re: Nice, ???

Originally posted by mim
Well, seeing as they're providing the jukebox software, it's kinda a MS 9.0 release - which doesn't mean it's a terribly good piece of software, but you can be sure

a) the drm be frustrating for your average user,
b) it will have the awful windows preschool lollypop colour scheme,
c) people (mindless windows users...) will be familiar and happy with the way it works.



At the moment it's quite easy to convert a wma (even drm'd ones) directly to a mp3. Somehow I doubt MS will be alerting their customers to this method gaining "fair use" out of their purchaces.

I actually had quite a difficult time doing just that back during the school year. A buddy of mine needed a wma of "Return of the Mack" converted to mp3 - I spent an hour and a half downloading conversion tools, but since each one was based off of WMP stuff, it refused to convert it due to DRM. I then moved it to my G4, and converted it in 2 minutes...

Was there something I missed?

 

[NavyIntel007]

WAKE THE ---- UP APPLE!!!!

At least get the party started in Canada!

I didn't know smart people could be so dumb.

 

[dekator]

The real problem

A product/service needs customer awareness. If M$ start their online à la carte service first, it could be that, by the time iTunes for Windows is ready, nobody really notices. Well, okay, maybe people will but Apple needs to get there soon.
And don't get me started on European services... 'Think Apple is run by idiots'. Not exactly, but they do make some idiotical decisions at times, or have made.
Apple is one of the few American brands that has a very (nearly wholly) positive connotation with it in Europe. And what do they do? **** us in the face all the time. Stupidity, pure stupidity.

 

[edenwaith]

Sick of it all

I'm so sick of M$ trying to put its filthy hands into EVERYONE'S pockets. Another company comes up with an idea which might make some money, M$ decides to make its own crappy version. I finally took a brief look at M$'s movie making software...so what? I've pretty much never used iMovie either and don't see it as that critical of an application, yet M$ decided that if Apple is doing it, then they should, too. Same again with this music service crap. I was reflecting today that perhaps if M$ had been split up, then perhaps a separate company making just Windows would be able to concentrate all of its time in just improving the OS instead of trying to spread itself out as thinly as possible.

 

[tizza]

Is anyone forgetting patents?

Let's not forget that because Apple was the first to market, they probably hold some imporatant patents in the area of online, legal music puchasing. You can't just get around patents overnight. I work for Canon, and it took Canon years after Xerox brought out the first photocopier to bring one out themselves as they had to get around all Xerox's patents.

Let's give Apple a chance here!

 

[merges]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
WAKE THE ---- UP APPLE!!!!

At least get the party started in Canada!

I didn't know smart people could be so dumb.

Honestly, do you think that Apple, who carefully recruits literally many of the top, innovate talents in engineering, marketing, design, and dozens of other fields, doesn't know what's going on?

I can't believe how incredibly naive many of the folks on this board seem to be... Issues like international and Windows availability of the iTMS are discussed here as if Apple hasn't been thinking about them in depth for months, certainly well before there were even *rumours* of the service.

To those of you complaining about Apple's strategy: If you're so brilliant, go ahead and start an electronic music distribution service, on Mac OS X and Windows, internationally. Your comments belie little understanding of the actual details and complexities of executing a service like this, but then again, maybe you're right. Prove it.

 

[xtekdiver]

Re: monopoly?

Originally posted by coolfactor
We've all heard that competition is good, which it is. I'm curious why people think we all have to fish out of the same pond. Why does the iTMS have to be the only bar in town? It doesn't. The market is constantly changing, so whether the Windows version launched in April or launches in December is irrelevant. The important thing is that people are using it. And people will use it whether it's the only one or one of a dozen. Why? Because it'll be the best!

I couldn't agree more. But herin lies the rub for Apple: once they port iTunes and it becomes a raging success, why not iPhoto or iDVD? I mean the software is so awsome and easy to use and there is nothing on the wintel platform that comes close. If Apple only has 3.5% market share but is able to make money, imagine how much they will make porting their iApps and making them available to Windows users. I think iTunes is the first domino that will eventually bring Apple head to head with Microsoft. I have been using OS X for about two months and I am simply amazed at it's power, simplicity, and elegance. It is a real shame that most Windows users are being denied this experiance and mostly out of simple ignorance. Once they get a taste for it they will want more. This iTunes thing could very well be a turning point for the Apple platform. I am doing things with my computer that I simply couldn't do on a PC and it literaly is changing my life...for the better. Taking photos and movies of my child, enjoying music in ways I couldn't before, ect... it's awsome. I find myself lamenting the fact that so few people are experiancing this. I hope that iTunes will bring the Apple experiance to more people and plant the thought in people's minds as to what the Apple thing is all about.

 

[elmimmo]

Whatever the options, I will not buy a single song online when the full album costs me two thirds than what it costs at the store, in a pristine CD without permanent crappy marker and its nice jewell case, cover and booklet. Either from MS, Apple or the Pope.

Maybe competition will bring those prices down and introduce format flexibility as one of the selling points, but quite a few people in this forum does not seem to think that competition usually deals with those issues.

 

[thedoc1111]

Hey, I don't generally condone this sort of stuff, but if M$ has bllackmailed enough record labels to put its stuff in this store, then there's only one thing that'll put them off - come on you h*ckers

hehe

 

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by merges

I can't believe how incredibly naive many of the folks on this board seem to be... Issues like international and Windows availability of the iTMS are discussed here as if Apple hasn't been thinking about them in depth for months, certainly well before there were even *rumours* of the service.

To those of you complaining about Apple's strategy: If you're so brilliant, go ahead and start an electronic music distribution service, on Mac OS X and Windows, internationally. Your comments belie little understanding of the actual details and complexities of executing a service like this, but then again, maybe you're right. Prove it.

So it's legal complexities that also stop iPhoto from offering the same functionality to international customers as US customers. It's legal complexities that make Sherlock so useless outside of the US.
You may have a point with iTMS but it's part of a pattern. Cool stuff first for the US market and screw the rest of you...

 

[arn]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
So it's legal complexities that also stop iPhoto from offering the same functionality to international customers as US customers. It's legal complexities that make Sherlock so useless outside of the US.
You may have a point with iTMS but it's part of a pattern. Cool stuff first for the US market and screw the rest of you...

They're working on the iPhoto thing: https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030721103214.shtml

I agree with the original poster, though it doesn't necessarily mean that people will or should stop complaining that Apple hasn't expanded their market reach.

Currently, iTunes is not available for Windows or Internationa customers. I also believe it's mostly a licesning issue that is holding these things back. -- as many rumors have indicated.

arn

 

[Thanatoast]

I would rather that Apple take the time to port iTunes with the highest confidence in its stability, simplicity and elegance than rush it out to market.

First, MS users are already used to crappy software. If iTunes comes out just as buggy/crappy as MS stuff, they will see no reason to download it and use it. If, however, Apple spends all the time it can making sure that it works as simply and elegantly as it does on a mac, people will be impressed. The switch campaign never really ends, you see.

Second, what is the DRM on this new MS service going to look like? That's a major point. I will make a wild-assed guess and say it'll be locked down fairly tight. Maybe not as bad as it could be, but almost certainly not as loose as iTMS. This could be a major selling point.

Three, despite WMP9's earlier release, most of the techie world, and not an insignificant portion of everyone else, already has heard of iTMS and how (well sh*t, there's just no other word) cool it is. Those people will look at what WMP9 has to offer, then they will look at iTMS and decide which to use. All prejudices aside, I have to give the majority of those decisions to iTMS. (Since I've obviously used this WMP9 service in Europe and I know what I'm talking about )

Another point, when iTMS for windows finally rolls out, it might still only be for US users. You'll notice that the MS service is only for Europe. Different markets. Now what would be nifty is if Apple rolled out iTMS for windows *and* international service at the same time. That would be a major coup, but fairly unlikely I think.

Just some things to ponder on.

[Edit]

Okay one more thought. Another reason iTunes for windows might be taking a long time is the iPod. There's no tight intergration in the PC world. Apple has to adjust for funky drivers and USB2.0. Plus I assume there would still be the three computer limit on purchased songs. Maybe that's more difficult to do on windows?

 

[trianglejuice]

Originally posted by DTphonehome
I agree that iTMS is a far better service, and will be way better than the competition for a while. But, we use macs because they are "good and easy to use", but it seems 95% of the world doesn't really care about that. They want compatibility, and Apple doesn't have it. This was just poorly thought out. Apple made the music download business a reality, and now they're letting all the buzzards swoop in and take over.

They want compatibility?
Isn't QuickTime compatible enough?
Micro$oft just got the luck that everyone has chosen for them in 1984. Kinda the same thing with BetaMax Vs. VHS... People chose for the wrong thing.

 

[blogo]

I dont think it will be a problem, even final cut pro is easier to use than windows media player, so adding a music store to it will just be more confusing.

 

[abdul]

well if the EU get their law case against ms won, then windows media player cannot be bundled into the os, so that leaves apple with a fairer field to play on, as in either case they would have to download the player.

lets just hpe the EU win this case against MS

 

[Swinny]

Well I've just opened up WMP9 and clicked on the Premium Services link and then the MSN Music Downloads link and I get to a page that doesnt scale to the size of the player and asks me to login...can browse as a guest though...big adverts everywhere (just for the service though) and a very confusing layout...looks like a web page being viewed inside another bit of software, rather than the integrated service iTunes offers.

...Seems to be a good selection of music though. (To my tastes at least - Searched for the Ramones on iTunes and got a few best-ofs - whereas MSN offers all their albums...again, this is something based on personal preference obviously!)...not gonna buy anything to test quality or anything though.

Having had a browse its obvious that even months after release, iTMS is streets ahead in terms of usability...Apple just need to show people how classy, easy and straight-forward iTMS is...because, as with most things, no other service out their comes close...instead though, we'll get clever-clever adverts that appeal to the cool-kids but do absolutely nothing to show the other 95% just why Apple products are better....as someone else has said in this thread, Windows people don't look elsewhere cos MS bundle everything they need into Windows - it's about time Apple used it's marketting budget to PROVE thats its products are a viable alternative rather than just say they are.

 

[mim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nice, ???

Originally posted by bobindashadows
I actually had quite a difficult time doing just that back during the school year. A buddy of mine needed a wma of "Return of the Mack" converted to mp3 - I spent an hour and a half downloading conversion tools, but since each one was based off of WMP stuff, it refused to convert it due to DRM. I then moved it to my G4, and converted it in 2 minutes...

Was there something I missed?

heh - the right tools! So, your mac...or google for dBpowerAMP Music Converter.

 

[billyboy]

If this MS show has 200,000 songs available, is it going to be plastered in big red letters across the press, "ONLY 200 000 TRACKS". I seem to recall that Apple were dragged through a hedge for having the same inventory at launch time.

In this era of perfect access to information, it would be good to see journalists posting articles that expose the complete hypocritical and ignorant bull**** and lies that comes out of the PC Windows world when someone like Apple shows them up for being innovation dinosaurs in the music media business.

I also think Apple, who I am sure do not underestimate the power of MS and the PC propoganda machine, should stop being "nice" and whack the opposition right between the eyes. ie drop a couple of their spare billions to the best agencies in the game and just nail every PC user till they understand that there is another way of doing things out there. It seems to me that iTMS actually does try to put the customer´s needs first, again a concept that 95% of the world probably cant really get their head round, and the Apple user friendly philosophy is a concept that needs to be mercilessly pushed over the next couple of years.

I cant believe that Apple will be a minority player in this music game, but it doesnt mean they couldnt be sidelined. Even though they were into the iTMS project 18 months ago, and even though I am sure it is finished and the version for Windows works like Apple want it to work for launch day, ie really well, it´s sitting on a shelf simply waiting for the legal boys and girls to sort out the nitty gritty. And you just dont know what dark forces are at work trying to maximise earnings for the music industry and likewise, on the other side of the ring there will be Windows corporations striving to muscle Apple out the way so they can use their ideas.

They couldnt have launched an international version or a Windows version or anything other than what they did, because it was an innovation, and the iTMS was launched as a test run to prove to the Big Five dummies that it worked as well as the Apple salesman said it did.

This comes back to the marketing need. Most people dont really believe it when they are being offered something in the computer world that seems too good to be true. There always has to be a catch, right?

this makes me soooo ANGRY

 

[thies]

<i>I agree that iTMS is a far better service</i>

ah, ofcourse. You can look into the future and know how that not yet started competition will work.

At the moment it looks like this: Apple uses it's mussic store as a marketing tool. They lose sales as they hype this aspect yet you can't use it anywhere but in the US. If there are usable alternatives elsewhere before Apple, those will be adopted and Apple lost it's hype.

 

[Seahawk]

Re: Microsoft and OD2 Launch European Music Service

Originally posted by Macrumors

Apple users are presently unable to use Apple's iTunes Music service outside of the United States.

This is not entirely correct.

Works everywhere: you just need to have a credit card with a US billing address.
I personally have downloaded music from iTMS while in France, Switzerland and Italy using local ISP. No problem whatsoever.

No difference of use wrt being in the US.

 

[Jerry Spoon]

Originally posted by nagromme
"fed up with poorly thought out Apple products/services"

I think the barriers overseas are legal ones.

interesting that these other companies aren't having such legal problems I'm sure this has to do w/ Apple wanting more rights for the customer as far as burning, etc, but this is still frustrating.

 

[DanUk2003]

Not entirely accurate...

Just to say that MacRumors is not *strictly* accurate...

I've just been using Windows Media Player 9 on my PC at work, and the guide on the service actually states:

"Requires Windows Media Player 7" - which means you do NOT have to have version 9 to use the service.

MacRumors suggested the reason Macs cannot use the service was beacause it needs 9...

sorry but not true... just doesn't (currently) support Macs - as stated on the service....

 

[hvfsl]

This is old Apple all over again, they bring out something that is miles ahead of the competition and then don't bother to update update it for ages, then other companies come along and copy and wipe the floor with Apple.