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Microsoft Debuts Magic Keyboard-Like Surface Laptop Studio and Surface Duo 2 Foldable Smartphone
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These devices look beautiful, but I suppose I will never be able to get rid of the keyboard. I was never able to make full use of a device, other than a smartphone, which does heavily rely on a keyboard, be it an iPad, a Surface, or an Android tablet. The good old clamshell design is still the best one for me, which is the reason I am more interested in traditional laptops (such as the MacBook Pro/Air or the Surface Laptop). But I agree that the 120Hz screen seems to be a great addition.
It's a fair point about my having the SP a few inches back on my lap, if I were to measure it would probably be 3-4 inches estimating on how much I have the kickstand open, that would be in comparison to a Macbook where you wouldn't have a touchscreen or the ability to use a pen.
But if you are comparing it to the magic keyboard, just by physics alone the center of mass is much higher, using the touchscreen or pen would make it much more precarious. By the same token, the way the keyboard lays flat, the way it is attached to the iPad, and as you mention it would be a couple of inches forward would make it more stable when actually typing. Again I personally don't feel the SP is unstable at all when typing as demonstrated in my video, but I can definitely see how the magic keyboard would be more stable primarily when typing. So I'm willing to say it's a 50/50 tie, depending on how you use it. I can definitely see personal preference and use case scenario factoring into both of our decisions.
Probably the same people that are toting around a MacBook Pro and an iPad Pro with keyboard?
I don't mind the designs, I actually quite like them. But the thing that gets me every time with Windows devices is the track pads. They simply are not as elegant as the MacBook and often feel choppy. And for that reason, I'm out.
I don't see any Apple laptops with a 120hz screen or an actual GPU.
And no, the iPad Pro doesn't count as a laptop as Apple continues to kneecap iPadOS.
Surface looks Ok on paper. I bought surface book. It’s crap.
Honestly, it feels like Microsoft it out innovating Apple with the Surface line.
My biggest gripe with the iPad has, and continues to be, the in ability to use regular desktop apps on it. Instead Apple gave us a desktop that runs mobile apps - far less impressive.
Yeah, the bottom portion of the Surface Laptop looks funky, but what is Apples solution to touch input? Oh, buy and iPad AND a Mac, no thanks.
My biggest gripe with the iPad has, and continues to be, the in ability to use regular desktop apps on it. Instead Apple gave us a desktop that runs mobile apps - far less impressive.
Yeah, the bottom portion of the Surface Laptop looks funky, but what is Apples solution to touch input? Oh, buy and iPad AND a Mac, no thanks.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
That is a reasonable assessment of your needs.
For me, the iPad provides the best of both worlds, but that is because I do not need the horsepower of a traditional computer and I prefer the touch input and Pencil ability. Also having the ability to use a keyboard and mouse for the occasional text-driven work is the icing on the cake.
That said, I feel that the Surface Studio laptop doesn't compete with any product that Apple makes, because it is a third (fourth?) category of portable computer: One that is a desktop computer that converts to a tablet for the occasional tablet use.
I think Microsoft filled that user-niche nicely here.
So now in the market we have great choices, even if Apple doesn't play in all the categories (like the desktop-first 2-in-1s that the Surface Studio Laptop exists in).
The root problem for me with the Surface line is support, having owned many, many Surface devices historically and wanting to make them work for me.
The original Duo has had some middling support and Android 11 isn't fully rolled out...and we're heading into Android 12 now. Sure, maybe Microsoft does better at supporting the Duo 2 this go around, the specs are certainly better...or they will for a few months or a year, then it may trail off. If I was willing to roll the dice with Microsoft on the software support side for the Duo 2, I'd at least wait until some holiday sales where these things will invariably be discounted down into a more reasonable price range.
Then we look at the computers. There's a fairly high occurrence of issues out of both the Surface Pro and Surface Book lines. The new Surface Laptop Studio, being a Gen 1 device, is almost certainly going to have some quality issues given the historical track record. That new hinge makes me particularly nervous. That's not to say Apple hasn't had their own "gates", and Microsoft doesn't have many satisfied customers...but they've had a non-trivial number of reliability issues. And now with no Microsoft brick-and-mortar stores, it's playing the phone game, shipping devices back, etc.
Now, having said all of that, at least Microsoft is trying to push the envelope and try new things. May not all work out, but the market can decide that.
The original Duo has had some middling support and Android 11 isn't fully rolled out...and we're heading into Android 12 now. Sure, maybe Microsoft does better at supporting the Duo 2 this go around, the specs are certainly better...or they will for a few months or a year, then it may trail off. If I was willing to roll the dice with Microsoft on the software support side for the Duo 2, I'd at least wait until some holiday sales where these things will invariably be discounted down into a more reasonable price range.
Then we look at the computers. There's a fairly high occurrence of issues out of both the Surface Pro and Surface Book lines. The new Surface Laptop Studio, being a Gen 1 device, is almost certainly going to have some quality issues given the historical track record. That new hinge makes me particularly nervous. That's not to say Apple hasn't had their own "gates", and Microsoft doesn't have many satisfied customers...but they've had a non-trivial number of reliability issues. And now with no Microsoft brick-and-mortar stores, it's playing the phone game, shipping devices back, etc.
Now, having said all of that, at least Microsoft is trying to push the envelope and try new things. May not all work out, but the market can decide that.
Agreed. my old work buddy had one. Geez. problems. slow. and he gave up using the touch and just using the mouse since the OS was not optimized for it. In other words. The Surface is a gimmick.
And they fool the suckers in the tech press just long enough to make it seem Microsoft is 'innovative".
Nonsense and you know it. Apple won’t give the Mini phone functionality because it wants to force people to buy and carry around both an iPad and a phone, and you cheer them on, yes, hobble the Mini on purpose and take our money for zero additional functionality. Yes, we hear you, Apple can do no wrong, got it.
MS sees that a lot of folks, myself included, who have both, don’t want to be forced to carry around two devices, and the Duo design allows us to avoid it. I plan to try either this or one of the LG fold designs and see how it goes before upgrading my generation 5 mini or 12 Pro Max - I’m that customer who buys the most capable of each and would actually happily pay them the combined price of a Mini and 13 to have just one device. Most people won’t go quite that far but it’s not for nothing that LG and others keep selling folding tablets. MS and LG have something for those of us who want a small tablet to both watch a movie in bed and take calls, while Apple declines to provide it. 🤮
Your honor, that was not part of my response.
I ask to dismiss his entire argument.
Granted.
Your honor, the witness never said this.
May I ask for a dismissal?
Granted.
Do you practice law this loosely? Yikes!
So in the case of Duo vs. Sales what is the verdict?
Discontinued in a couple of years when Microsoft is showing off their next shiny object to people in an effort that no one will notice the Duo is Duddo.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I would love a 14.4 iPad Pro, as well as a Magic Keyboard that folded like the Surface Duo Laptop does.
Lol. But seriously, sales shouldn’t be a metric to measure any success of this. Although what other metric is there? The carriers don’t try on this. You’re not seeing any 1000 off offers. Heck Verizon doesn’t even fool with it hardly. The first duo was reduced to firesales.
Which all means this will be a dud no matter the improvements or what a few think. Personally it looks kinda cool. But not for that price. Maybe half price I’d at least have a conversation with myself over it (that I’d probably still lose).
It is nice to see MS taking some risks but it’s still half baked execution most of times and a gem sometimes. Still have my studio 2 (I won’t talk about what I spent on it. I was weak) in office though. I like that big square retina like screen for spreadsheets. Plus annotating using surface pen on big screen that’s easy to fold down makes reviewing staff engagements pretty easy.
What I don’t understand about the Duo is why MS didn’t make the two screens come together with a flat edge display so at least the two screens look more like a single cohesive screen when opened 180 degrees (with a hinge that pushes the two screens closer together).
In the the current state, what it really feels like to me is a small laptop where the keyboard was replaced with a screen. Or maybe it’s a Kindle book with two pages. The idea of holding it book style and trying to interact with two screens at the same time makes zero sense, especially if you’re having to input information using an on-screen keyboard. It seems to be a common theme with MS, where they’re trying to offer “features” simply because they can, not because they’re better or more functional.
In the the current state, what it really feels like to me is a small laptop where the keyboard was replaced with a screen. Or maybe it’s a Kindle book with two pages. The idea of holding it book style and trying to interact with two screens at the same time makes zero sense, especially if you’re having to input information using an on-screen keyboard. It seems to be a common theme with MS, where they’re trying to offer “features” simply because they can, not because they’re better or more functional.
Yes, if it wasn't for the case, my iPhone would be as slippery as a bar of butter.
I wouldn't mind it it was thicker with no camera bump, and Apple used the internal space gained to increase battery capacity.
They had a thicker phone back in the day and I think this thin at all costs thing is a marketing exercise that I must admit has worked very well for them.
I wish Apple would experiment more. I know they don’t have to, and they never have, but it’s getting kinda boring
This is one of the top stories at The Verge right now. Not the coverage Panos Panay was looking for I’m sure. But kind of embarrassing for him to say Microsoft is creating a new laptop category when this design looks exactly like designs already announced by HP and Acer.
www.theverge.com
The Surface Laptop Studio isn’t as original as Microsoft would have you believe
I’m already mourning the detachable screen.
www.theverge.com
Some people should go outside to see what’s going on in the world more often. He’s been too focus on his own concept of a new laptop category that already exists.This is one of the top stories at The Verge right now. Not the coverage Panos Panay was looking for I’m sure. But kind of embarrassing for him to say Microsoft is creating a new laptop category when this design looks exactly like designs already announced by HP and Acer.
The Surface Laptop Studio isn’t as original as Microsoft would have you believe
I’m already mourning the detachable screen.