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I had a client that went with Open Office and didn't miss Excel at all...

Excel, Word, and PowerPoint are bloated behemoths that thunder with their weight and feature list. They are like the guy who came up with a nuclear powered can opener. Um, the vast majority of people just want to open one or two cans and don't really need that much bloat, or user abusive overhead.

There are so many 'features' and 'capabilities' in Word that probably less than 10% of its users would ever need them, or be able to figure out how to use them...

I again take issue with pulling arbitrary statistics out of thin air, but putting that to the side, sure, there are many people who use Excel and don't need it. I personally don't love using Microsoft products anymore for the reason you cited, but I also know lots of professionals who are paid hundreds of thousands a year for their technical prowess. And to do their jobs, they do need those "bloated" features you referred to.

Would it be great if there were a clever way to satisfy all user bases? Sure. But most of the time when software makers try to add a "Simple" mode, it flops.
 
The same problem can come about if two people are using different versions of Word, which these days is virtually guaranteed. Compatibility is basically a myth.

Again, if you are even remotely concerned about how your work product will look when someone else views it, then this is why God created PDF. Nobody gets a word processing document from me unless they request it, and need it for a legitimate reason.

PDFs are generally fine. I use them all the time, but just a couple of times, I've had to deal with people using crap like Adobe Acrobat to view PDFs, and somehow, they can't open some things properly. Sigh...
 
Microsoft are right the iPad doesn't do productivity well. They have realised you need a light product but with a keyboard and trackpad. Hang on I think I recall someone else made one of those.... ahh yes here a picture

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Would it be great if there were a clever way to satisfy all user bases? Sure. But most of the time when software makers try to add a "Simple" mode, it flops.

Just make Excel NOT hog ridiculous amounts of RAM. I stayed with Excel '04 until my Mac dropped support for it since the new versions are the same thing with like 10X the RAM usage. They throw around gigabytes of RAM like it's nothing, but computers with 128KB of RAM have been doing spreadsheets forever.
 
I don't use iWork so I wouldn't know. I just know I hate plenty of Office. Excel is fine but Word, Power Point and SharePoint suck.

Outlook is amazing, I love it, I can't stand Mail and Calendar and never understood why Apple never integrated them into one. Word does it's job well, don't use it in depth enough but it's incredibly powerful if you want, don't really use Share Point, and Power Point and Excel and very very powerful and good at their jobs.
Office is like Photoshop, you can take a course to get the most out of very powerful programmes if you want. But they are easy enough for the majority to use the basics, well maybe not Photoshop.

What? It's basically Debian with all the non-essential guff taken out of it, running on PC hardware. They're not building the entire thing from scratch, just tailoring the experience, and beta testing the hell out of it.

Course it's not guaranteed to be a success. For all we know, it could be doomed to failure from day one. But they've got the right pieces in the right places to possibly make something interesting happen, though what exactly remains to be seen.

Yes but to proclaim it is going to impact Microsoft is daft, even if it's a success the sales numbers will be but a tiny tiny spec on Microsofts sales.
 
Yeah, most people don't actually need Office. It's a tool for people who do professional work. Most people can make due with a smaller, simpler, suite. Microsoft needs to make sure they cater to the real Office users ... corporations.


I'm not a "need" user. I bought Word 100 years ago when it was a standalone program. Never learned to use it to it's potential. Still can't believe I paid $300 then for a word processor. Rookie mistake.

Apple's word processor has always been adequate for my needs. In the Apple store I often see a prospective Mac buyer factoring in the cost of Office in Mac price. Hurts my feelings.

Apple made a smart move tossing in iWork with new purchases.
Corporations are the market for Office. No danger there from Apple.
 
I feel like you didn't read what I typed. Let me try once more.

1) You are falsely blaming the tools for bad products. The real problem is poor users who have no idea how to put together a presentation. I've seen—and assembled—excellent PowerPoint presentations. I've also seen horrible Keynote presentations.

2) You confuse complexity where it is necessary with complexity for the sake of complexity. All things being equal, simpler is better, but sometimes, complex solutions are unavoidable. If reducing dimensionality decreases accuracy, for example, the user themselves has to decide whether that tradeoff is worthwhile given the use cases and the audience. There is no one-size-fits-all rule.

Poor tools almost invariably create poor products. Sure, good tools can be abused too, but not as readily or reliably as poor tools.

No confusion. A product like Word is complex for the sake of it because Microsoft has made a deliberate connection between quantity of features and productivity. This relationship is inherently false, particularly when the vast majority of users don't have any use for a great many of the features that are crammed into Word, and because the basic features have parity instead of priority over the more obscure features.
 
I'm not a "need" user. I bought Word 100 years ago when it was a standalone program. Never learned to use it to it's potential. Still can't believe I paid $300 then for a word processor. Rookie mistake.

Apple's word processor has always been adequate for my needs. In the Apple store I often see a prospective Mac buyer factoring in the cost of Office in Mac price. Hurts my feelings.

Apple made a smart move tossing in iWork with new purchases.
Corporations are the market for Office. No danger there from Apple.

We're actually in agreement for most users. Then again, that person who is factoring in Office in the price could be using it as a work computer. I mean ... even some people at Microsoft use Macs.
 
Microsoft are right the iPad doesn't do productivity well. They have realised you need a light product but with a keyboard and trackpad. Hang on I think I recall someone else made one of those.... ahh yes here a picture

Image

EXACTLY!!! What the Surface (and it's bastard brother) would wish they could be if the committee that dreamed them up had their heads out of their rear ends...

I've got a smashing idea!!! If Microsoft's stock drops too low, perhaps Apple should buy Microsoft! (I mean, if it would fly through the hoops of the people that decide these kind of things). I'd bet that it would pass muster... I'll bet there would be enough laughter from the government that you could hear it anywhere in DC and the metro area.

They would be wonder what the heck Apple would want to buy Microsoft for. There isn't enough there to make the price for buying it really worth it (now)... Otherwise Oracle would have bought them out by now... The price would be higher without Balmer...:eek::D:D:D:D
 
As per the old yarn, only a poor craftsman blames his tools. Yeah, it's true that Word is more complicated than Pages, but it's not necessarily overly complex in and of itself. Like the Ribbon? Took me no time at all to learn, and my only complaint was that some settings and options were grouped a little too far apart.

Pages is set up to design beautiful looking documents quickly and easily, but is ultimately limited in what it can do. There's only so much variety available to it. Word gives you more options, more ways to do something interesting. This is it's one biggest upside in comparison. The downside is it's not quite as streamlined and immediately accessible.

Much like anything, it all depends on what you want. If you want quick, easy, and nice, you go with Pages. If you want flexibility, you get Word.

I have been using Pages for everything since version 1.0 and have never bumped up against any limitations, so I have to wonder where you have found them. Just because it is easier to learn doesn't mean it lacks depth. This it seems to me is a basic fallacy at work.
 
While I do own an iPad and do not own a Surface, I do like that Microsoft treats tablets as a smaller version of my computer as opposed to the way Apple treats tablets as a larger version of my phone.
 
EXACTLY!!! What the Surface (and it's bastard brother) would wish they could be if the committee that dreamed them up had their heads out of their rear ends...

I've got a smashing idea!!! If Microsoft's stock drops too low, perhaps Apple should buy Microsoft! (I mean, if it would fly through the hoops of the people that decide these kind of things). I'd bet that it would pass muster... I'll bet there would be enough laughter from the government that you could hear it anywhere in DC and the metro area.

They would be wonder what the heck Apple would want to buy Microsoft for. There isn't enough there to make the price for buying it really worth it (now)... Otherwise Oracle would have bought them out by now... The price would be higher without Balmer...:eek::D:D:D:D

I really hope you do mean that jokingly.
 
Yes but to proclaim it is going to impact Microsoft is daft, even if it's a success the sales numbers will be but a tiny tiny spec on Microsofts sales.

It does have a good chance of impacting Windows gaming. MS has been doing a decent job of screwing things up there themselves. With Windows 8.1 making everyone mad (sometimes unnecessarily so), GFWL being...just...terrible, and them trying to push everyone over to the Xbox, they created a situation where a competitor can come in and put a dent in their market.

Steam pretty much is the face of PC gaming these days, with Windows being nothing more than the platform its hosted on. If Valve can manage to move their 40 million+ accounts over to SteamOS/Linux, it will sting MS a good bit.

...which is, of course, easier said than done. But like I said, they're in a good position.
 
If anything the reality distortion is up in Redmond. Their PC monopoly is becoming irrelevant. The next is their Office Suite monopoly.

More and more office apps like word processing, spreadsheets, project planning and slideshows are approaching open formats to operate on the web and on mobile devices. Some portals are rejecting their updated formats instructing the user to export to an open format.

When they start shipping their Surface tablets without SecureBoot so third party OS installs run without a hardware modification, I'll consider them.
Yet the % of folks using the alternatives is shrinking. Your supposition and reality, sadly, do not match.

Forget where I read the story - Ars, /., here, etc... It was within the last two days.
 
It does have a good chance of impacting Windows gaming. MS has been doing a decent job of screwing things up there themselves. With Windows 8.1 making everyone mad (sometimes unnecessarily so), GFWL being...just...terrible, and them trying to push everyone over to the Xbox, they created a situation where a competitor can come in and put a dent in their market.

Steam pretty much is the face of PC gaming these days, with Windows being nothing more than the platform its hosted on. If Valve can manage to move their 40 million+ accounts over to SteamOS/Linux, it will sting MS a good bit.

...which is, of course, easier said than done. But like I said, they're in a good position.

Microsoft doesn't make any money from Windows gaming. And it isn't like having the SteamOS will mystically make all the game devs port their games to Linux anyway. The solution?

Stream them from your Windows computer.

No, really, that's their solution.
 
Actually, it is. You said, and I quote, "I'd be surprised if more than one out of a hundred people who use Excel actually need it." You preceded it with, "Excel may be indispensable for spreadsheet jocks, but I personally don't know a single one of them."

You committed a basic logical fallacy of applying anecdotal information to the broad population without any sort of proper sampling. Declaring that only 1% of Excel users actually need it is a statement you have neither the evidence nor the qualifications to make.

Which you incorrectly interpreted as nobody. One out of hundred is not nobody, it is one out of a hundred. Not anecdotally, but based on years of observation.
 
Microsoft has done a wonderful job at making "regular" people think they need something as sophisticated as MS Office. Even in a professional office setting I meet very few people who actually need all the features Office provides. The majority of average consumers would be better off with something like iWork or one of the many similar but easier to use app suites.

MS Office has it's place... Just as grandma, little Timmy, the mom down the street and the 5th grade teacher doesn't need the full $1500 Adobe Creative Suite, most will not need 1/10th of the features of MS Office... yet they spend hundreds on MS licenses (either directly or rolled in to the price of their computer).

That's marketing skill that Apple would be jealous of, lol.
 
I've got a smashing idea!!! If Microsoft's stock drops too low, perhaps Apple should buy Microsoft!

Actually, it would be historically funny if as Microsoft is about to go bankrupt, Apple pays Microsoft $150 million, and promises to port all it's iWork products to Windows devices.

:D
 
Yet the % of folks using the alternatives is shrinking. Your supposition and reality, sadly, do not match.

Forget where I read the story - Ars, /., here, etc... It was within the last two days.

I know there's a study saying companies are using alternatives less, dunno about average users.
 
Microsoft still don't seem to get it. People do not want a refrigeroaster. If they want desktop operation on their lap Apple have that, and if they want an übercool tablet with state of the art software then they can choose that.
 
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