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Everyone is going to say the other product is in response to the other product.
It's pretty simple, the Surface was a response to the iPad (tablet form), and the iPad Pro was a response to the Surface (Pen input, larger screen size, and keyboard). Let's be honest, Apple would have never released an iPad with pen support and their own first party keyboard if there never was a Surface.
 
totally agree. iPad Pro is great but its still behind. Files was a huge step but its still not there yet. There needs to be a pro that allows full blown macos.
You just can't load up zbrush on an ipad pro yet you have this amazing potential with the pencil etc.

Surface is just better for that thing. iPad is still a toy that relies on developers to port their apps. No app = no fun (see zbrush, still no iOS support)

IMO they need lots of Pro apps that make use of the increasing functions in IOS.

The windows ecosystem has lots of 'pro' apps, IOS ecoystem needs to mature in this area.

I think the problem is a chicken-egg scenario for Apple... Developers have been hesitant to make high end apps for iPad Pro because people don't like to pay $200 'for an app' and the pro market isn't big enough yet to lower the price to say $20 per app. At the same time, to get a higher adoption amoungst demanding users, Apple needs to grow the pro ecosystem.

.
 
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Everyone is going to say the other product is in response to the other product.
It's pretty simple, the Surface was a response to the iPad (tablet form), and the iPad Pro was a response to the Surface (Pen input, larger screen size, and keyboard). Let's be honest, Apple would have never released an iPad with pen support and their own first party keyboard if there never was a Surface.

The original iPad had a first party keyboard.
 
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At this point it doesn't really look like it. Since the iPad Pro doesn't really innovate much. IMO, the fact that it is still bound to iOS really kills it.

What exactly do you class as innovative? People keep throwing that word around but I don't think they know what they mean by it. Just looking at the A9X alone would lead me to say that's incredibly innovative. And if not, I can't see what you'd consider as innovative from Microsoft.

In response to the iPad Pro being bound to iOS, the fact that the Surface Pro is still bound to Windows 10 is what kills it for me. That is a very unpopular opinion as the knee jerk reaction is: "one runs desktop apps, the other iOS apps! It's obvious which one is better. Are you stupid, keys?!". So please allow me to explain:

Windows 10 is an OS consisting of two different UIs and tablet mode is not very well designed. Even if you're not using tablet mode, when you're only using the touchscreen and completely ignored a mouse/keyboard interface, it just simply doesn't touch the iPad as a touchscreen OS. I can't see how anybody would disagree with that. It's not comparable as a touchscreen against the iPad.

Microsoft have put all their eggs in one basket. They don't have the tablet marketshare or developers' passion to really push a move to a mobile-only OS. Many argue that W10 running on touch tablets was a well thought out and a deliberate move, but it absolutely isn't. It was because they couldn't hack the alternative, which was a touch-exclusive version of Windows. They've tried on numerous occasions to do this; with Windows RT and now with Windows 10S, which will also fail as RT did, and as Windows Phone OS did.

What Microsoft need are a lot of developers who are absolutely committed to making tablet-only versions of their applications. However they will not get this. Windows relies so heavily on legacy support and a classic mouse/keyboard interface, even with their foray into touchscreen. Anybody looking to develop a tablet version of their application will sooner make it for the iPad than for Windows 10S; or even Android instead of 10S. Again, I can't see a any argument to dispute that.

Microsoft also have a bad reputation for discontinuing stuff which doesn't take off. Apple make a lot of unpopular opinions but they stick with their guns and people eventually adapt. If Apple release a pencil for their iPad, then you'll damn well know it'll be there to stay, for better or for worse – so it's time to update your app. Conversely I can't begin to imagine people justifying development time and cost to make a Windows 10S application. Microsoft don't have the self-belief and a lot of these decisions ultimately are made by the shareholders. Not making money? Discontinue it.

To conclude: Windows 10 runs on touchscreen out of necessity, not out of choice. Microsoft would absolutely love to make a streamlined tablet OS that runs faster and still offers the same wealth of applications. But ultimately for the reasons stated above, and many more, it's not something I believe they can reasonably achieve without some aggressive and, dare I say, courageous tactics. Microsoft have painted themselves into a corner with the Surface Pro and I still maintain that in 5 years' time, we're really going to see the negative consequences of this. Time will tell.
 
Microsoft, of course, the iPad Pro couldn't rival the Surface Pro. The Surface Pro has a 1TBGB worth of storage capacity!

Source: https://twitter.com/JonyIveParody/status/867037979633758208

But didnt apple say it was a replacemtn? That it is for pro users and they demonstrate video editing and CAD in use yet the maximum capacity is 512 GB?? With 3D nand and other advances we should be getting 2 TB ipads and USB-C for data transer and video output
 
Catch up to what? Macs that Apple already sells? It's not like Surface invented drag and drop or windowing. If anything Apple had to wait for their chip technology to become good enough to support more advanced features.

To a "professional" tablet, whether truly "professional" or not. The iPad before the "Pro" was mostly advertised as a consumer device with some pro application. With the Pro, Apple tried to reposition the iPad as a work machine just as the Surface is marketed with an official keyboard and a pen -- not stylus.

BTW did you notice that Apple spent a minute during the packed WWDC keynote to mention the new speed bumped MBPs?
 
The Surface is a decent laptop but a crap tablet.

The ipad pro is a decent tablet but a crap laptop
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Nobody really has to anymore. You fanboys can say whatever you want but Apple hasn't done anything revolutionary in years. All they do now is play catch up with everyone else.

They are going to do something great with a car, but no windows which presents some major problems.
 
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If you look at Apple and the history they have with just an item like the iPod, the idea that they would have needed Microsoft or any other manufacturer to push or force them to design a larger sized iPad (Pro) is delusional. Apple's product plans for almost all their devices includes a range of sizes.

And just like with the iPod, they focused on selling their initial sized iPad to the point where they achieved a certain percentage of users in the market, then they offer the next size (up or down), capturing a new subset of the population, until they hit that point where they need to offer the next size to hit the numbers they expect in the overall market.

This isn't rocket science. Lots of products have similar small, medium, large and extra large sizes.
 
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How can Microsoft laughably compare the Surface to the iPad. One runs iOS, the other Windows. It's like comparing Apples to *coughs* lemons. They're not even in the same class and have completely different purposes.

Yet apple compare the new iPad Pros to laptops and say they can replace them for most users tasks

Sorry, I forget we are in the apple distortion field where everything Tim says is infalliable and everyone else is wrong

But please keep buying apple products as my pension does well out of it :)
 
All I know is that if I didn't have to use a projector as a 2nd screen as part of my job, I'd already have switched to an iPad. With iOS 11, I'm really trying to find a way to do my job without the split screen and switch over to a desktop and an iPad pro 12.9.

To that end.....if anybody knows how to do that I'd be much obliged :D
 
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I had a Toshiba convertible laptop with Windows XP Tablet PC Edition. Considering the year was 2004, I would not say it was crap. It was pretty awesome for 2004.

I'm not saying Windows XP Tablet PC Edition is better than the iPad. Windows XP Tablet PC Edition was way ahead of it's time.

Oh boy... but Windows XP Tablet Edition was a crock of utter crap, even at the time. First doesn't mean best; just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea that you should. Just like Windows 7 on those convertible laptops. We had the Toshiba Portege M700 at my last job. It was hopeless.

I can't see us finding any middle ground if you feel those OSs were anything other than unusable, even at the time. Sorry... I promise it's not from lack of trying on my part. :(
 
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the surface pro and the surface book in particular is a much better corporate device. there are people switching to them over laptops. an ipad pro is still a complimentary device. that's the truth. iOS is very limiting. great for an iPad but i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version.

"i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version."

You people just don't get it. It boggles my mind how I keep seeing this when Steve Jobs himself said that the tablet needs an OS designed specifically for it as a clean slate. He said this in the original iPad keynote 7 years ago. Mac OS wasn't designed for touch, so instead they created an OS that was friendly to your fingers input. This way, they can advance it over time and add more and more features whilst keeping it more touch and user friendly, just like we've been seeing with the new iPad Pros and iOS 11. They sell for a reason, and no, it's not just because it has an Apple logo, it's because the average consumer finds it more user friendly and less of a nightmare to use like the Surface. This is one of those things that Steve remains correct on and I hope Apple never puts Mac OS on a tablet. It's just asking for trouble, aka Windows 8.
 
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98: "windows is good now I swear!"
2000: "windows is good now I swear!"
ME: "ignore this one..."
XP: "Windows is good now I swear!"
Vista: "Windows is more secure now I swear!"
7: "We finally got it right I swear!"
8: "I don't really miss the start menu, It's good I swear!"
8.1: "They admitted their mistake, it's good now I swear!"
10: "It's good now I swear!"

Deja Vu.
 
98: "windows is good now I swear!"
2000: "windows is good now I swear!"
ME: "ignore this one..."
XP: "Windows is good now I swear!"
Vista: "Windows is more secure now I swear!"
7: "We finally got it right I swear!"
8: "I don't really miss the start menu, It's good I swear!"
8.1: "They admitted their mistake, it's good now I swear!"
10: "It's good now I swear!"

Deja Vu.

As compared to MacOS which is proclaimed as the best OS, since the last release every almost every single year without fail!
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"i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version."

You people just don't get it. It boggles my mind how I keep seeing this when Steve Jobs himself said that the tablet needs an OS designed specifically for it as a clean slate. He said this in the original iPad keynote 7 years ago. Mac OS wasn't designed for touch, so instead they created an OS that was friendly to your fingers input. This way, they can advance it over time and add more and more features whilst keeping it more touch and user friendly, just like we've been seeing with the new iPad Pros and iOS 11. They sell for a reason, and no, it's not just because it has an Apple logo, it's because the average consumer finds it more user friendly and less of a nightmare to use like the Surface. This is one of those things that Steve remains correct on and I hope Apple never puts Mac OS on a tablet. It's just asking for trouble aka windows 8.

What Steve thought back then is irrelevant, the guy is no longer here, times change as observed by Apples decision to add a keyboard to the tablet. Even the third party accesory companies realized people needed a keyboard before apple did, and on their own device.
 
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Apple wants people to think they can use an iPad as a computer, yet they fail to create an OS (or use macOS) on an iPad Pro that is worthy of being a computer OS. Just because Apple says the iPad can replace a laptop, doesn't make it so. Apple doesn't really have a clue what Windows does and how people in businesses and mobile offices do if they say that. Heck, an iPad cannot even access a Windows file server or system!

Attach a keyboard to an iPad and you have a slightly more convenient media consumption device, with easier email.

While Apple would have you think the entire world are photographers and artists, the reality is the opposite. A neat iPad owner poll would be to ask what people primarily use their iPad for. I'm guessing it's not word processing, spreadsheets, accounting, scientific research/modeling, 3D Design, etc. The list goes on.

People need to stop comparing the iPad with a real computer.
 
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How do you know they use iPad Pros? Link please
Way back when it was first released they all got some & tested them, can't find a more updated article sadly:

https://9to5mac.com/2015/09/29/pixar-ipad-pro-pencil/
http://www.cultofmac.com/390641/pixars-animation-teams-raves-about-ipad-pro-test-drive/

Though generally it's well known that Pixar and Disney are pretty darn close to Apple and Apple products anyway. They've even got a building named after Steve Jobs. Lot of history and a lot of collaboration over decades.

They all use Macs and iPads there, except for the big ol' server farm rendering jobs which'll need seas of Xeons and terabytes of RAM on a Linux distro. But with regards to the front end and the designs/rough editing/graphics/drawings, it's all on Apple stuff.
 
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To a "professional" tablet, whether truly "professional" or not. The iPad before the "Pro" was mostly advertised as a consumer device with some pro application. With the Pro, Apple tried to reposition the iPad as a work machine just as the Surface is marketed with an official keyboard and a pen -- not stylus.

BTW did you notice that Apple spent a minute during the packed WWDC keynote to mention the new speed bumped MBPs?

Where is a "True" professional tablet? Can I run 10 VMs on any tablet? Can I work on heavy 3D modeling? 4K or 8K footage?

This really needs to stop. Pro in a product name JUST MEANS better than the base model. THAT....IS......ALL.... Why are people thinking that JUST HAVING PRO in the name, means it will have the performance equivalent to 18-core CPU, 128GB of RAM, triple SLI of Quadro graphics cards, 10TBs of storage, and more? There ARE Pros that need that performance. People get SO WRAPPED up in stupid product names it is ridiculous!

PS4 to PS4 Pro. Can I run 10 VMs on PS4 Pro? Can I edit 4K or 8K footage? Can I do 3D modeling? BUT BUT BUT IT HAS PRO IN THE NAME!!!!

I seriously believe that EVERY SINGLE COMPANY should be banned from using the term Pro. The fact that SO MANY PEOPLE overreact to JUST A NAME is scary.

There can NEVER be a truly professional tablet or laptop according to some people. Not until we can have 18 cores, 128GB of RAM, triple dGPUs, 10TB of Storage. But when that happens, we will be on 32+ cores on the desktop and it will not be considered Pro then.
 
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