No, subjectively. If you don’t want the cruft and bloat of Windows, or the thicker tablet, or having to worry about malware, or a poor selection of tablet optimized apps, the iPad Pro is going to be a better choice. If you want to run Windows desktop apps on something and do drawing but don’t need lots of quality touch apps, get the Surface. The lower end Surface Pros that are priced in the same range as the iPad Pro are actually slower with a poorer screen. But keep being “objective”!
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Microsoft Executive Says iPad Pro Was Apple's Response to Surface
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No, subjectively. If you don’t want the cruft and bloat of Windows, or the thicker tablet, or having to worry about malware, or a poor selection of tablet optimized apps, the iPad Pro is going to be a better choice. If you want to run Windows desktop apps on something and do drawing but don’t need lots of quality touch apps, get the Surface. The lower end Surface Pros that are priced in the same range as the iPad Pro are actually slower with a poorer screen. But keep being “objective”!
Pro-troll nonsense. Firstly because the Surface itself is a copy of the iPad. Second, because iPad Pro didn't do what MS did and try to cram Windows into everywhere... iOS is a streamlined OS built from the ground up for touch. It's better because of this. iPad Pro is simply the latest iPad -- faster, slicker, and with more features, but doesn't not try to cram desktop OS applications into a touch tablet.
I am sure there are things an iPad can do that a Surface can't. Just choose one of the probably thousands of apps that the iPad has that the Microsoft store doesn't.
As a person who totally switched over to all things Apple for family and work in the 2006 time frame; recently having to use a Surface Book and Surface Pro's for a new job: The Surface line is better for business. They run full OSes and you can use a MOUSE (shock, gasp). I've certainly had a learning curve with Windows 10 and getting back into the Windows world, but Microsoft looks to be going in a good direction. An iPad is still my preferred device for consumption of content and personal use. I'll be buying the new 10.5 Pro soon.
Why can't a person use a mouse with iPad Pro's?? It can't be all that hard for Apple to code and BT keyboards have been supported for years. If you haven't checked out the MS Arc Mouse it is awesome! It folds flat which turns it off and travels super well. When I'm making new Presentation slides, spreadsheets, and many other things it is just so much easier to use a mouse than my finger or a pencil back and forth.
It is so interesting how things change. A year or two ago I never would have been saying nice things or thinking of Microsoft as (maybe the?) current leader in innovative computing.
Why can't a person use a mouse with iPad Pro's?? It can't be all that hard for Apple to code and BT keyboards have been supported for years. If you haven't checked out the MS Arc Mouse it is awesome! It folds flat which turns it off and travels super well. When I'm making new Presentation slides, spreadsheets, and many other things it is just so much easier to use a mouse than my finger or a pencil back and forth.
It is so interesting how things change. A year or two ago I never would have been saying nice things or thinking of Microsoft as (maybe the?) current leader in innovative computing.
I agree, I noticed apps stopped working on my 1st gen ipad and I had to buy a new one.
Oh boy... but Windows XP Tablet Edition was a crock of utter crap, even at the time. First doesn't mean best; just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea that you should. Just like Windows 7 on those convertible laptops. We had the Toshiba Portege M700 at my last job. It was hopeless.
I can't see us finding any middle ground if you feel those OSs were anything other than unusable, even at the time. Sorry... I promise it's not from lack of trying on my part.
Let me ask you this. What was a better tablet with similar capabilities in 2004?
In 2004, it was the best. It had huge UI issues, no doubt; but there was literally no better touchscreen computer in 2004.
To say it was "unsuable" is just plain wrong. I am proof it was very much usable. I used that Toshiba M200 with Windows XP Tablet PC Edition for my first 2 years of college. I took all my notes on it (handwritten searchable notes was absolutely ground-breaking then!). I gamed on it (can the iPad run HL2 today?). I wrote my papers and lab reports on it. I browsed the internet, listening to music (winamp!), and watched movies on it. I edited photos on it. It did pretty much everything an iPad does today, but 13 years ago.
I would have probably kept using it longer, but the battery wasn't good after two years and I needed something with more horsepower to run Solidworks at the time.
By the way, the M700 you mentioned came out way later (~2008) and I agree it was bad. It was in the bloatware Windows says. I had switched to Mac by then. By 2008, there were better options.
The only problem with the Surface is that it runs Windows. I'd replace my MacBook Pro in a second if the Surface could natively run Mac OS.
iPad needs the ability to use a mouse and be able to use it with large displays. Now that iOS has a Files app, Apple could make the iPad be a MacBook replacement, but not yet... Apple loves making 30% from app sales. There's no way they will make a Mac OS device with a touch screen.
iPad needs the ability to use a mouse and be able to use it with large displays. Now that iOS has a Files app, Apple could make the iPad be a MacBook replacement, but not yet... Apple loves making 30% from app sales. There's no way they will make a Mac OS device with a touch screen.
Actually he is right. The first generation of Surface and Surface Pro was a joke, but Microsoft has been constantly improving this product line, at a much much faster rate than Apple does with its iPad product line. As a result, this year, Surface Pro actually surpassed iPad Pro in most of the fronts.
If Microsoft claimed the same thing two months ago, most people will just laugh at them. But, after this year's new release, I have to agree with him.
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Being the best of a bad bunch in a terribly poor product category doesn't mean the product itself is, or ever was, good.
this si the problem though. with the Surface lineup, you're not stuck using only the surface store. If someone in the last couple decades wrote a windows program, you can run it.
with the iPad, this openness of access isn't there. if the App Store doesn't have that program. You're S-O-L. there's nothing you can do to make your iPad use that program or it's functionality.
With the Surface Lineup running full windows. All you have to do is find one of millions of non-windows store programs, install and use. yes, even in tablet mode.
this is why a lot of people claim that the iPad Pro's are too limiting. It's less to do about the hardware, but more to do with what is actually available. While yes, the iPad tends to have the better touch based software that is curated through the store, the App store does not compete with the tremendously large library of software that is available for windows.
if you're limiting yourself to Windows Store only, than you're setting an artificial roadblock to the comparison, that purposely eliminates millions of programs that are available for running on a Surface Pro device.
For example: If I wanted to run lightroom for photo editing, I either can run a scaled down version on my iPad, or the full blown full featured desktop version (not in the Windows Store) on my Surface pro .
And that is why everyone has a choice of the product/os they want to use. I prefer Apple’s ecosystem, apps, and support. I am in no way limited with what I need a computer for. It’s all preference, there is no right or wrong. You use the best tool possible to complete the task. For some, it’s a surface. For more people, it’s an iPad. It is what it is.
you realise that many people say the same thing about the current "tablet only" product lineups, including the iPad's right? As evidenced by the entire tablet market decline, including iPads
(I have nothing personally against iPad, I own one and do use it daily).
but the actual "tablet only" product category can also be seen as a pretty weak category as it's a generally narrow purpose device.
Don't aim to high on Apple's "high standards," you might miss the 5400 RPM hard drives on some of the iMacs, the outdated and over priced Mac Pro and Mac mini...
I'm pretty sure that if Apple wanted to build an iPad that was considered a computer they would tweet about.
I'm not trying to say that one is better than the other. just that your comment didn't have the evidence I think you intended.
The same rule applies here as for any computer purchasing
The right tool for the right job.
the iPad and iPad pro lineup can very well be the right tool for many cases. but it's not the be all end all device that does everything perfectly.
The Surface Pro lineup can very well be the right tool for many cases, but it too is not the be all, end all device that does everything perfectly.
I'm just amused by the very bi-partisan thinking that most people in this thread have had. in their mindsets its all about #1. and whoever is #1 in their mind is the best and everything else sucks.
I constantly make this analogy whenever this sort of thread comes up.
it's like comparing two school children. one of the children gets a 96 on an exam, the next student gets a 95 on the exam. Both students are A+ students. Both are fantastically smart. and calling one "crap" over the other doesn't indicate any intelligence of the person making the claim.
Yeah agreed. But I was mainly taking issue with a different point from oneMad. Namely to say a product was the best of a bad bunch, therefore it was a good product, is a leap of logic.
I'm sure the Virtual Boy was the best consumer product at the time for 3D/virtual gaming. However that doesn't mean it was worth using or buying, even at the time.
For lots that's not a problem. IMO Windows 10 is great alternative to Mac, especial when some don't like where Apple has gone.
it's a good product for the time. The hard thing about tech is keeping it relative. Yuo cannot compare devices released in 2017 to 2004. Time and technological advances are so dramatic.
you can only generally compare devices released within the same time period.
in 2004, there was no single better tablet experience than the Windows XP tablet computers. were they as good as the iPad today or even in 2010? Heck no. But you cannot compare today's tech to 2004. it's just asanine and unreasonable.
it's like comparing the 2017 iPhone 7 to the 2007 iPhone and calling the 2007 a crappy device, despite in 2007, the iPhone being one of the leaders and best devices you could buy.
nobody in their right mind today says the original iPhone sucked because the phone market in 2007 sucked. That's just applying today's bias' against the past, which is not an intelligent standpoint to take
Again I absolutely agree with what you're saying about context but I'm not applying today's bias to the past. I remember those products at the time and I used those products at the time. I thought they were junk then and I still think they were junk.
Evidently most of the consumer market agreed, as none of them sold particularly well.
I was going to write some snarky anti-MS response to Gavin's "We don't follow" BS, but then thought: Why bother? Redmond is always going to be convinced they have a superior product because 90% of the marketplace buys based on price alone.
I remember the sign that hung in every Baskin-Robbins store in the 1960s: People who consider price alone are MS's lawful prey. Personally, I think I've added about six years to my life expectancy because I've assiduously avoided Windows since 1996.
I remember the sign that hung in every Baskin-Robbins store in the 1960s: People who consider price alone are MS's lawful prey. Personally, I think I've added about six years to my life expectancy because I've assiduously avoided Windows since 1996.
they were just too expensive and niche. For the time, they were tremendously useful. they just generally commanded few hundred, to several thousand premium. was also a day when "portable computing" was for geeks and executives only. Day to day users didn't have access to such technology.
They didn't suck. They worked very well, they were the best of the market's availability at the time. The market just needed a few more years of technological advancement to be able to break through to the consumer market, which is what computers, Pre-2000's never really had impact in.
the market didn't think they were "junk" just overly niche.
as for your own personal experiences, That's up to you to decide. But my use case of them back in the early 00's was not that of "Junk", just too expensive and too niche.
I wan't so bad to agree with you. I want stick your post in fanboy faces and yell "read this". Only issue is, they arn't close enough to be a choice. If you want to have a full onenote experience you need the Surface. If you want true sync with an iPhone you need an iPad. If you want worry free app availablity you need a surface. If you want ease of mind for getting new safe software go iPad. If you want quality demo software go Surface. If you want the same app on your computer as you do your phone, go iPad. If you want access to beta software go Surface. If you want stylus free touch go iPad. If you want to consume lots of PDFs without having to zoom in and out go Surface.
Every time you add something you want to do you increase the chances whatever you pick will not work for you. I don't think they are at the point where I can just say X is the best for for me. I can say X is better for me, but not best. Best suggests that one brand solve most problems. I feel they are spit 50-50 right now.
Windows 10 may not be as good as iOS 10 in some of the fronts, but it at least is a full OS. As a result, Surface Pro can be used to full replace laptops for a lot more users than iPad Pro can.
Taking the OS out of the equation, the latest Surface Pro is truly better than the latest iPad Pro in most areas.
I again must disagree with you. They were tremendously useless, even for the time. The touch support on the OS was terrible which meant that you couldn't use Windows with the touchscreen. You really couldn't, I promise you. The odd thing it could do was drag around a window with the extremely laggy and poorly calibrated touchscreen.
Yes it was for geeks and executives, because they were the only ones who could imagine sinking such money into something that was essentially a gimmick. They had no practical purpose. Price wasn't the object because if a product's good, it'll sell. That's what it was: a gimmick. Look, I can touch the screen. Once that wore off, there was no purpose to it. Honestly I'm not misremembering this.
If we're talking about retroactively applying bias to technology in 2017, I must make the point you seem just as guilty of this with what I can only describe as a nostalgic argument. However I will give you the benefit of the doubt and do my best to look up some reviews of the time.
I can only personally assure you that I thought they were rubbish at the time once I came to use them and the "cool factor" wore off; and so did everybody else that I knew who tried to use one once they got beyond the gimmick. However currently it's two against one so I must have been doing something wrong.