Microsoft Announces Intel Atom-Based Surface 3 With Windows 8.1 for $499

[mdelaney123]

It's one reason why I'm considering the SP3 for my creative work using the stylus for sketchbook pro or using manga studio pro.

WOW! My son has been asking for a Wacom for a while now and would like to use it with Manga Studio Pro. His BD is in late May and after trying the Surface 3, I went ahead and pre-ordered one for him. I was impressed with the Pen and think he will love it.

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If people approach it as a tablet and don't try to run applications that were really written for a laptop or desktop it may be an ok device. My fear is that Microsoft may be setting themselves up for a fail by overselling the new Surface 3 as the solution to everything. The base configuration is probably going to suffer due to slow processor in addition to lack of memory for many applications, which may be mitigated to some extend by flash memory (though I will wait to see if they are using SSD equivalent flash or some slower version used in tablets).


Microsoft may be setting themselves for a failure by over-selling the devices capabilities.

We were probably typing at the same time, so you may have missed my post right before yours... I tried the base model Surface 3 at the MS store... Loaded Word, Excel, IE, Powerpoint all at the same time... This thing is FAST. No Slowdown. I do not think they are over-stating its capabilities. For an extra $100 you get 4GB and 128GB of storage... But, the base 2GB was PLENTY capable.

 

[Liquorpuki]

If people approach it as a tablet and don't try to run applications that were really written for a laptop or desktop it may be an ok device. My fear is that Microsoft may be setting themselves up for a fail by overselling the new Surface 3 as the solution to everything. The base configuration is probably going to suffer due to slow processor in addition to lack of memory for many applications, which may be mitigated to some extend by flash memory (though I will wait to see if they are using SSD equivalent flash or some slower version used in tablets).

MS has been using mSATA SSD's on the Surface line since the original RT.

Spec wise, the thing is a step above the Dell Venue 8 Pro, which most people didn't have a problem with. It looks like it'll be fine for the same use cases

 

[kodos]

My main point being is that when Apple introduces a similar product to the Surface Pro 3, and it will happen soon, Apple will blow the competition out of the water.

Their biggest innovation over the Surface Pro 3 is liable to be a Gold plated Trackpad.

The Gold Plated Stylus will be a $2,000 option.

 

[niun]

Their biggest innovation over the Surface Pro 3 is liable to be a Gold plated Trackpad.

The Gold Plated Stylus will be a $2,000 option.

Heh, MS is releasing the pen in four vibrant colours at £44 each so they are learning something from Apple.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

WOW! My son has been asking for a Wacom for a while now and would like to use it with Manga Studio Pro. His BD is in late May and after trying the Surface 3, I went ahead and pre-ordered one for him. I was impressed with the Pen and think he will love it.

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We were probably typing at the same time, so you may have missed my post right before yours... I tried the base model Surface 3 at the MS store... Loaded Word, Excel, IE, Powerpoint all at the same time... This thing is FAST. No Slowdown. I do not think they are over-stating its capabilities. For an extra $100 you get 4GB and 128GB of storage... But, the base 2GB was PLENTY capable.

I swear by Manga Studio since it had a great inking and paint engine designed for comics illustration or other images. The toner effects is built in and saves a lot of time.

 

[paysdoufs]

As stated, it can lay flat, but it's much more secure snapped up in that position, and much more comfortable to type on. You'll notice that most keyboards not on a laptop and not designed to be as cheap as possible have some angle to them.

It doesn't take up any real estate at all. It snaps to the bezel.

Thanks guys. With your explanations it becomes clear. Quite logic, actually, that a full-width contact is more stable than when it's only the connector ports.

 

[Alklha]

I'm not hating on Surface Pro 3 at all. But in all seriousness, it's build quality is not even comparable to anything produced by Apple—regardless if it's a "beast of a machine", or not. (And even worse, it runs Windows.)

My main point being is that when Apple introduces a similar product to the Surface Pro 3, and it will happen soon, Apple will blow the competition out of the water.

If the rumoured iPad Pro runs OSX, then sure. The thing is that it won't run OSX. An iPad Pro running iOS isn't remotely comparable to the Surface Pro 3, and I doubt we see a hybrid OS.

Apple will likely add a few features to iOS, and tell everyone that is all you need on an iPad Pro. I hope I'm wrong, I'd love to ditch my MBP when travelling and only need to carry an iPad Pro.

 

[Euge]

The idea isn't different. The implementation is.

I don't believe that is enough to make it more successful. I think they need to change their entire approach. Otherwise it's just an attempt to do what they did before, but with newer technology. Like I said before I don't think that's enough for it to take over the tablet market.

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I had a Fujitsu P1510d back in the day and everything was totally different

• Most touchscreens were resistive
• Tablets back then were convertibles. Slates didn't become synonymous with tablets until the iPad
• Windows Tablet OS was just the same desktop XP with a touch overlay
• Wasn't much you can do with the pen other than handwriting recognition and drawing directly into Office

Back when the SP1 came out, I was saying its success would hinge on leveraging the x86 software ecosystem to make the iPad look like a toy. Like everyone else I thought RT was dumb. Only reason it existed was so MS could have their foot in the door if ARM won the ARM vx x86 war, but Apple was already miles ahead with its ARM ecosystem. Well now RT is dead and MS is all in on x86.

Everything you listed is just technology. The approach is still the same. It's their desktop software on a tablet.

 

[rowspaxe]

I have to disagree here. It's a superbly built device. Very solid. Very clean and the kickstand is genius.

I'm sure may eyes roll when the words "kickstand" and "genius" occur in the
same sentence--but its a very elegant design and implementation.

 

[LordVic]

I don't believe that is enough to make it more successful. I think they need to change their entire approach. Otherwise it's just an attempt to do what they did before, but with newer technology. Like I said before I don't think that's enough for it to take over the tablet market.

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Everything you listed is just technology. The approach is still the same. It's their desktop software on a tablet.

Euge, I get that it probably doesn't make sense for you, and I wouldn't begin to try to tell you how to shoe horn this into your life if you couldn't find how.

But Microsoft's recent numbers on the Pro line, especially post the Pro 3 launch has indicated that users are in fact willing and happy with this implementation over the one from decades ago. The Pro line has proven to be a profitable business venture for Microsoft.


not so much the RT line, which is often commonly being used to describe Microsoft tablets as a failure

The RT line failed. Miserably. The pro line has been a success. however, MacRumors has only previously reported on the RT lines failures which many seem to only want to repeat without trying to discover facts on their own

Microsoft is now hoping that they can replace RT line with this product and see similar success.

Now, if you're going to compare it to the numbers of iPads' sold, yes it will be seen as unsuccesfull due to the sheer overwhelming volume of ipads that have been sold, But thats not the point. Microsoft is turning profit on Surface Pro's and do ship. It has blown the previous tablet/ slate adoption out fo the water. This isn't including the other Windows 8.1 tablet makers who are seeing success as well

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-surface-hits-1bn-revenue-mission-accomplished/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2015/01/29/microsoft-surface-pro-3-hot-or-not/
http://news.investors.com/technolog...e-pro-3-selling-well-could-boost-q2-sales.htm

 

[tdale]

I'm not hating on Surface Pro 3 at all. But in all seriousness, it's build quality is not even comparable to anything produced by Apple—regardless if it's a "beast of a machine", or not. (And even worse, it runs Windows.)

My main point being is that when Apple introduces a similar product to the Surface Pro 3, and it will happen soon, Apple will blow the competition out of the water.

Thats rubbish. There is nothing wrong at all with the build quality, you are just a MS hater. Apple build quality? Don;t you follow the ongoing and regular issues they have? Clearly not or you ignore them.

A beast of a machine? LOL. Or do you prefer thinner and lighter as that makes for faster, more capable machine?

I am an Apple user, but your comments have no credibility as you just hate MS

 

[sracer]

If the rumoured iPad Pro runs OSX, then sure. The thing is that it won't run OSX. An iPad Pro running iOS isn't remotely comparable to the Surface Pro 3, and I doubt we see a hybrid OS.

Apple will likely add a few features to iOS, and tell everyone that is all you need on an iPad Pro. I hope I'm wrong, I'd love to ditch my MBP when travelling and only need to carry an iPad Pro.

The iOS ecosystem is pretty robust with regard to the availability and functionality of the apps. An update to iOS in support of an iPad Pro (re:multiwindow, mouse, etc.) would enable developers to enhance their apps further.

While I agree that an iPad Pro running iOS isn't directly comparable to an SP3, there are enough mature iOS apps to offer an alternative that doesn't require a desktop OS on a tablet for some use cases.

Thats rubbish. There is nothing wrong at all with the build quality, you are just a MS hater. Apple build quality? Don;t you follow the ongoing and regular issues they have? Clearly not or you ignore them.

Yeah, i found that claim, laughable.

 

[tdale]

I'm sure the iPad will be fine. What the Surface does do is kill the Android tablet market. Why would I spend $500 for a Samsung tablet when I can buy the Surface and get so much more?

The iPad bears no resemblance to an SP3. Its a consumption based tablet, the SP3 is that, and a full computer in tablet form. But at a similar price to my iPad Air 128 its a great buy. Problem is the lack of tablet apps

Its bound to move Android tablet users to a Windows tablet for better Windos integration, but again, lack of apps

 

[Liquorpuki]

Everything you listed is just technology. The approach is still the same. It's their desktop software on a tablet.

Not the same approach. MS's goal now is to converge mobile and desktop. W10 running on multiple devices is the result of this. Same w/ ditching ARM for x86 so you can run desktop apps on a tablet.

They weren't doing this before

 

[tdale]

I agree. The iPad is just too good of an appliance to ever be totally killed by Microsoft. Even with my SP3, I still use my iPad a lot - it's just a better reader, a better light Internet browser, a better music device, a better kitchen counter device. And the battery life is in a different realm. Android tablets are a lot closer to the Surface in all of those features, so I expect they will largely die out.

I dont disagree, but my iPad Air 128 is about the same price as an SP3 4GB, 128.That's quite compelling.

 

[LordVic]

I dont disagree, but my iPad Air 128 is about the same price as an SP3 4GB, 128.That's quite compelling.

it comes down to "opportunity cost" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost (not for you, but for other readers who might not know what this means)

if you have X amount of money and have to make a choice, you should try and make a choice that best fits to solve the most needs all at once.

if you had 599 to spend and you need a tablet, and you also need a laptop for various reasons.

there is opportunity costs involved. Do you decide to forgo the tablet? or do you choose to forgo the laptop?

What microsoft is trying to do is give you a 3rd choice. you can get both in one device. It might not be the best tablet. it might not be the best laptop, but for that 599, you get a device that covers both needs.

I would love to have both a high end SP3 and a high end iPad Air 2. but Money doesn't grow on trees, I got bills to pay.

 

[tdale]

Besides, who needs an Android tablet when you so many Android phablets to choose from?

I think the smartphone market is a two-horse race and the tablet/laptop market will merge with Windows and iOS/OSX making up the two largest players.

Apple had a chance to kill Windows with the iPad if they just added some more productivity capabilities to iOS instead of keeping the same limited feature set as the iPhone.

Agree fully. It LACKS productivity. Its too hard. Keep iOS, add functions that make productivity easier, add a less restricted file system. You don't need Finder, you just ant an easy way to copy a file to an iOS app without having to resort to iTunes syncing, cloud apps that the other person may not have. USB adaptor that allows pasting files to the app that uses them.

 

[Steve121178]

I'm not hating on Surface Pro 3 at all. But in all seriousness, it's build quality is not even comparable to anything produced by Apple—regardless if it's a "beast of a machine", or not. (And even worse, it runs Windows.)

My main point being is that when Apple introduces a similar product to the Surface Pro 3, and it will happen soon, Apple will blow the competition out of the water.

How will Apple blow the competition (SP3) out of the water soon when OS X isn't even optimised for touch? Microsoft are literally light years ahead of Apple and everyone else when it comes to software and software innovation. I can't see Apple offering a product like this for some time.

I can see Apple offering an iPad Pro, but that will be totally gimped due to the restrictive and closed nature of iOS. The beauty of Windows is that you can do anything you want. With Apple, it's Apple's way only.

 

[tdale]

If people approach it as a tablet and don't try to run applications that were really written for a laptop or desktop it may be an ok device. My fear is that Microsoft may be setting themselves up for a fail by overselling the new Surface 3 as the solution to everything. The base configuration is probably going to suffer due to slow processor in addition to lack of memory for many applications, which may be mitigated to some extend by flash memory (though I will wait to see if they are using SSD equivalent flash or some slower version used in tablets).

A lot of windows users attacked the new Macbook (which is meant as a laptop) because the new processor was too underpowered. The base CPU used in the new Macbook is the M-5Y70 which probably is probably within striking distance of the last revision of Intel processors used in the last revision of the Macbook Air. Not the most powerful processor, but with the extra memory (8GB) and fast SSD it should be sufficient enough for it's target audience.

This device is actually powered by a processor that is a notch below the new Macbook processor. It is a processor meant to be used in tablets (price around $20 / CPU vs $220+ for the Core-M) and priced that way. Based on the top performance marks for the Lenovo using 5Y70 vs the first few tests on the new Atom x7-z8700 (top of the line Atom CPU).... The Atom x7 - with all 4 cores test at around 79% the performance of the M-5Y70. Single core performance tests at 39% performance. Most applications are mostly developed to ONLY use a single core - which means that the performance benchmark for typical applications are 39% that of the 5Y70.

Microsoft may be setting themselves for a failure by over-selling the devices capabilities.

Where are they saying its a laptop/desktop replacement? As with any tablet or hybrid, its meant to be a laptop replacement on the go. Not a super powered computer

 

[Steve121178]

Apple had a chance to kill Windows with the iPad if they just added some more productivity capabilities to iOS instead of keeping the same limited feature set as the iPhone.

So as a Windows killer, you thought an iPad could be the standard for the Enterprise and every person who was in the market for a new PC if only it had more productivity capabilities?

I don't even know where to start with this one...

 

[tdale]

it comes down to "opportunity cost" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost (not for you, but for other readers who might not know what this means)

if you have X amount of money and have to make a choice, you should try and make a choice that best fits to solve the most needs all at once.

if you had 599 to spend and you need a tablet, and you also need a laptop for various reasons.

there is opportunity costs involved. Do you decide to forgo the tablet? or do you choose to forgo the laptop?

What microsoft is trying to do is give you a 3rd choice. you can get both in one device. It might not be the best tablet. it might not be the best laptop, but for that 599, you get a device that covers both needs.

I would love to have both a high end SP3 and a high end iPad Air 2. but Money doesn't grow on trees, I got bills to pay.

Agree. Now if I can get all of my apps on iOS and Metro, that would change everything. As a tablet the SP3 is light and small, but not as light and small as an iPad, not much to worry about there. As a laptop it works like a laptop. I don't feel that being a hybrid it is as compromised as some make out.

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So as a Windows killer, you thought an iPad could be the standard for the Enterprise and every person who was in the market for a new PC if only it had more productivity capabilities?

I don't even know where to start with this one...

LOL, same. If his post mentioned Surface killer, that would make some sense.

 

[bkkcanuck]

How will Apple blow the competition (SP3) out of the water soon when OS X isn't even optimised for touch? Microsoft are literally light years ahead of Apple and everyone else when it comes to software and software innovation. I can't see Apple offering a product like this for some time.

I can see Apple offering an iPad Pro, but that will be totally gimped due to the restrictive and closed nature of iOS. The beauty of Windows is that you can do anything you want. With Apple, it's Apple's way only.

Dell (in conjunction with XPS 13 customers) has indicated that the majority of their customers do not really want their laptops to be touch devices. I fall in the same category. I would find it very tiring working in front of a touch computer all day long, not to mention the constantly greasy screen (even with washed hands). It would of course be different with a tablet, but then I do have a tablet but it was only because I did not want to lug around a laptop for the 2 or 3 times I need a device like that a month (and then I am only using it as a consumption device).

Not to say that there is a market, but there are different markets.

If Apple really believed in touch for laptops and computers it would take a matter of less than a month to integrate gestures from iOS into the OS X stream.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Apple had a chance to kill Windows with the iPad if they just added some more productivity capabilities to iOS instead of keeping the same limited feature set as the iPhone.

I think the biggest barrier for Apple is pricepoint. The iOS appstore is a single storefront, Apple is the curator, a ton of developers want in. So you get a flood of apps, limited space to show them off, 90% of them end up being free because if they weren't nobody would download then, so all you have now is a budget market on iOS.

With x86, you got complex software suites supported by $100 pricepoints. On ARM, software solutions have to be supported by $1-10 pricepoints. You're just not gonna get the same productivity solutions on ARM that you do on x86. Same goes with games, creative solutions, etc.

 

[tdale]

How will Apple blow the competition (SP3) out of the water soon when OS X isn't even optimised for touch? Microsoft are literally light years ahead of Apple and everyone else when it comes to software and software innovation. I can't see Apple offering a product like this for some time.

I can see Apple offering an iPad Pro, but that will be totally gimped due to the restrictive and closed nature of iOS. The beauty of Windows is that you can do anything you want. With Apple, it's Apple's way only.

I am an Apple fan, but you are 100% correct. iOS on a phone is great, its all about the apps. On an iPad, its great, its all about JUST consumption. Those that say the iPad is a toy are stupid, its about consumption ONLY. Watch, read, listen, play. You can be productive but its just too hard.

Allow USB device access for non restrictive copy and paste to the iOS app, allow a stylus, allow a mouse, so that you can make it a portable laptop equivalent on the go

 

[Vegasman]

Vista was a disaster, of course. Each version of Windows, in trying to be backwards compatible with previous versions, carries a lot of legacy crap with it. This is leading to Windows becoming more and more of a mess. Of course, most of it is enterprises not wanting to let go of their investments in yesteryear's technology, making Microsoft support very old systems, such as Windows XP, which is still in wide use 14 years later!! Each version of Windows has to run programs that were designed for versions much older.

All True. And yet, every version of Windows since Vista has been less bloated than the previous version.