Microsoft Announces Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

[FelixAng]

Fair enough. In the UK we're looking at month long shipping delays, only minutes after launch. The flagship store in London – Regent Street – had one single batch of iPhones on Friday, which, according to the BBC reports, was fairly minimal. They have had none since. I went there this evening after work to have a look and had a chat with an employee.

Of course some people care. Some people use the Surface. I know a couple of developers who use them, and enjoy using them. "No-one" is a bit extreme, no?

You can see I'm not new here. I don't own a single Microsoft product other than my old Xbox, you can also see that from my signature. The word "troll" is incredibly childish. I'm no advocate of Microsoft, however.

I'm not suggesting anything about the upcoming success or failure of the Surface. Simply that month long delays are not unique to MS, beloved Apple has succumbed to severe supply chain problems leading to similar delays.

As far as I can tell, MacRumors mobile doesn't display signatures. Sorry about that.

But, yeah, "no one" using a Surface is a bit extreme. They'll certainly find marketshare in developing nations, and eBay, which is good for everyone.

I'm sorry for the wait, too. I just went online, ordered mine at 7:01GMT, and went back to bed. It wasn't that hard---my wife also got order in, which is expected on Wednesday, so the tracking reads.

 

[koban4max]

preorder? BWHAHAHAHAHHAHA

to microsoft: you should focus on producing better quality tablets...
don't worry about pre-orders..

 

[pearvsapple]

Need to ditch ARM for Intel Baytrail and full fledge Windows. DOA as of now.

 

[donutbagel]

"Another failure"? "Lack of apps"?

Have you guys seen these things in person? I guess "it's not Apple, so it must be crap" right?

Surface Pro 2 IS a Windows 8 PC. You can run anything you want. Among the Windows ultraportable range, it beats pretty much all of them on build quality. The biggest issue with Surface Pro was battery life, and if they have sufficiently resolved it, this might just be what I buy to replace my iPad 3 (which is now experiencing Home button failures).

I agree RT is poorly done. It confuses people because hey, it looks like Windows, so it must be Windows. So how come I can't run my apps? I'm not surprised that one is a hard sell. But the Pro? An excellent machine.

Don't just take my word for it. Go and try one. (The Pro. Forget RT.)

So, what you're saying is that it's a laptop, not a tablet.

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Let me guess... you're one of those people that thinks a large number of people are throwing out their laptops and desktop to use a tiny smartphone screen or a tablet? You think people don't have multiple devices, using the more portable ones when it makes more sense?

POST-PC IS A MYTH.

The stats argue against you, but from what I've seen, I would agree. Nobody else I know uses an iPad to completely replace a PC besides one of my two living grandparents. I'm sticking with a 2006 MacBook that's been beaten halfway to death mostly just for computer science class.

 

[AngryCorgi]

They can run x86 programs, but not well. After all, Bay Trail is about the same as the Tegra 4 when it comes to performance. So people would be fooled into thinking they can do normal x86 things and run into that brick wall right there when everything is slow.

Surface RT can NOT run x86 code natively. The CPU is a RISC chip that has to run an emulator to interpret the code and that is only possible through use of a hack and emulation software, which of course runs like crap. Bay Trail is not built on a RISC architecture and would run x86 code without any stupid emulation. So Bay Trail, all specs aside, would run x86 apps much, much faster than the hacked + emulated ARM hardware of the current Surface RT devices.

 

[hrMACnstuff]

good 'ol microsoft just doesn't get it...

a tablet is a laptop alternative not a new type of laptop. i bought an iPad mini so i could travel without the macbook pro.
secondly, with all the dongles hanging out of the usb ports, well, so much for mobility. all the accessories for the surface could break a bank.
thirdly, its microsoft. thats about as exciting as .....well its just not exciting.
you guys need to roll balmer out. he's always good for a pump and dump.

 

[donutbagel]

Its awesome for students which IMO should be who the surface rt appeals too. Cheap but does everything a student needs. At least non science or engineering degrees

But the only people who use Windows at my school are math/science/computer people (note: inverse not true).

 

[Michael Goff]

Glad someone brought this up.

Why? It's a pointless comment.

With it's hardware specs and price, IF it ran iOS, I could actually get excited over it, but alas, it's a PC wanting to be a tablet wanting to be a PC.

No offense to iOS, but a full i5 would be wasted on it. It just doesn't need that type of power. Even the most graphically intensive games on iOS don't require a Haswell.

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So, what you're saying is that it's a laptop, not a tablet.

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The stats argue against you, but from what I've seen, I would agree. Nobody else I know uses an iPad to completely replace a PC besides one of my two living grandparents. I'm sticking with a 2006 MacBook that's been beaten halfway to death mostly just for computer science class.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics, I always say.

 

[RCGMac]

preorder? BWHAHAHAHAHHAHA

to microsoft: you should focus on producing better quality tablets...
don't worry about pre-orders..

I am not sure where some people are getting this line that the Surface tablets are not high quality tablets. Of all the criticisms of Surface, I have not seen a large number of comments critical of the build quality. From most of the reviews, the build quality of the tablet was also listed as a positive.

Surface has the albatross of Windows RT that it needs to shake. Surface Pro has a pricing problem and a battery life problem as I can buy a touch-screen ultrabook for less money and better battery life than a Pro.

Overall the Surface line has a problem with pricing, it is hard to break into the tablet market, the prices were set WAY too high at launch. It seems like Microsoft may have learned the pricing lesson now. Surface has it's problems but calling it a low quality tablet is grasping at straws.

 

[Michael Goff]

Surface RT can NOT run x86 code natively. The CPU is a RISC chip that has to run an emulator to interpret the code and that is only possible through use of a hack and emulation software, which of course runs like crap. Bay Trail is not built on a RISC architecture and would run x86 code without any stupid emulation. So Bay Trail, all specs aside, would run x86 apps much, much faster than the hacked + emulated ARM hardware of the current Surface RT devices.

Yes, it runs it better than ARM.

That doesn't mean it runs it well.

But it isn't even as if lower-end, low-power tablets need to run x86 anyway.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Ah, but you're assuming their software is actually worth anything.

How about Windows Azure that Apple uses for iCloud?

 

[iAshley]

This doesn't change anything. Just an upgraded failure. Sounds like a really stupid move to me. Maybe they should look over why it failed and try to overcome that.

It's sad really, I'd like to see Microsoft competing with apple, but does Microsoft recognise why the Surface failed or do they think of it as; "It's as quick as an iPad, better display density, at least equall specs. It should sell better than iPad."

Where apple think; "How can we improve this device for our customers, how can we make it easier to use, more effiecent, more enjoyable,
etc."

Apple builds a product based on Benefits, or what is does for you
Microsoft builds a product based on Specs

 

[wrightc23]

Surface RT can NOT run x86 code natively. The CPU is a RISC chip that has to run an emulator to interpret the code and that is only possible through use of a hack and emulation software, which of course runs like crap. Bay Trail is not built on a RISC architecture and would run x86 code without any stupid emulation. So Bay Trail, all specs aside, would run x86 apps much, much faster than the hacked + emulated ARM hardware of the current Surface RT devices.

Exactly, I guess the cost of re-engineering a failed product was just too much? Really Surface 2 RT should have arrived today at a cut down price with Bay Trail to stand a chance.

 

[Michael Goff]

Exactly, I guess the cost of re-engineering a failed product was just too much? Really Surface 2 RT should have arrived today at a cut down price with Bay Trail to stand a chance.

Surface for ARM should have arrived with a non-ARM chip?

 

[TouchMint.com]

Well, I shouldn't make Microsoft look too bad - they are NOT the only company that throw money in the toilet. But seriously, making part 2 when Part 1 was crap does not compute. It's because you have morons at the helm of the company making these decisions.

Look at the stock price - stockholders don't think it's a good idea.

True by no means is it a mistake I would repeat twice (RT version). It needs to be a lot cheaper if they want to push them. They should have dropped surface2 rt to 350 and surface1 rt to 250 (more inline with android products).

I think the regular surface is a beast of a machine and has a chance to do pretty well. This is by far the best power "tablet" on the market and close to one of the best laptops. (coming from a mac air owner).

 

[AngryCorgi]

Surface for ARM should have arrived with a non-ARM chip?

No, Surface RT should be ditched altogether and a sub-$500 non-pro tablet should have been available with bay trail and normal win8 (not WOA).

 

[whtrbt7]

I can't believe they sunk more money into producing another Surface after the sales failure on the first one. One idea to save/repurpose the surface 2 would be to make them 7-8inch screens, pop Windows Phone on them and build in a cellular radio for data and calls. There may be more buyers for such a device.

 

[HenryDJP]

Why am I here? I have been on this board much longer than you have been and much more active than you are, I am an Apple fan, but not a fanboy.

It was a simple question based on your previous post and you didn't need to go there about you being here longer than me or being more active than me, that sounds childish. I've been on the Mac for 15 years, back since the early days of Mac OS 8 and I've been consistent since then on the platform so please don't compare yourself to me just because you've been here on MR one whole year longer plus a few months. Calm down.

 

[Michael Goff]

It's sad really, I'd like to see Microsoft competing with apple, but does Microsoft recognise why the Surface failed or do they think of it as; "It's as quick as an iPad, better display density, at least equall specs. It should sell better than iPad."

Where apple think; "How can we improve this device for our customers, how can we make it easier to use, more effiecent, more enjoyable,
etc."

Apple builds a product based on Benefits, or what is does for you
Microsoft builds a product based on Specs

iPad 3 to 4 was mainly about specs.
iPad 1 to 2 was mainly about specs.

I wouldn't be surprised if 4-5 was mainly about specs.

Heck, just look at their iPhone 5S announcement. They showed some things that are going to help out consumers (TouchID) and then showed off how much faster their A7 was. They bragged about how it is 64-bit.

Apple plays the specs game just like everybody else.

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No, Surface RT should be ditched altogether and a sub-$500 non-pro tablet should have been available with bay trail and normal win8 (not WOA).

I'm sitting here, trying to think about how improved my experience would be if this Surface RT had an atom chip instead. And I'm coming up with nothing.

 

[TimCook]

nice but pricing increment over storage space is scam by both Apple & Microsoft

And on top of that Microsoft's 32GB version has the same free space as Apple's 16GB version

I really hate the cash milking for extra storage... I'd love to see Apple shift to 32/64/128 with only $50 increments for prices, but I somehow doubt they'll stop their cash cow now

 

[Xiroteus]

The Surface Pro 2, Yes! The Surface 2 RT, No.

 

[HenryDJP]

iPad 3 to 4 was mainly about specs.
iPad 1 to 2 was mainly about specs.

I wouldn't be surprised if 4-5 was mainly about specs.

Heck, just look at their iPhone 5S announcement. They showed some things that are going to help out consumers (TouchID) and then showed off how much faster their A7 was. They bragged about how it is 64-bit.

Apple plays the specs game just like everybody else.

There's a difference though. Apple showed innovation on the iPhone 5S. MS showed no innovation on the Surface 2 or Surface Pro 2. iPhone 5S is the first phone with Touch I.D. and a 64 Bit processor, couple that with amazing build quality. You're right on some things in terms of most Apple products are spec bumps but Apple sells the user experience, MS just threw specs at us and didn't even demo any of the new features. They mentioned a new GPU and battery life. They didn't even show how long the battery life could possibly be nor did they show off the power of the new GPU.

Apple demos everything they talk about with their products. Their ads show how the customer interacts with their phones in real life. Microsoft doesn't.

 

[Michael Goff]

And on top of that Microsoft's 32GB version has the same free space as Apple's 16GB version

I really hate the cash milking for extra storage... I'd love to see Apple shift to 32/64/128 with only $50 increments for prices, but I somehow doubt they'll stop their cash cow now

The 16gb iPad has over 16gb of storage? Because that's what the RT has with 8.1 (which this will be launching with). Even before that, it had around 15gb of space left.

I'd like to see this magic 16gb iPad that has more than 16gb worth of space on it.

 

[KdParker]

One month to ship pre-orders? Even if the price was right for their tablet, I wouldn't pre-order when I can just wait and see what the new iPad can do.

 

[Michael Goff]

There's a difference though. Apple showed innovation on the iPhone 5S. MS showed no innovation on the Surface 2 or Surface Pro 2. iPhone 5S is the first phone with Touch I.D. and a 64 Bit processor, couple that with amazing build quality. You're right on some things in terms of most Apple products are spec bumps but Apple sells the user experience, MS just threw specs at us and didn't even demo any of the new features. They mentioned a new GPU and battery life. They didn't even show how long the battery life could possibly be nor did they show off the power of the new GPU.

Apple demos everything they talk about with their products. Their ads show how the customer interacts with their phones in real life. Microsoft doesn't.

TouchID was innovative.

64-bit processor? Not so much. It was an expected evolution.

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One month to ship pre-orders? Even if the price was right for their tablet, I wouldn't pre-order when I can just wait and see what the new iPad can do.

I agree, they should have just shipped today. I know it wouldn't have 8.1, but that's a free upgrade anyway. Maybe take pre-orders to ship within a week or so at most.