The only thing Microsoft is killing is their fan base, or what's left.
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Microsoft Debuts $999 Surface Laptop, 'Streamlined' Windows 10 S, and More at Education Event
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The only thing Microsoft is killing is their fan base, or what's left.
So it comes out of the box crippled and starts at $999?
Ahh well nice intro video.
This is there attempt to help goose that ecosystem further.
Window S is geared towards the edu market and having the OS locked down makes sense, secondly MS has like 90% of the marketshare.
On one level I like the idea of Window S, but I ultimately don't think for regular consumers its going to fly precisely because the majority of apps people use are not in the app store.
Based on what metric? Last I saw, their hardware are extremely niche, and not really selling in all that great a quantity.
You should wait for Apple to introduce their Kabylake notebook line up. 2025 shaping up to be a really good year for the Mac.
Sorry for being late to the party but, to be honest, I feel with "educational" devices, there are different tiers based on the comsumers needs.
Not everyone needs a powerful expensive device. Tons of students these days need something affordable and for light tasks like word processing. Others who are going to school for stuff like engineering or 3D modeling need something more powerful and capable than a entry level device.
Its also interesting to note that in my experience, I've never seen a "one size fits all device" regarding performance and battery. My Alienware 13t is one of those models that Dell tried to maker as a half performance half practical device and, its not the best on battery. I'm lucky if I get 2 hours out of it and, it can't play games on the go[battery power] due to some hardware fault I cannot identify {its on high performance everything}.
Back in High school, one of the kids I graduated with needed only a iPad tier device to function. Me, on the other hand required something more powerful and stable to play around with because, i'm a nerd who likes to tweak their device and, do things unorthodox for most users including 3D modeling, Photoshop, and even video editing on a frequent basis. My Alienware is not the best however, I'm lucky to have it and, the specs are ahead of the average student's device.
For example, I could see this laptop working well for a lower performance tier group. It may not fit my needs but hey, its good to have representation.
Not everyone needs a powerful expensive device. Tons of students these days need something affordable and for light tasks like word processing. Others who are going to school for stuff like engineering or 3D modeling need something more powerful and capable than a entry level device.
Its also interesting to note that in my experience, I've never seen a "one size fits all device" regarding performance and battery. My Alienware 13t is one of those models that Dell tried to maker as a half performance half practical device and, its not the best on battery. I'm lucky if I get 2 hours out of it and, it can't play games on the go[battery power] due to some hardware fault I cannot identify {its on high performance everything}.
Back in High school, one of the kids I graduated with needed only a iPad tier device to function. Me, on the other hand required something more powerful and stable to play around with because, i'm a nerd who likes to tweak their device and, do things unorthodox for most users including 3D modeling, Photoshop, and even video editing on a frequent basis. My Alienware is not the best however, I'm lucky to have it and, the specs are ahead of the average student's device.
For example, I could see this laptop working well for a lower performance tier group. It may not fit my needs but hey, its good to have representation.
Look at it on the bright side, there are people shelling out $800 for Android phones that also have 4GB of RAM yet it all leaks out within few days of usage and you get sticky and stuttery device. Usage of stupid lightweight mobile apps which are no where near Win32 stuff.
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Well of course not, for some idiotic reason MS is making the RT mistake again by deploying a product without app support from MS themselves. Was it so hard for them to compile Office and push it into the store? Or any other Win32 app they have since store does indeed accept usual Win32 apps. It doesn't have to be Universal App or however they call it now.
BTW Adobe is making a push toward Universal App in store delivery. Their XD app will be Microsoft Store only. Adobe and MS have tight relationship and I would assume Microsoft would let them have all their apps inside the store or help them with Universal app conversion down the line.
You have that backwards.
MacOS has always done better in RAM-starved conditions that Windows. I use both, and its simply a fact.
I used to think so... but my 2010 MBP runs both Windows 7 and Windows 10 much, much better than it runs OS X.
Though perhaps that's why it burns through the battery in half the time...
Wait. I thought they all had four USB-C ports.
Well, Ok, they do appear to only have two ports on the non-touch 13". But, at least they are both USB-C and Thunderbolt 3, so that is still equivalent to 40 Gbps of raw multifunction I/O which can be expanded to as many as a total of TWENTY-SIX "legacy" ports (https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder...12.1137765536.1493917460-580340355.1476679554), as opposed to ONE measly USB 3 port, and a MiniDP.
So, I'm pretty sure that still counts as a clear "win" for the 13" non-touchbar MBP.
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Well, Apple can (sort of); but it doesn't run the same codebase... Yet.
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And we have to know what applications you are running on each OS.
They have 0 USB-C attachments... yet. That's the point. A MBP with dongles for backward compatibility loses nothing. A Surface with eventual need of dongles for future compatibility chokes off the speed of those future peripherals. Only one of those options represents forward thinking.
Sidenote - i think the MacBook Pro 17" was the zenith of macbooks. I loved and still love that computer. The display is huge, I've upgraded RAM and SSD multiple times to extend its life, and everytime i sit down with that luxurious display it's a pleasure. I'm surprised they quit making 17" MacBook pros, but I guess like other enthusiast options it's become too small a niche for them.
this was many, many years ago - today a touchscreen has basically the same price as a regular screen - Apple should implement a touchscreen it and have a software option to enable it for people who needs it (especially disabled people)
Absolutely everything, including the OS itself. OS X feels slow and clunky on my 2010 MBP, while Windows 7/10 both feel as quick as can be expected.
One example is that in OSX, viewing a single 1080p/60 video in Safari or even Chrome runs poorly. Trying to scrub through can lock it up, or takes several seconds to respond.
Meanwhile, if I use Windows with Chrome, I can play 2-3 1080p/60 videos at the same time, and scrub around them pretty well instantly.
I thought the machine was at the end of its usable life but I've found new life since using Windows and Linux on it. I still use OS X for some things, especially since it runs the iGPU and gets me around 7-8 hours of battery life.
Can I just point out Apple sells a locked down device for £729 in the U.K. Yup. iPad Pro without Keyboard.
This at straight exchange rates is £773 in the U.K. It has a Keyboard.
One will stay locked down the other can be a fully fledged laptop. 4GB RAM is the minimum but it will work. The i5 and SSD will take up the slack.
For reference I had the Surface 3 with 2GB RAM a while back. It was £500 and was workable. 2GB Was not ideal but it was OK.
I am a Mac user, ex windows. You people are not watching the video and jumping to the last page to put your 2p/2c in. Even the older 2015 MBP is £1250 in the U.K. That's almost £500 more. The Air is £949 and has an HD screen.
It's not for me as a Mac user but this has been great reading this over the, what features do you want to see in the next blah blah update? Threads.
Ok scratch that. It's £979 in the U.K. Had a look at the pre order page. I expect massive discount to shift the stock.
This at straight exchange rates is £773 in the U.K. It has a Keyboard.
One will stay locked down the other can be a fully fledged laptop. 4GB RAM is the minimum but it will work. The i5 and SSD will take up the slack.
For reference I had the Surface 3 with 2GB RAM a while back. It was £500 and was workable. 2GB Was not ideal but it was OK.
I am a Mac user, ex windows. You people are not watching the video and jumping to the last page to put your 2p/2c in. Even the older 2015 MBP is £1250 in the U.K. That's almost £500 more. The Air is £949 and has an HD screen.
It's not for me as a Mac user but this has been great reading this over the, what features do you want to see in the next blah blah update? Threads.
Ok scratch that. It's £979 in the U.K. Had a look at the pre order page. I expect massive discount to shift the stock.
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You do realize that once USB-C goes standard that current MBP, MacBook as well as Surface Laptop will be obsolete. They would be in their third generation most likely.
And USB-C will be standard once majority of thumb drives go the C route. Minority Thunderbolt3 peripherals will change nothing. Heck Thunderbolt3 has no use other than portable GPU and portable SSDs and that's 0.0X of peripheral market. And good luck having HP, Epson and others include USB-C cable inside package for their printers, scanners and other office crap.
I haven't plugged in a printer / scanner using a USB cable for years. Ethernet into network, or wifi.
just give it 12 months and it will be nice to see what that fabric looks like on the palm rest and in between the keys... Yuk. Also, it seems that Microsoft have found the After Effects template Apple use for their presentations.
Smart move IMO. Good looking hardware with current gen CPUs, Windows 10S should force devs to get their apps into the store at last and improve the experience for Surface Pro users at the same time. Fabric covering is innovative although I amongst others wonder about its longevity. £2049 for the top of the range is steep, will see what the reviews say.
Been playing around with a Surface at work lately. Bottom line: user experience sucks bad. They've shoehorned a desktop OS into a tablet and it makes for some very awkward UI interactions. Plus, it's just laggy at seemingly random times. And it's big. It feels more like a small laptop instead of a tablet. I'm left wondering why I wouldn't just get a small laptop instead.
To me, the value of a tablet is the stripped down and simplified nature of it. Quick and easy access, no logging in, no fuss, no muss. I'm sure as companies continue exploring the notion of a "full featured" tablet, consumers will warm up to this but to me, having the full desktop OS ruins the experience. It just feels like I'm using a piece of equipment that can't quite keep up with the software it's running.
To me, the value of a tablet is the stripped down and simplified nature of it. Quick and easy access, no logging in, no fuss, no muss. I'm sure as companies continue exploring the notion of a "full featured" tablet, consumers will warm up to this but to me, having the full desktop OS ruins the experience. It just feels like I'm using a piece of equipment that can't quite keep up with the software it's running.
USB-C will definitely become the standard of connectors, and will bring a variety of devices to using the same great connection. It is a superior technology in every way, and one that addresses several major decade-long problems associated with the USB-A/micro/mini connectors and the USB 2.0 and 3.0 (now 3.1.g1) standards. Someone buying a device with USB-C today can certainly benefit from many of its advantages in the immediate.
But, I cannot see USB-A being overtaken by USB-C for at least several years to a half decade (and, consequently, a Buyer probably does not need to worry hugely about compatibility issues with a device purchased today that lacks USB-C, since by the time USB-A components start getting scarce, the service life of most new consumer-level machines will likely have long expired.)
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One could argue that it loses some degree of convenience. How much is certainly debatable, but I've been in situations where it has been frustrating. That's not to say that USB-C is bad, or even that the design choice was wrong. USB-C is awesome, and the new MacBook Pro is great. However, there is unquestionably some loss here, and if presented with USB-C-only, or USB-A only, there is some degree of sacrifice with each option, IMO.
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I was in the MS store yesterday and got to try the laptop in person. It is a VERY nice laptop, not for me as I'm more of a tablet/surface guy, but I could see getting this for my wife. It was very solid and all this talk of it falling over because of the touchscreen is nonsense. I used the touchscreen with a regular touch, enough to register, and scrolling, clicking, pointing, etc didn't cause it to fly backwards and crash on the floor. That might be the case if you were hunched over with it on your lap, but I'd rather steady it with one hand than totally contort my arm/wrist/hand to use the trackpad, but that's just me.
Anyway, I still think MS made some mistakes. It's priced too highly, and I don't agree with the whole concept of Windows S. But still a very nice laptop if you can get it on sale, and load full windows onto it.
I also got to see a surface studio in person, WOW. I'm pretty sure I'm buying one for the office to replace my dual 28" 4k setup as I need something I can slide down to see people across my desk. What a work of art, Apple has NOTHING even close to this. It's so odd to live in 2017 where the roles are so reversed and old beige box Microsoft is actually the creative innovator.
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Interesting, there definitely are 2 sets of consumers. For me I feel the opposite, windows 10 works quite nicely in a touch environment. It gets less and less shoehorned every day and I've been quite impressed with how well it does work on a tablet. I get zero lag on my surface pro and I like the large screen, I'd actually opt for a larger screen if they made one, but again just personal preference.
For me the value of a tablet is being able to do everything on it. Everything might mean I run a simple app, view photos, or watch a movie. Or it might mean connecting it to a larger screen and running photoshop, CAD, or any number of the millions of windows legacy programs. Something like the ipad is missing a whole ton of functionality, but once again just the way I use my devices. To me NOT having a full desktop OS ruins the experience.
Anyway, I still think MS made some mistakes. It's priced too highly, and I don't agree with the whole concept of Windows S. But still a very nice laptop if you can get it on sale, and load full windows onto it.
I also got to see a surface studio in person, WOW. I'm pretty sure I'm buying one for the office to replace my dual 28" 4k setup as I need something I can slide down to see people across my desk. What a work of art, Apple has NOTHING even close to this. It's so odd to live in 2017 where the roles are so reversed and old beige box Microsoft is actually the creative innovator.
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Interesting, there definitely are 2 sets of consumers. For me I feel the opposite, windows 10 works quite nicely in a touch environment. It gets less and less shoehorned every day and I've been quite impressed with how well it does work on a tablet. I get zero lag on my surface pro and I like the large screen, I'd actually opt for a larger screen if they made one, but again just personal preference.
For me the value of a tablet is being able to do everything on it. Everything might mean I run a simple app, view photos, or watch a movie. Or it might mean connecting it to a larger screen and running photoshop, CAD, or any number of the millions of windows legacy programs. Something like the ipad is missing a whole ton of functionality, but once again just the way I use my devices. To me NOT having a full desktop OS ruins the experience.
You don't have to wait for so long. How is the experience of people using the Surface Pro 4 tablet with the fabric keyboard?
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Well, I could not find much date on the sales numbers. But there are some news in the sense that Surface Pro exceeded expectations. The Surface line sold 6 million units in 2015, more than the projections of 4 million: http://pocketnow.com/2016/02/03/microsoft-surface-sales-numbers-q4-2015-whole-year. Numbers were good, especially after Microsoft took a USD 900 million write-off on Surface RT tablet just two years earlier, in 2013.
That is not that much, and other products probably sell less. The Surface Book sold 10x less than the Surface Pro 4, for instance: http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...ore-surface-pro-4s-than-surface-books-1323945.
During the same year (2015), Apple sold 20.5 million Macs, as a comparison. It is more than 3x the number of the Surface line. But things should be put in perspective: Microsoft's line of computers have been here for just a short period of time. In 2015, Microsoft had the Surface Pro 3 and the Surface 3, and had just released the Surface Pro 4 and the Surface Book. Most of Microsoft's offerings were cheaper, but Apple had a full line of computers, including desktops.
In addition, one should notice that Microsoft's Surface line runs Windows, as well as many other offerings from Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, Samsung, Toshiba, Asus, and other manufacturers. So, in addition to Microsoft's Surface line being a niche product (only tablets and an expensive convertible in 2015), there were plenty of cheap laptops, desktops and tablets from competitors, all of them running Windows. However, if you wish to run maOS (or OS X at the time), you have to buy a Mac, and users may be willing to pay a premium for that.
So, Microsoft was successful in meeting and surpassing the expectations. Sales numbers are not high, but I doubt they were supposed to be. Microsoft seems to be slowly building a line of computers, and does not want to rush it. The main business of Microsoft is still software: Windows and Office.
While it has been sold, I was surprised at how well my Surface keyboard held up. I'm still not sold on the fabric covering but at the very least the SP keyboard held up like a champ.
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Like the Nexus, the Surface line pushes manufacturers to design some stunning machines, and it worked, just look at the Surface Pro clones that came out after the SP. MS seems very happy in terms of sales of the Surface line, though they don't break out the sales figures. Its kind of like Apple with the watch saying they're happy with the sales.
[doublepost=1494068425][/doublepost]The more I look at the Surface laptop the more I think MS missed the boat on some designs that could have really made this a great machine.
1. Reversible hinge, most new windows laptops (with touch screen) have this.
2. USB-C. MS promotes this machine that will give the student (or consumer) a solid 4 years of service but USB-C is the future and you cannot have a forward pointing machine with depreciated ports.
3. Display, seems like a lower resolution then the Surface Book, even though its the same form factor.
I have a Surface Book and I think overall my SB offers more and I have little desire or temptation to buy this. It doesn't seem like a bad laptop but I think MS didn't take any chances, like they did with the other Surface line