Microsoft, Apple and Digital Music Cooperation?

Gates needs help, again

I can believe that Microsoft needs to negotiate with apple. Is there nothing they (microsoft) can do on their own. Their whole operating system interface is still revolving around our OS. Next Gatesy will want the blueprints for the iPod and he will call it the "iSkrewapple"
Leave AAC for iTunes, and leave WMA for the dinosoars.
 
I guess automating the burn-and-re-rip process to take the CD (and some steps) out of the equation wouldn't be a bad option to have, even if you ended up with a different DRM and the same quality (excellent, but some sensitive ears avoid it) that re-ripping has always had. As long as they don't block normal CD burning, which I do not see happening!

The question is, which party will easy migration help? Apple's the majority--what do they have to gain? A few music "switchers" and some iPod sales to them. MS has more to gain, it sounds like to me.

Can't blame 'em for talking, but it makes me want to be cautious!
 
Maybe Microsoft is uneasy with the success of iTunes and iPod and, with the recent Apple/HP partnership and other advances in the AAC side of things, maybe it doesn't want to get pulled into a corner or left behind.

Also, digital music is still a niche market and to fully embrace the masses, Apple and Microsoft need to work together to get one mass standard together. They realise this. The problem is, that already exists - MP3 - but that has no digital rights management. Hence we have AAC and WMA.

The problem is that if Apple concedes (i.e. WMA on iPod and iTunes), Microsoft's proprietry format will win. Likewise, if Microsoft concedes by dropping WMA or just adding AAC support to Win Media Player, Apple will be in a prominent position. An extra problem for Microsoft is that they have no control over whether Dell or any of the other PC manufactures (HP aside) choose to add AAC, or whether they are too scared to cross Microsoft and go against the grain.
 
Originally posted by jholzner
I"m glad that at least something is being done. Of course I want an iPod and to use iTunes but I don't like the idea of being LOCKED into that set up.

There's actually quite a few music management programs that you can use with iPods for both mac and windows...most notably XPlay (for Windows), Musicmatch & MC9 (Both are P.O.S. IMO) and a number of other small apps that let you manage songs and ID3 tags--it's not like there's no way to use an iPod without iTunes, it's just hampered.

Why would you complain about iTunes in the first place? As far as audio jukebox programs go it's really at the top of the heap and very reliable--nothing worth complaining about in my opinion. If you really want to piss off about a jukebox program, talk about Windows Media player...
 
I don't get it?

Why does Apple need to talk to MS? If AAC files can be converted to WMA files, meaning they work on non-iPod players, then why not just open iTunes to work with these other players and give away the liscencing for Fairplay? The effect is the same, but without having MS involved. Does anyone really believe that the only reason people are buying iPods is because that's all iTunes will officially support? People buy iPods because they are the best player out there.

I guess the real question is, will the player market add AAC/Fairplay support if licensing were free? The market's there, but who knows what MS threatens these guys with.

I do wish iTunes worked with a few flash-based players. I like my iPod, but it sucks for running. On top of that Panther locks up if I even just drag the MP3 files to my Lyra. :-(
 
AAC = Open Standard
WMA = Closed Proprietary Technology

WHen you put it like that, seems like a no brainer...
 
Re: I don't get it?

Originally posted by crazedbytheheat
Why does Apple need to talk to MS?

Good point. Microsoft doesn't own a music store -- yet. The music industry should be pushing the operators of music stores to get together to make them all compatible then.

Go on Microsoft, you just go sit over there on the bench and let the big players figure this one out. They'll let you know what they decide. Thank you.
 
It's really the DRM we're talking about.

Both AAC and WMA are the encoding formats - ways of turning sound into compressed bytes.

FairPlay and "MS-DRM" are the layers that sit on top to secure them.

Perhaps it's feasible to get FairPlay on top of WMA, or vice versa...
 
Originally posted by omnivector
Can anyone here honeslty name an OS that doesn't have a heavy UNIX influence in the past few years? Irix, AIX, Mac OS X, NeXT Step, BeOS, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and HP-UX are all i can name off the top of my head.

oh wait, windows, is the only OS that isn't based off of unix. i really wish microsoft would get a clue.

Firstly BeOS is (was) not derived from Unix. And that NT is not based on it is not a bad thing in itself, the bad thing is what MS is doing on top of the relatively solid base they have...
 
Actually, whilst BeOS is not UNIX, it could be said that it was derived from UNIX (XINU) - it has a lot in common with UNIX.

In fact, way back when, I seem to recall reading the NT was derived from UNIX as well, although clearly you wouldn't call it UNIX.
 
Originally posted by dho
To me I simply view this as annother option. Since when did choice hurt people?

When lackluster crap like M$'s software was gobbled up by the uneducated masses due to squirrelly marketing and a lot of illegal, strongarm contracts, with hardware manufacturers are proved beyond a shadow of doubt by the later bought off DOJ by the same shifty, borderline illegal software company. The this software costing the world billions in lost productivity due to incredibly poor security and coding. THAT'S when giving people (who in general aren't really that smart) can hurt them.
 
On the Apple vs Microsoft debate:
Please, could some of you guys grow up? Microsoft doesn't make money of WMA nor does apple make money off of AAC. It's a *format* for crying out loud. I'm aware of past problems where MS was hesitant to give out Word's .doc format but people figured it out anyway; when you know what information is there finding how they put it there is generally not too difficult.
The issue is simply one of compatability and a good DRM system. Neither side is making a profit (or a miniscule one) from the format beyond the simple support (e.g iPod supports AAC) and I fail to see that making any dent (chances are if I'm on a PC and want to get music for a non-iPod player I know how to put it in mp3 and I probably don't even use iTunes/The Music Store). The blind microsoft bashing I see so often really makes me glad I don't have to like the community to like the system.:rolleyes:
On the Unix OS debate:
To say an modern OS doesn't take some queues from UNIX would by silly; but there are also many ways to do things differently. It's like the automobile, most cars have signs of the model T but have obviously better features. I know some people that would call WinNT a UNIX system without blinking, I know others that are adament that MacOSX and Linux *aren't* UNIX.
 
Originally posted by displaced
Yes, choice is good... but since when have Microsoft ever done anything to encourage choice amongst their users?

When they are behind, that's when.
 
Originally posted by omnivector
Can anyone here honeslty name an OS that doesn't have a heavy UNIX influence in the past few years? Irix, AIX, Mac OS X, NeXT Step, BeOS, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and HP-UX are all i can name off the top of my head.

oh wait, windows, is the only OS that isn't based off of unix. i really wish microsoft would get a clue.

Ever heard of legacy support? If MS revamped their OS, a lot of applications would fail to run.

The PeeCee community should have used the 64-bit path as a way to improve the underlying architecture of the computers. Looks like in another 25 years they will be using a 50-year-old design.
 
Originally posted by Foocha
Actually, whilst BeOS is not UNIX, it could be said that it was derived from UNIX (XINU) - it has a lot in common with UNIX.


In fact, it does not. People often tend to believe that every Operating System that has a more or less conforming POSIX layer is a UNIX. But especially for BeOS, this is just an API layer. The architecture and philosophy of BeOS is completely untypical compared to UNIX systems. Which, btw, makes it so difficult to make it multi user.

In fact, way back when, I seem to recall reading the NT was derived from UNIX as well, although clearly you wouldn't call it UNIX.

I'm well aware that todays UNIX-Fans believe that UNIX is the mother of alle Operating Systems. But it should be well known that the NT kernel has it's roots in VMS.
 
Originally posted by omnivector
Can anyone here honeslty name an OS that doesn't have a heavy UNIX influence in the past few years? Irix, AIX, Mac OS X, NeXT Step, BeOS, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and HP-UX are all i can name off the top of my head.

oh wait, windows, is the only OS that isn't based off of unix. i really wish microsoft would get a clue.

I really hope MS doesn't get a clue... Every other idea they ripped off Apple destroyed a great idea. The world is better off without MS tampering with a great thing.
 
Originally posted by l008com

"Something's wrong with my computer"...
"Yeah, its a dell"

In my experience, Dells are the best PCs to work on (when I have to), followed closely by Sony, then IBM... I don't like dissing Dell too much; if anyone began supporting OSX in the peecee world, I believe Dell, Sony and IBM would be first.
 
Simply do away with DRM

Its going to happen. The record labels will cave in eventually. We don't have DRM on cd's purchased in the store, at least they've failed trying different methods. So why should we settle for DRM on online music?

Give us a choice of format. Ogg for compressed music or FLAC for uncompressed. Or is it because these are free formats, it goes against the corporate mindset of Apple and Microsoft?
 
Originally posted by Stolid
On the Apple vs Microsoft debate:
Please, could some of you guys grow up? Microsoft doesn't make money of WMA nor does apple make money off of AAC.

actually, i think the codec/format is the real treasure trove in the digital music revolution. look at it the same way you'd look at phillips creating the CD or sony's minidisc. we're at a business juncture of remarkable potential: a major transformation in the way music is distributed. to be the creator and controller of the way consumers will recieve their music for the next decade or so is of TREMENDOUS value to apple, microsoft, many others.
 
Originally posted by marco114
AAC = Open Standard
WMA = Closed Proprietary Technology

WHen you put it like that, seems like a no brainer...

The only difference between AAC and WMA is one is controlled by a committee and the other is controlled by a single company.

The "Open Standard" doesn't mean squat to me. I can't afford the entrance fee into AAC if I want to write my own encoder. Microsoft will sell you the rights to their format as well. Not much difference.

If I can't download it myself, it ain't open.
 
The two companies are coming at this with two completely different goals.

Microsoft is hoping to make a profit off of its proprietary format; WMA. It wants to do this by licensing the format to as wide a variety of applications, vendors, and music-players as possible. Having the WMA-format on the iPod would mean a real claim to cross-platform digital music.

Apple wants to sell iPods. The iTMS is making a minor profit -- but only exists in order to sell more iPods. It's a Trojan horse.

The way I see it, Apple has two ways to go on this. One is short-sightedly good for the consumer right now -- the other is better for Apple now and the consumer down the road.

The first being to simply license the WMA-format from Microsoft. Add support for it in iTunes and on the iPod. This could mean that people buying music through Napster would use iTunes as their jukebox of choice (and iPod as their player of choice).

Although this would mean an added choice to the consumer, right now, it would also strengthen Microsofts proprietary WMA filetype. That isn’t good, in the long run, for anyone.

If Apple instead chooses to licence AAC/FairPlay, they'd be even better off.

Someone mentioned that Apple should licence it to Real, and I agree. They should. What better ways to leverage iPod sales, than to have two competing music stores support the player?

What could, however, put a dent in Apple's digital music armour, is if they did the "right thing", and started licensing FairPlay to not only music vendors, but music players.
This could mean a slight reduction in iPod sales, on the whole, but would, in the end, be better for the market.

If, however, Apple were to eat the cake and keep it too, by adding support for WMA on the iPod and in iTunes while wanting to licence AAC to other companies – well, there wouldn’t be much of a reason for vendors to pick AAC over WMA, would there? And we’d be back on issue #1 again… (MS strengthening their proprietary format).

And, as I said, it would be in Apples best iPod-selling interest to licence FairPlay out to other music-vendors, but not to other music players. Even if the market at large, and the AAC standard, would be better off with FairPlay open to most any company that wanted it.

Is this a Microsoft-ish scheme? Why, yes. Yes, it is... But all is fair in love of Mac and war on Windows. Or something.

Then again, one *could* put confidence in the iPod selling on its own, and thus licence AAC even to other music vendors, just because it's better for the consumer.
 
iTunes for Windows....a percentage of sales from said site?

I think Apppe will allow MS to get a percentage of sales from iTunes downloads from Windows computers, in return for Windows not launching it's own music service, thus protecting the iPod which will still remain AAC and other music services will be stuck with half-assed MP3 player knock-offs.

I am not saying this is perfect, but Apple will continue to make money of of the iTunes store, and re-inforce the superiority of the iPod.....
 
Relax - Jobs won't get screwed

Forget about the MS/Apple "negotiations" of the 80's and 90's. Jobs is as much a shark as anybody in Redmond. Apple will be fine in this one...
 
Slow down

Keep in mind, the music industry is driving this. And I believe if Apple didn't know working this out was in their best interest, they wouldn't be doing it.

MS is building a good infrastructure for a whole lot of OEM devices. Despite Apple's early lead in online content, I think transferrable DRM is in their best interest.

Apple's iTunes+Ipod requires the market lock themselves into one Vendor, Apple. (even the HPod is Apple's with pricing restrictions.)

Microsoft's solution creates choice (with MS selling software). Flame away, that's the reality. Apple needs to play well with others here. I think it's a good thing.
 
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