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Highly disagree. I think MS did an excellent job straddling the 2 input methods.

Than your standards must be really low.
[doublepost=1494492476][/doublepost]
Yes, it is. Because Microsoft announced a new, fresh and interesting product. No news on the Apple front, though (apart from Apple reaching a new record market cap despite doing nothing new to please its consumers).
[doublepost=1494326973][/doublepost]

Microsoft has done a lot of right things in the last decade.

Windows 7 was one of them, but so was Windows 10.

And then there was Office 2007, 2010, 2013 and 2016. And their Mac counterparts.

And the Surface line. It got a little bit of time to make it good, but the Surface 4 Pro and the Surface Book are nice products.

And then you have XBOX One.

Microsoft had done a lot right in the last decade.

Windows 7 was great

Windows 10 sucks, there is nothing great about it.

Office is just office.

Surface is not a success, it's a massive failure.

XBox one? The console that clearly lost the console war? The console which Microsoft wanted to be always online and would block 2nd hand games that only did not happen after fans got mad?
 
Than your standards must be really low.
[doublepost=1494492476][/doublepost]

Windows 7 was great

Windows 10 sucks, there is nothing great about it.

Office is just office.

Surface is not a success, it's a massive failure.

XBox one? The console that clearly lost the console war? The console which Microsoft wanted to be always online and would block 2nd hand games that only did not happen after fans got mad?

Windows 7 may be great or not, but it was widely considered to be much superior to Windows Vista.

I do not see how Windows 10 sucks. I think Windows 10 is fine, if not great. It has problems, of course, but so does every operating system, including macOS or Linux. I can perfectly use Windows 10 as my main OS.

Office may be just office, but it is still the major and most fully-featured office suite in the world. Microsoft keeps improving it, and nobody else comes near to offering software that is so good. Google Drive, Apple iWork, LibreOffice are all office suites that fall short, for one reason or the other. They may advertise themselves as cheaper, simpler, more convenient, more open or less bloated than Microsoft Office, but the truth is that none of them is the real thing. Nobody offers as many features as Office, although they sometimes try to advertise this lack of features as a competitive advantage. Clever move, but Office is still the most popular one by far.

Surface is not a major product, but it has been successful and innovative. Surface RT was a disaster, and lost a lot of money. But the newer lines are successful. Not cash cows, but at least matching or beating expectations.

XBOX One sold less units than PS4, but has rebounded in the last year and sales have increased. It is mostly a failure, but Microsoft is still a player in this area.
 
Windows 7 was great

Windows 10 sucks, there is nothing great about it.

Office is just office.

Surface is not a success, it's a massive failure.

I have around 75,000 PC's to look after and Windows 10 does everything better than Windows 7. I can't think of a single thing that has me pining for Windows 7, be that with the OS itself or the administrative management tools associated with it. You can do so much more with Windows 10.

Surface has been a huge success as it's inspired every vendor to make better PC's. Surface acts as a 'benchmark' of design. Surface products are never meant to compete with the sales of say Lenovo, Dell or HP. It's still a billion dollar business and the only reason sales have slowed the last 6 months is because Microsoft haven't refreshed their products for 12-18 months - the same issues Apple had with the Mac.

I suggest you do a little more research to improve your knowledge instead of posting throwaway comments that quite frankly mean nothing.
 
Than your standards must be really low.
[doublepost=1494492476][/doublepost]

Windows 7 was great

Windows 10 sucks, there is nothing great about it.

Office is just office.

Surface is not a success, it's a massive failure.

XBox one? The console that clearly lost the console war? The console which Microsoft wanted to be always online and would block 2nd hand games that only did not happen after fans got mad?

My standards are quite high, thanks. Windows 10 is quite usable, especially with the last 2 major updates, with a touch screen. I give them a ton of credit for letting users have just one OS, instead of having to straddle everything between multiple OS'. Anyhoo I see you are another "...hur dur Windoze suxors..." dude who just likes to rant and rave about how bad Windows is.
 
Dude calm your *.
If Google can make a premium Chromebook to drive other manufacturers to make cheaper Chromebooks, why can't Microsoft does the same?

And afterall you can still upgrade to Windows 10 Pro for FREE any time in a one year period. How's that? Imho, this thing flat beats out the Macbook Air with 720p screen with more or less the same battery life as this new Surface.
[doublepost=1493767779][/doublepost]
Says the guy who can't spell rational properly.

sorry for my mistake... English is not my natural language.
 
My standards are quite high, thanks. Windows 10 is quite usable, especially with the last 2 major updates, with a touch screen. I give them a ton of credit for letting users have just one OS, instead of having to straddle everything between multiple OS'. Anyhoo I see you are another "...hur dur Windoze suxors..." dude who just likes to rant and rave about how bad Windows is.

You give them tone of credit for what? Ruining their desktop OS because they are trying to shoehorn in a touch interface on a OS that was designed for Mice input decades ago?

I see you are another "hur hur Windows 10 is see best, I love that I can have 1 OS that gives me a ****** touch experience and a ruined desktop experience. Yay".
[doublepost=1494763882][/doublepost]
Windows 7 may be great or not, but it was widely considered to be much superior to Windows Vista.

I do not see how Windows 10 sucks. I think Windows 10 is fine, if not great. It has problems, of course, but so does every operating system, including macOS or Linux. I can perfectly use Windows 10 as my main OS.

Office may be just office, but it is still the major and most fully-featured office suite in the world. Microsoft keeps improving it, and nobody else comes near to offering software that is so good. Google Drive, Apple iWork, LibreOffice are all office suites that fall short, for one reason or the other. They may advertise themselves as cheaper, simpler, more convenient, more open or less bloated than Microsoft Office, but the truth is that none of them is the real thing. Nobody offers as many features as Office, although they sometimes try to advertise this lack of features as a competitive advantage. Clever move, but Office is still the most popular one by far.

Surface is not a major product, but it has been successful and innovative. Surface RT was a disaster, and lost a lot of money. But the newer lines are successful. Not cash cows, but at least matching or beating expectations.

XBOX One sold less units than PS4, but has rebounded in the last year and sales have increased. It is mostly a failure, but Microsoft is still a player in this area.

1) Windows 10 does suck compared to Windows 7, its not even close. I guess nobody mentions Windows 8 because that OS was so bad that Microsoft decided to skip 1 version numbering and go straight to 10. Did I mentioned ads. Who doesn't love ads in a OS they pay for. Nothing like going to Explorer and seeing a OneDrive ad.

2) Thats what I mean about Office. Its great and the best office suit but it still just Office, nothing to brag about. Has been around for decades.

3) Explain to me how the Surface is successful? By what Metric? Sales? User experience?

The only thing that I consider a success is that the surface raised the bar for OEMs to step up their game, finally. Is that good or does that tell you that the OEMs suck and are lazy?.

4) So is it a failure or is Microsoft a player in the field? My response was purely to a person saying that xBox was one of the things Microsoft got right.

Well nope they did not get it right or it would have won the console race. Im sure the initial policies that Microsoft tried to introduce did not help. If those policies did not show you that Microsoft is clueless that I do not know what is. They got such a bad response that they were forced to ditch all those policies (always online, 2nd hand sales etc). It was embarrassing
[doublepost=1494765458][/doublepost]
I have around 75,000 PC's to look after and Windows 10 does everything better than Windows 7. I can't think of a single thing that has me pining for Windows 7, be that with the OS itself or the administrative management tools associated with it. You can do so much more with Windows 10.

Surface has been a huge success as it's inspired every vendor to make better PC's. Surface acts as a 'benchmark' of design. Surface products are never meant to compete with the sales of say Lenovo, Dell or HP. It's still a billion dollar business and the only reason sales have slowed the last 6 months is because Microsoft haven't refreshed their products for 12-18 months - the same issues Apple had with the Mac.

I suggest you do a little more research to improve your knowledge instead of posting throwaway comments that quite frankly mean nothing.

Do what research?

I only need to use Windows 10 for 10 minutes to realise it sucks. The App Store sucks, the UI sucks, Metro or whatever they call it now sucks. Did I mentioned ads? Who doesn't love ads in a OS thats codes 100$+.

Maybe you should do some more research because you might be the only one that ever told me that Windows 10 is better than 7. Even die hard Microsoft fans tell you that Windows 10 sucks and 7 was the pinnacle OS that came from Redmond.

What are you gonna tell me next? That you liked Windows 8?
 
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You give them tone of credit for what? Ruining their desktop OS because they are trying to shoehorn in a touch interface on a OS that was designed for Mice input decades ago?

I see you are another "hur hur Windows 10 is see best, I love that I can have 1 OS that gives me a ****** touch experience and a ruined desktop experience. Yay".
[doublepost=1494763882][/doublepost]

1) Windows 10 does suck compared to Windows 7, its not even close. I guess nobody mentions Windows 8 because that OS was so bad that Microsoft decided to skip 1 version numbering and go straight to 10. Did I mentioned ads. Who doesn't love ads in a OS they pay for. Nothing like going to Explorer and seeing a OneDrive ad.

2) Thats what I mean about Office. Its great and the best office suit but it still just Office, nothing to brag about. Has been around for decades.

3) Explain to me how the Surface is successful? By what Metric? Sales? User experience?

The only thing that I consider a success is that the surface raised the bar for OEMs to step up their game, finally. Is that good or does that tell you that the OEMs suck and are lazy?.

4) So is it a failure or is Microsoft a player in the field? My response was purely to a person saying that xBox was one of the things Microsoft got right.

Well nope they did not get it right or it would have won the console race. Im sure the initial policies that Microsoft tried to introduce did not help. If those policies did not show you that Microsoft is clueless that I do not know what is. They got such a bad response that they were forced to ditch all those policies (always online, 2nd hand sales etc). It was embarrassing
[doublepost=1494765458][/doublepost]

Do what research?

I only need to use Windows 10 for 10 minutes to realise it sucks. The App Store sucks, the UI sucks, Metro or whatever they call it now sucks. Did I mentioned ads? Who doesn't love ads in a OS thats codes 100$+.

Maybe you should do some more research because you might be the only one that ever told me that Windows 10 is better than 7. Even die hard Microsoft fans tell you that Windows 10 sucks and 7 was the pinnacle OS that came from Redmond.

What are you gonna tell me next? That you liked Windows 8?

So you've used Windows 10 for the whole 10 minutes and based on that you've drawn your conclusions and generalizations? To me it looks like you're trolling, but I'll bite.

I've been working on Windows-based software development for over 15 years now and I'd hate to go back to Windows 7. Needing a separate program to mount an .iso from MSDN? Yuck. Having to deal with the old clunky command prompt and its borked copy/paste? No thanks. Not having quick access to both elevated and regular cmd and powershell to the open folder (I know about the shift trick, but it's not as elegant especially when elevation is concerned). How about no? Going back to poor multiple monitor support? No way.

In fact, if I were forced to downgrade from Windows 10, I'd go to 8.1 instead of 7. I don't care about the Metro stuff, but there are genuine improvements in the traditional desktop side since Windows 7.
 
You give them tone of credit for what? Ruining their desktop OS because they are trying to shoehorn in a touch interface on a OS that was designed for Mice input decades ago?

I see you are another "hur hur Windows 10 is see best, I love that I can have 1 OS that gives me a ****** touch experience and a ruined desktop experience. Yay".
[doublepost=1494763882][/doublepost]

1) Windows 10 does suck compared to Windows 7, its not even close. I guess nobody mentions Windows 8 because that OS was so bad that Microsoft decided to skip 1 version numbering and go straight to 10. Did I mentioned ads. Who doesn't love ads in a OS they pay for. Nothing like going to Explorer and seeing a OneDrive ad.

2) Thats what I mean about Office. Its great and the best office suit but it still just Office, nothing to brag about. Has been around for decades.

3) Explain to me how the Surface is successful? By what Metric? Sales? User experience?

The only thing that I consider a success is that the surface raised the bar for OEMs to step up their game, finally. Is that good or does that tell you that the OEMs suck and are lazy?.

4) So is it a failure or is Microsoft a player in the field? My response was purely to a person saying that xBox was one of the things Microsoft got right.

Well nope they did not get it right or it would have won the console race. Im sure the initial policies that Microsoft tried to introduce did not help. If those policies did not show you that Microsoft is clueless that I do not know what is. They got such a bad response that they were forced to ditch all those policies (always online, 2nd hand sales etc). It was embarrassing
[doublepost=1494765458][/doublepost]

Do what research?

I only need to use Windows 10 for 10 minutes to realise it sucks. The App Store sucks, the UI sucks, Metro or whatever they call it now sucks. Did I mentioned ads? Who doesn't love ads in a OS thats codes 100$+.

Maybe you should do some more research because you might be the only one that ever told me that Windows 10 is better than 7. Even die hard Microsoft fans tell you that Windows 10 sucks and 7 was the pinnacle OS that came from Redmond.

What are you gonna tell me next? That you liked Windows 8?

They didn't ruin it, they made it awesome. Windows 10 continues to impress me more each day. Microsoft keeps announcing very useful functions, like Timeline which I was reading about today. I realize this is personal opinion (same as your opinions), but I really love breezing through Windows 10 on a touchscreen but at the same time find it works perfectly with a mouse setup on my desktop, or better yet combining the two in certain situations.
 
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Yep. I love how you need to have your free hand hold the screen in place while touching or drawing on it. Such a stupid user experience. I can't believe MS keeps pushing touch on laptops.
Nonsense. What about the ipad Pro with keyboard? Same exact experience.
[doublepost=1494823849][/doublepost]
What's wrong with touchscreen's when the keyboards are detachable? Half the time I see people using iPad Pro's they're using a keyboard case with it and no one moans about that.

Edit: ok so it's not even detachable. Wasn't that the point of the Surface Book line?
I use MS RD on my iPad Pro with Apple Pencil to connect widows vp I tablet mode -pretty awesome hiestly
 
If I'm paying $1000 for a computer it better last at least 5 years. Come back and tell me how well that 4GB ram is running after 3 or 4 years. Also, 128GB storage and limiting apps to their App Store do not beat the new MacBook Pro so no this doesn't win in all aspects. As always both have advantages and disadvantages and it's up the the consumer to decide what is best for their needs.

But it's ok for people to buy a new iPhone every year right?

PS every pc laptop I've bought I had added more ram and bigger hd.its upgradable unlike the Macs.

If you're going to keep it long term get the i7 model with 8 gb and 3 years from now add another 8gb

This is ddr4 and latest Intel chips here not last gen i7s that apple is selling
 
You give them tone of credit for what? Ruining their desktop OS because they are trying to shoehorn in a touch interface on a OS that was designed for Mice input decades ago?

I see you are another "hur hur Windows 10 is see best, I love that I can have 1 OS that gives me a ****** touch experience and a ruined desktop experience. Yay".
[doublepost=1494763882][/doublepost]

1) Windows 10 does suck compared to Windows 7, its not even close. I guess nobody mentions Windows 8 because that OS was so bad that Microsoft decided to skip 1 version numbering and go straight to 10. Did I mentioned ads. Who doesn't love ads in a OS they pay for. Nothing like going to Explorer and seeing a OneDrive ad.

2) Thats what I mean about Office. Its great and the best office suit but it still just Office, nothing to brag about. Has been around for decades.

3) Explain to me how the Surface is successful? By what Metric? Sales? User experience?

The only thing that I consider a success is that the surface raised the bar for OEMs to step up their game, finally. Is that good or does that tell you that the OEMs suck and are lazy?.

4) So is it a failure or is Microsoft a player in the field? My response was purely to a person saying that xBox was one of the things Microsoft got right.

Well nope they did not get it right or it would have won the console race. Im sure the initial policies that Microsoft tried to introduce did not help. If those policies did not show you that Microsoft is clueless that I do not know what is. They got such a bad response that they were forced to ditch all those policies (always online, 2nd hand sales etc). It was embarrassing
[doublepost=1494765458][/doublepost]

Do what research?

I only need to use Windows 10 for 10 minutes to realise it sucks. The App Store sucks, the UI sucks, Metro or whatever they call it now sucks. Did I mentioned ads? Who doesn't love ads in a OS thats codes 100$+.

Maybe you should do some more research because you might be the only one that ever told me that Windows 10 is better than 7. Even die hard Microsoft fans tell you that Windows 10 sucks and 7 was the pinnacle OS that came from Redmond.

What are you gonna tell me next? That you liked Windows 8?

Your post is inaccurate and you couldn't be more wrong. So you don't like the UI? Ok, everyone else seems to be able to use it without an issue. Maybe you needed training?

And I am not a 'fan', I am a professional user and obviously have far more experience than you. I've not read this much nonsense for a long time.
 
3) Explain to me how the Surface is successful? By what Metric? Sales? User experience?
Microsoft's Surface Studio Is A Big Success As Of Fourth Quarter This Year
Why Microsoft Surface Sales Are Soaring on MacBook Pro ‘Disappointment’
Microsoft Surface's Route To Success From Failure

I only need to use Windows 10 for 10 minutes to realise it sucks.
Given your posts, it seems your evaluation of windows 10 was with your mind already made up, and only giving 10 minutes illustrates the lack of thoroughness to fully review an operating system's pros and cons. For a Mac user, used to OS X, windows 10 differences certainly can confuse someone if they only gave a cursorily review. While Windows 10 is not perfect (neither is OS X), I'm impressed with the features, performance and stability.
 
Nonsense. What about the ipad Pro with keyboard? Same exact experience.
[doublepost=1494823849][/doublepost]
I use MS RD on my iPad Pro with Apple Pencil to connect widows vp I tablet mode -pretty awesome hiestly

The whole "have to hold the screen while you touch it" is complete BS. Those who post it are either 1) outright lying just to troll and/or 2) haven't actually physically used this laptop (and most others IMO). The top hinge is pretty sturdy and won't swing back with light to medium pressure. Having the laptop on a desk or even your lap won't swing the lid back or overbalance the laptop with light to medium touch. Now writing with a pen is somewhat different, I find that on a desk I can write decently but not great without supporting the back screen, on a lap yes I have to support the back screen.

But that last bit is kind of obvious, no? I mean would you say "you have to support a yellow notepad with your hand to write on it" ? Duh? Well of course you need support. Don't you have to support your MacBook when writing on it? Oh wait...yeah that's right... Well I'd much rather have the option of being able to occasionally write on my laptop, than not having the option at all.

I still find it amusing that NOT having the choice could be a superior choice, especially when there is no benefit to not having it such as weight, thickness, cost or battery life.
 
You give them tone of credit for what? Ruining their desktop OS because they are trying to shoehorn in a touch interface on a OS that was designed for Mice input decades ago?

I see you are another "hur hur Windows 10 is see best, I love that I can have 1 OS that gives me a ****** touch experience and a ruined desktop experience. Yay".
[doublepost=1494763882][/doublepost]

You could say Windows 8 was weird because of that, but Windows 10 got things right. You can use it with a mouse without even noticing that it also supports touch. It is definitely not a ruined desktop experience.

1) Windows 10 does suck compared to Windows 7, its not even close. I guess nobody mentions Windows 8 because that OS was so bad that Microsoft decided to skip 1 version numbering and go straight to 10. Did I mentioned ads. Who doesn't love ads in a OS they pay for. Nothing like going to Explorer and seeing a OneDrive ad.

2) Thats what I mean about Office. Its great and the best office suit but it still just Office, nothing to brag about. Has been around for decades.

I would not call it "just Office". It is a complete suite of productive software packed of features, with a good interface, and which runs fast. Millions of people use it every day. People tend to take Office for granted, and forget what it really is. I am yet to find another piece of software with so many features and which still runs smoothly. It is definitely something to brag about.

3) Explain to me how the Surface is successful? By what Metric? Sales? User experience?

The only thing that I consider a success is that the surface raised the bar for OEMs to step up their game, finally. Is that good or does that tell you that the OEMs suck and are lazy?.

It is a success. The Surface line was never intended to sell tens of millions of devices. Premium Windows hardware is a hard sell. People only accept paying a premium for a Mac because there is no other option if they want to have a Mac. And still, the MacBook Air is still a very popular choice despite being outdated, as it is the cheapest option. Most people will avoid paying over USD 1,000 on a laptop when they can have something for less than half of it.

4) So is it a failure or is Microsoft a player in the field? My response was purely to a person saying that xBox was one of the things Microsoft got right.

Well nope they did not get it right or it would have won the console race. Im sure the initial policies that Microsoft tried to introduce did not help. If those policies did not show you that Microsoft is clueless that I do not know what is. They got such a bad response that they were forced to ditch all those policies (always online, 2nd hand sales etc). It was embarrassing
[doublepost=1494765458][/doublepost]

Win the console race? Well, this is a pretty much weird concept. A company does not have to win the console race to make it successful. In the early 90s, both Sega and Nintendo were successful with their 16-bit consoles. Nintendo 64 sold well despite the fact that the Playstation won the "console race" of its generation. The Wii, the XBOX 360 and the Playstation 3 were all successful in the same generation.

The XBOX One sold around 30 million units so far. Despite a slow start, it is Not a huge success, but it still makes money.

Do what research?

I only need to use Windows 10 for 10 minutes to realise it sucks. The App Store sucks, the UI sucks, Metro or whatever they call it now sucks. Did I mentioned ads? Who doesn't love ads in a OS thats codes 100$+.

Maybe you should do some more research because you might be the only one that ever told me that Windows 10 is better than 7. Even die hard Microsoft fans tell you that Windows 10 sucks and 7 was the pinnacle OS that came from Redmond.

What are you gonna tell me next? That you liked Windows 8?

Oh, come on.
 
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Tomorrow is the second Surface event of the month, this time in Shangai. Microsoft is supposed to reveal a new Surface Pro. Any thoughts?
 
Does Windows still need a daily update to keep it "safe" and how does it function after only a few weeks of updates? I got tired of the daily updates and switched to Apple stuff.
 
Does Windows still need a daily update to keep it "safe" and how does it function after only a few weeks of updates? I got tired of the daily updates and switched to Apple stuff.

I have never heard of "daily" updates. Microsoft has for a very long time done a weekly update. The only time I've found it to be a problem was if it happened to want to do it while I was trying to power down and leave ... and was in a hurry... because I needed to wait for it to finish. If you have any number of apps installed in iOS, you get at least as many if not more updates there.
 
MSsurfaceLaptop.jpg
 
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So you've used Windows 10 for the whole 10 minutes and based on that you've drawn your conclusions and generalizations? To me it looks like you're trolling, but I'll bite.

I've been working on Windows-based software development for over 15 years now and I'd hate to go back to Windows 7. Needing a separate program to mount an .iso from MSDN? Yuck. Having to deal with the old clunky command prompt and its borked copy/paste? No thanks. Not having quick access to both elevated and regular cmd and powershell to the open folder (I know about the shift trick, but it's not as elegant especially when elevation is concerned). How about no? Going back to poor multiple monitor support? No way.

In fact, if I were forced to downgrade from Windows 10, I'd go to 8.1 instead of 7. I don't care about the Metro stuff, but there are genuine improvements in the traditional desktop side since Windows 7.
I would never go back to 7 after having used 8(.x) and 10. the improvements to performance, technology, resource utilization and stability were night and day.
 
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Does Windows still need a daily update to keep it "safe" and how does it function after only a few weeks of updates? I got tired of the daily updates and switched to Apple stuff.

Microsoft does regular updates with all non-critical security updates on Tuesday.
Emergency updates to patch day 0 critical issues are immediately released to be patched ASAP.
Feature updates are done on scheduled days.

Really, don't use microsofts frequent updates as a negative when you consider that they do this to ensure that all their users are up to date. The update process is frstrating and slow, But it's needed.

you really don't want to compare this to Apple's methodology, as Apple has a bad history of being very slow to release critical updates because they try and bundle them together with full OS updates, instead of individual as required.
 
Microsoft does regular updates with all non-critical security updates on Tuesday.
Emergency updates to patch day 0 critical issues are immediately released to be patched ASAP.
Feature updates are done on scheduled days.

Really, don't use microsofts frequent updates as a negative when you consider that they do this to ensure that all their users are up to date. The update process is frstrating and slow, But it's needed.

you really don't want to compare this to Apple's methodology, as Apple has a bad history of being very slow to release critical updates because they try and bundle them together with full OS updates, instead of individual as required.


I don't even notice the updates happening anymore as its pretty seamless. This applies to both Windows 10 as well as Office. Every once in a while I've started work on a Monday and had something not behave correctly in Office, and did a reboot and all was good. Frankly, I notice the updates coming in on my Mac more and seems like I very often have that little dialog popping up in the right top corner saying updates are available.

Windows used to be a "wild west" kind of world but that is no longer the case unless you are doing something crazy. It comes with good security built in to the OS, and they are very seamless on updating.
 
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