Microsoft Announces 2nd Generation Zune Music Player

[Scottgfx]

Toshiba is one of the companies most likely to buy up the Zune part of Microsoft in the coming break-up for this same reason.

Personally, the fact that they re-branded a Gigabeat is no big evil to me. The fact that they didn't own up to it is fairly lame though.

I really didn't care about the Toshiba Gigabeat thing. I was merely pointing out Evangelion's hypocrisy of saying that the iPod Classic was just the same old iPod with nothing to show for it.

I just start wondering how many Microsoft employees are paid to troll the Mac-centric websites and start campaigns of whining about the littlest thing.

Apple starts an entirely new form-factor of iPod called "touch" and someone complains that the old iPod with some improvements is still sold. File this under the heading of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I attempted to make an analogy between digital music players and the cassette tape. The cassette itself was a great innovation that lasted more than 30 years. There were subtle improvements over the years. One cannot expect every new DMP to bring about a paradigm shift.

 

[2nyRiggz]

I'm quite impressed at what MS have here....the zune 2 looks better than the classic and nano IMO. The interface looks pleasing and I would like to try it out.

I'm in the market for a new player and its between the touch and the zune...but the zune lost some points not being friendly with OSX.

I would really like to try it out.


Bless

 

[Scottgfx]

indeed, very good question, people like to bashing M$ here because he beat SJ hard 15 years ago...SJ is vengeful and he breeds the vengeful culture among some apple fans, IMHO.

I think you watched "Pirates of Silicon Valley" a few too many times. Besides, Mr. Jobs wasn't working for Apple Computer 15 years ago.

 

[Evangelion]

Again, you're stuck with the fetish that people will only compare the zune to the classic. As much as you insist that the touch is different, it IS one of the products that consumers will consider when they're thinking about buying a player. Your "tomato" does serve most of the same purposes as your "orange".

To whom is Zune and classic aimed at? People who have lots of content and want to carry all of it with them. To them, touch is not alternative. When we look at touch, zune and classic, we can see that classic and zune are pretty close to each other as far as price and capabilities are concerned. touch is more expensive while offering less storage, so it's not necessarily an alternative.

 

[Evangelion]

Source?

Common sense. iPhone runs OS X. touch runs OS X. Did 2G Nano run OS X? Did 5G iPod run OS X? Which OS does classics OS remind you of: 5G iPod or iPhone?

And if classic ran OS X, then surely Apple would be shouting that fact from the rooftops. Are they? No.

The touch. I don't know why you can't understand that.

We are not talking about the touch, we are talking about the classic. I don't know why you can't understand that. So let me repeat: as far as classic is concerned: what does Apple has to show after two years of R&D?

And, if we look at your answer: After two years of R&D, Apple shows us the touch. Well, that implies that they didn't do anything to the classic during that two years. Thank you for proving my point. No, really.

 

[indianguy71]

The only reason someone would get a Zune, from what I can derive, is because iTunes on Windows is absolute crap. All my friends who are power users on Windows absolutely hate iTunes. But they love their iPods. I don't know why because iTunes works great in Mac OS X. But they hate it. They complain about crashes, memory leacks, how when you try to quit it it stalls, etc. I wouldn't be concerned if it was just one but it's four different friends. So if there was a MP3 player out there that works even remotely as well as the iPod, they might just dump the iBandwagon and go with a Zune.

It's sad really. What makes Apple so great is that they make the software and the hardware. Something Microsoft has begun emulating.

I use iTunes on windows XP on my home machine and have NEVER had any problems with it. It has never crashed on me or had slow downs or anything like that. I use iTunes on my mac at work and it is exactly the same a iTunes for windows. I would say there is something wrond with your friends computers rather than blaming iTunes.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Yuck!
this is what should happen with Zunes:

http://hideapod.com/

I figured that being at a Mac forum there'd be nothing but trolling fanboys.

Look, the thing costs the same as the 80GB iPod Classic, only
- 3.2" screen
- Touch pad that recognizes touch gestures horizontally and vertically, as well as clicking function
- Radio
- Podcast feature
- The new "Social" feature
- A beautiful UI
- Reportedly much better sound quality than the iPod classic
- Wireless syncing with PC (Think about it, what could this mean for the Xbox 360? Playing your Xbox LIVE Arcade games on your Zune on the go? :] )

That alone is reason enough for me to upgrade to the new Zune 2, over the iPod classic (which is basically the same as my iPod video 5G)

So logically, I think the 2une 80GB is better worth the value.

Although the 320x240 resolution makes me sad

Direct competitor with iPod Touch?

I DON"T THINK SO!

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

iPod touch = $300 for 8GB
2une = $250 for 80GB, and only a 0.3" smaller screen.

Er . . . the renewed ugly, I suppose. Barfola. Apparently MS still has a sign above the employees' entrance: "Abandon all taste, ye who enter in."

Last time I checked black is still in style.
http://blog.wired.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/02/zuneviphone_2.jpg

As far as the other colors, I'd never buy them, so I don't care.

Honestly, is this all you people can come up with? Random unbased flames you can hide behind simply because this is a Mac forum? Heh.

ugly much? they even incorporated the black border that's present on the new iMac screens. and for a multi billion dollar corporation, only selling a million of these in a year is kinda embarrassing...

I personally think it's because it was competing with a
- touch wheel
- very thin design
- nice colors
- established name
- itunes

they already added a touchpad, made it much slimmer, made the UI gorgeous, colors, meh, I'll go with black, and the Zune Marketplace has a few pluses over iTunes.

I personally believe MS did not reveal a "touch" Zune because it would obviously look it's copying the iPod, and secondly, they'd probably have to use flash memory, and don't want to be stupid like Apple and use flash memory when it's only affordable in 8 and 16GB capacities for a large widescreen touchscreen Zune.

 

[foxpaws]

The Microsoft Empire Strikes Back! Well...they're trying to.

I suppose the new Zunes will impress some people, but I can not find a stronger word that "blatantly unoriginal" to describe Microsoft's releases, the Zune is simply the perfect posterboy for this new "Let's try to steal Apple's thunder" phase. Here's another word: sad.

It is my personal opinion that Microsoft's recent trend of releasing lackluster, overpromoted and downright impractical (Harsh? Perhaps. But true.) releases is starting to take quite a toll on their credibility. Only 1.2 Million Zunes Sold? There are cities with more people than that. (About how many people WORK for Microsoft? That's probably the majority of the Zune Market anyway) And here comes phase 2, and I'm seeing no real improvement. Especially with the iPod touch, with the Classic and new Nanos, these Zunes are an obvious "scramble" tactic to counter Apple's new releases. Can they compete with Apple's success? Short answer would be most likely no. Unless they manage to get those Zunes to look, act, and perform much much better. And if the Zunes turn out to be a superior product in the near or far future, fine. But then again, the trend of MS's quality is on more of a downward trend than anything.

And competing with Apple is no excuse. If Microsoft was truly a company that earned it's multi-billion dollar status, then one would think they could overcome what one VERY "savvy" columnist said in 2001 "A puny pathetic little white card box that's more doomed to fail than anything"
It's not the "competition" aspect that Microsoft has a problem with. It's that Microsoft perpetually releases inferior products. That's what happens when a company is so used to success that cutting corners becomes a "norm" so much so that when a company at one point so close to the brink of destruction that people were literally told to 'pray' for it, and said company could pull itself back from the void, and so easilly surpass the former powerhouse in technological superiority, the good folks as Microsoft has found themselves having to compensate their poor taste, lack of originality, and downright poor production ethic. And in rushed products like the Zune, in which Microsoft was already 5 years too late into the game, it's like that fail to live up to modern standards. And no, it didn't have to be that way. Imagine if Zune actually lived up to the hype. Imagine if MS managed to create a Media Player that was so good, it blew iPod out of the water. It was and still is well within MS's ability to do that. They have the money, the power, the researchers, hell, even the resources. But they lack both the taste, and the ethic. That, is why they continue to fail.

And I'd LOVE to see MS even try to compete with the iPod touch. And I can predict that when the 2G iPod touch comes out, it's all over for the Zune. With all the patents and improvements I've heard about within the last few months, these Zune-Nanos, and Zune-Bricks could be the series swan song.
One can only dream....

 

[Scottgfx]

I figured that being at a Mac forum there'd be nothing but trolling fanboys.

So, you came here to feel at home? Ahhh, welcome Mac Fanboy!!!

 

[Scottgfx]

Honestly, is this all you people can come up with? Random unbased flames you can hide behind simply because this is a Mac forum? Heh.

Well you did tell me that was all you had to live for.

 

[Scottgfx]

I personally believe MS did not reveal a "touch" Zune because it would obviously look it's copying the iPod...

You are wrong here. Microsoft did show its "Touch" Zune earlier this year. It's called "Surface". They just haven't figured out how to make it fit into your pocket. Actually, a fork-lift might work well in this instance.

 

[foxpaws]

Indeed, when people said Multi-Touch was "The next BIG thing" Microsoft took it a tad too literally.

Then again, if Microsoft were to even attempt a 160 GB Zune model, we might find use for that forklift after all!

Honestly, what in the last 25 years has Microsoft produced that was effective, practical, and tasteful? This is not a snide or rhetorical question. I challenge anyone to find one thing, hardware, or software, that was actually good at it's job. Windows? Zune? The BFTC? (Big #$%@(*& Table Computer)
The only example I can find is MS Office, and even that is flawed.

The Zune is the perfect example of Microsoft's gross negligence of quality and practicality. They cut so many corners, they glued them together, and made the Music Brick we now call the "Zune" And in an fit of unoriginality, and more cut corners, we get these new Music Legos, that bear striking resemblance to iPod nanos.

What next? Zune Shuffle?

I'm waiting to be impressed, Microsoft!

 

[Evangelion]

It also has few drawbacks. Namely, the retarded points-system that screws the consumer.

 

[fiftydollarshoe]

I figured that being at a Mac forum there'd be nothing but trolling fanboys.

- A beautiful UI
- Wireless syncing with PC (Think about it, what could this mean for the Xbox 360? Playing your Xbox LIVE Arcade games on your Zune on the go? :] )

A beautiful UI ? - Have you used it ? Navigated with it ? Could you let us know your experience ? You haven’t ? oh......

Wireless syncing ? Yes I can't wait to play my xBOX games on the go whilst I'm plugged into the AC adapter to sync ! lol !

To put myself in the shoes of a buyer with no MP3 player what would make me choose Zune over iPod ? If I just want to listen to songs and nothing else.... then maybe but you wouldn't because you'd pick up both products and the iPod would slip into your pocket much easier and that would be that..... plus the buyer would have never heard of Zune and be worried about buying a product that they know nothing about... I just can't see it happening..... plus this social thing ? What is social about listening to music with headphones ? its not... its anti-social...... why have pictures of people at a gig with headphones in ? I don't get it...... social is a bad idea.... cos people wear headphones to zone out of the world not take them to it.... music is not shared on a device like this... music is only shared in the live environment.....

 

[Evangelion]

Wireless syncing ? Yes I can't wait to play my xBOX games on the go whilst I'm plugged into the AC adapter to sync ! lol !

It actually does make sense, and I would LOVE to have that feature on the iPod touch. I would use the touch as an internet tablet besides mediaplayer. I currently use Nokia 770 as my internet tablet and it spends quite a lot of time on my nightstand. Now, with iPod touch, I would LOVE to be able to keep the touch on my nightstand, while being able to sync content to it. That way it would be plugged in all the time, it would be syncable AND it would be located where I would be using it.

 

[milo]

I'm quite impressed at what MS have here....the zune 2 looks better than the classic and nano IMO.

In what way does the zune look better than the nano? It's thicker, smaller screen, worse battery life. Looking at the specs, I don't see anything better on the flash zune.

To whom is Zune and classic aimed at? People who have lots of content and want to carry all of it with them. To them, touch is not alternative. When we look at touch, zune and classic, we can see that classic and zune are pretty close to each other as far as price and capabilities are concerned. touch is more expensive while offering less storage, so it's not necessarily an alternative.

Zune also appeals to those who want a bigger screen. For people most concerned with screen size, the options are Zune and touch. Zune 80 is competing against two models, since they only offer one "big" model - whether it competes well with either is the question. The fact is that some potential zune sales will be lost to the touch, if that's because zune doesn't offer anything that competes well with it, that's their own fault.

Common sense. iPhone runs OS X. touch runs OS X. Did 2G Nano run OS X? Did 5G iPod run OS X? Which OS does classics OS remind you of: 5G iPod or iPhone?

So you don't know, you're just making a guess. Thanks for clearing that up. If anyone has sourced info on what OS the nano and classic are running, I'd like to see it.

We are not talking about the touch, we are talking about the classic. I don't know why you can't understand that. So let me repeat: as far as classic is concerned: what does Apple has to show after two years of R&D?

It's simply an idiotic question. The classic wasn't developed in a vacuum. Apple's two years of R&D are shown in the full product line. They put their efforts into the touch and nano, both products with much more potential than the classic. The classic is a niche product that they probably could have even discontinued, but they kept it alive to not lose that niche.

And, if we look at your answer: After two years of R&D, Apple shows us the touch. Well, that implies that they didn't do anything to the classic during that two years. Thank you for proving my point. No, really.

Well, they did SOMETHING to the classic, it's just fairly minimal since the product is pretty mature already, and it meets a specific need for a specific relatively small part of the market. I'm glad you at least are finally admitting that the iPod team has made some innovation. You're just not happy about it, I guess because they focused least on the product you're most interested in. But that's the right move since it's the product that sells the least.

 

[milo]

I figured that being at a Mac forum there'd be nothing but trolling fanboys.

Look, the thing costs the same as the 80GB iPod Classic, only
- 3.2" screen
- Touch pad that recognizes touch gestures horizontally and vertically, as well as clicking function
- Radio
- Podcast feature
- The new "Social" feature
- A beautiful UI
- Reportedly much better sound quality than the iPod classic
- Wireless syncing with PC (Think about it, what could this mean for the Xbox 360? Playing your Xbox LIVE Arcade games on your Zune on the go? :] )

We haven't seen how well the touchpad works or the "beautiful" interface. iPod already has podcasts. The "social" feature is only useful if you find other zunes, personally I have yet to see a single zune in use, ever. We haven't heard sound quality yet. And the wireless syncing only works when the Zune is plugged into a dock or AC adapter, removing any potential advantage. Not to mention that the games thing is complete speculation on your part.

You fail to mention that the classic has 50% better battery life and is slimmer, plus zune offers no 160 gig option for those who may want it. And for anyone interested in wifi internet, the zune can't compete at all. It only compares favorably to the touch for people who want the bigger screen but with no intention of using the wireless internet.

And that's just the 80 gig zune, on the flash side I don't see any advantage for the flash zune over the nano, and that's by far the biggest part of the market.

 

[DMann]

Classic iPod

And, if we look at your answer: After two years of R&D, Apple shows us the touch. Well, that implies that they didn't do anything to the classic during that two years. Thank you for proving my point. No, really.

True, for those who need to carry a portable 30-80 Gig Hard Drive around with them, the Classic is the preferred choice. Apple didn't really feel the need to update it, as it is already well designed overall, functions reliably, and the Hard Drive models wouldn't respond as well using "touch" technology as flash based drives do. (latency) Perhaps they're slowly phasing the Classic out, as flash drive capacity becomes larger and less expensive, and did not want to direct energy toward updating an older and limited technology. Also, by not updating the Classic, Apple avoids the revelation given by B Gates: "The old one basically sucked, and the newer one is gettin' better.."

 

[milo]

True, for those who need to carry a portable 30-80 Gig Hard Drive around with them...

And don't forget 160.

 

[GoodWatch]

And don't forget 160.

My second MP3 player was a 30 GB Creative model. The size of a small WalkMan. The sound quality with the right set of headphones was incredible for such a device. Anyhoo, I could store my entire CD collection (ripped) on that thing, with room to spare. And then what? Who needs 3000 plus songs? I just put it on shuffle because navigating through 3000 songs was a drag. Now it’s different because there’s other content, like video. To me, 8 to 16 GB is more than adequate because I only use it on my bike.

 

[clevin]

In what way does the zune look better than the nano? It's thicker, smaller screen, worse battery life. Looking at the specs, I don't see anything better on the flash zune.

?? did you read all the info there?

ZUNE has wireless syncing (yeah, you gonna say its no big deal, so predictable)
wi-fi, 802.11b/g (consider M$ can just update firmware to allow internet, since they seems like to back port functions for old users)
charge faster
plays wmv
has a FM turner

are these not better?

Zune also appeals to those who want a bigger screen. For people most concerned with screen size, the options are Zune and touch. Zune 80 is competing against two models, since they only offer one "big" model - whether it competes well with either is the question. The fact is that some potential zune sales will be lost to the touch, if that's because zune doesn't offer anything that competes well with it, that's their own fault.

how ishful thinking, remember ZUNE 1 30G, with big screen, is now only $190. with all the functions of ZUNE2.

either way, you are concedeing ipod classic 80G is in weak position, right?

It's simply an idiotic question. The classic wasn't developed in a vacuum. Apple's two years of R&D are shown in the full product line. They put their efforts into the touch and nano, both products with much more potential than the classic. The classic is a niche product that they probably could have even discontinued, but they kept it alive to not lose that niche.

so the proud of "carry all your collection" are now officially abandoned?

Well, they did SOMETHING to the classic, it's just fairly minimal since the product is pretty mature already, and it meets a specific need for a specific relatively small part of the market. I'm glad you at least are finally admitting that the iPod team has made some innovation. You're just not happy about it, I guess because they focused least on the product you're most interested in. But that's the right move since it's the product that sells the least.

small part of market, I feel bad for iPod 30G/60G/80G/160G owners.

 

[milo]

Who needs 3000 plus songs?

It's not just songs, it's video and files as well. Movies can be well over a gig apiece.

And some people use lossless compression which takes up much more space.

ZUNE has wireless syncing (yeah, you gonna say its no big deal, so predictable)
wi-fi, 802.11b/g (consider M$ can just update firmware to allow internet, since they seems like to back port functions for old users)
charge faster
plays wmv
has a FM turner
are these not better?

They're not better if they're not things consumers want. Competing units have had FM for years and that's had zero effect on sales. And is "charge faster" really that impressive on a unit with lower battery life?

how ishful thinking, remember ZUNE 1 30G, with big screen, is now only $190. with all the functions of ZUNE2.

either way, you are concedeing ipod classic 80G is in weak position, right?

I'm not sure what you mean by "ishful" thinking. But no, I haven't said that, you sure are eager to put words in people's mouths, aren't you? I definitely think the larger screen compares well to the classic, but I don't think any of the other features are things that more than a handful of users will care about, while things like the battery life are a huge drawback. And even if you think the classic compares poorly to the zune, that doesn't even matter much since HD based models are the smallest part of the market so most people will be deciding between touch and nano anyway.

so the proud of "carry all your collection" are now officially abandoned?

Not getting the most innovative is hardly "abandoned".

 

[GoodWatch]

It's not just songs, it's video and files as well. Movies can be well over a gig apiece."

May I quote from my own post? "Now it’s different because there’s other content, like video".

 

[milo]

May I quote from my own post? "Now it’s different because there’s other content, like video".

Sorry I missed that. I guess you answered your own question.

 

[GoodWatch]

Sorry I missed that. I guess you answered your own question.

No, it remains. Who needs 3000 plus songs on a portable device?